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Detective No. 27 posted:Citation wanted. Detective Comics #575, according to internet. The villain’s name is Reaper. Technically speaking, Batman tries to rescue him from being tossed off the building, but Reaper refuses to be saved because he thinks Batman is the better murderous vigilante. (And that doesn’t really change the fact that he tossed the guy off a building.) SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 19:00
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BigglesSWE posted:You know, it's possible to not like a killing Batman from the past just as much as a killing Batman in the present. The idea seems to be then to not get like, really loving pissed at a director for having a different take on the character, and call him stupid and say that he doesn't "get" the character, etc. Especially when the version we are discussing is already a kind of "elseworlds" take on the character to begin with (an older Batman, not in the prime of his career like you'd expect). Obviously you can have your own personal opinions on things, but we are talking about the former.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:03
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Guy A. Person posted:The idea seems to be then to not get like, really loving pissed at a director for having a different take on the character, and call him stupid and say that he doesn't "get" the character, etc. Especially when the version we are discussing is already a kind of "elseworlds" take on the character to begin with (an older Batman, not in the prime of his career like you'd expect). Yeah, okay, if that's the argument then sure. But having a different take on the characters is not the same thing as making a good movie. I'm honestly quite fascinated in Zack Snyder. To me, he hasn't made one good movie, yet clearly his stuff works for a lot of people. It's one of those "what am I missing here?"
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Mar 27, 2019 19:05
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It would be hilarious if he was forced to make a public apology and say the character is Elseworlds.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:06
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BigglesSWE posted:Yeah, okay, if that's the argument then sure. I thought Man of Steel was good tbh I also think he is a genius at credit scenes which makes sense as a music video guy but his credit scenes are consistently impressive. The opening to Watchmen justified the whole film imho.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:10
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BigglesSWE posted:Yeah, okay, if that's the argument then sure. People are free to hate the movies, but when people put effort into refuting a very specific criticism that has been lodged over and over at this interpretation, it's kind of lame to hear "k but it sux anyway" in response. I know you personally were not invested in making that criticism, but it often seems that once the effort has been put in, suddenly the argument reverts to "it doesn't matter because Snyder did it wrong," "it's just bad though," etc.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:11
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The more I think about and rewatch Man of Steel the more I love it so I'm a Snyder fan just for that movie alone.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:12
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Guy A. Person posted:The absolute fact of Superman and Batman never killing is more important than their actual morality and reasons for not killing. By this logic, a Batman who fully intends to kill everyone he fights but is foiled by dumb luck or quick responding paramedics would still technically be acceptable. They literally gave this "superpower" to the Hulk and marvel fans think it's genius.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:12
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Edit whoops
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Mar 27, 2019 19:13
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ruddiger posted:They literally gave this "superpower" to the Hulk and marvel fans think it's genius. I'm looking for the panels, it was an Amadeus Cho thing. It's so dumb that I love it.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:17
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BigglesSWE posted:You know, it's possible to not like a killing Batman from the past just as much as a killing Batman in the present. BigglesSWE posted:But having a different take on the characters is not the same thing as making a good movie. You allowed to like or not like whatever Batmen and movies you want, dude. No one is taking that from you.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:18
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Martman posted:The argument regarding Batman killing, here and in many other places, started with claims that Snyder's Batman was wrong because not killing is central to Batman's character, so Snyder "missed the point" of Batman or whatever. The point of listing all the times Batman has killed wantonly isn't to show "see? Therefore BvS Batman is good," it's "that specific criticism of this being an invalid take on Batman is completely unreasonable based on the history of the character." I think a big problem is there's this huge disconnect between actual film theory and modern criticism which tends to focus on plot based issues. Trying to articulate why you found a movie bad/disappointing can actually be a tricky prospect, and people tend to fall back on easy criticisms. Which is why you get complaints like "this character did something dumb" even if it was in character for that to happen, or the "dumb" thing was relatively innocuous part of the movie. Basebf555 posted:The more I think about and rewatch Man of Steel the more I love it so I'm a Snyder fan just for that movie alone. Absolutely. I wasn't even planning to see the movie because I wasn't that in to Superman, but it has grown on me so much. I really only like MoS and BvS, I should give his other stuff a rewatch to see if it clicks with me.
