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PsychoInternetHawk
Apr 4, 2011

Perhaps, if one wishes to remain an individual in the midst of the teeming multitudes, one must make oneself grotesque.
Grimey Drawer

morallyobjected posted:

I initially wondered about this too, but I watched the ending again and I don't think it's that clear. she puts her hand over her heart, not her stomach, and she just wears very bulky clothing

It's been a while since i got that ending but i think in earlier dialog she refers to becoming a womb for him or something? Its all magic so who knows but theres definitely supposed to be some kind of birth analogy that exists as a counterpart to the dragon bloods endless death motif.

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A Cup of Ramen
Oct 16, 2012

Hey thread I was told I'd be able to give Emma some sake by a friend of mine but as of right now the only person I can give a drink to is the Sculptor.

Is there a certain point in the story I need to be at or is my game being weird?

I have Ashina, Unrefined and Dragonspring Sake plus some Monkey booze? Does she just have really picky tastes? :confused:

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Depends on what you've recently been told to do by the characters. If you can give Emma gourd seeds, you should also be able to give her any of the sake you're lugging around. If you can only talk to her and there's no sub-menu, you should go do what she wants you to do first.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



for whatever reason she won’t take sake while she’s visiting the dilapidated shrine the second time after the start of the game. i have some dragonspring that i know i’ve already given to the sculptor and isshin but there’s no option to give it to her.

imhotep
Nov 16, 2009

REDBAR INTENSIFIES
YOU THINK I HAVEN'T USED THE drat UMBRELLA HE JUST WAITS UNTIL IT FOLDS BACK IN TO HIT ME INSTEAD

sorry, just got super close by standing there and deflecting, then running a bit and got a better handle on his spear phase.. still, it's just nonsense, like either one of those phases can be fine or each can be relentless. I deflect a lot of his attacks in his first stage (Geni is hilariously easy... like I wonder if it was to make Isshin so stupidly hard, or idk, but he's way harder on the roof), but even deflecting can't do enough posture damage, or leave an opening that isn't going to leave you more vulnerable.. The best method I've found to basically get through phase 1 and 2 with little to no damage is phase one, ichimonji and bait the mikiri by running back, or running forward if you see that he's going to do the mortal draw, and ichi him out of it. Then for Isshin, pop an ako's and just repeatedly Shadow Rush him and he'll be done in no time. But, unless you somehow have time to use the tanto, this leaves you with basically no emblems in phase 3 to use the umbrella. And I honestly didn't see a time when the umbrella would've been more helpful, but I'm just not good at using it. It's slower than a deflect, which I can do pretty reliably, it's getting in the hits inbetween that gets me hit, so for me it felt like I had to deploy the umbrella earlier, thus guessing that his combo is going to turn out a certain way, although it certainly is safer than deflecting the gun shots. But that's never hosed me up when I'm standing in front of him, or it does do posture damage, or will do the like DBZ slide on your feet posture break from a deflect, which makes me panic cause the distance is weird and you take a moment to recover. Idk there's just so many variables, and it's not one thing that kills me, it's like a poor judgment and a half second mistake which costs literally half a health bar or more, and then you try to heal and that's basically a feat in itself, you have to put space in between you and Isshin and that can get you caught in a combo, and then if you drink and he slowly walks into the radius that triggers his "oh gently caress no" *slaps gourd out of your hand and slaps your face simultaneously* for one gourd's worth of damage at least.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Tip: Fireworks stun human enemies for almost exactly long enough to squeeze in a gourd chug or sugar usage. If you're having trouble healing in the middle of the fight, just play it safe and spend some emblems doing a stun just to get the heal over with.

edit: Also, the umbrella isn't really slower than sword deflects if you use the first upgrade tier version (I think it's called the Magnet Umbrella?), that version of the tool lets you hold it out with one button and spin it to auto-deflect at the cost of an emblem per spin. The umbrella spin has WAY more deflect frames than your sword and it comes out just as fast if you've already got the umbrella itself deployed.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 21, 2019

Control Volume
Dec 31, 2008

Imhotep posted:

