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Sorry about that. They were mostly precautionary but I imagine most people who care about knowing know by now.Sinteres posted:Doomsday Clock was originally supposed to wrap up last year. If they're actively revising it to sync up with anything coming out right now in ways that weren't always planned, they're crazy. It has been delayed far beyond anything to do with the original script or art. Frank's slow but he's not this slow, we know that from earlier in the series. Something happened to force the delays otherwise. Obviously they know what was happening in these events months in advance of the actual release. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 02:40
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Sinteres posted:Doomsday Clock was originally supposed to wrap up last year. If they're actively revising it to sync up with anything coming out right now in ways that weren't always planned, they're crazy. I could definitely see them getting rid of a scene where someone sends Rorschach to Sanctuary, so that then he could appear in one of those therapy talk-to-camera cutaways throughout the book for one page and never again.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:50
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I think Tom King just takes death threats more seriously because he got plenty of them at his old job. Dude left his old job to get away from that poo poo. Who the gently caress sends death threats to a guy that worked for the CIA? That bodyguard he had at a con was a friend of his or something, I forget.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:56
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Just to be clear, your theory is that Doomsday Clock (which was teased in the summer of 2016, formally announced in May 2017, and originally solicited to run from late 2017 to late 2018) is being held back so as not to spoil - Heroes in Crisis (announced June 2018, first issue released September 2018, scheduled to end in May 2019) - Leviathan (a book that has not yet come out) I can believe that they're furiously reworking things or Geoff Johns is just overextended and has at some point fallen behind on scripts which then further delays things as Gary Frank is not fast enough to make up for getting the scripts late. If you look at modern era Geoff Johns books (and maybe this was all artists being slow and rescheduling to avoid spoilers!) - Forever Evil, his cut-short run on Superman, and the last year or so of Justice League/Darkseid War all had delays, albeit nothing as extreme as Doomsday Clock. - Shazam was announced in the summer of 2018 with the first issue promised in November. The series got pushed back to December, and the fifth issue (originally scheduled for a few weeks ago) is now scheduled for May 8th. - Batman: The Three Jokers was also officially announced last summer, after being teased in 2016. It was supposed to be solicited in December or January, but still isn't on the schedule through July 2019. Maybe all of this stuff is being held back to avoid spoilers for comics that haven't even been announced yet. Or maybe something is gumming up the works for everything Geoff Johns has worked on since 2015 or so that may be down to slow writing and/or rewrites. Open Marriage Night posted:I think Tom King just takes death threats more seriously because he got plenty of them at his old job. Dude left his old job to get away from that poo poo. Who the gently caress sends death threats to a guy that worked for the CIA?
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Apr 25, 2019 03:07
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It feels more likely to me that the delays are because Geoff Johns is also busy with 5 or 6 other things going on at DC at the same time in addition to writing Doomsday Clock, Shazam, and Three Jokers, yeah.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:22
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Edge & Christian posted:Just to be clear, your theory is that Doomsday Clock (which was teased in the summer of 2016, formally announced in May 2017, and originally solicited to run from late 2017 to late 2018) is being held back so as not to spoil Not to not spoil anything, but since it necessarily takes place after all this poo poo certain scenes might have to have been rewritten. I point out a very obvious one that would make absolutely no sense if Lois answered no to Lex given what's going on. It's less spoilers and more coherency and, maybe, not having Dclock line up with King and Bendis' personal events that they were promised. The original delays (the now laughable bi-monthly announcement) was probably just your bog standard stuff but these latest ones can't just be art and writing at this point.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:31
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Doomsday Clock works a lot better as an Elseworld so gently caress that noise
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Apr 25, 2019 03:34
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Not to not spoil anything, but since it necessarily takes place after all this poo poo certain scenes might have to have been rewritten. I point out a very obvious one that would make absolutely no sense if Lois answered no to Lex given what's going on. They presumably knew where they were going with Doomsday Clock first though, and (I believe) HiC was written at least in part as a bridge event to explain why everything's so hosed up at the start of Doomsday Clock. If that's true, there's no need to revise Doomsday Clock later to match up with it since that's already baked in. Who knows though, they're both shitshows for different reasons, so the two being linked in an idiotic way would be perfect.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:42
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Madkal posted:Doomsday Clock works a lot better as an Elseworld so gently caress that noise I'd much rather have HiC be an elseworld.
