|
redneck nazgul posted:I don't know about the coding feasibility of "new brands" or "cursed things work like this", but I feel like there's enough design space to come up with "potentially useful but deadly enough that you don't want to use it unless you're feeling lucky" solutions. I view it like eating the purple: Not optimal by any stretch of the means, but can pay off in a gamble. If it's not worth it from the developer standpoint, so be it. PMush Perfect posted:I agree that, like, +0 or -1 cursed with a *Thing would be "more interesting" without being especially harder. Like a temporary malmutate but easier to remove and totally optional to take on. And hell, even then, if I found a cursed +0 Broad Axe on D1 with *Rage, I'd probably be tempted to still use it. You know, an actually interesting decision.
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 21:20 |
|
|
Haifisch posted:This doesn't sound much better, just slightly less annoying than having a -4 cursed weapon welded to you until you find remove curse and switch to a not-going-to-get-you-killed weapon. It's More Interesting, but not a fun kind of More Interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
at that point you're not really making cursed weapons so much as making dangerous randarts, though
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 20:48
|
|
|
Dunno, isn't that the meaning of your average cursed weapon in mythology? Like Muramasa's blades, which are supposed to be almost as good as it gets but so bloodthirsty they drive you crazy? Nothing wrong with that. I'd gladly lose the "sticky poo poo weapon" type of cursed weapon if the new curse mechanic was something interesting like that instead. They could still be sticky, if you'd like.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
neither the ID subgame nor the curse subgame is particularly fun imo and if both got axed with no replacement I wouldn't shed a single tear
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
So how do you cast a spell as a permabuff?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:09
|
|
|
Mordekai posted:So how do you cast a spell as a permabuff? if a spell is a permabuff, it can't be cast any other way
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Mordekai posted:So how do you cast a spell as a permabuff? You just cast it. Whether it is or isn't is inherent to the spell itself, not something you can choose cheetah7071 posted:neither the ID subgame nor the curse subgame is particularly fun imo and if both got axed with no replacement I wouldn't shed a single tear I agree with this, mostly Cardiovorax posted:Dunno, isn't that the meaning of your average cursed weapon in mythology? Like Muramasa's blades, which are supposed to be almost as good as it gets but so bloodthirsty they drive you crazy? Nothing wrong with that. I'd gladly lose the "sticky poo poo weapon" type of cursed weapon if the new curse mechanic was something interesting like that instead. They could still be sticky, if you'd like. There are a some unrands like this, that are pretty strong but have downsides that make them dangerous (Trog's Wrath is the first that comes to mind) and while in theory they are interesting options, in practice they are traps that are too dangerous to use unless you have something to mitigate the downside (clarity, in this case). someone awful. fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:12
|
|
|
So when I cast battlesphere it is permanent?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:16
|
|
|
The problem is that identification only serves to make the very early game harder when it doesn't need to be, then you can pretty safely ID everything and it only comes into play for randarts for the remaining 80% of the game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:18
|
|
|
someone awful. posted:There are a some unrands like this, that are pretty strong but have downsides that make them dangerous (Trog's Wrath is the first that comes to mind) and while in theory they are interesting options, in practice they are traps that are too dangerous to use unless you have something to mitigate the downside (clarity, in this case).
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
I'm not sure Qazlal is actually good, but it is amusing for every floor to turn into insane hellfights as things die randomly and come to check out the giant exploding storm that's always surrounding you. Edit: Also I forgot how much I hate the shoals compared to the swamp. Gorelab fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:36
|
|
|
Cardiovorax posted:Sure, I get that, I just don't quite follow why you think that this makes it a worse alternative to the current curse system. So maybe the stuff wouldn't be useful in the long term, but neither are cursed weapons as they are. In the early game, when options are few and far between? I would seriously consider using a powerful quickblade of BOINGGG. And by the middle game, no one cares about curses at all anymore, except for Ashenzari followers, so it's not like that would seriously change anything except to make the early game a bit more varied and interesting. I mean I guess the simple answer is that it just seems like wasted effort to change a cursed item system I do my best not to interact with into a different cursed item system I'd go out of my way to not interact with v  vLike I'm already hella wary of wield-IDing in case of Distortion brand; adding even more things like that would just make me never wield an unidentified enchanted weapon, ever someone awful. fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:43
|
|
|
I think my main issue is that the punishment for recklessness shouldn't be flavorless tedium, which -SL/-AC equip is; they make you just flat weaker, and unlike *Tele or -Stealth don't actually change how the game plays, don't create any new situations, don't make you think of specific things that'd not be worth doing otherwise, but might be worth the risk now (like looking for resist to cover the --Fr Cursed +5 Sabre has), nothing. If there can't be consensus on if there's ways of making cursed weapons more interesting, I'd still vote for removing them altogether. If we were making them more meaningful (as in, with actual upsides to balance off the hazards/downsides), we might actually make Remove Curse rarer (yes, rebalance Ashen if we do) and make the primary means of getting rid of the curse bit more involved, like making each cursed weapon ask for blood of a very specific (but perhaps perfectly generic) mook that's 3 floors deeper and it'd tell you, like "This +5 Longsword of *Rage won't let go of you until you avenge its previous holder by slaying a particular 2 Headed Ogre on D:8"