YOU THINK I HAVEN'T USED THE drat UMBRELLA HE JUST WAITS UNTIL IT FOLDS BACK IN TO HIT ME INSTEAD

You should wait to fold it back in

imhotep
Nov 16, 2009

REDBAR INTENSIFIES
I keep forgetting the stupid upgraded versions are worse, I guess I was fighting so many mini bosses and like Owl 2 forever that I forgot about prosthetics during boss fights. Like the purple firecrackers have a terribly long wind up, and when they go off I can't see and sometimes they've somehow missed.. I'll try the non Lotus umbrella, I was just thinking that the follow up attack has fire damage so it would be worthwhile, and didn't think it was different from the others in terms of speed and whatnot. But idk, it does fold in, but it's because I panic and deploy it too early, or when he starts his combo, and then it folds back in when it takes too many hits, which is like 2 hits fewer than necessary to outlast his combo, and I could unfold it and attack before but it's risky, and I feel like it's slow, but again, maybe it isn't or maybe it is on that umbrella.. Idk. I'm making better progress though, I was seriously just trying different strategies every time, and eventually got Genichiro down, and Isshin's first phase without much trouble, but that's only if I abuse Shadowrush or whatever. I have gotten better at like dodging his ichimonji and then going in for hits, deflecting at the weird rhythm he hits you at, but I guess it just throws me off that there's basically never a moment in between hits where you can hit him, and I understand that this isn't the time to hit him, but sometimes it's clutch and gets you to the next stage.. The only time he's vulnerable is after he does a perilous attack or if his AI is weird and he sorta drifts away or like, seems like he's day dreaming before he starts his combo, but if you try basically any other time except for when he whiffs a perilous, he'll deflect and then follow up quickly, every time, and there's not many bosses in any of From's games like this.

Woozy
Jan 3, 2006

quote:

Except prosthetics, which i haven't tried besides the shuriken and fireworks, as they seem to work on everything as basic tools and not all or nothing strats.

Pull up, man.

Woozy
Jan 3, 2006
Actually, let me revise my initial proscription: Just use the drat Sabimaru if you can't get his posture damage to stabilize. It's his Megaman boss weakness and he has no answer for it in any phase.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I would focus less on trying to actually damage the boss' health bar and more on keeping the pressure up in general. If you back off, the boss will close the gap immediately to punish you. Even if you swing and it bounces off of his weapon (yellow sparks), it stops him from attacking you and thus the effort isn't wasted. Attack until he deflects you (the orange sparks), then get ready to deflect some of his, and any time he jumps back run straight at him and do not stop unless you need to stun him and heal.

Temaukel
Mar 28, 2010

by Nyc_Tattoo
I DID IT! gently caress YOU DoH YOURE FUKNI DEAD, gently caress YOUUUU

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT
Man I wish Judgement Cut End One Mind was better. At least it seems to do pretty decent posture damage in an AoE, I managed to cut up some of those ministry double sword dudes with it

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



yeah i'm at the point where i feel either all the end tier combat arts needs to be more powerful/useful to justify the spirit emblem cost or they need to not consume emblems to justify how they're not particularly more effective or useful than just sticking to the basic attack combo (or even, earlier combat arts that don't require emblems to use)

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

PsychoInternetHawk posted:

It's been a while since i got that ending but i think in earlier dialog she refers to becoming a womb for him or something? Its all magic so who knows but theres definitely supposed to be some kind of birth analogy that exists as a counterpart to the dragon bloods endless death motif.

She calls herself a cradle, but yeah pretty suggestive.

