|
Well you see, Disney bought out all those theaters so...
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 14:58 |
|
|
Rhyno posted:Well you see, Disney bought out all those theaters so... Yes, I remember going to watch it and the theater was empty, the people around me agreed the theater was empty as well. So sad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 20:16
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Well you see, Disney bought out all those theaters so... Is this seriously the narrative?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 20:18
|
|
|
Prokhor Zakharov posted:Is this seriously the narrative? It's something an idiot former customer of mine believes. He tagged me into a FB discussion thinking I would back him up. Dude sees some dude on YT and can't seem to think for himself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 20:25
|
|
|
Prokhor Zakharov posted:Is this seriously the narrative? When they aren't accusing Brie Larson of scamming charities.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:I’m not sure this is true at all. Most of it isn't via traditional distribution. Mainly because people know that comic shops are a dicey proposition if you're not an adult white straight dude.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 21:03
|
|
|
Puppy Time posted:Most of it isn't via traditional distribution. Mainly because people know that comic shops are a dicey proposition if you're not an adult white straight dude. I’m curious what numbers you have to support this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Cape comics ain't going nowhere so long as the MCU films keep doing a BILLION bucks each. The problem with that thought is while people may love to watch the movies, it's not translating into book sales. Captain Marvel has sold 100 million tickets; even with hype for the movie and being a new #1 Captain Marvel only sold just over 120,000 copies. #2 sold less than a third of that. And those comics cost a third as much as a movie ticket.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
It's not Mark, but will Gerry Conway do? https://twitter.com/gerryconway/status/1114614649826078720 Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:I’m curious what numbers you have to support this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 21:49
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/42723/february-2019-npd-bookscan-top-20-adult-graphic-novels
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:This chart doesn't even include stuff categorized as "children's graphic novels", which looking at the annual charts means ignoring a huge amount of sales. Raina Telgemeier and Dav Pilkey sold literally millions of graphic novels each over the past few years, almost none of them through the direct market. I don't even think that Bookscan covers things like the Scholastic Book Sales at schools, which anecdotally include these books (and Bone and other comics, including sometimes stuff like Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl and I'm sure these new DC graphic novels) prominently too. quote:https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-268-looking-at-bookscan-2017-and-this-time-its-certified/
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 00:24
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:This chart doesn't even include stuff categorized as "children's graphic novels", which looking at the annual charts means ignoring a huge amount of sales. Raina Telgemeier and Dav Pilkey sold literally millions of graphic novels each over the past few years, almost none of them through the direct market. I don't even think that Bookscan covers things like the Scholastic Book Sales at schools, which anecdotally include these books (and Bone and other comics, including sometimes stuff like Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl and I'm sure these new DC graphic novels) prominently too. Even people I interact with who should absolutely no better discount that market and it's insane.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Cape comics ain't going nowhere so long as the MCU films keep doing a BILLION bucks each. A dude posted:The problem with that thought is while people may love to watch the movies, it's not translating into book sales. Captain Marvel has sold 100 million tickets; even with hype for the movie and being a new #1 Captain Marvel only sold just over 120,000 copies. #2 sold less than a third of that. And those comics cost a third as much as a movie ticket. Marvel is in a weird spot; the movies are cranking in a quajillion dollars a year, Marvel video games are hot, and marketing is as good as ever; but the actual paper comics are on life support. People young and old are standing in line to see Captain Marvel, but absolutely none of the young'uns are venturing into a comic store afterwards, and a lot of the old codgers like me have mostly given up on paper as well. I can't speak for DC/others, but I'd say that Marvel is keeping paper comics around to 'prop up' the movies even though they're losing money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:37
|
|
|
