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Man, I hope habitat districts get buffed at some point.The research district is way outperformed by upgraded research buildings, and the energy district is actually worse than the normal energy district. A related topic-- what ascension perks are people taking as machine empires?
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Mar 22, 2019 17:07
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ZypherIM posted:Solution: don't research disruptors This is always the correct call unless you're diving head first into a pure disruptor strategy. The main reason you don't want to research them if you don't ever plan on using them is that your starbases/bastions will end up with them, and there is no in-game way of editing that design.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:45
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scaterry posted:Man, I hope habitat districts get buffed at some point.The research district is way outperformed by upgraded research buildings, and the energy district is actually worse than the normal energy district. Research districts aren't a replacement for research buildings, they're something you can build in addition to them. Energy districts produce the same number of jobs as a normal energy district as far as I can tell, why are they worse (outside of increased cost to run a hab versus a planet)? Right now I'd say that habs feel a lot more useful to gestalts, because they can get a lot of raw production bonus to their planets while lacking the ability to build arcologies. ME ascension perks: Machine worlds are pretty amazing. Not only do you get a nice production bonus, being completely unlinked from district restrictions lets you really specialize planets to an insane degree. Synthetic age is solid. Reduced robo-modding cost is very good, and 2 trait points is great considering the higher quality of robot traits in general. Hopefully they allow better robot constructive stuff in the future to allow for specialized types. Nihilistic aquisition isn't too great (though still denying your opponents pops on planets you can't take is a big benefit), and shared destiny is pretty terrible since you won't be integrating vassals really. Apart from those, things that are good in general are still good. If you want to do megastructures you'll want to take the same options as before. Like I mentioned earlier, I think habs are quite strong for gestalts after you get machine worlds (think orbital foundries and stuff).
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Mar 22, 2019 17:49
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scaterry posted:A related topic-- what ascension perks are people taking as machine empires? Mastery of Nature for the increased size, the +50% Edict length one, the robo-modding one, Machine Worlds, and once I get megastructures the two related to that.
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Mar 22, 2019 18:08
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Is there a way to stop manufacturing new pops as an emobot empire?
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Mar 22, 2019 18:16
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There are planetary decisions that will stop robot assembly.
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Mar 22, 2019 18:21
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I just turn off the assembler jobs
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Mar 22, 2019 18:31
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ZypherIM posted:Research districts aren't a replacement for research buildings, they're something you can build in addition to them. Energy districts produce the same number of jobs as a normal energy district as far as I can tell, why are they worse (outside of increased cost to run a hab versus a planet)? Right now I'd say that habs feel a lot more useful to gestalts, because they can get a lot of raw production bonus to their planets while lacking the ability to build arcologies. Considering arcologies and habitats are at the same point in the tech tree (tier 3 engineering, year 2250ish), it's pretty clear habitats could use a buff, yeah? Like you could have a fully outfitted habitat (12 calculator jobs) or you could fully upgrade two research buildings (also 12 calculator jobs) ZypherIM posted:ME ascension perks: Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Mastery of Nature for the increased size, the +50% Edict length one, the robo-modding one, Machine Worlds, and once I get megastructures the two related to that. Thanks. Synthetic Age and Machine Worlds compete for the third perk slot, which is unfortunate. IMO, synthetic age should be shifted to the second perk slot, since its direct analog (Engineered Evolution) can be taken in that slot. Then machine empires could go 1st generic perk -> synthetic age -> machine worlds -> whatever, as opposed to 1st generic perk -> 2nd generic perk -> machine worlds/synthetic age -> synthetic age/machine worlds which forces taking two generic perks.
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Mar 22, 2019 19:36
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binge crotching posted:This is always the correct call unless you're diving head first into a pure disruptor strategy. The main reason you don't want to research them if you don't ever plan on using them is that your starbases/bastions will end up with them, and there is no in-game way of editing that design.  Give me a starbase and army designer or give me death.
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Mar 22, 2019 19:37
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scaterry posted:Considering arcologies and habitats are at the same point in the tech tree (tier 3 engineering, year 2250ish), it's pretty clear habitats could use a buff, yeah? The problem I have with habs is I just never have the influence to build the goddamn things...
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Mar 22, 2019 19:49
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I use Habs as fortress worlds. Nice bump to research and naval cap and the fortresses will produce your housing. Found a glitch in the beta branch. When you modify an enslaved pop it automatically switches back to chattel slavery until you click that species in the species screen. Then it will switch back to what you had. Freaked me out cause all my planets went from doing good to massive unemployment!