Skypie
Sep 28, 2008
I hope I can play this game again by the end of the week. :negative:

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


After I get the dragon tears Emma pointedly refuses to accept sake. Lighten up and have a drink lady

cargo cult
Aug 28, 2008

by Reene

World War Mammories posted:

I guess I'll spoil this

basically there are eight or nine monk mummies sitting around in a couple buildings throughout the zone, essentially stationary and nonaggressive. if you disturb them they will sprout an eight-foot centipede that tries to murder you. you don't need to kill or even interact with any of them at all to beat the game - I think one early on is in front of a gourd seed but nothing more valuable - and they can't chase you. beyond this, there are, uh... three or four bosses that have a giant centipede inside them, but you never fight an actual centipede skittering around as a boss, just ones wearing humanoid flesh suits that you rip out and stab during the deathblow. also, there are two minibosses with "centipede" in the name, but neither are actually centipedes in any way, they're just weird voldo lookalikes.

also, if you look very carefully at the ground in the temple's main hall, there are realistically-sized centipedes skittering around, but they're just cosmetic effects rather than enemies


in all honesty I think you'll be fine

VVV correct
thanks for this lol

A Cup of Ramen
Oct 16, 2012

CJacobs posted:

Depends on what you've recently been told to do by the characters. If you can give Emma gourd seeds, you should also be able to give her any of the sake you're lugging around. If you can only talk to her and there's no sub-menu, you should go do what she wants you to do first.

I've been told by Emma that the power of resurrection comes from Kuro's dragon heritage and that I'll be revived repeatedly but she doesn't think the power of resurrection comes without a cost so I should let her know if I notice any more changes.

Cowcaster posted:

for whatever reason she won’t take sake while she’s visiting the dilapidated shrine the second time after the start of the game. i have some dragonspring that i know i’ve already given to the sculptor and isshin but there’s no option to give it to her.

She leaves the shrine at some point???

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
You're clearly still very nearly at the start of the game, so I recommend that you just give it some time. If something about an NPC doesn't quite work as people describe it, chances are good that you just aren't at a point yet where you can do it.

imweasel09
May 26, 2014


Blaziken386 posted:

I dunno if they have a specific weakness, TBH, I just smack 'em around.

Also - go to the Great Serpent Shrine right now to fight a time-limited miniboss, otherwise you won't be able to get all the prayer beads. (across the bridge near the Old Grave idol)

Fwiw I never went there and the bead eventually popped up in the box.

Dr Snofeld
Apr 30, 2009

Cowcaster posted:

yeah i'm at the point where i feel either all the end tier combat arts needs to be more powerful/useful to justify the spirit emblem cost or they need to not consume emblems to justify how they're not particularly more effective or useful than just sticking to the basic attack combo (or even, earlier combat arts that don't require emblems to use)

Even then it'd be hard to compete with Double Ichimonji. That thing's amazing. I've used Mortal Draw a couple of fights but otherwise it's all Ichimonji all the time.

Kild
Apr 24, 2010

When the Divine Child refers to being a cradle I think she means more like a medium? She seems very heavily based on an Itako. She becomes blind and cold (Rice->Fine Snow) after getting the kami snake parts - which is for a marriage ritual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itako

A Cup of Ramen
Oct 16, 2012

Cardiovorax posted:

You're clearly still very nearly at the start of the game, so I recommend that you just give it some time. If something about an NPC doesn't quite work as people describe it, chances are good that you just aren't at a point yet where you can do it.

I just beat O'rin so I feel like I've played a decent amount of time but ok I'll just keep rolling till Emma decides to take a sip I guess.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

A Cup of Ramen posted:

I just beat O'rin so I feel like I've played a decent amount of time but ok I'll just keep rolling till Emma decides to take a sip I guess.

You kind of have but you've done so in a way that doesn't progress the story and thus won't trigger changes in NPC behavior.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

A Cup of Ramen posted:

I just beat O'rin so I feel like I've played a decent amount of time but ok I'll just keep rolling till Emma decides to take a sip I guess.
O...kay, you apparently have. Sorry, with how surprised you were to hear about Emma leaving (which happens fairly early if someone doesn't specifically take the side-path you seemingly did) it sounded like you were much less far into the game than you are. The first time she leaves happens after the Genichiro boss fight at the top of Ashina, which is basically an entirely different direction, but also something you literally cannot miss.

A Cup of Ramen
Oct 16, 2012

Regy Rusty posted:

You kind of have but you've done so in a way that doesn't progress the story and thus won't trigger changes in NPC behavior.


