|
Lord_Magmar posted:It is baffling and frustrating that they introduced an entirely new character to have Junko abuse and destroy instead of it being her picking apart Class 76 with their weaknesses and fears and failures, the set-up is there. Peko/Fuyuhiko's thing around his dead sister driving a wedge in the class, Hajime maybe being a friend to them who disappears without a trace only for a monster with his face to murder the Student Council. There's plenty of things already in the narrative that Junko could've bent towards driving these people to despair and instead it's a brainwashing Anime. Heck Mahiru is literally the perfect target for Junko's particular form of lovely mindgames and they use brainwashing instead. This is not a Junko who could sell her self to the Warriors of Hope as a cool big sis to save them, she'd try and hurt them too quickly. Nthing the complains about how they only handle Junko well for the Ryota scene, and echoing my disappointment that this wasn't how Class 76 was handled, because the games heavily implied that was the case. The entire DR2 cast had some sort of skeleton in their closet or weakness that could be exploited, from the obvious to the not-so-obvious, like Nekomaru's terminal illness or Kazuichi growing up poor and his casual admittance about getting beat as a kid. I had such high hopes for the anime to show Junko dripping poison in their ears, one drop at a time, and instead we get an anime about brainwashing anime. 
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 17:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
Junko: Hey Ryota, be super despairing cos I'm gonna gently caress with all your classmates will ya? Ryota: *has never even been to class once and doesn't actually know more than two of these people*
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 18:34
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:And loving Mukuro- Jesus Christ, poor Mukuro. This is not at all the way she was characterized in the games; this is some character assassination in retrospect, which is the most unforgivable kind. And of course, the entire DR2 cast besides Hajime gets short shrift too. It should have been the entire class' slow descent into despair, not 10 episodes of happy(ish) shenanigans plus 3 episodes of... what we got. (I am ignoring the Future side, which has its own problems of introducing an all new, disposable cast and ignoring that we already had two whole games worth of good characters to play around with.) Oh, right, I've been meaning to comment on this. Remember how Mukuro's free time events characterize her as participating in Junko's shenanigans but growing less enamored with them over time? Forget about that! Now she just has a weird, incestuous fascination with her sister!  Lord_Magmar posted:Also somehow alive Chiaki is more of a perfect person then the AI made specifically to help bring her classmates hope and healthy emotional growth. Chiaki being a real person who died isn't terrible, her being this incredibly perfect person who can rally her classmates is just bizarre. MarquiseMindfang posted:Junko: Hey Ryota, be super despairing cos I'm gonna gently caress with all your classmates will ya? Also this. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 10, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 18:42
|
|
|
You know, I'd probably find myself agreeing with a fair amount of this stuff you're posting if I really cared to think about all the dumb poo poo going on, but like I've established in the UDG part of the LP, I'm a serious "warts and all" guy that just goes with the flow and accepts a whole lot of horseshit if the overall picture is still entertaining enough. The only thing I find myself really caring about is Chiaki being really badly executed, since I liked Chiaki a lot in DR2 (her being my #3 favorite character overall), and Despair Side not having more of the Junko we got in that one Ryota scene, though that's probably just because it reminds me of Monaca and her mindbreaking. I didn't even care about them pulling a complete 180 on Monaca's character right the gently caress out of nowhere that makes no sense with her character being the way it was established, which by all means should've pissed me the gently caress off, but it was fun, so it flies. Flies into space. The rest of the time, I just really don't give a poo poo and instead amuse myself with completely inconsequential crap. Like this scene here. It's like five seconds, it has literally zero bearing on anything, and yet, it's a standout moment to me because it's just so amusing to watch Mukuro set up a projection screen by basically appearing out of the ceiling and then disappearing back into the ceiling like a ninja. I might have a problem, but I ultimately consider it to be benign.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 21:29
|
|
|
TheMcD posted:I might have a problem, but I ultimately consider it to be benign. Replace ninja Mukuro presentation with Komaeda whipping out a gun and this is pretty much me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
The only thing really bugs me is the only reason all of this got to even this point is that every single person in the anime is absolutely a pile of trash with no between their ears to rub together.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2019 23:05
|
|
|
Deadmeat5150 posted:The only thing really bugs me is the only reason all of this got to even this point is that every single person in the anime is absolutely a pile of trash with no between their ears to rub together. That's always been the case from the moment the expanded on anything concerning the people who ran Hopes Peak.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2019 00:00
|
|
|
Bifauxnen posted:Replace ninja Mukuro presentation with Komaeda whipping out a gun and this is pretty much me. And both of these things are good, they just could exist in an anime where Junko was better handled and Class 76 were actually party to their own fall instead of stumbling into it. Heck Junko’s Valley Girl thing would have been a pretty good cover personality for her to use at school to hide her crazed ideals and plans even. The Anime has good moments throughout but the overall picture is disappointing because it retroactively makes all 3 games less interesting and meaningful. I said it before, Future is boring but Despair is actively damaging the overall narrative of the series by weakening or ignoring several plot points for how the Tragedy could have occurred and replacing it with a brainwash anime and a Junko having almost no real hand in planning it beyond a vague notion she wants it to happen.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
