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22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Thanks :)

First choice I have a final 3-hour-long interview (with 4 different people) on Monday, I'll let them know I have the offer and they want to move fast anyway. My goal is to start working on the 1st so I can get this poo poo done and start making money again.

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Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

i hosted a great goon meet and all i got was this lousy avatar
Grimey Drawer

uhhhhahhhhohahhh posted:

The reason I got into networks was because I didn't want to have to do poo poo calls and talk to users, and I noticed our network engineer barely did any. It back fired after I got hired for the internal junior position and a few months later the senior engineer moved away, I had basically no experience except a useless Network+ cert. They tried and failed to hire a replacement. The whole time I was doing the calls for a 4500+ user organisation and fixing poo poo that hadn't been working right for years. After a year and a half of that they gave up trying to recruit a senior, and eventually offered it to me (it's amazing how quickly you can learn when you're absolutely hosed and have nobody to help you). Then eventually they recruited me a junior who does all the calls :getin:. I only do ones he can't finish or when he's on annual leave. I got an extra boost when they hired an IT Project Manager/Admin, and now he handles all the bullshit admin work on network projects. I do design, config, and talking to third party suppliers when necessary, but as infrequently as possible. I also argued a lot that sending the senior or only network engineer to do certain poo poo was horribly inefficient, when it could easily be done by our on-site engineers from a written guide or over the phone.

There are absolutely IT jobs (engineers and sysadmins) where your end-user interaction is minimal, and you don't have to lead anyone. Just be aware that if you turn down a promotion, you shouldn't expect to ever get offered another one (even if your reasons are very good, like "I really don't think I'd be good at this job") while working for the same organization. Sucks, yo.

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011

Unfortunately I transcended regular user interaction into network engineering, and forgot to stop before I hit consulting where now its only 10% user interaction but that interaction is all C-Levels and everything must be explained in pie graphs and scatter plots and gantt charts.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





I am going to use my impending job transition to get away from anything user facing. I've been doing what I'm doing in one way or another for way too long and I badly need a change.

Daylen Drazzi
Mar 10, 2007

Why do I root for Notre Dame? Because I like pain, and disappointment, and anguish. Notre Dame Football has destroyed more dreams than the Irish Potato Famine, and that is the kind of suffering I can get behind.
Hey guys, long time no post (you probably enjoyed it, so gently caress you).

Nearing the home stretch on the project I've been working on for a year - in fact, I just celebrated my 1-yr anniversary with the company a little over 2 weeks ago, and I started working on the project pretty much on Day One. I've learned so much working on it, and it's actually been fun as hell. Big change from my previous positions. Still waiting on my TS w/SCI - pretty sure that still 9-12 months away as well. Got a new supervisor a few weeks ago (my 3rd), and he's pretty cool. Knows his stuff and has no issue with stepping up to help. One of our team members last day was today, and another team member is leaving next Friday. Leaves us with five folks doing the work of eight. And both the members leaving were 100% assigned to a rather huge project.

I have this fear that my rear end is about to get punted to the project they left, and in the words of one person "It's a poo poo storm, with no documentation. Have fun getting up to speed." Fortunately next week is jam-packed with interviews for my boss and our Sr Engineer, and they've got a few good candidates lined up, and since they don't hate me I may get a reprieve since I've already got so drat many irons in the fire that dropping them is not an option.

Next week should be fun.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.
Dear Customer,

When we said that we were doing maintenance on your DirectConnect links and we said it would be non-impacting, we meant it.

We told you we were dropping one of your endpoints to do maintenance (at which point all of your traffic will swing to your other, active, link), bring up the link, take down your second link (which will swing your traffic to your first link) and bring it back up, at which point your traffic will go back to load balancing across both of them, per your own description of your environment.

When you discover, when we took down your first link, that a routing fuckup was asynchronously sending traffic out on one and in on the other and not sending in and out across both like you thought and therefore traffic was broken during our outage, do not come screaming at us with guns blazing.

Especially don’t have your VP of Tech or whatever throw me under the bus on a conference call.

Especially because I have the email where I clearly outline your architecture as you explained it to us and have the VPs acknowledgement that my understanding was correct. That I helpfully sent to everyone on the call while we were on the call.


Your fuckup is on you.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

DropsySufferer posted:

I have done desktop support for over two years. I've learned that while I can fake it with people, the interactions tire me and the job leaves me exhausted during the week when I come home. At this point I'm strongly considering just becoming a programmer. It will set my pay back at first but at least I'll be happier not trying to be something I'm not all day. I'm unsure though because I'm wondering what life is like for a network engineer or anyone on the admin level. I'd rather not completely change course on my career. I have a CCNA and degree.