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
someone awful. posted:I mean I guess the simple answer is that it just seems like wasted effort to change a cursed item system I do my best not to interact with into a different cursed item system I'd go out of my way to not interact with v The thing from my perspective is simply that curses are fairly deeply integrated into the gameplay, if only in the form of Ashenzari - who would basically become 90+% obsolete in his entirety if the ID/curse mechanic was removed. Since something has to be done with it and I think the suggestion was good, it would be a waste of a good idea to not at least consider it. Unless we want to roll Ash back out of the game and get rid of ID/curse entirely, but I think it's not enough of an active nuisance to deserve that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 21:56
|
|
|
Teal posted:My issue with cursed poo poo early on that -AP and -Slay is just super boring and your punishment for id-eq a lovely one is "ha, the game will be SLOW AND TEDIOUS if you don't give up". this is exactly the sort of change that would get a long-winded refusal from trunk due to concerns about the theoretical optimal man, which means it should be implemented
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 23:16
|
|
|
Teal posted:I think my main issue is that the punishment for recklessness shouldn't be flavorless tedium It's a simple risk and reward punishment mechanic. It creates situations that are not tedious at all, in fact suddenly fights turn into life and death struggles. Suddenly you are pulling back frilled lizards into corridors. My last game I was wearing a cursed robe and found fire dragon scales on D3. The pressure to play well until I found rcurse was intense. I'm not opposed to say taking out half the cursed items and replacing say a -2 axe with a +2 axe with an undesirable ego. *slow, *confuse, *corr, -tele, *tele, minus to stats, all those are cool. Contam and Drain seem a little mean as contam can straight up kill you and drain can take your starting skills down to 0. fool_of_sound posted:The problem is that identification only serves to make the very early game harder when it doesn't need to be, then you can pretty safely ID everything and it only comes into play for randarts for the remaining 80% of the game. The landscape of my early game is often radically different when I get a glut of IDs or when I am starved for them. This creates a lot of variance in the early game that interacts with other elements of the RNG that are also more profound in the early game. It creates situations of feast and famine with remove curse and ID scrolls which generate novelty, it forces interesting choices with meaningful results (do I ID that amulet or that 5 stack of potions, do I waste an ID on this broad axe or just put it on because I've only found 2 IDs in 5 level), and yes it's an integral part of what makes the first levels challenging. It also often comes into play if you are using a gifting diety or have poor RNG. I had 2 IDs left so I put on a ring that turned out to be *drain, made that level of Vaults interesting. It's even an interesting part of running Ziggurats. The game start is supposed to be a time of exploration and discovery, where you don't know what anything is and you're lost and alone in this strange dungeon. Taking this away makes things more boring and gives the player fewer choices. There's no anticipation, no moment of suspense, when you find a new runed weapon or armor and wonder what it might be. I don't mind that people find it annoying and I understand. I'd be fine with adding a scholar class or something that has a ton of IDs, starting gear is easy to do, maybe if we make a new charms book that could be the book start. Starting with Ash is another option although that would probably be unbalancing for many races, gnolls particularly. Araganzar fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Apr 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
quote:Contam and Drain seem a little mean as contam can straight up kill you and drain can take your starting skills down to 0.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2019 23:33
|
|
|
hey should we steal this setup https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/d21de941a6dd3a5a2e8e7db5b89d120f795ede6a/crawl-ref/source/dat/species
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 00:41
|
|
|
ogresque posted:hey should we steal this setup https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/d21de941a6dd3a5a2e8e7db5b89d120f795ede6a/crawl-ref/source/dat/species I'm stealing it when I finally finish with features and play catch up on bugfixes from trunk, because it's going to be the way future trunk species are formatted and I would prefer not to have to hand copy them over to an older implementation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 00:55
|
|
|
In the main branch how was which zealot classes remain and which are pruned chosen anyways?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 01:01
|
|
|
Gorelab posted:In the main branch how was which zealot classes remain and which are pruned chosen anyways? Berserker stayed for new players, Chaos Knight stayed as a way to verify players who go Xom can prove they stayed Xom the whole game (or at least had to survive low-level wrath of Xom, which is the same thing), and Abyss Knight stayed since starting in the Abyss is unique and Lugonu would otherwise have little to no worshippers over Jiyva as a non-Temple god. All the others were pruned for the reason that you could just worship them in Temple and starting with them just meant one less decision/milestone to make. The same case could be made for removing Berserker as well, but the dev team overrules the pro players on that solely so new players have something easy and familiar to understand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 01:12