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Mar 22, 2019 20:04
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:
determined exterminators hate organics, not all xenos. i was doing a gimmick as a race of isolationist rogue science bots but one of my neighbors was skynet and so i changed plans and we purged the galaxy together. afaik you can't purge other robots so it would be nice to have that option scaterry posted:Considering arcologies and habitats are at the same point in the tech tree (tier 3 engineering, year 2250ish), it's pretty clear habitats could use a buff, yeah? its a bit nonintuitive but habs suck for science generation. instead think of them as little sky factories, especially when you put chemical plants in them or whatever and each one has its own pair of t2 foundries for which the necessary strategics are generated on site. you'd think they'd be great for science but it's better to use them to take up the industrial burden so you can turn your planets into university worlds e: and as zig-zag says above, you can also park upgraded fortresses there so you can get 16-32 fleet cap per hab
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Mar 22, 2019 20:10
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On habs vs ecumenopoli, honestly I think that ecumenopoli should be some kind of a tech or one-per-empire pseudo-megastructure. They're just so good and come so much earlier than stuff like ringworlds they're a no-brainer and make taking other Ascension perks unproductive. Either that, or take out the "mega-engineering" requirement for Galactic Wonders, since by the time you research that, and then actually build the stuff, the game is mostly over.
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Mar 22, 2019 21:11
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LogisticEarth posted:On habs vs ecumenopoli, honestly I think that ecumenopoli should be some kind of a tech or one-per-empire pseudo-megastructure. They're just so good and come so much earlier than stuff like ringworlds they're a no-brainer and make taking other Ascension perks unproductive. I'm kind of amazed they haven't been nerfed yet. You could take away the global resource bonus, the increased growth rate, and the housing on all non-arcology districts and they'd STILL be brokenly good.
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Mar 22, 2019 21:20
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Why not make all the buffs as good as ecumenopolis instead of the standard Paradox +5% stuff it's really confuses me that anytime there's an impactful feature people genuinely ask that it be reduced to parity with everything else so that we can get back to the bland equilibrium  instead of "hey, let's have impactful things that you can play with each run"  Imagine galactic wonders that didn't suck and ethos specific things as powerful as ecumenopoli and machine worlds that were just as good and habitats that weren't crap nope nerf it all PLANET KILLING MEGAWEAPONS but you can only fire them every 6 months (down from 3 years, lol), because it would be fun otherwise
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Mar 22, 2019 21:55
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Why not make all the buffs as good as ecumenopolis instead of the standard Paradox +5% stuff In all seriousness: this. So much this. Arcologies don't feel broken, they feel great. Let everything else feel great! I want megastructures to be available early, and be awesome. Why the hell can't I encase my star in metal and gently caress up my neighbor's favorite constellation as soon as I have the resources to do it? If I want build the biggest goddamned piece of art in the history of ever, and I want to beeline for that over all else, let me. I want genetic ascension to be available early, and be awesome. Why the hell can't I turn my population into Supermen who can crush rocks with their bare hands and live on any world the moment I have the resources and technology to do it? If I want to beeline for that poo poo over all else, let me. I want to breach the shroud early and get awesome poo poo for doing it. Why the hell can't I sell my entire population's souls to the god of murderfucking the moment we realize that picking up rocks with our hands is for people who don't worship the god of murderfucking? If I want to worship the god of murderfucking the day we first enter the warp, let me. I want all this stuff to be available starting in the mid game, and all of it should be awesome. Move all of those boring-rear end Ascension Perks with plus-percent this and minor-buff that to the tech tree, and fill the Perks list with totally awesome poo poo instead.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:09
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I agree with the other posters here on the ecumenopoli. think its more that it comes into the game too early that makes it unbalanced, like some others have said. If it comes around the same time as the other megastructures then it wouldn't seem as unbalanced in my eyes. Fen Habbanis is pretty much a "you win" find in the game if its found early enough in your system.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:18
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Shugojin posted:I mean they're authoritarian militarist so uhh I've got bad news for them... they're getting nerve-stapled and sent to the ConfusedUs posted:In all seriousness: this. So much this. Arcologies don't feel broken, they feel great. Let everything else feel great! And why the hell can't I be genetically engineered psychic humans anyway? I get that you can't be a genetically engineered synth, but honestly that is the only one of the three paths that should be exclusive with the others.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:24
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Why not make all the buffs as good as ecumenopolis instead of the standard Paradox +5% stuff Yeah everyone says this whenever nerfs are discussed but it's a terrible idea if you actually think about it for a second. Games, especially ones as complex as Stellaris, have a TON of moving parts. Adjusting any one of them can have significant and unforseen consequences for the others. So when you have a single, very obvious outlier as in this case, it's better to go after that than potentially ruin the balance even further by adjusting literally the entire rest of the game around it. I know no one likes nerfs but the alternative is having the game devolve into a sprawling, unbalanced mess very quickly.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:31