Gynovore posted:Marvel is in a weird spot; the movies are cranking in a quajillion dollars a year, Marvel video games are hot, and marketing is as good as ever; but the actual paper comics are on life support. People young and old are standing in line to see Captain Marvel, but absolutely none of the young'uns are venturing into a comic store afterwards, and a lot of the old codgers like me have mostly given up on paper as well. The problem is, who wants to go out of their way to a comic shop? Especially when comic shops don't have the best reputation in the world? DC is at least trying to break into new markets with their Wal-Mart books, but then fuckin' lol they just had to pull a DC and gently caress it up with the 'watch Lois Lane get brutally murdered over and over again' bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:47
|
|
|
Its pretty well accepted that traditional distribution is strangling paper comics.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:50
|
|
|
Vandar posted:The problem is, who wants to go out of their way to a comic shop? Especially when comic shops don't have the best reputation in the world? I'm sorry what? I don't know if this is off topic but I hadn't heard about this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
They let misery master Tom King write a Wal-Mart checkout stand Superman comic :/
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I'm sorry what? I don't know if this is off topic but I hadn't heard about this. https://www.supermanhomepage.com/walmart-customers-outraged-over-violent-superman-comic-book/ Tom King wrote a Superman story for the Wal-Mart line that was essentially twelve pages of Lois Lane torture porn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:07
|
|
|
Vandar posted:https://www.supermanhomepage.com/walmart-customers-outraged-over-violent-superman-comic-book/ Well that is sure a goddamn thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:24
|
|
|
These are sold in the same aisle as the Pokémon and Yugioh cards. They are very clearly meant for children. How the gently caress do you screw this up so bad?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 04:38
|
|
|
DC has been stuck in Grimdark as the salvation for all it's woes for quite a while.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 05:23
|
|
|
Vandar posted:The problem is, who wants to go out of their way to a comic shop? Especially when comic shops don't have the best reputation in the world? Comic shops do have a rep of being dusty, dimly lit basement stores staffed by neckbeards. But there are a few bright, shiny stores like Newbury Comics, and from what I've heard sales are in the toilet there too. A dude posted:https://www.supermanhomepage.com/wa...man-comic-book/ FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 05:30
|
|
|
The problem with all these hot takes about comic book sales is that we don't really have hard data. We know how many books have been shipped by diamond and that's it. We don't know how good digital sales are. We don't know how many books actually sell through to readers. And in the absence of data rumors prevail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 05:47
|
|
|
I am loving losing my mind laughing at that Wal-mart comic. Holy poo poo! It's not even a comic Wal-mart just happened to sell, it's a comic that they made just for Wal-mart to sell with goddamn children's games. It's bad enough on its own, because who the hell wants that other than serial killers and spree shooters? But you specifically made it for kids, what the HELL? Oh poo poo, I made the mistake of looking at this tweet's replies: https://twitter.com/Co11Cfbco/status/1086668629058428929 One guy is like "YOU'RE JUST HIDING HIM FROM THE WORLD". It's twelve pages of murdering women! What the gently caress is your world!? https://www.supermanhomepage.com/tom-king-responds-to-complaints-about-walmart-superman-comic-book/ And holy poo poo man, Tom King's response sucks and is terrible. Midnight Voyager fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Apr 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 06:33
|
|
|
I’ll go to bat for King, but that comic’s egregious. Anyway, this isn’t the thread for that. Someone please tell me what action figure EVS is mutilating while not drawing Cyberfrog, soon-to-be smash hit
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 06:51
|
|
|
Midnight Voyager posted:And holy poo poo man, Tom King
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 07:08
|
|
|
hup posted:I’ll go to bat for King, but that comic’s egregious. Anyway, this isn’t the thread for that. Batman's Shameful Secret > ComicsGate/Industry Terribleness Thread - Read OP Carefully You sure about that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 07:51
|
|
|
Unless you want to get into a whole CIA tangent, which would be its own can of worms, I’m pretty sure it’s for the DC thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 08:00
|
|
Covok posted:The problem with all these hot takes about comic book sales is that we don't really have hard data. We know how many books have been shipped by diamond and that's it. We don't know how good digital sales are. We don't know how many books actually sell through to readers. And in the absence of data rumors prevail. The complete unwillingness to release or even collect that data speaks volumes to me.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 13:10
|
|
|
Haven't several creators said that digital sales make up the bulk of it?