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Apr 25, 2019 03:47
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Geoff just has to worry about finishing the dang thing. I'll forgive it not lining up with the universe any more. edit: Saying that, I would like to see Batman get in Clock's costume in the regular comics. Love a Batman Inc style raised yellow emblem. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 04:05
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I miss the Superman Reborn costume. 
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Apr 25, 2019 08:09
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Not to not spoil anything, but since it necessarily takes place after all this poo poo certain scenes might have to have been rewritten. I point out a very obvious one that would make absolutely no sense if Lois answered no to Lex given what's going on. In Titans, everyone had to shake Wally's hand and get lightning-bolted-reminded of how he exists, but when Superman shows up he already remembers Wally because he got merged with the other Superman so Superman has all of his pre-Doctor Manhattan memories, and therefore remembers Wally (and Linda and their kids, apparently) without any external stimulus. The other person in the current DCU with the exact (and I mean exact) "Two Selves Merge and Remember Everything About the Old DCU" is... Lois Lane. And even if it wasn't shown on panel, the whole "Superman and Lois merge with old energy balls of memories" from Superman Reborn happened way before Heroes in Crisis and I would have to assume that even if she also didn't remember Wally West and his family because of the energy ball merging, it feels like something that Clark would bring up to Lois Lane "hey guess what we are not the only two people who remember the old world!" at least casually. Also Wally West has been like A Hero In Public Teaming Up With Barry Allen and the Titans and the Justice League for a long time now, so it would be weird for Lois to have never "heard of" Wally West. Don't get me wrong, none of this really lines up with Doomsday Clock, but that line wouldn't have really lined up with Doomsday Clock if the issue came out on time, or delayed by several months as it actually was, or if they held off on publishing the issue until 2020. I don't see how any of this works in your head. quote:It's less spoilers and more coherency and, maybe, not having Dclock line up with King and Bendis' personal events that they were promised. The original delays (the now laughable bi-monthly announcement) was probably just your bog standard stuff but these latest ones can't just be art and writing at this point. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 25, 2019 |
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Apr 25, 2019 16:37
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Edge & Christian posted:Lex Luthor's line is literally "Have you ever heard of Wally West?" in reference to "those heroes that never were". It's not "heard about" as if something happened to Wally West, it's "do you have any idea that a person exists named Wally West?" The line doesn't make sense in the context of anything other than a direct follow-up to Johns's DC Rebirth, where no one remembered Wally West existed unless he was able to like... transfer love and memory through a lightning bolt or something? You are missing my point. My point is that Wally West was brought up in conversation, in a plot important manner, to Lois, in Doomsday Clock. Since Doomsday Clock's entire premise is it takes place after poo poo like HiC and whatever else is going on (Doomsday Clock already referenced HiC in an earlier issue) then Lois' reaction might not have been appropriate or genuine given current events. This might've caused some pages to be rewritten and redrawn to accomodate, which I probably should've used the word "might" and similarly hedging language to prevent your intense ire, I guess. Sorry? I just kind of knee jerk found it unlikely that it took this long for purely art and script reasons. quote:In Titans, everyone had to shake Wally's hand and get lightning-bolted-reminded of how he exists, but when Superman shows up he already remembers Wally because he got merged with the other Superman so Superman has all of his pre-Doctor Manhattan memories, and therefore remembers Wally (and Linda and their kids, apparently) without any external stimulus. The other person in the current DCU with the exact (and I mean exact) "Two Selves Merge and Remember Everything About the Old DCU" is... Lois Lane. You got your sequence of events wrong. Superman and Wally only talked long before Superman Reborn happened. At the time Superman was still just purely Pre-Flashpoint, unmerged Superman who shared a lot of knowledge with Wally. After Reborn we have no clue what part of Superman's pre-flashpoint memories are intact because it seems they merged everything important to Superman back into the universe and timeline to make poo poo fit (like now Batman and Wonder Woman ALWAYS knew about Jon) but that clearly did not do anything for Wally, who is unimportant to the Superman franchise and didn't get included in the Reborn fix. Superman's only interaction after this point with Wally is the Justice League telling the Titans they're garbage and have to disband and Flash War where he failed to talk to them. Superman never mentioned the kids, either, only Linda when prompted. He also brushed aside all of Wally's worries and fears about the timeline being meddled with, told him not to worry about it, and challenged him to a race. Probably leading back to that thing where Wally West is not important to Superman. The merger is actually a reason for why Superman wouldn't know poo poo about what's going on with Wally anymore because, from his perspective now, he was never a survivor from another timeline. He wasn't just like Wally (though Wally is a bit different, it's semantics at this point). The merger is not the reason they would know about Wally because they knew beforehand. I'm willing to admit I might've missed something in the myriad mess that is Rebirth Superman but I don't remember him referencing or mentioning something after the merge that happened Pre-Flashpoint but not post-Flashpoint. I'm pretty sure that was the point of the merge, to make Dad Superman fit the New 52 universe and ignore every other wrinkle. quote:Also Wally West has been like A Hero In Public Teaming Up With Barry Allen and the Titans and the Justice League for a long time now, so it would be weird for Lois to have never "heard of" Wally West. Again, you