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Mar 27, 2019 19:19
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As I said before, what I liked about Man of Steel is that there was no binary, and that Clark Kent and Superman were a cohesive identical whole and not two separate embodiments of different identities and values. I was so disappointed they abandoned that idea in the end and subsequent films
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Mar 27, 2019 19:24
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Jls zombie superman is real bad
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Mar 27, 2019 20:15
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MacheteZombie posted:Jls zombie superman is real bad I was amused by assuming there would be some grand significance and difficulty to his resurrection but nope they are just like "lets drop this thing in some water and see what happens"
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Mar 27, 2019 20:20
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MacheteZombie posted:Jls zombie superman is real bad Watching it for the first time I had no idea what they were going for, the way it was written combined with the way Cavill played those scenes was just weird and confusing. Since then I've rewatched the movie and a rewatch did not help make those scenes any less confusing. Like, Cavill has this really maniacal face on when he says "Do you bleed?", to the point that it's comical. Then 3 seconds later he's completely himself again because he saw Lois? But also not really? I dunno it was hard to tell considering he barely got any screentime except to throw a few punches at Doomsday.
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Mar 27, 2019 20:24
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Basebf555 posted:Like, Cavill has this really maniacal face on when he says "Do you bleed?", to the point that it's comical. Then 3 seconds later he's completely himself again because he saw Lois? But also not really? I dunno it was hard to tell considering he barely got any screentime except to throw a few punches at Doomsday. The flash scene was genuinely pretty cool and actually made me go "oh poo poo"
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Mar 27, 2019 20:25
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Mel Mudkiper posted:As I said before, what I liked about Man of Steel is that there was no binary, and that Clark Kent and Superman were a cohesive identical whole and not two separate embodiments of different identities and values. I was so disappointed they abandoned that idea in the end and subsequent films I like it in that it's consistent that when he's trying to be SUPERMAN he tends to fail but when he's Clark Kent in a superhero suit things tend to work out.
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Mar 27, 2019 20:27
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MacheteZombie posted:Jls zombie superman is real bad Sometimes dead is better
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Mar 27, 2019 20:47
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God drat could you just imagine a seven foot tall Fred Gwynn playing a Maine-accented Superman, just bodyslamming Batman like Andre The Giant. The only Elseworlds I need.
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Mar 27, 2019 20:50
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BigglesSWE posted:Yeah, okay, if that's the argument then sure. Half of his films are worth it for the scores within alone. Start there. Then look at some of the standout scenes with only score.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:14
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Guy A. Person posted:I think a big problem is there's this huge disconnect between actual film theory and modern criticism which tends to focus on plot based issues. Trying to articulate why you found a movie bad/disappointing can actually be a tricky prospect, and people tend to fall back on easy criticisms. Which is why you get complaints like "this character did something dumb" even if it was in character for that to happen, or the "dumb" thing was relatively innocuous part of the movie. I like most of Dawn and love MoS. I appreciate Watchmen and BvS and think that Sucker Punch was a nice attempt that didn't really hit the notes it wanted to correctly. And I agree entirely on modern "critcism." Ebert's most known reviews having fun with how stupid the plot of things are (mainly his Jaws 4 review) ruined everything.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:17
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Hard for me to understand how someone can watch Man of Steel and not think it's A. Interesting as hell B. An extremely good looking film to boot Those two things put it head and shoulders above almost any other comic book movie out there.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:18
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Darko posted:Half of his films are worth it for the scores within alone. Start there. Then look at some of the standout scenes with only score. MoS and BvS have some of the only modern movie scores I can remember.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:21
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'm looking for the panels, it was an Amadeus Cho thing. It's so dumb that I love it. Am I a joke to you, bro? McCloud posted:As a reminder of how dumb comics get sometimes, Hulk avoids civilian deaths by subconsciously using super-math!
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Mar 27, 2019 21:28
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BigglesSWE posted:Yeah, okay, if that's the argument then sure. Do you want me to count the ways I love Zaddy's movies? Cause I totally can.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:29
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I could probably watch Justice League again but every time I think "maybe I'll check it out again so I can better pick it apart and develop my criticisms of it further" I also then think about the score and how utterly loving trash it was. That score actively makes watching that film painful. It's truly on a level of awful that I couldn't possibly imagine. I imagined a trainwreck when Joss Whedon's involvement was announced but I had at least some silver of hope that Danny Elfman's score would at least be decent enough. Nope. He didn't even do his own loving Batman score well.
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Mar 27, 2019 21:31
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Guy A. Person posted:The absolute fact of Superman and Batman never killing is more important than their actual morality and reasons for not killing. By this logic, a Batman who fully intends to kill everyone he fights but is foiled by dumb luck or quick responding paramedics would still technically be acceptable. My favourite of these is the opening of Batman Beyond, where an older Bruce Wayne almost shoots a thug because otherwise that thug will beat him to death. Bruce only doesn't pull the trigger because the thug is terrified of dying and so runs away, but this is the reason why Bruce hangs up the cowl. Also from the much coveted JLU is older Bruce going back to the past and there being a fade to black as he, presumably, tortures a thug for information after scoffing at his younger version of being too soft, "I can't believe I was ever that green". So, sure, I guess in BTAS and the other DCAU shows Bruce/Batman never "kills" anyone but people sure will bend over backwards to justify the equally heinous things he does because "the ends justify the means".
