Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I don't want to talk about exactly what we're asking, but it's for junior level.

Let's just say it's fizzbuzz. What would you suggest to someone who had never done fizbuzz without telling them how to do fizzbuzz? Mostly to prepare for the process of going through a problem on a whiteboard.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Do you even need to solve this problem? If you're bringing somebody in and they need to be able to problem solve in front of a (hostile-ish) audience from day one then having people trip up on a whiteboard exercise during the hiring process is the thing working as intended. If you're doing the technical interview and you feel the candidate is better than their performance on the whiteboard exercise then you can just give them an offer anyway.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

I don't want to talk about exactly what we're asking, but it's for junior level.

Let's just say it's fizzbuzz. What would you suggest to someone who had never done fizbuzz without telling them how to do fizzbuzz? Mostly to prepare for the process of going through a problem on a whiteboard.

What real world application do the techniques used to solve fizzbuzz have in your environment?

Asking someone to do fizzbuzz is no different than asking them if they memorized pi to x places.

e: I understand that you are using fizzbuzz as a placeholder to whatever problem you are actually asking your candidate to solve, my point stands for any coding interview question with arbitrary algorithm problems that no-one uses outside of the interview process.

The Fool fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 30, 2019

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

I don't want to talk about exactly what we're asking, but it's for junior level.

Let's just say it's fizzbuzz. What would you suggest to someone who had never done fizbuzz without telling them how to do fizzbuzz? Mostly to prepare for the process of going through a problem on a whiteboard.

You should just tell them beforehand to expect a coding interview on a whiteboard. What i got from a company in their preparation email:
pre:
- 1 Interviews focusing on your CS Fundamentals (General Software Engineering Interviews). If there is coding, it will be in Java on a Whiteboard
that line was one in 1000 lines email.

Later they said:
pre:
I highly recommend practicing your code on challenge websites like Project Euler, Interviewing.io, Topcoder, HackerRank, and LeetCode. Try timing yourself through the  problems, ranging from easy to the most difficult. 
Now you know what to expect, what to use to prepare, have fun.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


I go with here’s what we want. Show your code in GitHub. That’s what my coding jobs ask for now.

Sepist
Dec 26, 2005

FUCK BITCHES, ROUTE PACKETS

Gravy Boat 2k

Sepist posted:

These professional sports teams IT groups have it nice. I'm onsite at a baseball team right now and they gave me the grand tour earlier. Due to sponsorships they get tons of free poo poo, and all of the breakfast, lunch and dinners are either catered, in stock, or the food places onsite have dry runs where they serve the employees for free. Lot of other perks too but the food stuck out to me

Definitely found my "lifer" job for the future

I take it back. The network engineer offered to drive me home so I didn't have to spend $100 on an Uber (he lives one town over) and every single person commented on the way out that he was "working a short day today" (it was 6:30). I asked him what his normal day is and he said he normally gets in at 9 and gets home at 11:30!! Plus they all work every weekend!!!

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Volguus posted:

pre:
I highly recommend practicing your code on challenge websites like Project Euler, Interviewing.io, Topcoder, HackerRank, and LeetCode. Try timing yourself through the  problems, ranging from easy to the most difficult. 
Now you know what to expect, what to use to prepare, have fun.

No offense, but if you are bringing on a junior level person who is prepared for this, you probably aren't a company in the running for someone this talented. I mean if you are google etc, go nuts.

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Sepist posted:

I take it back. The network engineer offered to drive me home so I didn't have to spend $100 on an Uber (he lives one town over) and every single person commented on the way out that he was "working a short day today" (it was 6:30). I asked him what his normal day is and he said he normally gets in at 9 and gets home at 11:30!! Plus they all work every weekend!!!

Yeah I work in the same building as a bunch of low-mid level Boston Celtics employees. Pretty much every morning when I'm showing up at 9 they're getting in the elevator talking about how late they were up doing whatever poo poo had to be completed after the game. Sounds exhausting.

The video game industry comparison seems apt. You're 100% being exploited for your "passion" in these kind of jobs. And maybe you're OK with that as long as it means you get to work on whatever thing matters that much to you. But go in with eyes wide open about how bad the conditions are gonna be, and how there's 500 other people clamoring to pick up the job when you burn out.