are missing the point so loving hard I'm not sure why I'm trying. What I gave was an example. The real loving point of it was that Lois is significantly involved in what is about to be the airing out of Sanctuary's dirty laundry, created and given to her by Wally West. How the talk between Lex and Lois might go down could be affected by this. quote:Don't get me wrong, none of this really lines up with Doomsday Clock, but that line wouldn't have really lined up with Doomsday Clock if the issue came out on time, or delayed by several months as it actually was, or if they held off on publishing the issue until 2020. I don't see how any of this works in your head. Doomsday Clock is still in the future of stuff going on currently. So yeah, it's assumed that Superman and Lois won't die next issue, Dick won't be Ric, JL's plots will tie up. That's usual event comics. This HiC stuff with Wally isn't a self contained issue that will blow over, though. That's not really what King is going for. My point is that this, the burgeoning Lex and Lois conversation, is presented as a plot important moment. Tim Drake's costume is not plot important. Dick Grayson's status as Ric is not plot important as far as I can tell. They're part of a Superhero Group Moneyshot. gently caress Solstice died in HiC and she was mentioned as one of the active heroes in Johns' big diagram of national hero teams. But hey, I'm pretty sure Solstice isn't plot important either. I would think it is much more likely that a late inning change would be made for something relevant to the plot. I will amend my point. I was far too absolutist in my assessment. I should've said they COULD be reasons and that I am merely speculating that these are the case. I'm sure this is what you wanted me to admit to so here you go. This is just speculation that I thought of because, yes, I am speculating that there is more to the delays than just scriptwriting and drawing. I could very well be wrong, it could just be as simple as Frank is super slow and Johns was slow in figuring out the story, but that does seem unusual to me given that Frank refused to even draw it until they both agreed on the full story premise by their interviews. It could very well be Frank is trying to be utterly meticulous so even his regularly slow output is glacial at this point. I was just spitting out a thought off the cuff because even Frank isn't this slow historically and they said they already had the plot in the bag from the beginning and the rest was details. I theorized it has more to do with things than just the art and writing. But I also don't know why I would ever continue talking to you about anything because it is exhausting reading your posts, much less responding to them. Feel free to take one more massive jab back. I'm not sure I have the energy to go another round detailing my every little thought and trivial knowledge to your highly, highly demanding satisfaction. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 03:47
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I clearly got some DC Rebirth lore wrong. It's a bit of a mess (both in reality and my memory of it) but that's also kind of the point. Doomsday Clock is massively delayed and not trying that hard to line up with anything, Johns has a pretty solid track record in the past few years of all of his books getting delayed and not trying that hard to line up with anything. Occam's Razor suggests the book is massively delayed and not lining up with things because of that, not some sort of plan to hold back finished issues of what has been DC's best selling book of the past year in order to make sure it lines up somehow with other comics. What I'm suggesting is that: Lois Lane hasn't heard of Wally West in Doomsday Clock #9 because in The Geoff Johns Story no one has heard of Wally West (or the Justice Society or the Legion of Superheroes) because that's how things are in the Geoff Johns Story. Lois Lane knows who Wally West is (to an unknown extent) in Heroes in Crisis, because it's a story Geoff Johns is making no great effort to line up with. When did he reference Heroes in Crisis in Doomsday Clock? EDIT: Answered my own question, Tattooed Man mentions that the "first Tattooed Man" had something bad happen to him at Sanctuary.  The first Tattooed Man is a white dude who last appeared over a decade ago in Outsiders and Checkmate:  And sure enough, the Tattooed Man shows up in a Sanctuary confessional:  It's almost as if... these books don't really line up? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 04:16
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Yes. Tatooed Man is not plot relevant (Though for all we know, in this universe, that is the first tattooed man. Just a Helena situation or whatever). I already mentioned Solstice dying being incongruous with Doomsday Clock, too! I fully admit to minor things not lining up. I do not know why you're hammering on this point again. But sure go ahead and repeat yourself all you want, man. I understand nothing I can ever say will live up to your standards, even when I'm right, because your endlessly cynical and pedantic view needs me to justify errant thoughts with the dedication of full time research thesis. As my final stupid loving hail mary to get you to understand the point I made, Doomsday Clock is operating under the auspices of HiC happening in the past and I'd like to think that the fate of Wally West might just be very slightly important to Doomsday Clock given the whole impetus for this. But it's just loving speculation. I'm glad you are suggesting something different which is actually just the same thing everyone else in the loving world has said because, yes, it is the most simple and obvious answer. My assumption was an off the cuff speculation while I was thinking about the awful story of HiC going forward and, hey, going forward is Doomsday Clock! Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 04:53
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I mean this sincerely and not as a dig, I think I fundamentally misunderstood your initial 'off the cuff' posts as some sort of Geoff Johns Apologia, not someone who looking back in the thread is a really big fan of Wally West and looking at things through that lens it's a reasonable thing for you to want/hope for. I am very pessimistic DC will make good for you, but at least your reasons for wanting your speculation to be true are pure. Though if I never heard a variation of "ha ha how dare you look something up before you state it on the Internet, you nerd, you loving nerd loser ugh" I would be similarly happy!