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Mar 27, 2019 22:04
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Watching relatively sane people completely snap about Evil Snyder's Batman Take is wild poo poo. Most of these people are left politically and would totally agree with you if you said "you know Batman is a fascist cop, poo poo that guy would probably quote Dick Cheney if he could" and then it happens and they totally flip out. I really am baffled.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:11
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"Zack Snyder is bad" is like the free square in Twitter personality bingo. You've can't ever stop playing if you want to stay at all relegant, and you gotta win frequently to maintain a high profile, so don't think about it goddammit, just post!!
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Mar 27, 2019 22:28
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I mean Paul F Thompkins flipping out over Batman's honor. What the gently caress!?!?!?!? This world is crazy!
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Mar 27, 2019 22:43
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Who is that btw
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Mar 27, 2019 22:45
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RBA Starblade posted:Who is that btw A very funny dapper comedian who does a ton of podcasts. He seems like the last kind of guy who would flip out like this.
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Mar 27, 2019 22:47
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It really is that Zach Snyder is a fake gamer girl who doesn't understand Batman, that's the criticism.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:07
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Jimbot posted:I could probably watch Justice League again but every time I think "maybe I'll check it out again so I can better pick it apart and develop my criticisms of it further" I also then think about the score and how utterly loving trash it was. That score actively makes watching that film painful. It's truly on a level of awful that I couldn't possibly imagine. This is very true, it's genuinely distracting in how lovely it is and I don't notice scores that much when I'm watching films. Elfman usually isn't that bad, right? I don't know what the gently caress happened there.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:19
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Elfman has been phoning it in for a while now, and I say that as someone who considers his 80s-90s output (both in Boingo and solo) to be absolutely impeccable.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:22
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Elfman hasn’t turned in a good score in over a decade now.Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Watching relatively sane people completely snap about Evil Snyder's Batman Take is wild poo poo. Most of these people are left politically and would totally agree with you if you said "you know Batman is a fascist cop, poo poo that guy would probably quote Dick Cheney if he could" and then it happens and they totally flip out. I really am baffled. Pretty much every left personality I’ve seen is posting some variation of a “[children’s cartoon] is violent wake the gently caress up” meme like Batman isn’t a chronology whose most beloved stories include a teenager being beat to death with a pipe, a man who shits himself constantly due to his own indecisiveness, multiple serial killers, and Batman’s sidekick being paralyzed and then sexually assaulted.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:27
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Elfman's been phoning it in for at least a decade. Here's something I've been wondering. I'm trying to get my mind around my train of thought, so bare with me if it sounds incoherent. The anti-Snyder crowd doesn't like his adaptation of Watchmen because they claim it glorifies violence in a way that Moore's book was actively deconstructing. They're willing to cop that Watchmen (the book) is trying to say something more about superhero comics than the average comic. Why is it that they can't posit that the movie is trying to do the same to superhero movies?
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Mar 27, 2019 23:30
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^ Most people are only dimly aware of what Watchmen was trying to say about comics and fewer still hold that in the context of the actual impact it had on the medium.Pirate Jet posted:Pretty much every left personality I’ve seen is posting some variation of a “[children’s cartoon] is violent wake the gently caress up” meme like Batman isn’t a chronology whose most beloved stories include a teenager being beat to death with a pipe, a man who shits himself constantly due to his own indecisiveness, multiple serial killers, and Batman’s sidekick being paralyzed and then sexually assaulted. Past a point, the meme is just an empty box you load a joke into. The weirdness comes out when you listen to people discuss Snyder himself.
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Mar 27, 2019 23:32
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i really have to respect snyder's ability to screw with people https://twitter.com/awarmann/status/1110873014374146048 (this is real but he was joking) Detective No. 27 posted:Here's something I've been wondering. I'm trying to get my mind around my train of thought, so bare with me if it sounds incoherent. The anti-Snyder crowd doesn't like his adaptation of Watchmen because they claim it glorifies violence in a way that Moore's book was actively deconstructing. They're willing to cop that Watchmen (the book) is trying to say something more about superhero comics than the average comic. Why is it that they can't posit that the movie is trying to do the same to superhero movies? because they don't think the movie did so effectively
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Mar 27, 2019 23:35
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