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i just got to the part in meat where dirk asks me to read the other route of the story. This already took like an hour+ of reasonably paced reading. is it as good an idea as he suggests? anyway, this is cool and its crazy how much dirk is like doc scratch, but through multiple realities rather than just the one.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:23
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anyways, ive always had faith that this could be interesting, and it is. I'm glad I chose to read instead of recklessly hovering over the spoilers. The narrative shift in meat was very cool
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Apr 21, 2019 01:24
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Here's a basic Meat outline. Please forgive that I'm not a very good writer and am throwing away a lot of the nuance. Basically, don't read this, because the actual text is a lot better. - This is the path where John goes to fight Lord English - He recruits the Game-over Timeline characters and does the whole 'get trapped in the juju, end up at the Vriska / Meenah / Lord English fight' thing. - Alt-Rose and Alt-Dave die, but Davepetasprite nobly sacrifices themselves to basically throw a wounded Lord English into the black hole, like a big piece of garbage. - Alt-Jade is compelled by Alt-Calliope to fly into the black hole as well????? - Meanwhile, back on Earth C, all that 'consciousnesses converging into your ultimate self' thing is going really, really bad. - It turns out that Knowing Yourself really, really well lets you exert a certain amount of control over the narrative. Dirk has being doing the Splinters thing for a while, and he's basically gone loving nuts and decided that not only is he Godtier, but he's a literal god and reality needs to accept that. - He starts making changes to the story, subtle at first, but increasingly blatant, in order to drive it in the direction he wants to go. - He makes sure John is killed off, since his retcon powers would be a direct threat to him. - He's got some insane idea about merging with the other Ultimate Self characters, and his basically herding them off to a remote corner of space to do just that??? - And he's all about destroying their bonds with other people so that no one stands in his way while he does this. For example, he does the thing Hussie did to Caliborn where he narrates thoughts in head, in order to convince Kanaya that Rose doesn't need her anymore and she should just dump her. - He's also got some serious hangups about sex and among other things, reduces Jake mentally and emotionally until he's basically a fucktoy. Hello, bimboization trigger warning! D: - Alt-Calliope briefly tries to seize the narrative away from him, but Dirk pulls some dirty tricks and keeps her at bay until he's escaped with all his prisoners. - The ending implies that there's a whole new story brewing about going after Dirk and kicking his rear end. Basically, you know how Dirk / Dave embodied a bunch of Hussie's mannerisms, and then also retroactively also were responsible for a lot of Doc Scratch's mannerisms? It turns out a Dirk with unlimited narrative power is basically just as smug and capricious as Doc Scratch was. And he's the new bad guy.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:25
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ArfJason posted:anyways, ive always had faith that this could be interesting, and it is. I'm glad I chose to read instead of recklessly hovering over the spoilers. The narrative shift in meat was very cool Yeah, it's worth reading unspoiled. I feel like Meat especially becomes really upsetting and gripping, and not in the way I expected it to be.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:25
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Bobulus posted:Here's a basic Meat outline. Please forgive that I'm not a very good writer and am throwing away a lot of the nuance. Thank you, this is great and will tide me over until I can read it myself. If anyone can summarize Candy also that would be lovely.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:31
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Meat 37 is rough, loving hell. Just the loving biggest piece of poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:32
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Pierson posted:Meat 37 is rough, loving hell. Just the loving biggest piece of poo poo. He's the worst! Just awful!
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Apr 21, 2019 01:34
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Candy seems to be a whole bunch of fan theories shoved into one mess. I don't know if I like Meat or Candy better, but Meat has certainly left a dire taste in my mouth.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:35
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I guess it's not that I don't care about homestuck, but I really don't like what it became over time, and it's obvious it will never go back to being the sort of thing I like again. Everything behind spoilers in these posts just sounds insanely awful to me. I guess it's finally time to have a spine and just unfollow the thread.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:38
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Scarodactyl posted:I guess it's not that I don't care about homestuck, but I really don't like what it became over time, and it's obvious it will never go back to being the sort of thing I like again. Everything behind spoilers in these posts just sounds insanely awful to me. I guess it's finally time to have a spine and just unfollow the thread. 