So to summarise, this anime can be and is pretty entertaining, but it also kind of sucks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2019 03:36
|
|
 Back on the Future Side, Makoto is flashing back to DR1, back when he fell into the garbage pit and Kyoko came down to help him back out. You know, good memories, all that stuff.  To help with the fact that Kyoko is loving dead. They can't understand why Kyoko would have kept her forbidden action a secret to them, when it should be obvious that she was trying to prevent Makoto and the gang running around like headless chickens trying to save her when that wouldn't help them get out of their current predicament as much as clear, focused investigating would.  Anyway, we get a repeat from last episode with Kyosuke using the intercom to shittalk Makoto's idea of hope and call for the final showdown between them. Not sure why we need this, actually. Anyway, Makoto gets ready to fight and we get the opening.  After that, Makoto starts heading out. Ryota then asks him how he can just brush aside the fact that Kyoko is dead.  Makoto then explains that he isn't brushing it off - he adored Kyoko, she saved his life multiple times, and he recognizes that Kyoko kept her forbidden action secret to protect Makoto from himself. Now that she's dead, the last thing he can do for her is carry on with the last bit of hope she bestowed upon him.  Aoi tells him she believes in him, and Makoto tells the other two to stay here. He then heads out alone.  Back out in the halls, Makoto starts crying again for a bit, but catches himself and carries on.  While walking, Makoto runs into the two halves of Miayabot, which causes his knees to start trembling, but again, he catches himself and carries on, remembering what Kyoko told him about not turning his back on hope.  Meanwhile, Kyosuke sits alone in the broadcast room, clutching some sort of paper or something like that in his hand.  We then get another flashback. We find Chisa and Kyosuke at a playground that has a ton of what can be assumed to be dead bodies of children, with Chisa crying about how she tried to help but couldn't save them.  She asks Kyosuke what they can do to end this - what they can do to annihilate despair.  And back in the present, Kyosuke answers that she can leave that to him.   We then get the two internally monologuing about their ideas of hope - Makoto thinking about how he now carries the hope of everybody else in him, and Kyosuke thinking about how every potential host for despair has to be destroyed, even if that leaves him as the last human alive. Kyosuke says he will save Makoto. Makoto says he will stop Kyosuke.  Makoto then arrives at the broadcast room. The two face off, with Makoto asking Kyosuke to help him end this game, and Kyosuke continuing to talk about how Makoto's words mean nothing.  Kyosuke then skips straight to the murder part of the itinerary as Makoto bails.   Makoto runs through a door, which stops Kyosuke in his tracks.  He then crashes straight through the glass.  This brings him to a hallway with a suspicious open door. "I wonder which door he wants me to choose", Kyosuke muses.  Meanwhile, Aoi is listening in on the fight through the door to their room while Ryota mopes about how Makoto is so strong and how he is so weak. Looks like he still hasn't really gotten over that whole thing from way back when with Junko.  And as Ryota mopes, Aoi notices something. There's a little book laying under Kyoko's arm!  Meanwhile, as Kyosuke enters that room with the open door, Makoto has set up a trap in it. He set his jacket on fire...  ...which sets off the sprinkler, causing a puddle to build up in the room...  ...and then Makoto uses some broken cables to electrocute the puddle.  However, Makoto then gets shot straight in the knee by some sort of needle.  Looks like Kyosuke pilfered that thing from Kazuo.  We then find that Kyosuke dodged that trap by hanging from a cable on the ceiling and using the heat from his fire sword thing to evaporate the water. The fire thing does break from the water, however. Kyosuke then finds the room to be empty, but there's a trail of blood.  Makoto is slowly walking out in the hallway, obviously hindered by basically being kneecapped.  He then spots the ultimate weapon of hope - a fire extinguisher.   Kyosuke continues to follow the trail of blood.  Makoto lies in wait with the fire exinguisher, but hasn't noticed that he's leaving a trail showing Kyosuke exactly where he's hiding. So, when Kyosuke intentionally turns his back, causing Makoto to try and attack...  ...it ends badly.  Makoto then tries to use the fire extinguisher instead, but it doesn't work. I think we've seen this before. Turns out fire extinguishers are only good for throwing in this universe.  So of course that's what Makoto tries next, though Kyosuke easily parries it with his sword. Kyosuke makes a remark about Makoto's lucky streak having run its course.   And of course, that means his luck kicks right back in with the fire extinguisher releasing all of its contents because of being hit by a sword and turning into a projectile that hits Kyosuke right in the back. The fire extinguisher then also makes for convenient fog for Makoto to hide from Kyosuke in...   ...allowing Makoto to catch Kyosuke by surprise and tackle him.  Kyosuke must be feeling some real deja vu here, being sent crashing down to the lower floor while fighting with someone, and while he survives the fall fairly well, it leaves his opponent rather worse for wear, with Makoto being pretty much unable to move after that fall.  Kyosuke swings...  ...and stops.  And it is here that Makoto's master plan comes together. Turns out they've been here before - this is the place Great Gozu elbow dropped down to way back when when Kyosuke was pursuing Makoto, Aoi and Gozu.  Back then, Makoto shut the door on Kyosuke, and Kyosuke didn't follow.  And when Kyosuke cornered Makoto in the broadcast room, he broke the glass to get in. Makoto has figured out Kyosuke's forbidden action...  ...it's opening doors. And that's the reason Kyosuke can't kill Makoto - he'd need to go through a door to get out, so he needs Makoto to open it for him. I mean, we don't really see the room to confirm this, but hey, let's just believe him.  And with that, Makoto finally has Kyosuke exactly where he wants him - now, they can just talk.  Except, well, Kyosuke still isn't much for talking. He demands Makoto admit when he was converted to despair, which Makoto denies. Kyosuke tosses Makoto around a bit, then chokes him. Makoto just manages to sputter out that they shouldn't be at odds and that they could beat this game if they worked as a team, which Kyosuke just scoffs at, talks about how Makoto doesn't get it despite the fact that somebody he loved died upholding his ideals and then talks some more about how despair must be eradicated.  