What's pushing this for me is management wants me to step up and lead. I'm currently (recently revealed to me this week) now going to be effectively a goddamn IT manager which is not any part of my plan. I am not a leader, it will not happen; I don't have it in me. I will say so today. I'm suddenly feeling like I'm in the wrong field. But maybe I just need to work harder to get into a network engineer role and out of any level of helpdesk ASAP? I have no desire for management I've learned that clearly this past few weeks.

As a network engineer or Network admin. Are there fewer client interactions? Fewer people and internal politics I'd have to deal with? I like working with a team but I'm not a salesperson and wish to avoid company politics if I can. Really want to get away from that! That's been my greatest goal. To get away from the customer care and politics and just work on technology. :sigh:

There's a bunch to unpack here.

Yes, you can find plenty of roles that are mostly heads-down technical work where you don't have to be "on" all day supporting users. This is what most systems or network engineer positions are at medium to large companies. Desktop support is distinct from these teams, on purpose. I totally get where you're coming from, because I went through the same thing. I did a few years of desktop support and while I could do the work and do it well, I'm an introvert when it comes down to it and found it exhausting. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure you can find some job postings that don't involve end user support at all. Just make sure it's not an MSP or something where you're an "admin" working in a customer-facing consulting role. I got into operational systems and network roles building and running infrastructure at software companies, and have been much happier.

That said, no one is getting paid to build poo poo just for the hell of it. All the work is still being done in support of people. Maybe you have a manager who shields you from this, and just tells you "do this stuff by X date" and you go off and do your thing. But at some point, if you want raises and promotions, you're going to have to get back into the people aspect of things. That doesn't have to mean management if your company has a decent career ladder. But it does mean pulling your head up to talk to people. If you land that sweet engineering job and fully lean into it by coding with your headphones on 8 hours a day, never building relationships with your boss, teammates, and other coworkers... you're going to stay in that position and pay band forever, and miss out on chances to work on the best projects. Maybe you're cool with that, but be aware of it.

TLDR yes there are many thousands of jobs out there that are in IT but aren't "client interactions". Go find them, it sounds like they'll make you happier. Once you get out of small business, you can be on an Individual Contributor technical track for a long time and never touch management, though you'll eventually need to do some team lead type work to advance. And they'll pay a lot better than helldesk. Just don't expect to TOTALLY get away from people and soft skills if you really want to grow and succeed in the long term.

Agrikk posted:

Dear Customer,

Your fuckup is on you.

lmao this was a timely post

Daylen Drazzi posted:

Hey guys, long time no post (you probably enjoyed it, so gently caress you).

I always enjoy hearing from you again :unsmith:

Docjowles fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 23, 2019

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Agrikk posted:

Dear Customer,

When we said that we were doing maintenance on your DirectConnect links and we said it would be non-impacting, we meant it.

What the gently caress is DirectConnect exactly? I feel like I could replace it with a basic SFTP Server along with a bash cron job - OR - some simple web app.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

I think you are confusing it with one of the 4000 other AWS services, heh. It’s a physical cable and BGP session between your router and Amazon.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


I’m thinking of IMB Direct:Connect

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality

Docjowles posted:

There's a bunch to unpack here.

Yes, you can find plenty of roles that are mostly heads-down technical work where you don't have to be "on" all day supporting users. This is what most systems or network engineer positions are at medium to large companies. Desktop support is distinct from these teams, on purpose. I totally get where you're coming from, because I went through the same thing. I did a few years of desktop support and while I could do the work and do it well, I'm an introvert when it comes down to it and found it exhausting. Unless you're in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure you can find some job postings that don't involve end user support at all. Just make sure it's not an MSP or something where you're an "admin" working in a customer-facing consulting role. I got into operational systems and network roles building and running infrastructure at software companies, and have been much happier.

That said, no one is getting paid to build poo poo just for the hell of it. All the work is still being done in support of people. Maybe you have a manager who shields you from this, and just tells you "do this stuff by X date" and you go off and do your thing. But at some point, if you want raises and promotions, you're going to have to get back into the people aspect of things. That doesn't have to mean management if your company has a decent career ladder. But it does mean pulling your head up to talk to people. If you land that sweet engineering job and fully lean into it by coding with your headphones on 8 hours a day, never building relationships with your boss, teammates, and other coworkers... you're going to stay in that position and pay band forever, and miss out on chances to work on the best projects. Maybe you're cool with that, but be aware of it.

TLDR yes there are many thousands of jobs out there that are in IT but aren't "client interactions". Go find them, it sounds like they'll make you happier. Once you get out of small business, you can be on an Individual Contributor technical track for a long time and never touch management, though you'll eventually need to do some team lead type work to advance. And they'll pay a lot better than helldesk. Just don't expect to TOTALLY get away from people and soft skills if you really want to grow and succeed in the long term.

My dream isn't to be some kind of tech goon hermit I don't mind working with people but I'm shy and not aggressive with people. Just who I am. I would considering leading when I'm at mastery level. Not going to do it when I've barely started!