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Apr 21, 2019 01:39
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I absolutely hated the first half of Candy, but you're supposed to hate it. I'm still trying to stuff my soul back into my body after reading all of this in one afternoon, but I can make a stab at a summary in a bit unless someone gets to it first.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:39
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So I'm off two days in a row next week, and I have no plans anyway, so what I'm getting from all of this is that I should read through Meat one day and Candy the other.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:41
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Color Printer posted:So I'm off two days in a row next week, and I have no plans anyway, so what I'm getting from all of this is that I should read through Meat one day and Candy the other. Meat first definitely seems better. I haven't finished Candy yet, though.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:42
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I mean. It's a step up from what we HAD, but the jury's still out on if it's any GOOD.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:44
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I think this is in candy: Someone please explain to me who Tavros Crocker and Vriska LaLonde are?
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Apr 21, 2019 01:44
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I think this is in candy: Someone please explain to me who Tavros Crocker and Vriska LaLonde are? Jane and Jake's human son Tavros, and Rose and Kanaya's adopted troll daughter Vriska (who is apparently a near clone of the Vriska we know and love due to troll breeding quirkery)
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Apr 21, 2019 01:47
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further vriskatime spoilers the exchange between her and Gamzee is interesting when you remember how he played Terezi during Game Over by feigning confusion right before beating her half to death. id be more inclined to see Vriska choking him to death as a bad thing if it didnt really come off as him loving with the wrong scourge sister in so many ways.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:51
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And it's not over. There's still more to come. I feel like I stand firmly astride Thesus' ship, yet every original part has been replaced with something wholly alien.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:53
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i think its p dece idk
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Apr 21, 2019 01:54
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I love it. I'm fully on board.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:57
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Clawtopsy posted:And it's not over. There's still more to come. The problem I am experiencing is that the dialogue is almost perfect, Hussie writes his characters just as well as they always have been, but the tone and content is so different, be it due to the framing as a fanfiction, or the content aging with the fanbase, that it's like all the Ship of Theseus parts, instead of being slowly replaced, have instead been reconfigured into a tractor. It's familiar, but it's not what I wanted, and I don't feel closure, I just feel tired. e: ah gently caress, I'm John Egbert
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Apr 21, 2019 01:57
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we're all john egbert
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Apr 21, 2019 02:00
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It's different, but also the same, and the ways in which it's different feel like a natural evolution. And, as noted, the dialogue is pitch perfect, and seeing these characters breathe again is so great. Also, a lot of characters who never got much of a chance to talk with each other in the comic's actual ending get tonnes of material here. John gets a lot to do, and doesn't end up feeling peripheral. Dave and Karkat's relationship is fully explored, and it's really funny, but also touching. Even Jane and Jake, who were pretty much sidelined in the original ending, have a lot of further development (albeit not all of it flattering).
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Apr 21, 2019 02:02
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Meat was breathtaking and I loving hate Dirk Strider in a way that I never did Caliborn. I am 100% on board for all of it just to eventually see them get their loving rear end kicked. I started at 10pm and it's 2am now. Candy tomorrow, I don't know how it could be more soul-crushing than Meat. Android Blues posted:It's different, but also the same, and the ways in which it's different feel like a natural evolution. And, as noted, the dialogue is pitch perfect, and seeing these characters breathe again is so great.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:04
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Only really just started, but I will say the framing of the players' post-game world existing in fan fiction as a meta-narrative way of escaping the doomed causal loop of the main story, leading to a paradox in the main continuity that precipitates a crisis where John must be sent back into canon, is at least a pretty interesting and genuinely Homestuck-y development. At the very least it's nice to get some confirmation of what the ending was actually supposed to convey. I wasn't much of a fan of this interpretation of the ending at the time, as it meant side-stepping and rendering moot what the story itself framed as its climax, and Hussie looking to explore the implications of this is an interesting hook. Though I will say, Rose cutting to the chase and laying out canon and non-canon feels almost too direct? She's just talking to the audience about how canon and fanfiction work and why the ending being incomplete is a conceptual threat to their happily-ever-after, while John once again stands around confused. If this story's just carrying out Rose's instructions and explanations as a dutiful closing of the loop of canon to prevent a paradox that unravels continuity (then apparently getting stranded or killed, as Rose heavily telegraphs), that sounds a little dull and honestly doesn't actually need to be told (in the real sense of whether you should follow through with writing a story or not, not the cosmological sense Rose means).