Makoto counters that by saying that Kyosuke has tunnel vision - all he's talking about is despair, hope doesn't even factor into anything in his ideals.  Kyosuke then brings up that thing that Kazuo told him that we weren't allowed to hear. Now, what was the big secret? Who is the attacker?  "There's more than one. We're all of us responsible. The entire Foundation. In a manner of speaking, every single member is the attacker. Me, Naegi, Sakakura, even Yukizome. None of us are exempt. How does it feel, friend? Even the love of your life was tainted. Not one soul was left uncorrupted by despair. Does that change your tactic? Will you still do everything in your power to annihilate it?" And thus, Kyosuke was set on his path.  He then talks about how even Chisa ended up giving in to despair, and that he was a fool for not noticing. He found some photos on her corpse. He remembered how when they found the bodies of those children, Chisa asked who could do such a thing. Well, turns out, Chisa had the answer all along, and she's telling Kyosuke with these photos.  Yep.  So that leaves Kyosuke wondering when Chisa was set on this path. Uh, about an episode ago, pal. Not too long ago, really! Anyway, Kyosuke declares that every last piece of despair must be destroyed, every last memory must be turned to ash.  That sets Makoto off, with him saying that regardless of what she did, she was still a person, she still meant something to Kyosuke, and she is still worth something.  That then sets Kyosuke off, who grabs Makoto and beats the crap out of him while shouting that he knows nothing repeatedly.  But Makoto does know. He knows that even if Kyoko would have fallen to despair, even if he would have had to resort to killing her, he would still cherish her as a person, as somebody he couldn't have lived without.   That then brings Kyosuke back to flashback city as he remembers all of the pleasant memories he had with Chisa.  And that snaps him out of it. He sets Makoto back down and lets out a mighty scream of anguish.  He sits down and wonders where they all went so wrong.  But before they can get too philosophical about their current situation, Aoi and Ryota show up!  Aoi then declares that the killing is over - she knows who the attacker is, it's all in this book!   DUN DUN DUNNN- well, I mean, we kinda already know it's "everyone" in some way thanks to what Kazuo told us. Still, I guess the logistical side of it does need some explaining. Anyway, we're ending on that cliffhanger.  However, we do get another post-credits stinger. A bunch of boats are still near Jabberwock Island.  But then, a smaller ship comes by and sails away from the island, past the other ships. Intrigue! So, next time, back on the Despair Side... it all goes to hell. Yeah, that about sums it up. What the gently caress just happened?: Makoto is determined to end this conflict with Kyosuke, so he heads out to... talk at him, I guess. Kyosuke, meanwhile, has other ideas and tries to murder the poo poo out of Makoto. Fighting ensues, and through some luck, Makoto manages to trap Kyosuke in a room where he'd have to open a door to get out, and, well, turns out opening doors is Kyosuke's forbidden action. Kyosuke reveals that Kazuo told him that everybody from the Foundation is the attacker, basically, which is what set Kyosuke on his murderous rampage. He says that everything despair-related must be completely and utterly annihilated down to the memories he has of them, but Makoto counters by saying that even if somebody falls to despair and has to be killed, the memories should still be kept and cherished, which causes Kyosuke to remember his good times with Chisa and make him snap out of it. To end the episode, Aoi shows up and says she knows who the attacker is from a book Kyoko had. Also, in the stinger, a boat sails away from Jabberwock.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 00:04
|
|
|
Opening doors is probably the action that's best hinted at through the series, and is also... a really simple and clever one?
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 00:26
|
|
|
Makoto luring Kyosuke into a trap so he can tell him to stop being such a goober is nice. Shame it took him almost the whole series to actually do something. I actually kind of like this episode, though. Which, I think, is the last time I can say this about Future. It's also a good thing that Aoi and Ryota found out about the book late enough for Makoto's plan to work, otherwise Kyosuke could have just murdered all three of them given that they open the only door in the area.  Anyway, that's the last we see of Punished Munakata. It was a fun ride while it lasted, you crazy edgelord. There was also this really good shot of Makoto early on in the episode. 
Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Apr 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 01:13
|
|
|
Makoto runs through a door, which stops Kyosuke in his tracks. In an episode centered around the forbidden actions of the cast this is a comically big mistake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 02:17
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:
Not really. He’s running from a room into a room, not in the halls.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 02:20
|
|
|
Yeah, it would be kind of stupid for Makoto to engage in this plan if he was completely prohibited from running, since, y'know, there's a guy with a big fuckoff sword that ain't afraid to use it after him. Closing the door gives him enough time to put some distance between him and Kyosuke even if he has to walk through the halls. Though that was an impressive amount of prep for what seemed to be a pretty small amount of time - but again, like I said, trying to think about the chronological order of the individual actions taken is a path to madness.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 12:11
|
|
|
Honestly this is the best action scene so far, and a lot of it is we get to see Makoto actually "fight" for his beliefs in a way he hasn't before, instead of flat out just running and hiding.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 14:09
|
|
|
Well that was a cool episode! It's really great that the series ends on such a bittersweet yet triumphant moment. Thread over, let's all go home.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2019 16:18
|
|