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

Sickening posted:

No offense, but if you are bringing on a junior level person who is prepared for this, you probably aren't a company in the running for someone this talented. I mean if you are google etc, go nuts.

Sorry, yes, this was from the google email. I thought it was reasonable, but hey, i could be wrong.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

I would fail the whiteboard challenge purely because I'm not a visual thinker. I like to reason abstractly and just describe what I want to do. I could type it out instead of saying it, but if you want me to draw it, all the sudden 90% of my mental power is going to "what the hell am I supposed to draw" and only the meager remnants are engaged with the problem.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


Zorak of Michigan posted:

I would fail the whiteboard challenge purely because I'm not a visual thinker. I like to reason abstractly and just describe what I want to do. I could type it out instead of saying it, but if you want me to draw it, all the sudden 90% of my mental power is going to "what the hell am I supposed to draw" and only the meager remnants are engaged with the problem.

This. It took me 3 John care classes before I could whiteboard. This is a skill you learn

nullfunction
Jan 24, 2005

Nap Ghost

jaegerx posted:

This is a skill you learn

It is, and it's actually one of the things that I miss most about working remotely. Nobody wants to do multiplayer Visio.

I think if anyone asked me to do FizzBuzz I'd just link them this on my way out of the interview:

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

nitsuga posted:

Hey IT thread,

Total E/N ahead...

I could use some career advice. Nothing is certain yet, but I’m interviewing for a cloud services (level one) role. Currently I work in app and device management (Jamf, SCCM, and Google primarily.

I’ve been at my organization for 4 years, but was promoted to my current role 5 months ago. There’s loads to do here, but we’re definitely not a fast-paced org. In my role now I feel I could do a lot if I stick with it, even just for a while longer. It’s public too so the hours are good and the pay is hard to beat. With some more training I could probably spend my career here (or have career more options in similar organizations).

Now the other position is exciting, I’d get to touch new stuff, but I’d be all-in on one product and have to work weekends. Some of their other positions sound cool, but others require a lot of travel, and I imagine are a lot more stressful. Along with that, they’re private and I think matching my salary might be a “stretch” for them.

I’ve got an interview Tuesday, so I’m going to do some thinking over the weekend and hopefully talk to my supervisor a bit too.

That said, I’d appreciate some advice. What questions would you ask yourself? If you’ve had to choose between two similar choices, what did you choose and why?

I’d really appreciate hearing anything you have to say. Thanks!



Digital_Jesus posted:

Ask yourself which you're more interested in: Developing new skills at a new organization or honing existing skills in a stable work environment with long-term potential.

Every job move involves risk, even more so when moving from a position you know you're secure in to something new in a different company. If you're risk adverse and don't like the inherent instability of a job change, stay where you are and look for alternative avenues of learning new skills if you're bored with what you do now. You may also find your new job will stale quickly while you put in your merit time before being allowed to move to a higher level roll or alternate career path.

Personally I love switching jobs and learning new stuff. Very little hesitation to do so if the financials make sense. Some people not so much.

Endpoint Management as a skill set isn't going to be obsolete anytime in the near future, so weigh that in too.

E: As to what to ask, my own questions would revolve entirely around what I just outlined above. Every potential new employer gets asked "Why should I leave a stable long-term working environment to join your organization?". The ones worth working for have better answers than "Because we offer new opportunities!"

Don't forget to factor in work environment and life balance as well. Are you willing to sacrifice your personal time to learn new things in a private sector job that will most definitely treat you worse than a public organization? Whats the dress code? Are you giving up Jeans and T-Shirts for slacks and a button down? Working hours too. I'd rather work 35 than 50 for the same salary.

Lot of good advice from Digital_Jesus here.

You haven't given us a ton to go on so sorry if I'm making bad assumptions. But your current job sounds pretty sweet. Good hours, good pay, path to career growth (you've been promoted at least once already), training. It would take a lot to pry me out of that, and it doesn't sound like the new place is really offering a lot. What about your situation is driving you to interview elsewhere?