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Apr 26, 2019 05:17
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I mean it's just your general MO to demand someone prove something they say at every corner while you snipe at what they say. It's exhausting to deal with. I'm the one with the nerdy rear end memory to know the exact stupid chronology of where all of these funny books line up so it's certainly not about nerd putdowns. I can't look down on anyone for being a nerd. It's just the method that was grinding on me. I actually have absolutely no faith Doomsday Clock will do anything positive for Wally. I think he's hosed for a good long time and no one at those offices with a say wants anything else. It's been the case for 15 years and probably will be for 15 more. I'm betting those dumb rear end Suicide Squad rumors from the start of this will probably be true and it's going to get even worse. I just figured there might be some correlation given the events of the last DClock (the first time Wally's been mentioned in the story that he, you know, kicked off and introduced everyone to) and the issue which will talk about Wally West lining up to come out right after this whole mess is over. It could just be coincidence and it's the more simple explanation, though. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 05:34
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DC Eisner noms:quote:Best Short Story The whole list: https://www.newsarama.com/44949-2019-will-eisner-comic-industry-award-nominees.html Eternity Girl and GL Earth One getting recognized is neat. Wild Storm woulda been nice. edit: Here's the Mad story. https://twitter.com/dizwire/status/1047836036057812993/photo/1 Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 00:04
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Teenage Fansub posted:DC Eisner noms:  Holy poo poo Mad Magazine, massive props to them.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:11
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Eisner Award Winner Heroes in Crisis
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Apr 27, 2019 00:14
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BrianWilly posted:Eisner Award Winner Heroes in Crisis Incredibly cursed. Incredibly.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:22
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Mister Miracle and the Swamp Thing Winter Special were both incredible, but citing Heroes in Crisis as a reason to nominate Tom King is a flagrantly bad decision. I figure they probably just list all of his writing credits for the year regardless of quality, but still. 
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Apr 27, 2019 10:01
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BC rumors: New Batman/Superman series by Josh Williamson and  David Marquez which deals with investigating the Dark Universe and it's alternate characters, which will lead to a new Secret Six starring DU alternates.https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04/28/scoop-new-superman-batman-comic-launch-josh-williamson-david-marquez/ https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/04/28/scoop-secret-six-dcs-year-of-the-villain/
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Apr 28, 2019 19:31
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lmao lots of nods to Exit Stage Left, I bet that one person itt who thinks it's an abomination and cemented Russell as a hack is livid
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Apr 29, 2019 03:57
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Autism Sneaks posted:lmao lots of nods to Exit Stage Left, I bet that one person itt who thinks it's an abomination and cemented Russell as a hack is livid is it me? I feel like it's me. I'm not livid, I'm just disappointed. But whatever, I could care less about the Eisners in general.
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Apr 29, 2019 04:13
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I think a few people really were not impressed with it. I certainly thought it was kind of a weird, reductive, and not very compelling representation of a super fascinating moment in queer history, but I also 100% expected it to get an Eisner nomination.
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Apr 29, 2019 04:45
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Yeah I think it’s a few of people itt who think Mark Russell has a bit and that bit is kind of played out.