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Apr 21, 2019 02:08
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Scarodactyl posted:I guess it's not that I don't care about homestuck, but I really don't like what it became over time, and it's obvious it will never go back to being the sort of thing I like again. Everything behind spoilers in these posts just sounds insanely awful to me. I guess it's finally time to have a spine and just unfollow the thread. I agree entirely with this and am sad that I had hope of it going back to what I loved instead of diving deeper off of the hellcliff it all sounds dire, for all the death and blood and evil of homestuck earlier on, pre-scratch, it was at least ultimately hopeful and triumphant, ending with everyone escaping, doing good, dying nobly or with pathos, or surviving to fight another day Zutaten posted:The problem I am experiencing is that the dialogue is almost perfect, Hussie writes his characters just as well as they always have been, but the tone and content is so different, be it due to the framing as a fanfiction, or the content aging with the fanbase, that it's like all the Ship of Theseus parts, instead of being slowly replaced, have instead been reconfigured into a tractor. this too homestuck has released me, I didn't release homestuck godspeed ...I'm still totally reading the spoilers because I can't help myself, hahaha
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Apr 21, 2019 02:11
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paranoid randroid posted:i think its p dece idk Android Blues posted:I love it. I'm fully on board. im between these. I feel the metatextual element of tying relevancy to how far removed events are from the original text, in our real world's time and from an authorial stand point (this is not hussie's text alone anymore, as it wasn't at the very start, and as it wasn't when community members contributed directly to the main text). It's pretty interesting and while rose's explanation did feel very "Talking to the audience" i thought it was at least a nice reflection of everything the phenomenon that was the comic and its repercussions meant. that said, while i like the narratological back and forth that I just got to in meat (those who read it know exactly what i mean), and while homestuck was always about metatextual elements interacting with the text, as with audience participation, incorporation of popular fan theories, fan contributions, and characters talking about the comics canonicity (and all the funny 4th wall breaks), the difference in tone feels real loving grim and a bit unwarranted perhaps. I'm not entirely sure, I want to gather my thoughts some more but I'm only through part 30 of meat, and like 2 pages into candy. Theres a lot id like to say but im bad at words and even worse at thought edit: granted, I do feel the evolution IS somewhat natural. The comic had always been about predestination and fighting narration, trying to take back narratological and thus canonical authorship from characters like doc scratch, entities like paradox space, and now, the bastard rear end in a top hat. ArfJason fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 02:21
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Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. Meat being dark as gently caress seemed tonally unusual for Homestuck.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:25
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Clawtopsy posted:Yeah, I can understand that sentiment. Meat being dark as gently caress seemed tonally unusual for Homestuck. yeah but i kinda guess that makes sense when you consider that ____Dirk ____ is NOT Hussie. A very good fascimile for someone whose head is always everywhere, but the tone of their story, while having the comedic beats, is still filtered through their perspective, as alt calliope very well points out, and lets us know that when john is speaking to terezi, those are HIS thoughts because she doesn't really give a poo poo about influencing them, making her a more reliable narratological entity. unfortunately she still seems to have some sort of filter, given how she does not allow jane to let go of the trickster pop
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Apr 21, 2019 02:28
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GeneX posted:I agree entirely with this and am sad that I had hope of it going back to what I loved instead of diving deeper off of the hellcliff This is kinda how i feel. I just want everyone to end up relatively ok and happy. And it's looking more and more like that's not going to be the case which is fine, but not really what I was hoping for. Especially with things looking to end worse off for everyone than the "John has depression and everyone drifts away" ending. So is Jade and Jane bad now too due to Dirk being an insane dickbag?
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Apr 21, 2019 02:32
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I guess my issue is I don't think Homestuck should have aged with the fanbase to quite this degree. There's some really dire content in both branches of the epilogue, and while it's a logical evolution and yes, even earned in many ways, part of me was kind of hoping that this would remind me OF Homestuck of 10 years ago, not that Homestuck WAS 10 years ago. And yes I'm aware that the comic proper also had some dire content and that's part of why we loved it as edgy teens and 20-somethings but it wasn't nearly as monstrous as this. I didn't hate it, I actually enjoyed it in several ways, but it wasn't what I wanted. Too much dramatic meat, too much emotional candy, not enough comforting potatoes. edit: To add something, the renewed activity in this very thread has been more enjoyable to me than the actual epilogue. You guys are my potatoes. Zutaten fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 02:35
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Reading Dave wondering if Obama would've fixed the economy is doing weird things to my brain
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Apr 21, 2019 02:36
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Obama actually being in the thing really dates the thing doesn't it lmao
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Apr 21, 2019 02:37
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i'm just going to post the twitter thread where i had homestuck thoughts because i'm lazy https://twitter.com/President_Ark/status/1119767510017105922
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Apr 21, 2019 02:38
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surely it would've taken more effort for you to type out that explanation and copy and paste the tweet than to just copy and paste the tweet content tho methinks you just want us to see your twitter!