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 13:45
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:The complete unwillingness to release or even collect that data speaks volumes to me. If only it were selling volumes to you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 13:54
|
|
|
It's widely believed that Marvek and DC wont release digital sales because it would drastically alter royalties to the talent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 13:55
|
|
|
Vandar posted:The problem is, who wants to go out of their way to a comic shop? Especially when comic shops don't have the best reputation in the world? The Walmart books see cancelled lmao
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:It's widely believed that Marvek and DC wont release digital sales because it would drastically alter royalties to the talent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 14:56
|
|
|
My information is about 18 months out of date but the retailer hivemind thinks they obscure everything so as to pay less. Denys Cowan chimed in and said he signed an agreement on digital that is a flat pay rate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 15:12
|
|
|
I'm not paying as much attention to any of this as I did a decade ago, but A big deal was made by Marvel and DC back in 2010 insisting that yes, they would be treating sales of digital comics the same as print copies in terms of royalties or what Marvel calls/called "incentives" but are essentially royalties. DC updated and revised their digital royalties program in 2014 in a way to close some loopholes (apparently if you did Digital First/Digital Only comics for them prior to 2014, which it doesn't look like Cowan did, that was a flat rate). I can't find any evidence of revisions of any Marvel contracts in the past nine years. The "not releasing sales figures to pay creators less" thing doesn't make sense to me because Marvel and DC literally never release sales figures, outside of the occasional press release saying that they've sold a million Watchmen collections or 500,000 Ms. Marvel Volume 1s or whatever else. Sales figures prior to 1997 when Diamond became an effective monopoly were almost entirely guesswork based on extrapolation, and they still are. The earliest way to try to gauge sales figures was from circulation figures companies were required to submit to the United States Postal Service if they sold the comic through a mail subscription service. Here's an example of it, for the Avengers. This is where another sort of misconception about the relative size/shrinking of comics sales happens, if you look at the chart you'll see that the Avengers had sales of 200,000+ pretty much every year of the 1970s and 1980s, way higher than in the 2000s, even when Bendis's New Avengers was hot. But in most years, over half of these comics would be returned to Marvel for a refund off of the newsstands, and the percentage of sell-through* continued to hover around 40-50% all the way up until 1993-1994 when the speculation boom was in full swing and the Direct Market really took over as the primary place that comics were sold (the newsstands slowly dying reflects an upward trend in the 10-15 years prior, but its final collapse and the speculator bubble coincided, because the more complicated ordering comics got, the less inclined a bookstore/newsstand was to bother with any of it). So Post Office Statements of Ownership are one way to try to figure out how comics sold, but only for books sold via subscription, which by the middle of the 1980s was smaller and smaller portion of the full industry. Some magazines would literally do mail-in retailer surveys where they're given sales figures from a couple of dozen stores and try to extrapolate things out from that, but that was obviously imperfect and depending on the sample size of stores you used in 1982 the results could vary wildly. Better extrapolation came from indexed sales charts from distributors, which started cropping up in mid-1980s from Capital City and Diamond. Here's an example of one of these.  This was still an insane amount of extrapolation, because even if you look at this and see that Amazing Spider-Man sold 42.1% of the number of copies that Secret Wars did, you'd have to: a) wait a year or so for Marvel to issue its SoO for Amazing Spider-Man in 1984 and see that the average paid circulation for ASM in 1984 was 261,064. b) Factor out that 43,295 (on average) copies a month were via subscription, leaving 217,769 sold to 'dealers'. c) Speculate on how many of those were sold via newsstands versus the direct market to index it properly to Secret Wars d) Either do even more estimates/averages to determine how well Amazing Spider-Man #261 sold compared to the other twelve issues released in 1984 e) Also try to figure out if the stores serviced by Capital City are ordering these books in the same proportions as the stores using the other twenty or so distributors that existed in the mid 1980s, though there were a few dominant ones that most people used to read these tea leaves. The best case scenario was one of the smaller companies that were on the charts just flat out saying something like "we sold 13, 000 copies of American Flagg last month through Diamond!" and then you have a single solid data point, but that sort of clear and concrete statement was incredibly rare. All of this got a lot simpler in 1997 when Diamond became a monopoly but even then, they still only release indexed sales figures. All of the sales charts and sales estimates people link to -- usually from Comichron and ICV2 -- are based on extrapolating these indexed numbers off of indie publishers who are willing to divulge the exact Diamond orders to them, mostly. All of this is to say that Marvel and DC don't release physical sales figures and never have, save for kind of doing so because of federal filing laws. The fact that Amazon (another company that really hates to give concrete sales figures unless legally required, and sometimes not even then) has an effective monopoly on digital comics sales means that "obscuring digital comic sales to pay fewer royalties" seems like a complicated explanation for a non-unique situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 17:26
|
|
|
It's weird and obnoxious how many separate areas in nerd culture don't really release reliable sales figures, and in so doing, turn actual market performance into this weird detective game where it's stupidly easy to massage the data for ideological purposes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
Svensken posted:Haven't several creators said that digital sales make up the bulk of it? I received my first royalty statement for a comic I worked on this week. It included sales figures for the entire year, and "digital sales" including comixology accounted for just under 10% of the total. This wasn't one of the big two. The company is a very small indie publisher, so my experience is certainly not typical. But pre-release/physical sales were easily the biggest chunk of our figures. Oh hey, by the way, here's a tip for anyone reading this thread that might be interested in doing comic work: Even if they offer royalties, and the company is great, get some $$$ up front. I learned that the hard way...
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 22:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 14:58 |
|
|
Spookyelectric posted:Oh hey, by the way, here's a tip for anyone reading this thread that might be interested in doing comic work: Even if they offer royalties, and the company is great, get some $$$ up front. I learned that the hard way... That's solid life advice for any big freelance project.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2019 22:54
|
|