Quick research switching to software development would be a horrible idea for me. I would be throwing away years of experience. What I need to do is re-certify my CCNA get that back up to speed and just get away from help desk. Start applying for networking roles when I'm comfortable. This is my problem and issue I have to correct. I need to make the time for it and no longer go for any desktop support roles at this point after I leave this one soon.

I think a networking position is a middle ground I'm looking for between a full client facing role and moderate client interactions. Now comes the hard work.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


Internet Explorer posted:

I am going to use my impending job transition to get away from anything user facing. I've been doing what I'm doing in one way or another for way too long and I badly need a change.

Good for you

TerryLennox
Oct 12, 2009

There is nothing tougher than a tough Mexican, just as there is nothing gentler than a gentle Mexican, nothing more honest than an honest Mexican, and above all nothing sadder than a sad Mexican. -R. Chandler.

Tab8715 posted:

I’m thinking of IMB Direct:Connect

ConnectDirect is a secure communication app for file transfer between domains where no trust relationships exist. It differs from an SFTP in that you can automate a lot of file transfers using scripting and rules.

It's mainly used by banks to receive input files for batch processes, it does Unix2Dos conversions and viceversa.

The problem is that the drat solution is SOOOO fragile, quirky and finicky and oh so very critical.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Tab8715 posted:

What the gently caress is DirectConnect exactly? I feel like I could replace it with a basic SFTP Server along with a bash cron job - OR - some simple web app.

Direct Connect is good and more people should use it

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


TerryLennox posted:

ConnectDirect is a secure communication app for file transfer between domains where no trust relationships exist. It differs from an SFTP in that you can automate a lot of file transfers using scripting and rules.

It's mainly used by banks to receive input files for batch processes, it does Unix2Dos conversions and viceversa.

The problem is that the drat solution is SOOOO fragile, quirky and finicky and oh so very critical.

What can it automate that I can’t with batch or bash?

AnnoyBot
May 28, 2001
Enterprise level customers at my old job used something called DirectConnect to connect to our services. However I'm not in networking so I don't really know any more about it, except that it was often a pain in the rear end. I realize this is not terribly helpful info :-/

Regarding counteroffers from a few pages ago. I started a new job in December and when I gave notice, my manager and director acted like I was a beloved boyfriend breaking up with them, and begged me to name my price. I said I had made my decision, so thanks no thanks. Though it was a hard call since things were in a pretty good place and I like my team. But they also made it clear by their actions that promotions from within were few and far between. Then the company got bought out 2 months after I left and is going private, so yay me for missing that bullet. Now my old manager is going to interview in my current company (he's a good guy, I've known him for over 10 years and 2 companies).

TerryLennox- the bit about only directors and up being exempt is exactly what I was looking for here. Very interesting. Glad to hear some others found this topic interesting, I know this is a hard crowd to please.

It sounds like union IT work is more common outside the US, since a lot of responses mentioned it. That's pretty much not a thing here in IT, except in government. I don't really count consulting corp-corp, because your relationship is governed by a contract that you, presumably, negotiated. Substantive negotiating below the VP level, aside from haggling over numbers, seems hard (maybe I'm just bad at it) and is basically stonewalled. I assume executives have lawyers involved for their negotiations, but I could be wrong.

Also my wife got laid off 2 days ago. gently caress.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





3PAR OS upgrade cannot continue due to file persona being in a degraded state. The whole point of doing this upgrade was to fix the issue with our degraded file persona.

Bested by a catch 22

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.
I’m handling the entire IT portion of one of our locations moving buildings. They handed this to me like 3 weeks after I started here and I feel like I’m dropping the ball over and over. Really it’s not my fault, but having a rushed order for the ATT circuit with a 4 month buildout, that got finished early, they didn’t supply a router(I figured we’d get a modem but nope), and now I have to wait for att to get us equipment before we can test and turn up. The people at the site are going straight to the CTO with half-true information which is causing tons of confusion with management and people yelling at me over ATTs poo poo.

Really loving stressful and I’m not in any position to fix any of it in a timely manner(right now!!). The move is scheduled for 5/10 lol so I really don’t get why they’re going over our heads to say “everything must be ready yesterday” and passing along snippets of emails.... Our director of infrastructure has know what’s going on the entire time and is trying his best to stop this broken communication but they will not listen. loving frustrating and wanted to complain somewhere. Thanks.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Moves always suck and that sounds particularly lovely. Condolences.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Yea that blows. Get everything in writing in regards to updates and missed dates or whatnot and pass it along. It’s pretty much a CYA situation and you just gotta ride that out.

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

I dunno if it’s been covered earlier but how would you all handle travel? If you got to travel for 2-4 hours to be onsite next day do you do it during your normal work hours or wait till your day is done then leave? How do you handle getting comped for time if you wait till after work to travel?