 Alright, time for everything to go to hell. Uh, anyway, we're back on the Despair Side, and we're following Chiaki, who is following Chisa down some really long hallway.  Chiaki wonders if they're going the right way, since they've been walking for a while now, but Chisa just says they'll be there soon, and asks Chiaki to cheer up, since the others wouldn't want to see their class rep so preoccupied.  Meanwhile, this is happening outside. Seems to be that quite a few Reverse Course students have fallen to Juzo's abilities, but...  ...turns out there were just too many. Junko laments that she didn't even get an opportunity to exploit Juzo's achilles heel. She also says "sadface". Dub Junko is special.  Junko suddenly goes all thespian on us, talking about how Juzo fell victim a tragic love that cannot be spoken, that the object of his affection may never know the truth, and that to add insult to injury, the apple of his eye is enamored with his friend. Well, audience, can you guess what Junko is alluding to? Indeed, Juzo's object of affection is...  ...Chisa Yukizome! ...wait, hang on, Junko's just kidding with that. It's actually...  ...Kyosuke Munakata! Yep!  While Juzo's reaction is all the confirmation one would need, Junko also has some pictures of Juzo staring wistfully at a framed picture of Kyosuke in his room.  And because Junko is Junko, she couldn't resist adding some personal touches too. So, yeah, Juzo's gay for Kyosuke. This is something you maybe could've figured from Juzo's behavior - he always acted a little bit more on edge than you'd think whenever Chisa would talk about how she's in love with Kyosuke, you know, making it seem like Juzo's got skin in this game as well, and it doesn't seem like his target is Chisa. Also, looking at the poo poo Juzo pulls in Future Side for Kyosuke's sake, you kind of can figure that there's something more than just regular friendship there.  So, as you might expect, Junko is blackmailing Juzo with this information, threatening to reveal it to Kyosuke. She makes Juzo plead with her to not reveal it, then she suggests a deal - she doesn't release the information, and in exchange, Juzo - who was sent by Kyosuke to find out what Junko was up to, remember - will return and lie to Kyosuke, saying that Junko is innocent. Juzo protests at first, but eventually agrees.  Junko then shoves her heel into his head and makes him add a "please" to that for good measure. She then walks off, saying that she's going to sink her fangs into the Main Course.  And all that's left is Juzo, who is pissed as hell. We have another answer as to who can remotely control our boy Juzo.  Meanwhile, the rest of the class is walking along a similar nondescript hallway, with Mikan catching up to them again after staying behind to shove Chiaki in that secret passage. Mikan says that Chiaki twisted her ankle and is now resting in a room they found nearby until she feels like she can put weight on it again. The class buys it. Soda complains about there being a room where people can lay down while he's been carrying Nagito all this time, to which Teruteru replies that he'd gladly carry Nagito, since he's well within his strike zone.  Before he can elaborate on that, he gets a door shoved in his face.   And Soda freaks the gently caress out over the mysterious lights in the door.  But it's just Gundam and Nekomaru, who've caught up with the rest of the group thanks to Mikan telling them where the rest are. Boy, that Mikan, sure looking out for everybody's well-being and totally not setting up something horrible.  Moving on, the group finds a weird looking door.  Mikan pushes a button to make it open, and...  ...we're back with the two Chis.  They also find themselves approaching such a door.  Inside, there's an elevator!  Chisa opens the elevator, then gets sentimental with Chiaki, talking about how the two of them were working to keep the class together, how great Chiaki is with having kept the class together while Chisa was transferred, all that stuff. She ends with saying that Chiaki has done more for her friends than she'll ever know.  And then she tosses her into the elevator.  And, well, turns out Chisa was, uh, not playing with a full deck of cards. She says that with all that, Chiaki was the obvious choice.   We're on an express elevator to hell, going down!  When Chiaki arrives at the bottom, she is met with a screen showing Junko. Junko explains that Chisa is the way she is because she watched the despair video, and explains Chisa's mental situation as "a fifteen car pile-up on her synaptic superhighway", which is a marvelous turn of phrase.  However, Junko's got a bit of a problem. See, the despair video is pretty good, but it still needs a little bit of that extra je ne sai quois. And Chiaki's going to provide it!  Meanwhile, the rest of the class finds themselves in... hrm. That looks familiar.  And Nagito wakes up to tell the rest of the class that this is a trap just in time for it to be entirely too late.  The screens turn on and the class is treated to Junko announcing something. What is she announcing? That...   ...IT'S PUNISHMENT TIME!  Alright. Welcome to the third and final "Jesus Christ this is hosed" scene - Chiaki's execution. You could probably guess something like this was coming. Chiaki had to get taken out of the picture somehow for DR2 to work, and it was probably clear there was going to be some sort of horrific event that turns the rest of the class to despair, and, well, given how much they beat us over the head with the fact that Chiaki was the glue holding the class together... So, what is this execution? Well, fitting with Chiaki being the Ultimate Gamer, she's going through a dungeon filled with traps, and she's already taken some damage. Junko constantly gives commentary about how Chiaki is doing, and... well, that's about it.  From this point on, it's basically torture porn, albeit of the fairly weak variety. This is just several minutes of Chiaki getting seriously hosed up. Stepping into a spike trap, getting shot in the eye with a projectile, the list goes on.  All the while, the rest of the class finds they can't move and can't help but stare at what's happening.  And Chiaki just gets more and more hosed up while Junko talks about hope and despair and all that jazz.  The rest of the class is horrified...  ...but hey, Mikan's totally on board.  But then! It seems like Chiaki might make it!  She opens the door!  Chisa is there to greet her!     ...and that's that. Rest in... well, pieces, Chiaki. I really disliked the way you were written in this show, but man, you didn't deserve to go out like that. Only Haiji deserves to go out like that. But that brings me to an interesting opinion of mine about this execution. I actually think it's the best in the entirety of Danganronpa. See, here's what I think works very much in favor of this: It, more than any other, gives the victim just enough feeling of hope before they're struck down, giving them the greatest immediate fall from hope to despair. It's also a lot longer than the usual execution, giving a lot more time for the despair of the situation to really sink in before the hope. There's not a lot of other executions in the entire series that do that, and I feel like it's a real shame, because that should be the important part! This entire series just keeps banging on about hope and despair, but the executions, where the victim should be feeling the greatest despair, never gives the victim just a glimpse of the hope they need before crushing their spirit even harder. Thinking about it, I believe there is only one other execution that gives that feeling of going from despair into hope before crashing directly back into despair, and, well, it's in DRV3, so we can't talk about it. You'll know which one it is if you know the executions from that game, anyway. To bring the talk to a different subject, I've read multiple times about these alternate executions that had some art attached to them. I have no idea where they're from and I can't remember where I last saw them. They were a bunch of different execution scenarios for I think the entire DR1 and DR2 cast, even those that didn't get executed. And they hit that hope-despair downfall a lot more, if I remember. All I remember was that Kiyotaka's execution had him finding himself at some sort of parade where he'd apparently won an election, but then he suddenly gets JFK'd. Chiaki's execution was some sort of board game that had death tiles, and right at the end, after avoiding those tiles all the time, all the tiles turn into death tiles, making it impossible to avoid them. Sayaka's execution had her performing at a concert with some sort of machine displaying the audience response, and if it fell below a certain point, she'd get killed, but when the response never falls, Monokuma just smashes the machine up and she gets killed anyway. Does anybody know what I'm talking about here?  Anyway, back with the class, they're, uh, not dealing very well. In fact, they seem kinda hosed.  Nagito's also gone a bit more dingy than he already is. He talks about Chiaki being a stepping stone to hope now and how this is the despair their talents are meant to overcome, but in the end, all he can do is laugh.  And with that, we have our future Remnants of Despair.  However, with them having left the area, we still linger on Chiaki's corpse... or rather, her not-corpse. Yes, turns out she's still alive, somehow! And there's somebody in the room with her.  It's Izuru!  Chiaki begs him to remember his past as Hajime, hoping that there is still something of him left in there, that if he just tries, he can remember something. So, very obviously in horrendous pain and basically physically incapable of doing so, Chiaki still tries to force herself to stand up, failing at doing so, all the while Izuru just stares in his usual gormless fashion. Chiaki says that she regrets not being able to help him, which Izuru of course can't understand because wanting to dedicate yourself to somebody else even as you're dying isn't logical.  In the end, Chiaki says she's not ready to die, she still had so many things to do, and her classmates need her. Then, she asks Izuru for just one more game. Just one more round.  And then, she truly breathes her last.  Izuru grabs her hairpin...  ...and it seems like there's a part of him that still remembers. And that's the episode. Our class has officially been set on the path of despair, and Chiaki's death flag has finally triggered. Next time, on the Future Side, we solve the mystery of the attacker, and a whole bunch of dead people show up again! What the gently caress just happened?: Junko blackmails Juzo into covering up her involvement with all the poo poo going on by threatening to reveal that Juzo is in love with Kyosuke. Chisa throws Chiaki into an elevator that brings her into a dungeon with a bunch of deathtraps while the rest of the class is forced to watch. Chiaki then gets horrendously executed by the traps as the rest of the class falls into utter despair. Finally, Izuru, after speaking with the dying Chiaki, seems to remember something from his past as Hajime and cries over Chiaki's death.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2019 22:38
|
|
|
Torture porn is how I would also describe it, yes. Did not care for it. Not sure how to feel about Juzo's decision. On one hand, being outed like that would undoubtedly be a very unpleasant thing, to put it mildly. On the other hand, stopping mass murder. Then again, knowing how things turn out is probably influencing my opinion a bit. I've seen some of those alternate execution art pieces. I think they're on Pixiv. Also, as a final note, I believe Kodaka abandoned Twitter for a week after this episode given he had also killed off Kyoko a week prior and people were grumpy about that, too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
So yeah, this execution is "good" but by god is it hosed up and obnoxious they made Chiaki the most perfect person ever specifically for this execution to work the way it does. Also we're back to Junko not really beating or breaking Class 77-B but instead something contrived happening for her to take control of all of them in one move. It's just baffling that this is the way they went with Despair side, instead of an actual study of how Junko screwed with their heads until they broke or anything actually interesting beyond well, a bunch of fun scenes followed by a lot of hosed up torture porn.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 13:55
|
|
|
Yeah, the thing I hate most about both sides of this anime is how it made everything depend on just straight-up brainwashing. Especially when DR2 the game implied just the opposite - you could easily imagine this class being more messed up than the DR1 cast, and Junko getting her hooks into them with her own manipulation. Hell, Komaeda didn't even need any brainwashing!
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 17:43
|
|
|
Am I correct in assuming that Juzo accepting Junko's terms here is the reason why Kyosuke stabbed him in Side Future? I don't think it's ever confirmed, but that's what makes the most sense to me.Bifauxnen posted:Yeah, the thing I hate most about both sides of this anime is how it made everything depend on just straight-up brainwashing. Especially when DR2 the game implied just the opposite - you could easily imagine this class being more messed up than the DR1 cast, and Junko getting her hooks into them with her own manipulation. At the start of their terrible LP of Ultra Despair Girls, Woolie and Liam speculated that Junko had to have a heretofore unknown ace up her sleeve in order to enlist millions of people around the globe to the cause of despair so quickly. Shortly thereafter, somewhere else in the world, a monkey's finger curled...
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 18:05
|
|
|
You know, I think the marketing for Despair Side has just been going at it all wrong. Despair Side isn't an anime about how the DR2 class fell to despair. It's an anime about how the Incident came to be. Pretty much everything that happens apart from the early super-slice-of-life episodes has some sort of connection to making the Incident happen. Ryota and his brainwashing anime, Hajime and his path towards becoming Izuru, Junko setting up the revolt of the Reserve Course, all that stuff. That would make it make more sense that there's a lot of other stuff going on and they're not really focusing on the DR2 cast. Mind, that still doesn't make it *good*, but it at least makes the focus make a bit more sense, and it would explain why they didn't spend the entire time having Junko slowly seduce all the class members to despair one by one. Even if that would've made for a better show. Solitair posted:Am I correct in assuming that Juzo accepting Junko's terms here is the reason why Kyosuke stabbed him in Side Future? I don't think it's ever confirmed, but that's what makes the most sense to me. No, I don't believe that's the case. Note that Juzo and Kyosuke meeting in that episode was the first time they met since Kyosuke learned "the truth" from Kazuo. Kyosuke shanked Juzo because he thought he, like everybody else, had fallen to despair because of what Kazuo said. Hobgoblin2099 posted:I've seen some of those alternate execution art pieces. I think they're on Pixiv. Huh. I guess I'll have to take a look for them there. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 18, 2019 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
Solitair posted:Am I correct in assuming that Juzo accepting Junko's terms here is the reason why Kyosuke stabbed him in Side Future? I don't think it's ever confirmed, but that's what makes the most sense to me. No. Kyosuke stabbed Juzo because Tengan's vague statement that everyone is the attacker made him believe he had no allies left in the Future Foundation. Especially since Chisa was a sleeper agent the whole time. TheMcD posted:Huh. I guess I'll have to take a look for them there. Here you go.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 20:43
|
|
|
Knowing this scene was coming is one reason why Dangan Ronpa as a premise just died to me. I didnt even care about the character, I just dont like torture porn for the sake of torture porn (which ...it probably always is).
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2019 22:46
|
|
|
I mean, the first execution within the first game is a kid getting chained down, drawn, and stoned to death all while begging in terror. I was really glad when the tone shifted with the next one to mundo butter and that stuck for the rest of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 01:43
|
|
|
I feel like Leon's execution was designed for Doubt while the rest were designed for Danganronpa.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:I feel like Leon's execution was designed for Doubt while the rest were designed for Danganronpa. Doubt? What the heck is that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 02:07
|
|
|
DISTRUST, not Doubt. The beta version of Danganronpa. Doubt is some short murder mystery manga.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 02:42
|
|
|
I like Leon's execution more than any other, since it's almost the only one that had any real emotional impact for me. In other chapters I might certainly be sad for the character who's dying, but the emotional weight tends to be carried more by their last dialogue before the execution. The goofy poo poo certainly suits Monokuma and all, but I really wonder sometimes what the world of Dangan Ronpa could've been like if the executions had carried on in that more realistically gruesome way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 03:14
|
|
|
Leon's being so realistically gruesome also makes sense for the story involved, because we also shortly before it see the Heavenly Spear Gugnir turbo murder Junko(Mukuro) and it's just as violent. It's setting up the stakes and then letting the tension fall down a little so that the player is always a little wary of super horrific killings coming up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 03:18
|
|
Bifauxnen posted:I like Leon's execution more than any other, since it's almost the only one that had any real emotional impact for me. In other chapters I might certainly be sad for the character who's dying, but the emotional weight tends to be carried more by their last dialogue before the execution. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy that wishes we'd have gotten DISTRUST rather than Danganronpa and thinks the executions in the games could've taken some cues from this one we've just seen. We're still in a world where the majority of the world gets completely and utterly hosed up in quite horrific riots and wars thanks to despair, with the piles of bodies in Towa City showing us what the result of that looks like. Juxtaposing that with having Mikan blast off into space on a giant needle just kind of messes with my head a bit. Like, have the goofiness with Monokuma and all that, but I feel like the deaths, be they of the victims or the killers, should be appropriately horrifying. Have them be the thing that drags the (in-universe) audience back into the reality of the world they're in. Leon's and Mukuro's deaths did that fairly well, but then they just kinda stopped doing it.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2019 15:01
|
|
|
Yeah, I also like it when executions are harsh instead of goofy bullshit like Mondo or Mikan's. Also not sure where I got that idea about Kyosuke, since he probably never found out what Juzo did.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2019 01:20
|
|
|
I would certainly agree Mondo and Mahiru’s are the goofiest and not great, although the implication of Mahiru’s is that she’s having a fantasy during a fatal injection if I remember correctly. However this execution is a step beyond the Execution of Leon and it does the show no favours for it being so. I would argue that the other deaths from 1 besides Leon (and Alter Ego) are pretty brutal though. Celeste is being burnt alive at the stake and then crushed by a fire truck specifically because being burnt alive would please her sense of drama and aesthetics. Kyoto was going to be locked to a desk and crushed to death and Makoto was going to eat that punishment too. But what they don’t do is go for Torture Porn, not even Leon or Mukiro’s death was about the violence and pain inflicted. They were about the suddenness and brutality of the action but still tended to avoid being as directly uncomfortable as watching Chiaki get slaughtered here as she slowly stumbles through a horror show maze. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2019 03:31
|
|
|
This is long cause it's about the struggle, because that's how to instill ~despair~ and poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2019 18:56
|
|
 And after that wonderful series of events, we find ourselves back on the Future Side. Except we're more on the Past Side, because we're having a flashback, back to the end of DR1.  And here, we get to see what awaited our survivors - a whole lot of nothing.  However, Future Foundation has been watching all this time. Kyosuke gets pissed that there's nobody there to help them, but then one of the agents says the first responders just arrived... which I think contradicts the previously established series of events? Like, I'm pretty sure our DR1 crew didn't just immediately get picked up by Future Foundation, I think that got brought up in DR2 at some point. Oh well.  Anyway, Future Foundation now knows Junko was behind all this, and Chisa blames herself for this, saying that she didn't think Junko was behind it all. Except...  ...well, we all know the truth now.  Juzo also seems somewhat peeved at this turn of events for reasons the others don't know, but we do.  Back in the present, Kyosuke gets snippy at the idea of Aoi of all people figuring out who the attacker is. Makoto tells him to at least give her a chance, and he does. Woop.  So, Aoi shows Makoto what Kyoko wrote down regarding the attacker. Turns out the only prints on the murder weapons are those of the victims. Furthermore, all wounds are in easily accessible places. Hence, the only conclusion is that all the "attacker" killings were, in fact, suicides. Ryota can't believe it, asking what could have driven them all to commit suicide.  Well, Kyoko has made some more notes. She drew maps of the places the bodies were found, where the survivors were, and... the monitors.  Ryota flinches, as if he just got an idea, and he doesn't like it one bit. I think he knows exactly where this is going, and I think you out there know as well. However, Makoto can't figure it out yet - he now remembers that he did see a monitor at every site where there was a dead body, but he can't pinpoint what their connection to the killings is yet.  However, Makoto has a plan.  His plan is to have Kyosuke tie him up. Essentially, Makoto is taking a page out of Odysseus's playbook - restraining himself in order to witness something that would otherwise be certain death.  Aoi asks Makoto if Kyoko's death pushed him past some sort of breaking point that he's trying this, but he just says that he'd never dishonor her memory like that. He goes on to talk about how Kyoko would always search for the truth and all that guff. So instead of, say, breaking all the monitors in the room they lock themselves in before the time limit expires or something like that, he cooked up this Greek classic because I guess self-experimentation is hopeful or something. Makoto also brings up the promise he made to Komaru and says that he intends to be a survivor. I can't help but feel like Kyoko could've come up with a less risky plan, and well, she's the woman that investigates by tasting the saliva off of corpses.  Anyway, the other three hole up in a room and the time limit expires, sending everybody to sleep.  However, Makoto is later awakened by the bracelet, and hears a familiar voice! Or, well, unfamiliar voice belonging to a familiar character.  It's Monokuma! He speaks directly to the attacker, but Makoto quickly realizes that it's actually just a recording.  Well, Monokuma has something to show to the attacker! What is it?  It looks like it's a Monokuma Theater episode, but the fact that Monokuma's theme is playing backwards seems to be telling us that something else is going on here.   Something isn't quite right.  And Makoto can't seem to look away. Hrm, now where did we see that behavior before?  And just like that, Makoto suddenly finds himself, well, wherever the gently caress this is. The edge of reality?  However, he's not alone! Kyoko simply says "you're still alive". Makoto turns to face her, and...  ...oh dear.  Sayaka chastises Makoto for promising to get her out alive and not delivering. Kyoko says this is all his fault. And just as Makoto starts to reply...   ...some old friends show up.   Kyoko and Sayaka then tell Makoto that he should've been the one that died, not them.  Makoto is not dealing well with being directly confronted by those who died under his watch. And as he tries to cope...   ...he gets to see all the dead again at once. Now, I know what you might be thinking. This is a really good scene showing how the brainwashing could turn somebody to suicide, but are they going to gently caress it up by showing the one thing that, while fitting, completely takes you out of the moment?  Yes, they loving did. They gave us Mondo butter. God damnit. And I can't even blame DR3 for that! They were saddled with this because yes, the dead Mondo did indeed turn into loving butter as established by DR1. It's just so incredibly unfitting for this moment.  Back from the edge of reality, we have screaming, mostly.  Also, in fidgeting around wildly, Makoto inadvertently scrapes open his restraints.  And then, as if by divine intervention, a dagger is dropped nearby.   And with Makoto getting ready to jam it straight into his throat, the Kyoko and Sayaka in his head tell him to join them and kill himself.  And he is absolutely fine with that plan.  But then, the knife is knocked out of his hand...  ...and he finds himself shoved against the wall by somebody who isn't going to let the man who defeated Junko kill himself. Who is this man?  It's Juzo!  Apparently, getting choked the gently caress out is a good antidote against brainwashing, because it seems to have gotten Makoto to snap out of it. However, Makoto has some questions, namely, how the gently caress is Juzo still awake? Note that Makoto doesn't have the question we have right now, namely, how the gently caress is Juzo still alive?  Well, the answer to Makoto's question is "he straight up chopped off his arm Jesus loving Christ what". The answer to our question seems to be "sheer loving tenacity". Juzo says he wanted to get the attacker by doing this and finally end this.     However, as Makoto has now confirmed, there is no attacker. The one closest to a monitor got woken up by the bracelet, then shown the brainwashing video. After that, they all killed themselves.  This turn of events doesn't exactly improve Juzo's mood. As it stands, they've been killing each other because of somebody that probably isn't even in the building but instead controlling everything remotely in some way. They've been doing all sorts of things to try and find the attacker, and it turns out in the end that it was all of them. Yeah, thinking about it that way, it does make the entirety of what Juzo and Kyosuke did entirely pointless when they could've just stuck their thumbs up their asses and let Kyoko figure everything out.  Makoto suggests ending the game by destroying all the monitors, but Juzo says that there could be a ton of them, and if Makoto wants to do that, sure, but don't expect him to help.  Juzo also confesses that from the moment on that Makoto left Hope's Peak, he hated him. When Kyosuke told Makoto to kill himself, all Juzo could think was "about time". But why? Well, it's because Makoto defeated Junko. Turns out Juzo is still seriously beating himself up over loving up that Junko situation we saw last episode. And in the end, he couldn't kill Makoto for Kyosuke, and as a result, Kyosuke just threw him away. Makoto tries to convince Juzo that Kyosuke didn't mean it that way, that it was just because of the game fooling him, and Juzo just... walks away.  So, Makoto joins up with the rest of the gang and confirms Kyoko's theory further by smashing up another monitor and finding another dagger in it. So we now know how people are being killed, but the question remains - who made this?  Ryota again reacts to that question in a subtle way that really does sell "oh gently caress me this is my fault oh gently caress oh poo poo but I can't let the others notice".  However, Kyosuke has another answer to that question. Apart from him, there is only one person with enough access and enough knowledge about this facility to pull this off. It's the man who built the Foundation from the ground up, and who was also a former headmaster of Hope's Peak - Kazuo Tengan. He also knew of the "true identity" of the attacker and told it to Kyosuke - phrased in a vague way to hide the real truth, but still accurate enough to not trigger his forbidden action of answering a question with a lie. Thus, Kyosuke theorizes that Kazuo was in fact the true Remnant of Despair. The others don't want to believe it, but according to Kyosuke's logic, it's the only answer that makes sense. He also reveals to the rest that Chisa was with the Remnants as well.  Back during the investigation Chisa and Juzo did, the evidence overwhelmingly suggested Junko was behind it all, but both Chisa and Juzo insisted Junko was innocent, so Kyosuke believed them. However, Kyosuke believes it was Kazuo who abused the fact that Chisa and Juzo were Kyosuke's friends to throw him off the track, when we know it was Junko herself.   Ryota really takes this new information hard, and Makoto seems to be starting to be suspicious of what exactly Ryota's role is in this.  Meanwhile, Juzo is dragging himself back to the secret room. He's clearly running on fumes at this point and doesn't have long left. So what's his plan?  Well, there's these very convenient switches here.  And with Juzo talking about how the others will talk about how he was always a big softie when they find out he let Junko off the hook...  ...he flips the first switch.  That turns off the lights and then on the emergency lights...  ...which also leads to the monitors turning off. And when Makoto asks who could've turned off the power...  ...somebody has a bit of a realization that it is in fact Juzo trying to save them. Makoto tells Kyosuke to head to Juzo and that Juzo isn't the enemy. Kyosuke replies that even if he isn't, he ran him through with a sword and left him for dead. Kyosuke says that Juzo was his friend, to which Makoto says that Juzo *is* his friend, and if he wasn't, he wouldn't be shutting off the power right now.  Basically, Juzo got a sword shoved through him by Kyosuke and he's still trying to help him, so just go to him and tell him that you love him, you fool! Or, well, that you're still his friend.  So with the credits rolling, Kyosuke runs off.  Juzo talks about how he deserves what Kyosuke did to him, but regardless, he still wants him to live, and then flips the last switch.  With that, the bracelets just fall off.  Kyosuke arrives at the breaker room to find...  ...he's too late. All he can do now is ask Juzo to forgive him. RIP our boy Juzo, for real this time.  Meanwhile, outside, more Future Foundation reinforcements have arrived and are taking care of those that got caught in that explosion we had earlier.  Finally, Makoto asks Ryota if he has any ideas how a brainwashing video could be made, just because he's the Ultimate Animator.  Ryota however immediately takes the question as an accusation and says not to blame him, that Junko used his technology. Aoi wants some more explanation on this subject matter, but then, they're interrupted by a phone ringing.  It's Ryota's! But what could the reason for it ringing possibly be?  DUN DUN DUNNNNNN And that's the episode. Seems like our gang is mostly out of immediate danger, but it seems we're still not quite out of the woods just yet. Next time, on the Despair Side, the class we've come to know and love so much throughout this series finally graduates. What the gently caress just happened?: Turns out the "attacker" is actually everybody, because whoever got killed was made to kill themselves with a brainwashing video. Makoto tests this theory and almost ends up killing himself, but he's saved by Juzo, who despite being close to death, decided to take himself out of the game by literally chopping the part of his arm with the bracelet off. Makoto suggests breaking the monitors, but given their number, Juzo has a different plan. Juzo drags himself to the secret room he found earlier, which holds the breaker room for the building, and using the last of his strength, flips all the switches to turn off the power, turning off the monitors and the bracelets. Kyosuke theorizes that the one behind all of this has to be Kazuo. Makoto then tells Kyosuke to stop being such an idiot and go to Juzo and tell him he's still his friend, but Kyosuke arrives too late, Juzo already breathed his last. Finally, Ryota gets a mysterious message on his phone from Kazuo.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 22:34
|
|
|
- And here's the reveal. Yes, it was all mind hack anime. Every part of it. Complex motives everywhere.  - I appreciate the fact they got Sayaka's VA back for this scene. That said, the Mondo Butter is... not something I would've drawn attention to were I directing it. Kinda takes the emotion out of an otherwise chilling scene. - The reason I shared that picture of Makoto from the last episode is because it's a good contrast to the shot of him with crazy red eyes in this episode. - Tengan being the Mastermind is such a limp noodle of a twist. But I can't go too much into why until next episode. That being said, I think it's at least obvious that he had almost no presence before he was killed four episodes in. - That being said, Tengan saying that he didn't want to give up on the Kamakura project back in Episode 4 was also a pretty good indicator he wasn't completely on the up and up. - And this is where I'd post the Juzo thing if I wasn't on my phone at present. If no one has done it by the time I get home, I will. - Ryota still refuses to accept responsibility all these years later. - Man, Byakuya just kind of ceased to exist after that trap got triggered, huh?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
Note that the switches room is in the room with Monolisa, which means it's also the room with the "exit." What I'm saying is that Kirigiri's death is her fault for not bothering to check the room completely 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 03:33
|
|
|
I'm wondering what could make the Mondo butter part better. Maybe showing his face melting and a brief glimpse of skull before everything completely melts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 03:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
And there he goes, our boy Juzo. Truly a hero who could only be stopped by the most noble of sacrifices to save everyone else. What a guy. Anyway yeah this is where the Juzo meme basically hit full power because well, dude died thinking the love of his life rightfully hated him and he still saved everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 03:54
|
|