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ConfusedUs posted:I want to breach the shroud early and get awesome poo poo for doing it. Why the hell can't I sell my entire population's souls to the god of murderfucking the moment we realize that picking up rocks with our hands is for people who don't worship the god of murderfucking? If I want to worship the god of murderfucking the day we first enter the warp, let me. Yeah the shroud in particular should be available earlier. Getting a psionic avatar is such a let down, because it should be a cool bonus to unleash on your neighbours, but as it is it'll probably take so long to get it that it'll easily fold in the face of the average fleet.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:34
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Jabarto posted:Yeah everyone says this whenever nerfs are discussed but it's a terrible idea if you actually think about it for a second. No, putting in a bunch of features in a game that has a pretty clear time progression due to tech gating and stuff and making it so they only enter gameplay when the campaign is mostly decided is, in fact, boring. And yeah it's a great way of balancing if you're terrified of players and emergent combinations. You just put in stuff in the game, and you go "What if players actually USE this or find positive spirals that let them break things open? Should we do that? Nah instead we'll let them roleplay their little toys but not meaningfully affect anything in the campaign." In some ways what struck me the most about ST: New Horizons is that they give you techs and big decisions to play with, tech feels impactful, ships feel impactful. Mutually exclusive design ethos that fundamentally change your ships. Big tech breakthroughs and huge events that impact your empire. It's such a clear antithesis to the Paradox ethos. Having everything be pre emptively nerfed and basically cosmetic is not the only way to balance things, it's just the way that Stellaris has been balanced so far. I'd love to see them reconsider and make it so that these ethos specific choices are serious and impactful, and that techs are as well. It would be badass to see some exterminators start decimating half the galaxy blowing up planets so that you have to wonder "wait a minute do I need to stop these guys from razing the galaxy or can I just build 5 dyson spheres and ignore them" but none of that is a thing in Stellaris, a cool toolbox full of cool future stuff that can't actually be used due to cooldowns and +5%. Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 22:38
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I feel dirty saying this but I agree with ham sandwiches
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Mar 22, 2019 22:42
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Yeah, this game needs more powerful and flavorful things. It's fine to nerf stuff if the baseline is interesting, but not if the baseline is bland.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:43
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Dyson Spheres definitely need to either give way more energy or cost way less alloys. Like, reasonably speaking building an actual goddamn Dyson Sphere would not give you +whatever energy, it'd replace your energy value with a goddamn infinity symbol.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:48
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Splicer posted:I feel dirty saying this but I agree with ham sandwiches same, the problem is Megastructures come far too late to really interact with them like you want to, not with Ecumenopolises and their variants like I get why there are hoops with Megastructures, but having one of the hoops be an ascension perk is just unnecessary when combined with the tech rarity and absolutely massive resource cost
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Mar 22, 2019 22:51
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I feel like there are two correlated arguments going on here, one about ecumenopolises specifically and one about Paradox putting too many gates on fun stuff. I do agree with the latter, it's been an issue for a long time (hello EU4 client states!), but that's not the issue that ecumenopolises have. The problem with those is that they completely obviate huge chunks of the game. Building slots are the most limited and precious resource in the game, and you need to think carefully about what you use them for...until you get an ecumenopolis and all the high value jobs you could for free. Rare resources are something you need to plan around, either trading or synthesizing them to meet your upkeep needs...until you get an ecumenopolis and all the high value jobs you could want for free. Planetary development is a balancing act between exploiting raw resources, planetary modifiers, and manufacturing needs...until you get an ecumenopolis or three and every other planet in the galaxy is just a food/mining outpost. Your third ascension perk should be something you have to actually think about and weigh the benefits of, but it isn't, because Arcology Project exists. Habitats should be good, but they aren't, because Arcology Project exists. Ecumenopolises don't feel "good" or "fun", they feel like a cheat code. Nothing in a game should have that kind of power and influence over the mechanics.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:55
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I like haveing megastructures late, it extends the peaceful isolationist game by a lot and i definately have use for them. This last game I have been mostly at peace and takeing in refugees since everyone else is an rear end in a top hat. The game have been "Oh poo poo my worlds are filling up -> Oh poo poo my habitats are not keeping up -> Ringworld and ecumenapolis solving it" and getting them easier or earlier would kinda destroy the effort I had to actively make to get them. When I play aggressive games I have other ways to increase production and living space. Edit: Basically megastructures are a way for non-aggressive empires to grow internally, but they need to focus on getting them. Aggressive empires don't need them since they can just take everyones poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:56
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I wouldn't be opposed to buffing things like habitats and making megastructures available earlier, but I agree ecumenopolii are just so good that it's not practical to boost everything else instead of nerfing them. Maybe buff the alternatives and nerf them and meet halfway, but they're so good that they warp the game, as others have pointed out.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:01