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Apr 21, 2019 02:39
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ArfJason posted:yeah but i kinda guess that makes sense when you consider that ____Dirk ____ is NOT Hussie. A very good fascimile for someone whose head is always everywhere, but the tone of their story, while having the comedic beats, is still filtered through their perspective, as alt calliope very well points out, and lets us know that when john is speaking to terezi, those are HIS thoughts because she doesn't really give a poo poo about influencing them, making her a more reliable narratological entity. unfortunately she still seems to have some sort of filter, given how she does not allow jane to let go of the trickster pop Yeah, she's not as perfectly neutral as she thinks she is - I counted three times where she interferes with people's thought processes somehow, plus the fact that she needs a mute, unconscious Jade as her anchor is pretty messed up - but definitely she's the lesser of two evils compared to Dirk, who micromanages everything his friends think and feel and leads them down terrifying blind alleys in the process.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:43
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fool, i will never read a tweet
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Apr 21, 2019 02:43
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oh god there's gerrymandering I thought that was a joke
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Apr 21, 2019 02:47
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Dolash posted:oh god there's gerrymandering I thought that was a joke Every single content warning is in this thing. Especially Clown.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:48
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Thank you, this is great and will tide me over until I can read it myself. Oh lord, okay, lemme give this a shot. This is going to sound fake. - John decides to stay, Roxy is overjoyed and they being to date, and some point they get married and have a kid named Harry Anderson - They let Gamzee out of the box to begin his "wicked sick redemption arc" - Dirk senses a great disturbance and hangs himself after telling Jane to cancel everything (her plans to run for president) -- there's an awkward funeral - Rose's headaches immediately vanish compared to Meat, in which they get steadily worse until she succumbs to Dirk and becomes ultimate - Jade tries to seduce Karkat and Dave, they find the corpse of game over Jade that got sucked into the black hole in Meat, there's an awkward funeral for her too except Roxy goes into labor during this one. Aradia and Sollux are also there! Also, the Calliope that makes the black hole possesses the dead Jade body. Aradia and Sollux hang out with her for the rest of the story. - Rose and Kanaya start helping with the raising of baby trolls, eventually they raise a baby Vriska and Jane has a baby Tavros - Dave and Karkat can't come to their feelings about each other and splinter -- Jade and Dave hook up. She can't have babies because she has a dog penis (this is canon). Jade and Dave get married. - Jade-Calliope is helping protect the world from the Prince, as she explains to Aradia many times -- in particular, one part near the end, she explains the insidious nature of controlling the story, leading to Aradia remarking how "wow you weren't very invested in the story you were trying to get me invested in! what a mean prank!" (hi hussie) - Jane proceeds to basically sleep with everyone for some reason with Gamzee and Jake as the main ones???? - There's a timeskip -- at this point, Crocker Corp is basically the Illuminati in secret control of the government. She pushes for a hardline stance on troll reproduction, leading Karkat to become the commander of a troll liberation army. Meenah shows up after having stolen the ring of life from John in Meat and joins Karkat's army and becomes his paramour or something after he bosses her around. - John splinters away from Roxy after suffering from lingering feelings that he's made some sort of colossal mistake, that he's irrevocably created a fake world, where everyone was meant to be and do something else. He suffers a lot over it. - Vriska falls out of the sky after being hit with a shard of spacetime in Meat. She's pissed and wants to go back to see what happened with Lord English. - Jane has basically become just as bad as HIC -- dad gets killed trying to protect the puppet president, blown to pieces by the troll liberation army so Jane can't bring him back. She throws Gamzee out and declares she will eradicate every single troll that isn't loyal to her. - Vriska hatefucks Gamzee then murders him. She meets Rose's daughter Vriska while on top of Gamzee's corpse. - Okay, this is... this going to be bad. - Dave... goes into a hatch while exploring jpg statues of liberty and finds a... recreation of the oval office. there he encounters a hologram of president obama generated from a ghost imprint of brain. obama explains that he respects dave a lot and has been waiting for him. obama explains that grandpa harley brought him and a bunch of other kids into the medium when he was a kid in hawaii. there he met dirk. it's implied dirk and obama hosed. dave talks about being gay and never having gotten over karkat. obama explains he went through a lot of the same stuff. obama then, with dave's consent, murders dave by phasing a hand through his brain. dave's soul then integrates into a waiting robot and becomes ultimate dave in davebot form. - Jade-Calliope is waiting for Lord English to fall through the black hole in order to eat him (she literally eats him piece by piece in the end of Meat). - Dirk is on a ship in the middle of space while forcing Rose, now in robot form, to do his laundry. It's implied that Jade-Calliope is almost there to meet with him. Candy is really weird. And also bad?
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