|
|
|
RIP. Got a helmet in my crate as a demonspawn archaeologist, and I have horns.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 02:36
|
|
|
That's the problem of generating the artifact in the box prior to it actually being opened. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 03:02
|
|
|
So worth abandoning shields for this?pre:the +12 triple crossbow "Akoblip" {speed, *Corrode rN+ MR+ Int+4}
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 05:29
|
|
|
Anything with corrode is untrustworthy. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 05:30
|
|
|
Oh man...+12 speed triple crossbow is pretty fancy and I don't think I could resist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 07:12
|
|
|
It's like throwing a giant spiked club from the edge of LOS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 07:16
|
|
|
Araganzar posted:So worth abandoning shields for this? I'd abandon anything for this
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 07:18
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:It's like throwing a giant spiked club from the edge of LOS. With PP and archery it was like throwing a slightly faster +28/+16 giant spiked club. Barachian so LOS is basically orbital laser. Jon Joe posted:I'd abandon anything for this Barachi are terrible but turns out you can win one if you get Wyrmbane and a bazooka. Absolutely the best ranged weapon I've ever seen. pre:araganzar the Sniper (Barachi Archaeologist) Turns: 60351, Time: 03:34:12
Health: 210/230 AC: 50 Str: 25 XL: 27
Magic: 27/27 EV: 15 Int: 32 God: Yredelemnul [******]
Gold: 4051 SH: 3 Dex: 9 Spells: 15/50 levels left
rFire + . . SeeInvis + b - +12 triple crossbow "Akoblip" {speed, *Corrode rN+ MR+ Int+4}
rCold + + . Gourm . (shield currently unavailable)
rNeg + + + Faith . C - +10 plate armour "Vesmaov" {rF+ Str+3}
rPois . Spirit . L - +2 hat
rElec + Reflect + I - +5 cloak "Bopatie" {rN+ MR+ Int+6}
rCorr . Harm . X - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
MR +++++ Rnd*Rage + s - +2 pair of boots
Stlth .......... T - amulet of Kyohem {Reflect rC++ rN+ MR+ SH+3 Stlth-}
HPRegen 1.48/turn q - ring of Lilacs {Wiz rElec Int+4 Dex-2}
MPRegen 0.20/turn l - ring of Kumobb {rElec rC- MR+ SInv Stlth+}
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 08:01
|
|
|
portal projectile basically turns it into the remote for an orbital weapons platform
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 08:37
|
|
|
I'm sold on gooncrawl. I really am. I actually like trunk and I have played a lot since .21, but this is really fun! Thanks Floodkiller.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 09:09
|
|
|
Dammit, I got my FDCj to the orb run and then got ambushed by a pan lord who appeared right next to me. Orb delay on teleport sealed my doom. Dying in the late game always sucks so much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
It's crazy how rElec is basically a requirement as far as I'm concerned. As someone who just lost a great character on Elf:2, the damage you take without it is staggeringly high. And after having a run go tits up on me because of it, I think *corrode is probably the worst malus you can get on an artifact.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
Deep Elf Annihiliator can fire off 3d20 Lightning bolts which is on par with other enemies Fireball/Bolt of Fire in that same HD range. Deep Elf Mage are only throwing out 3d17 versions of elemental spells and Deep Elf Sorceror's are capable of 3d18 Corrosive Bolts. It's just that the damage can be swingy. The first example can damage you anywhere from 3 to 60 damage, unresisted versus 1 to 20, resisted (the same as two pips of fire/cold resistance).
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
You will get swarmed in Crawl, almost certainly, and if you’re a ranged character with a corroding weapon, it will kill you.
Bogart fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 23, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 18:50
|
|
|
Arivia posted:Dammit, I got my FDCj to the orb run and then got ambushed by a pan lord who appeared right next to me. Orb delay on teleport sealed my doom. I wasn't screwing around when I said you need Disjunction for the Orb run. With delayed tport, no cblink, and low HP FD are not really geared for a tough orb run without escape. Don't take skills past 26 (really past 24) without a good reason. The last few levels are quite expensive. Skipping level 26 to 27 in either Conjurations or Spellcasting would have let you hit level 16 in both Necromancy and Translocations which would have given you access to Disjunction and Borgnor's Revivification. You can also stop your Dodging training once you top 31 EV or so. Make sure you examine every Pan Lord. See what they are vulnerable too and what they have high resists against. If they aren't fast just haste up and walk away. If they are in Melee range or are very fast Disjunct and walk away or Disjunct and fog to gain distance until Tport kicks in. Only attack if you have distance and a resist advantage. Wearing the Fire ring and Harm was what killed you, I think. You were fighting a Pan Lord with Glaciate and you had absolutely no cold resist and harm so you were taking maybe 2-3 times the damage you should have been. I know people love harm for casters but I think it's basically an extended suicide pact. You also want at least 12-15 evocation for Zot and the orb run for staff of energy. You run the risk of getting caught with your pants down on the orb run when you have 2 spawns close together otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 20:07
|
|
|
Araganzar posted:Barachi are terrible Admittedly, they're only truly good when they're Cheibriados worshippers because the downsides are covered by one-another's upsides (At-will controlled blink, slouch, good enough stats to use all those great aptitudes at the same time).
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 20:18
|
|
|
Barachi is one of the easier races I've played. Their high skill aptitudes in just about anything you care to do more than makes up for being slow, and hop is Really Good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 18, 2024 21:20 |
|
|
Is it true that malmutate now only drains stats?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2019 22:09
|
|