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The thing about Ecumenopolises is that the Gestalt Consciousnesses don't get access to them and they're not just able to keep up with the civics that do get them but can easily surpass them without even trying. Sure it bulldozes some of the planetary management aspect of the game but until Paradox addresses it planetary management is easily the least fun and most tedious part of the game. Quite frankly I'm grateful for the QoL benefits that Ecumenopolises provide.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:01
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Noir89 posted:Edit: Basically megastructures are a way for non-aggressive empires to grow internally, but they need to focus on getting them. Aggressive empires don't need them since they can just take everyones poo poo. It doesn't matter how hard you focus on getting them, you're getting them late game like everyone else. It'd be much more interesting if you could invest early on to get them earlier.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:05
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I'd like hive minds to be a dangerous threat because [reasons], and yet they wouldn't get ecumenopolis which are super turbo awesome, so they are dangerous for other reasons. I'd like psionic empires to be a dangerous threat because [reasons] and so if your neighbor empire is contacting the shroud and making deals with interdimensional horrors, you might suddenly have problems dealing with them. It would be great if this was unbalanced as poo poo. I'd like builder empires that spam megastructures and star fortresses to be a dangerous threat because [reasons] I'd like machine empires to be a dangerous threat because [reasons] There should be ways to conquer/invade and repurpose planets almost instantly for really warlike races. I would like to see some empires be able to do stuff that bypasses fleet cap if they have the resources to build and maintain those ships. I'd like to see some race / ethos combos be able to build ultra mega star fortresses that are 5x as strong as regular ones but lock you out of other stuff. And so basically if every major playstyle had some "game busting" feature that completely seems unbalanced, and yet, other combos don't get, then yeah that seems like it would be pretty fun. It's cool seeing this discussion btw 
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Mar 22, 2019 23:07
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Worth noting that Dominions goes in for the "lol, balance" approach, partly because it's too complex to actually balance and manages to be awesome.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:39
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Splicer posted:I feel dirty saying this but I agree with ham sandwiches
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Mar 23, 2019 00:35
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Is anyone else experiencing a bug in the latest version where all the default species names and homeworlds have been replaced with '???????' e: also, every single default empire's ethics have been changed to Xenophile/Fanatic Egalitarian Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Mar 23, 2019 |
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Mar 23, 2019 01:15
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Aethernet posted:Worth noting that Dominions goes in for the "lol, balance" approach, partly because it's too complex to actually balance and manages to be awesome. Yeah, but Dominions is a multiplayer-only game with a singleplayer game stapled on for the hell of it. The AI in no way can even approach thinking about being able to handle the complexity of the game.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:30
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I was a little shocked at how bad habitats were in my last couple of games. I remember them being good enough to almost justify abandoning planets for altogether like a year ago, and now I just kind of don't want to take voidborne at all and try to get to megastructures some other way. I'd like to see another tier of habitats between the current ones and ringworlds. Like a culture orbital I guess. Also I'd like to see ringworlds expandable to 8 segments cuz you know... they're loving mindbendingly gigantic. Like maybe you can build a ringworld with galactic wonders, but you can't build past 4 segments without master builders. Eccumenopoli though... getting Fen Habanis early, and also being able to spam hive worlds is a powerful combo
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Mar 23, 2019 01:55
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Ecumenopolises definitely need to be limited in some way. Preferably in a way that favors taller empires. I think they've kind of fundamentally missed the mark on everything else that's special. Hive and Machine Worlds are basically Gaia-equivalents that you can't find naturally. Fine, whatever. Habs are too gimped and expensive to make an impact early on and, oh yeah, ecumenopolises exist and become available at basically the same time. And megastructures? They may as well not exist for all the impact they have. Building one rarely serves any purpose except as a victory lap, and only the ring world really feels anything like special.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:32
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I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the one that makes minerals from a black hole since in the latest update mineral demand consistently goes up as you expand and build better poo poo
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Mar 23, 2019 02:45
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Zurai posted:Yeah, but Dominions is a multiplayer-only game with a singleplayer game stapled on for the hell of it. The AI in no way can even approach thinking about being able to handle the complexity of the game. Much like stellaris, then.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:59
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:And megastructures? They may as well not exist for all the impact they have. Building one rarely serves any purpose except as a victory lap, and only the ring world really feels anything like special. I really love gateways but yeah they are too late.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:37
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