Making assumptions again, but sounds like you're just getting bored? "Endpoint management" as Digital_Jesus put it does seem like it could get pretty old, even if it is stable and pays the bills. But taking a pay cut, having to work weekends and possibly travel a lot is pretty drastic just to mix things up and play with cooler(?) tech. It can't hurt to take the interview, but I bet you can do better if you keep looking.

waloo
Mar 15, 2002
Your Oedipus complex will prove your undoing.

feedmegin posted:

I, too, enjoyed the movie 'Office Space'

Maybe it was https://sites.google.com/site/forgottenemployee/ instead?

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality
Long story told:

Lesson learned only trust family and close personal friends.

DropsySufferer fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Mar 30, 2019

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


DropsySufferer posted:


Lesson learned only trust family and close personal friends.

lol

LochNessMonster
Feb 3, 2005

I need about three fitty


I trust half of my family about as far as I can throw a piano.

Being family doesn’t mean they can’t be complete idiots.

DropsySufferer
Nov 9, 2008

Impractical practicality
True true. I have a cousin wanting my mom’s 50K diamond ring to be given to her in the will for years... Iol.

Still I want to believe the world is a good place. Healthy cynicism is correct learn from mistakes but give people a chance until they prove otherwise.

nitsuga
Jan 1, 2007

Docjowles posted:

Lot of good advice from Digital_Jesus here.

You haven't given us a ton to go on so sorry if I'm making bad assumptions. But your current job sounds pretty sweet. Good hours, good pay, path to career growth (you've been promoted at least once already), training. It would take a lot to pry me out of that, and it doesn't sound like the new place is really offering a lot. What about your situation is driving you to interview elsewhere?

Making assumptions again, but sounds like you're just getting bored? "Endpoint management" as Digital_Jesus put it does seem like it could get pretty old, even if it is stable and pays the bills. But taking a pay cut, having to work weekends and possibly travel a lot is pretty drastic just to mix things up and play with cooler(?) tech. It can't hurt to take the interview, but I bet you can do better if you keep looking.

Thanks Digital_Jesus and to you too. The interview's all set, so I'm definitely going, but I don't think I'll pursue it further. Sorry if I was too vague, just trying not to disclose too much.

As for why I'm looking, it is basically out of frustration with some processes and wanting to know more driving me to look. The more I've thought about it though, the more I realize it's pretty much job responsibility #1 to help my organization do better. I'm here to provide expertise in what best practices are and to implement them (both in building workflows and teaching other staff (level II and I about them). It's a bit hard to expect a relatively large environment (50,000+ devices/people) to change overnight, even if some things are definitely overdue.

Anyway, I think if I spend more time doing this (my job), getting some schooling on networking, and continuing to work on my scripting, I definitely could move into more interesting roles here or at similar organizations.

EDIT: To throw you all some love, I think part of my interest is also due to what I see going around in this and our other threads. It's hard for me not to be impressed and to want to "join the crowd".

nitsuga fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 30, 2019

Comradephate
Feb 28, 2009

College Slice

jaegerx posted:

Just ask how traceroute works. If they know, then they understand networking

I don't really consider it critical, but it always surprises me how many candidates don't know this one, even at a fairly high level. Right up there with "How does your computer actually decide how to do a DNS lookup?" in terms of questions even experienced people frequently whiff. I've probably done 60 or so phone screens in the past year and definitely no more than three candiates said the word "nsswitch"

E: I get that nsswitch is a thing that generally works and mostly doesn't need to be customized, particularly in my line of work, (SRE) but it's still a strange gap.

Comradephate fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Mar 31, 2019

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


Nobody can explain how email gets to the right place

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

Thanks Ants posted:

Nobody can explain how email gets to the right place

Well they go through a bunch of interconnected tubes...

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Email is right up there with printers for stupid bullshit that only barely works on the best of days.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Thanks Ants posted:

Nobody can explain how email gets to the right place
by mistake, of course




the hard part of explaining email isn't explaining how it gets to the right place, it's explaining why there's nothing you can do about all the unending, torrential flood of unwanted garbage also getting to the right place

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost
My favorite part of email is that the from header is completely meaningless

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...

Sepist posted:

I take it back. The network engineer offered to drive me home so I didn't have to spend $100 on an Uber (he lives one town over) and every single person commented on the way out that he was "working a short day today" (it was 6:30). I asked him what his normal day is and he said he normally gets in at 9 and gets home at 11:30!! Plus they all work every weekend!!!