Cardiovorax posted:

O...kay, you apparently have. Sorry, with how surprised you were to hear about Emma leaving (which happens fairly early if someone doesn't specifically take the side-path you seemingly did) it sounded like you were much less far into the game than you are. The first time she leaves happens after the Genichiro boss fight at the top of Ashina, which is basically an entirely different direction, but also something you literally cannot miss.

Ah alright I found the idol's for Senpou Temple and the one in the castle after climbing the roofs, I backtracked after that and explored around a bit more which resulted in my running into fuckin Seven Spears and some Samurai talking about Shamisen music so I wanted to find out what was up with that and just made my way into the well after spending a bit fighting the camera against the lone swordsman in there. :argh:

so if I just ended up doing things in a weird order that's good to know, I'll go check out Ashina more next.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Finally, finally beat the game.

Owl (Father) and Demon of Hate were both hell that took several hours of tries to clear but I got Isshin in less than ten shots and drat what a cool chill way to end up the game. Isshin himself was a surprisingly likable and positive example of From's 'old king' stock character and just wrapping up the game with a relatively short no-bullshit samurai fight between two masters was incredibly satisfying, definitely From's best endboss to date imo.

cargo cult
Aug 28, 2008

by Reene
I'm guessing jumping through the roof isn't the most effective way to start the long arm fight? it seems like there are adds to clear first and potentially a way to stealth one of his death blows?

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

cargo cult posted:

I'm guessing jumping through the roof isn't the most effective way to start the long arm fight? it seems like there are adds to clear first and potentially a way to stealth one of his death blows?

Enter through the temple door, kill the dudes on the rafters, get the stealth deathblow then kite him around the room as you work on clearing the adds on the ground.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh
By the way those centipede dudes count as "crawling" enemies and you can always aerial deathblow them. Bosses excluded ofc.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

A Cup of Ramen posted:

so if I just ended up doing things in a weird order that's good to know, I'll go check out Ashina more next.
Yeah you basically did the equivalent of doing Quelaag before the Gargoyles. Just keep going in the general direction of up and you can't miss it.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

multijoe posted:

Enter through the temple door, kill the dudes on the rafters, get the stealth deathblow then kite him around the room as you work on clearing the adds on the ground.

Or just kill the adds then grapple out, wait for him to de-aggro, and come back for the first deathblow. Or don't bother because he's really easy.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



some endgame geography questions: am i correct in understanding there's quite a few sculptor's idols that are just straight up inaccessible to be reactivated now, due to various paths and locations being blocked off?

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Cowcaster posted:

some endgame geography questions: am i correct in understanding there's quite a few sculptor's idols that are just straight up inaccessible to be reactivated now, due to various paths and locations being blocked off?

there's a few in outskirts (I think 3?) that are completely inaccessible; the others can be reactivated if you explore

make sure you do so thoroughly, there's a couple of minibosses and an optional boss that aren't on the critical path to the final boss at all

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012

Cowcaster posted:

some endgame geography questions: am i correct in understanding there's quite a few sculptor's idols that are just straight up inaccessible to be reactivated now, due to various paths and locations being blocked off?

ones you can't get to are:

Ashina Outskirts
Gate Path
the one right after the snake by the castle

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

Is there a consensus on whether the skills that allow you to carry more spirit emblems are worth it? I only took the one you need to on the way to Breath of Life.

morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012

a kitten posted:

Is there a consensus on whether the skills that allow you to carry more spirit emblems are worth it? I only took the one you need to on the way to Breath of Life.

some people find that the extra emblems make a difference. it's 1-5 extra tool uses (if you also get the ones from bosses), so it may depend on how heavily you use those. there have definitely been times when I've gotten down to 0 from 20

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk
it felt like i've been playing this entire game just to brainwash that samurai commander guy into helping me double team that other seven spears rear end in a top hat

What are the pros and cons on the Lazulite upgrades?I think I'll only be able to afford one or two per play-through so I'd like the resources to be well spent. Although something tells me with the way the last few real boss battles have gone, they won't really be of any use until I start new game plus and start bullying early game enemies again...

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RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

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