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Apr 29, 2019 05:57
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tbf to Russell it's not just him, I think basically all the H-B books weren't good? Except for maybe Future Quest but I feel like to enjoy that one you kind of had to have grown up with at least some of those shows and I didn't, so I felt like I was supposed to feel nostalgic at parts and I felt nothing which is why I ultimately didn't finish it. Anyway thank you for checking out my hot take corner, please like and subscribe
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Apr 29, 2019 10:22
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The Eisners kind of have a Type (in the same way that Oscar Bait films exist) that was and still kind of remains in the mold of the comics that Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman were making. The two of them won "Best Writer" split the best writer category for the first nine years it existed. Both Russell and King feel to me like writers in the mold of someone making that sort of Eisner Bait comics, and more often than not that sort of stuff falls flat. But we live in a world where Bill Willingham has a ton of Best Writer nominations and an actual win, and last year both Flintstones and Batman/Elmer Fudd got nominated. It's not something I think is any good, but it's less harmful (and way less important/impactful to society writ large) than like... Green Book sweeping the Oscars, so whatever. though lmao anyone who likes it is gonna be LIVID when it doesn't win just livid, making GBS threads your pants in anger i bet
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Apr 29, 2019 15:21
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I was excited at the prospect of a new Batman/Superpman book by a writer who is not either King or Bendis but they go and ruin it by making it about the Dark Universe poo poo and the Batman Who Laughs. Ugh.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:27
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Confirmed. https://twitter.com/THR/status/1122848046746886144 Marquez' art looks amazing.   edit: According to the article, he's DC exclusive now too. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 19:30
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X-O posted:I was excited at the prospect of a new Batman/Superpman book by a writer who is not either King or Bendis but they go and ruin it by making it about the Dark Universe poo poo and the Batman Who Laughs. Ugh. Same. I don't know how, but Snyder came up with a character I find less exciting to be in a comic than Hawkman and Red Hood. Edit - I also did not enjoy Snagglepuss. I thought the general consensus here was that it was a pretty lame showing after Flintstones, at best?
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Apr 29, 2019 20:07
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This tangentially reminds me, and sorry if this is off-topic, but: I remember when the last iteration of this thread was first talking about Exit Stage Left and I brought up my objections to the way it made queer history feel so joyless, someone asked me for some recommendations on texts that more accurately or fully conveyed the vibrancy of mid-century queer culture. I suggested a few things, but there's a book that just came out that I think does a really, really splendid job of communicating the liveliness, diversity, and joy of New York's gay communities (and its show-biz communities especially) from the mid-19th century through the early 1960s, and which covers a lot of the same historical ground that ESL does: When Brooklyn Was Queer, by Hugh Ryan, who's also the curator of the splendid Pop-Up Museum of Queer History.
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Apr 29, 2019 22:26
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Teenage Fansub posted:Confirmed. I wish it was called World's Finest.
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Apr 30, 2019 08:57
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If I read Doomsday Clock in anticipation of the ending, do I benefit from reading other Rebirth comics first? I haven’t really read much since Rebirth started past the first volume or so of a few trades, but I want to see Dr. Manhattan wreck poo poo.
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Apr 30, 2019 14:43
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George Kansas posted:If I read Doomsday Clock in anticipation of the ending, do I benefit from reading other Rebirth comics first? I haven’t really read much since Rebirth started past the first volume or so of a few trades, but I want to see Dr. Manhattan wreck poo poo. No, it's very much doing it's own thing. You'll be fine just reading Doomsday Clock without any other books.
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Apr 30, 2019 16:15
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Pitwar posted:No, it's very much doing it's own thing. You'll be fine just reading Doomsday Clock without any other books. Cool. Thanks!
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Apr 30, 2019 16:25
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George Kansas posted:Cool. Thanks! You should probably hold off till it finishes, though. So only like, 3 or 4 more years left to wait.
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Apr 30, 2019 18:48
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Is doomsday clock supposed to be a massive event on the level of, say, crisis on infinite earths? I know it hasn't finished yet, but I suppose I'm kinda curious for how big of an event this is in comparison to other recent DC events. Introducing Watchmen to DC doesn't seem like that huge of a deal at first glance, even if it gives Alan Moore an aneurysm.
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Apr 30, 2019 19:33
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George Kansas posted:Is doomsday clock supposed to be a massive event on the level of, say, crisis on infinite earths? I know it hasn't finished yet, but I suppose I'm kinda curious for how big of an event this is in comparison to other recent DC events. Introducing Watchmen to DC doesn't seem like that huge of a deal at first glance, even if it gives Alan Moore an aneurysm. It is a book about a guy smashing all the favorite comics into his nerd boner
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Apr 30, 2019 19:54
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