A lifetime ago I interned for an NHL team and for zero pay I was expected to be there 8-5 every day plus every home game. Some days I would be there from 8 am until 11 pm or later because I would have to do stupid intern bullshit after the game too. Luckily the 10-15 hours a week I worked at Blockbuster more than covered my 60+ hours a week internship :rolleyes:

And yes even then I knew unpaid internships were a scam, but it was right at the start of the recession and I literally could not find paying work (Blockbuster was a godsend believe it or not, and having a girlfriend with a full time job kept me from living in my car.)

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal
I have a powershell module that pulls data from a database, builds API calls with the data, collects the results, and correlates it with some other data into an extremely useful report.

Today I got the whole thing running in kubernetes on a daily schedule and uploading the results to another API for dissemination to the target teams.

Now a thing that was unattainable due to the admin overhead of running and collecting these reports is delivered like clockwork every day.

Sometimes we really are wizards.

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Judge Schnoopy posted:

I have a powershell module that pulls data from a database, builds API calls with the data, collects the results, and correlates it with some other data into an extremely useful report.

Today I got the whole thing running in kubernetes on a daily schedule and uploading the results to another API for dissemination to the target teams.

Now a thing that was unattainable due to the admin overhead of running and collecting these reports is delivered like clockwork every day.

Sometimes we really are wizards.

Is this public? If not, it should be.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal
Nope, company is super protective of anything coded inside. Most of it is hyper-specific to our environment, which I've come to learn through arguments with vendors is very, very unique.

Comradephate
Feb 28, 2009

College Slice

my condolences

Docjowles
Apr 9, 2009

Kubernetes is cool and good, though

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


Judge Schnoopy posted:

I have a powershell module that pulls data from a database, builds API calls with the data, collects the results, and correlates it with some other data into an extremely useful report.

Today I got the whole thing running in kubernetes on a daily schedule and uploading the results to another API for dissemination to the target teams.

Now a thing that was unattainable due to the admin overhead of running and collecting these reports is delivered like clockwork every day.

Sometimes we really are wizards.

I gotta ask. Why did you use k8s for this? This is a Jenkins thing.

You used a container scheduler for a cron job. This isn’t magic

jaegerx fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Apr 2, 2019

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

jaegerx posted:

I gotta ask. Why did you use k8s for this? This is a Jenkins thing.

You used a container scheduler for a cron job. This isn’t magic

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

captaingimpy
Aug 3, 2004

I luv me some pirate booty, and I'm not talkin' about the gold!
Fun Shoe

jaegerx posted:

I gotta ask. Why did you use k8s for this? This is a Jenkins thing.

You used a container scheduler for a cron job. This isn’t magic

Maybe he's running Jenkins inside of k8s?

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost

Twat Waffle posted:

Maybe he's running Jenkins inside of k8s?

do not do this

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

jaegerx posted:

I gotta ask. Why did you use k8s for this? This is a Jenkins thing.

You used a container scheduler for a cron job. This isn’t magic

K8 was shorthand for 'gitlab pipeline sends the build to Jenkins, which loads that build to jfrog, then rancher pulls the image and provides config maps to run the project in k8s'.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...
I’ve never done any podcast listening but I downloaded an app and am now paralyzed by choice. What do you guys like? I’m looking for networking and Cisco choices but am open to any IT topics. I just don’t know who has good presentation or whatever.

DelphiAegis
Jun 21, 2010

Judge Schnoopy posted:

K8 was shorthand for 'gitlab pipeline sends the build to Jenkins, which loads that build to jfrog, then rancher pulls the image and provides config maps to run the project in k8s'.

I feel like this is the equivalent of the doc screnshotted, pasted into a word doc, pdf'd, faxed, emailed, ziped, etc. I don't know enough about K8 etc to really go whole ham on using as many automated services as you possibly can to automate one task though.

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before
I assume that's the pipeline for deploying/testing the code itself not actually running it (it probably runs as a daemon within the container once it's deployed I assume).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.
Got a phone call this morning, cryptolocker infection!!!! Text files demanding 30 btc on all of our exchange and production CMS systems needed by about 40 different locations.

Going to be a long loving day

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply