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Lol Wendig wrote a story about a Vader-obsessive morgue tech for his cancelled comic and Marvel took it, changed the character to a female nurse, and churned out something that had me literally doing the Krusty "what the hell was that" gif by the end
Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 03:09
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Oh it's so loving bad. It's like watching someone throw a loving crab at a Smash Bros. e-sports tournament, you know it's wrong but it fills you with so much glee because of just how bad it is.
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Apr 25, 2019 04:27
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It's doubly mystifying given that the last issue was loving fantastic
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Apr 25, 2019 04:40
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This has to be a jab at Aphra, right?
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Apr 25, 2019 08:53
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If it is, it's a bizarrely misaimed one that looks like it's just going after women fans in general.
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Apr 25, 2019 10:48
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I mean, "fangirls just want to screw the Broody Dark Lord instead of being a serious fan the right way" has been a nerd complaint for a while, it's like half of what the Kylo Ren Discourse is about. Aphra is a visible case where that particular fantasy is officially acknowledged and pandered to, so I'm guessing there. YaketySass fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 10:54
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YaketySass posted:Aphra is a visible case where that particular fantasy is officially acknowledged and pandered to, so I'm guessing there. What? She definitely was introduced as somebody with a fascination with Vader, but her overall narrative arc couldn’t have separated her from that persona any faster.
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Apr 25, 2019 14:46
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It was good. Vader is at his best when he's a cartoonishly evil dipshit surrounded by crazy expendable morons. Every issue should end with him absent mindedly ending the life of the viewpoint character and going about his day.
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Apr 25, 2019 15:41
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Angry Salami posted:If it is, it's a bizarrely misaimed one that looks like it's just going after women fans in general. yea there's been some good breakdowns about how it's explicitly using beats from stories like Little Mermaid and Phantom of the Opera but taking the lens of 'fuckin stupid broad am I right guys?' That and the fact that, ya know, in Star Wars it's pulpy bullshit most of the time and the focus of stories tends to be power fantasies, and there's multiple Sith we're told are badass cool guys who, while not as extreme, do have a backstory of 'thought another stronger Sith was cool beans and wanted to serve them/emulate them/whatever'. It feels like a very mean spirited story, not just lame shock 'yea and then he fuckin LIGHTSABERS her because Vader's evil and cool like that' but more 'and she deserved it for being such a stupid piece of poo poo as to like Darth Vader, what kinda loser rear end in a top hat would think Vader is cool, fellow Star Wars fans?' Like, if you took the story of 'underling in the empire is treated poorly by superiors, admires Vader, becomes obsessed with this idea of impressing/winning the approval of Vader to show him that they're the same kind of person, is abused for this desire and channels that anger and resentment into more violent fantasies' on it's own that's just...a Star Wars villain story? It's a kinda cliche one especially with Kylo out there as the movie version of this (who Star Wars very much wants us to think is a cool badass which adds to the shittyness of this), but that's a perfectly fine story for a comic mini story to do, why add the layer of 'yea gently caress fangirls too'? This feels like in a few months we'll hear some interview where a writer reveals before he started work on this he was at a convention and heard some lady in a sexy sith cosplay saying how she had a crush on Vader as a kid or something and this is just him workin that out. It's so out of nowhere compared to the other comics and all.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:09
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This new story seems a bit too mean-spirited even though Vader would likely have that sort of reaction in most situations. Which was also the case during the Aphra arc, albeit in a more elaborate and less simplistic context that didn't feel quite the same.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:31
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wielder posted:This new story seems a bit too mean-spirited even though Vader would likely have that sort of reaction in most situations. Which was also the case during the Aphra arc, albeit in a more elaborate and less simplistic context that didn't feel quite the same. Yea if it was just something more simple like she's just a generic admirer of Vader and manages to sneak a moment to try to gush about how cool he is or whatever and he just kills her for bothering him, that'd fit Vader just fine and be a kinda amusing little story, The whole fangirl romance and just over the top nonsense makes it feel way grosser. There was some silly fan comic where it was something like a bunch of Death Star dudes throwing Vader an anniversary party and the payoff is he just airlocks them for wasting so much time planning a party, that's a funny 'get it, he's a bad guy' and it took like three pages, we didn't need a whole comic of misery porn and 'ugh you stupid fan, liking Vader, are you insane????' stand in nonsense to get there.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:38
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Just had something even more gross about that comic pointed out to me. After the unnamed woman dies, her corpse is suddenly drawn with a much more "traditionally attractive" face. Eyes aren't wide and manic looking, lips are plump and full.
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Apr 26, 2019 05:31
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Luv 2 learn new ways the comic is gross. They put more effort in being lovely in one issue than the past issues combined got for storytelling and junk.
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Apr 26, 2019 06:18
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sexpig by night posted:It's a kinda cliche one especially with Kylo out there as the movie version of this (who Star Wars very much wants us to think is a cool badass which adds to the shittyness of this) Minor thing but I found the portrayal of Kylo Ren in the movies is that he's a loser edgelord and not a cool badass, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Sure if you look at the billion kinds of merch Disney is hawking of him, but in the narrative he's anything but cool.
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Apr 26, 2019 06:52
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Schneider Heim posted:Minor thing but I found the portrayal of Kylo Ren in the movies is that he's a loser edgelord and not a cool badass, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Sure if you look at the billion kinds of merch Disney is hawking of him, but in the narrative he's anything but cool. For all its faults I think TLJ actually understood what Kylo had kinda become in that. TFA on the other hand I genuinely think did not understand that it had made Kylo a loser Edgelord. Driver may have realized what Kylo looked like since his performance is a big part of that. The Director/Writers on the other hand I think earnestly thought they were making a "cool" villain.
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Apr 26, 2019 08:18
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Really? I kinda feel it's the other way around, that TFA portrays him as a pale imitation of Vader, throwing tantrums in the hall, and has him lose pathetically the one fight he actually has. While TLJ wants to make him a tragic figure with a backstory that tries to justify him, and redesigns his face scar to keep him attractive.
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Apr 26, 2019 08:38
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It's a problem larger than Kylo in that despite being genuine losers with a repulsive ideology (or nods toward one), the Empire and First Order people are consistently milked for iconography and marketing as more stylish and grandiose than the heroes. The Stormtroopers are well-known for their incompetence but they're also much more appreciated than the Rebels in terms of striking imagery.
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Apr 26, 2019 12:06
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Darth Vader, you're cancelled edit: I think people are projecting too much of themselves onto the story of a fan who falls in love with her fantasy of a person and gets burned by it. Also that same twitter thread complains that the comic is "mocking fan culture" so LOL. EndOfTheWorld fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 13:57
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Schneider Heim posted:Minor thing but I found the portrayal of Kylo Ren in the movies is that he's a loser edgelord and not a cool badass, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Sure if you look at the billion kinds of merch Disney is hawking of him, but in the narrative he's anything but cool. his obsession with Vader IS meant to be pathetic but he's never really...punished for it like this character is, for lack of a better term. Like, what happens, Snoke says 'take that stupid helmet off' and makes him look like a bitch in front of Rey? That's a solid smack down yea but moments like him praying to Vader's helmet aren't framed as pathetic inherently, and no one but his master dares to even make a joke or snide comment about it, whereas in the original trilogy you had normal officers being all 'your religion is loving stupid, stop talking about it and focus on reality' to Vader's face in a big important meeting with others. Sure he got choked out for it, but even then Tarkin tells Vader to stop and he does.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:19
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EndOfTheWorld posted:I think people are projecting too much of themselves onto the story Pretty much every fantasy story ever now, esp. those that are bad.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:21
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EndOfTheWorld posted:Darth Vader, you're cancelled I mean, it's less 'mocking fan culture' and more mocking one very specific, gendered, kind of fan culture when Star Wars typically encourages that stuff from anyone else. Like, insert that RLM bit where Plinkett lists all the child friendly Vader toys/candies/whatevers that he can think of here. Star Wars has marketed 'hey sure Vader is a bad guy but he's soooo cool right?' since A New Hope so having some big 'ugh /fangirls/ am I right guys?' comic feels like it's really not about that at all.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:29
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I think there should be some differentiation between "Darth Vader is a cool fictional character" and "Darth Vader, the guy I live with in this pretend galaxy because I, too, am a fictional character in the Star Wars mythos, is cool and would totally be my friend." I suppose I just don't see the woman in that story (intended or otherwise) as some kind of stand-in for every Jane Starwarsfan. We've had stories about fans who gently caress up by putting their idols on a pedestal for years, and this just reads as a natural extension of that. I'm luukewarm on the new Star Wars movies, but I am glad that they've given us more minority and female characters. I just think the author of that thread is being unfair by expecting every story to be some validation of their own fandom.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:44
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It's also singularly stupid because someone projecting positive feelings behind the mask is in touch with the overall ethos of Star Wars. He's a crippled, suffering, pitiable man behind the appearance of invincibility and evil. Granted, it's -weird- for the particular feeling to be romantic right out of the gate, but the idea that Vader should only elicit fear is in complete opposition to RotJ. If such attempts at reaching out should fail it should be to illustrate how he's afraid of vulnerability and loss and can't let the armor down for even one second, not to score point about how he's actually 2cool4school and rightfully can't be associated with girly ~feelings~.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:45
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YaketySass posted:It's also singularly stupid because someone projecting positive feelings behind the mask is in touch with the overall ethos of Star Wars. He's a crippled, suffering, pitiable man behind the appearance of invincibility and evil. Granted, it's -weird- for the particular feeling to be romantic right out of the gate, but the idea that Vader should only elicit fear is in complete opposition to RotJ. Yea I think a lot of the anger is coming from the ending more than anything. If you really want to ~deconstruct fandom~ or whatever and use the lens of a woman falling in love with Vader that's not inherently bad. To make it such a big 'and she's crazy and ugly and stupid for this and lol she got stabbed, dumbass' is where it veers into 'hey man you wanna talk about something?' You're SUPPOSED to feel pity/sympathy/whatever for Darth Vader in this post RotJ world, the whole POINT is under that scary mask is a broken man who lost everything he loved. Yea you probably shouldn't see Vader and instantly go 'I'm gonna make that my husband' but you shouldn't do poo poo like that to a lot of characters people of all genders do, to treat the very idea of 'I can see who you are behind the mask and know it's not this heartless monster everyone sees' as some absurd thing super doesn't work just from a Star Wars standpoint. How many comics, shows like Rebels, all that stuff have we gotten where since RotS the writer wants to show there's flashes of Anakin still under the mask? How many stories have been told about Vader's struggle with his choices? Jokes about Darth Vader pez aside there's not anything wrong with liking Vader these days because we've gotten so much that's changed him from the mostly silent space-nazi officer he was in the first movie into this sympathetic villain, and a comic like that is just kinda taking all that and going 'pffffft, kooky broads am I right?' The person doing that twitter thread that goes around the most about this mentions how critical the Phantom of the Opera scene where Christine removes his mask is but doesn't really dive into that. That moment, which this comic is totally trying to ~deconstruct~ (at best, at worst just outright mocking) is when The Phantom becomes human, he stops being this imposing mystical monster man and it's revealed he wears the mask not to be spooky scary but because he's vulnerable and afraid and ashamed to show the world his wounds. Vader's unmasking has almost a 1:1 comparison in Jedi, this imposing and cold mask comes off to reveal this...sad, dying, man who was begging to see his son with his actual eyes for once in his life even after all the fighting and killing and all. He comes back as a ghost as Anakin because that's how he died, mask off and making peace as himself instead of playing Vader. Turning that into a near punchline is just...weird? Even divorcing all the fangirl elements, it just feels like the writer there didn't get the point of the character at all, which is problematic when the comic is about that character! Yea, they needed to have him reject her, that's what Vader does, but just have him shut the pod in her face and have her run off crying and abandoning her dreams to become another Imperial drone or something, that's cruel, that's heartless, that's still Vader, but I guess that'd be too girly of an end so fwoom lightsaber time. Anyway thanks for coming to my Ted Talk: "Gettin Mad At Comics Before Noon"
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Apr 26, 2019 15:14
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So the woman making the original complaint is a Rey-Kylo Ren shipper who actually said that depicting a woman falling in love with Vader should be "empowering." This is a really dumb take. This is essentially the Star Wars equivalent of that "white women when a new serial murderer documentary comes out" meme.