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Active travel time is paid time, if driving personal vehicle also get compensated for mileage.

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

The Fool posted:

Active travel time is paid time, if driving personal vehicle also get compensated for mileage.

Ok but is that a vote for travel during the day or wait till after the day is done?

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Coredump posted:

Ok but is that a vote for travel during the day or wait till after the day is done?

If you get paid for active travel time after work then go after work. Otherwise just go during the day

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


I did 80% travel. You leave Monday at 8ish and fly home Thursday at 3ish

Just depends on your best flights

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost

jaegerx posted:

I did 80% travel. You leave Monday at 8ish and fly home Thursday at 3ish

Just depends on your best flights

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!



I’m sexy as gently caress

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





You travel on work time, not on your own time. That's the basic rule to live by. If they pay for you to travel on off times, fine. But you don't do it for free. If someone is asking you to travel on your own time that's a red flag.

lampey
Mar 27, 2012

Coredump posted:

I dunno if it’s been covered earlier but how would you all handle travel? If you got to travel for 2-4 hours to be onsite next day do you do it during your normal work hours or wait till your day is done then leave? How do you handle getting comped for time if you wait till after work to travel?

It depends on the needs of the business, what you are doing that day, if there are other people waiting on you, or if you are waiting on someone else and it is hard to generalize. Ideally you want to travel during regular work hours and get work done with whatever is left over. Sometimes it works better for you to do a long day with overtime instead of the company paying for a hotel, or paying for two days of travel expenses.

chocolateTHUNDER
Jul 19, 2008

GIVE ME ALL YOUR FREE AGENTS

ALL OF THEM

Sickening posted:

Because of an audit, we have figured out one of our environment safety specialists doesn't have an ad account or computer. No email, no phone, and he has been and employee of 3 years.

What are the odds that he has actually done any work in the last 3 years? He has been getting a paycheck, I just confirmed it.

Can anyone link that story where some guy was lost in the payroll system for like 10 years or something after they changed the software they used and he got assigned a non-existent department code?

It was a whole story about how he basically showed up to work for 10 years not having any oversight whatsoever because of this payroll glitch, and one day he found someone else in this mega-corp that had the same thing happen to them.

I don't know if the story was real or not, but it was pretty drat entertaining!

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

chocolateTHUNDER posted:

Can anyone link that story where some guy was lost in the payroll system for like 10 years or something after they changed the software they used and he got assigned a non-existent department code?

It was a whole story about how he basically showed up to work for 10 years not having any oversight whatsoever because of this payroll glitch, and one day he found someone else in this mega-corp that had the same thing happen to them.

I don't know if the story was real or not, but it was pretty drat entertaining!

To update this, the plant the employee worked out of had mixed knowledge of if he still worked there. Some employees said he did, while others said he didn't. The employee also for some reason never had a direct manager after the one he had at some point retired.

The hr person I spoke to said he was active in our HR system but not employed. I asked for clarification on what that meant but was stonewalled pretty hard. I suspect someone got embarrassed for leaving room for a large security issue. He might have been getting paycheck for this entire time. I don't get the details.

I did however get the okay to have my guys terminate the accounts and such. :iiam:

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


This is something along those lines, a hero I am sure we can all agree https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35557725

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





So in "getting laid off and replaced by an MSP" news, they are throwing a luncheon for us on our last day that the entire company is invited to. No, no one asked if that was something we wanted.

I feel like I'm in a bad (good?) episode of The Office. So ready to be done with these clowns.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Internet Explorer posted:

So in "getting laid off and replaced by an MSP" news, they are throwing a luncheon for us on our last day that the entire company is invited to. No, no one asked if that was something we wanted.

I feel like I'm in a bad (good?) episode of The Office. So ready to be done with these clowns.

Pretty poor taste. I don't think I would attend. They shouldn't be throwing you a going away party when you are getting laid off.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Sickening posted:

I don't think I would attend show up to work that day

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Yeah, it's insane. There's severance involved and references, etc., so I am trying not to rock the boat but that's either profoundly ignorant or really petty and vindictive. I'm sure it's profoundly ignorant, because that'd be par for the course... but my god.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007


Didn't you arrange for the MSP to replace ya'll but they didn't consult you on lunch?!

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Yes. :rolleye:

Ready to be done with this transition.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Well. A week out of work and I have a new job doing office 365 security and compliance consulting. Only problem is I need to put together a brochure of everything my company offers which is a bit lol oh gently caress gotta throw something together and make it pretty.

Sixth grade here we come!

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in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

Sickening posted:

Pretty poor taste. I don't think I would attend. They shouldn't be throwing you a going away party when you are getting laid off.

I had a coworker who was fired* show up to another coworker’s going away party.

* Not an immediate termination, but failed the probationary period.

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