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Apr 26, 2019 18:25
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Fandom turning tremendously evil people into progressive icons is  , but I think in ths particular case she's talking about the panel where the character's fantasizing about turning into a Sith who kicks the rear end of her superiors. Sure, it's ridiculous, but in context it comes off as more ammo of the sort: "aha, lookit at her imagining herself powerful."
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Apr 26, 2019 18:38
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Chairman Capone posted:So the woman making the original complaint is a Rey-Kylo Ren shipper who actually said that depicting a woman falling in love with Vader should be "empowering." This is a really dumb take. This is essentially the Star Wars equivalent of that "white women when a new serial murderer documentary comes out" meme. There's a HUGE world of difference between shipping fictional characters (or having a self-insert crush on a fictional character) and falling in love with an actual real life serial killer. As a parallel, the 501st is a really well respected costuming and charity group; nobody thinks they're dressing up as space fascists to enact actual fascism
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Apr 26, 2019 18:39
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jivjov posted:As a parallel, the 501st is a really well respected costuming and charity group; nobody thinks they're dressing up as space fascists to enact actual fascism Maybe you don't...
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Apr 26, 2019 21:25
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jivjov posted:As a parallel, the 501st is a really well respected costuming and charity group; nobody thinks they're dressing up as space fascists to enact actual fascism I have doxxed several 501st members and they have all lost their jobs/families as a result, so no, we don't all feel that way.
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Apr 26, 2019 22:08
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This is the only good contribution to Star Wars fandom https://archiveofourown.org/works/5457191
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Apr 26, 2019 22:09
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The Lobotomy Kid posted:I have doxxed several 501st members and they have all lost their jobs/families as a result, so no, we don't all feel that way. I sure hope this is just some manner of joke I'm missing...
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Apr 26, 2019 22:11
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Roth posted:This is the only good contribution to Star Wars fandom no, this is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtRzX5ZzYfY
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Apr 26, 2019 22:35
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The Lobotomy Kid posted:I have doxxed several 501st members and they have all lost their jobs/families as a result, so no, we don't all feel that way. lol
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Apr 27, 2019 05:59
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Power fantasies and wish fulfillment is everywhere in genre fiction, but for some reason only the ones that appeal to women get made fun of. Hmmmm.
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Apr 27, 2019 06:18
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Wait, what is wrong with the 501st?
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Apr 30, 2019 06:36
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Schneider Heim posted:Wait, what is wrong with the 501st? Other than dressing like space fascists, nothing. They were making a joke.
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Apr 30, 2019 13:06
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Endless Mike posted:Other than dressing like space fascists, nothing. They were making a joke. Yeah I got bothered with that. I know little about them but I wonder how they do charity stuff, do they just dress up and visit kids in hospitals?
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May 2, 2019 07:04
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Schneider Heim posted:Yeah I got bothered with that. I know little about them but I wonder how they do charity stuff, do they just dress up and visit kids in hospitals? That's part of it, they'll do fundraisers, visiting hospitals, being using as set dressing for events like author signings or local movie screenings, etc
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May 2, 2019 15:26
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As far as running into your exes go, I really can’t wait for Aphra trying to explain how she’s alive. Again.
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May 17, 2019 23:01
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I got the Marvel Star Wars 108 today. It was fun to see a return to the 80s Marvel series, even though it was weird to have references to stuff like the Bantam era and the prequels appear in the context of the Marvel series. The multiple artist format was a nice showcase too, especially having Jan Duursema return to Star Wars for one section.
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May 30, 2019 02:31
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