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Pursesnatcher posted:Lifters sounds reasonable, but this happens pretty much all the time – even when I've just left it overnight. When I did a major flush this summer, I also got a new OEM oil filter. Maybe things will improve when I get that valve cover gasket changed. From what I've read, that could sort out the massive condensation issue as well. I see you have some oil leaks based on your newer posts, but do you know if this engine has hydraulic or solid lifters?
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Apr 17, 2019 23:00
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It survived the winter! Good to see this thread again. I know I’ve been saying it for a long time but please get that radiator, and soon. You do not want to dump all your coolant at once. I’m honestly amazed it’s lasted this long. Check out Behr or Behr/Hella or whatever’s catalog for your country and see if you can get a part number and call a dealer of their parts. Or if not maybe contact them directly? You can probably do at least the radiator for less than that dealer will want. Same with cap/rotor/wires. They’re probably all Bosch parts you can get your hands on with a few emails or phone calls. Still probably won’t be cheap, though... None of this stuff is super challenging. Gaskets and stuff, sure, but you can do some yourself if you want. Re: the spark, HV wires like that act in funny ways. If one cylinder was just along for the ride you’d probably feel it as kind of a loping idle in my experience. You may be getting a weak spark but a good enough one to combust the probably-really-expensive and good-quality fuel over there. BTW we’d call that a “pit” where I come from (the trench in the garage, that is.)
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Apr 17, 2019 23:24
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berth ell pup posted:It survived the winter! Good to see this thread again. Yeah they mentioned it's leaking transmission fluid too so that's not great.
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Apr 17, 2019 23:28
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Charles posted:I see you have some oil leaks based on your newer posts, but do you know if this engine has hydraulic or solid lifters? Best answer I can give: The lifters are often referred to as "hydro-elements" in the receipts and stuff I've got. I haven't actually seen them yet, but I'm getting a feeling there's some sort of hydraulic mechanism in place. But the valve train is driven by a SOCH on each cylinder bank. berth ell pup posted:It survived the winter! Good to see this thread again. Thank you! Yeah, I was actually planning on ordering a new radiator yesterday, but this week is pretty much holidays over here. I know where to get one, and it's coming, and soon – when I did that video, I also noticed I was down about a quart or two of coolant in the big reservoir, so it really is way past time. I'll be doing everything myself, perhaps with a little help from my friends – and I most likely will not be driving it another kilometer before it's time to get to the garage and start screwing. Rotor and cap are switched though; the effect was absolutely magical! Should be pictures of the old ones a few posts back, they were in terrible form, so I'm guessing these super fun new ticking noises (and sparks...) are at least in part due to that one HV lead actually getting some voltage running into it for the first time in... a long time. As for fuel, the 98 octane it absolutely demands is currently a hefty $8 per gallon. I could of course try seeing if it'll run on 95 now – I haven't tried it since swapping out injectors, spark plugs and so on – but if it doesn't like it, I'll have a 25 gallon tank of the stuff to painfully slog through. And I really can't just fill it up a little and see if it works, as that'd soon leave me stranded... seeing as the very best fuel economy I've gotten is almost 17 mpg. Worth it though. Smiles per miles, right?
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Apr 18, 2019 01:50
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17 mpg is... Not that bad. And I bet you just made it a bit higher.
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Apr 18, 2019 02:17
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angryrobots posted:17 mpg is... Not that bad. And I bet you just made it a bit higher. Nope, 16.8 measured at the pump is my very best record so far. Mixed average is something around 12-13 mpg. 
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Apr 18, 2019 02:19
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Pursesnatcher posted:Rotor and cap are switched though; the effect was absolutely magical! Should be pictures of the old ones a few posts back, they were in terrible form, so I'm guessing these super fun new ticking noises (and sparks...) are at least in part due to that one HV lead actually getting some voltage running into it for the first time in... a long time. Ah yeah I thought I had vaguely remembered something about the cap, but hell I can't even remember what work I've done on my own drat cars anyway.
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Apr 18, 2019 02:50
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Pursesnatcher posted:As for fuel, the 98 octane it absolutely demands is currently a hefty $8 per gallon. I could of course try seeing if it'll run on 95 now – I haven't tried it since swapping out injectors, spark plugs and so on – but if it doesn't like it, I'll have a 25 gallon tank of the stuff to painfully slog through. And I really can't just fill it up a little and see if it works, as that'd soon leave me stranded... seeing as the very best fuel economy I've gotten is almost 17 mpg. Worth it though. Smiles per miles, right? Run it down to half a tank, fill it with 95. That'll give you about 96.5. See how it runs. If it runs decent, you can probably get by with 95. But I'd add only 1/4 of a tank at a time of it (beyond the initial half tank). That way you can just burn 1/4 tank at a time and start topping it off with 98 again.
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Apr 18, 2019 07:25
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Pursesnatcher posted:Nope, 16.8 measured at the pump is my very best record so far. Mixed average is something around 12-13 mpg. Dude for what that is, sounds on the money.
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Apr 18, 2019 16:46
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Oh yeah, I'm not complaining! Just pointing out that fuel is indeed expensive, as I'm doing 50 cents per mile just for gas, on a good day. But if I can dilute it with cheaper 95, that'll improve a little.STR posted:Run it down to half a tank, fill it with 95. That'll give you about 96.5. See how it runs. If it runs decent, you can probably get by with 95. But I'd add only 1/4 of a tank at a time of it (beyond the initial half tank). That way you can just burn 1/4 tank at a time and start topping it off with 98 again. Which is why this is a great tip, and absolutely something I'll try. Once I swap the radiator.
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Apr 18, 2019 18:09
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Pursesnatcher posted:Pfff, I guess it can't be helped. It's so weird, the wires all seem nice and, well, insulated. Don't see how it can make a spark through all of that rubber, but it obviously is, so. Correct! I used to drive an old british V8; the joke was that I could lose three cylinders before noticing. You'll see power or mpg improvements when you put new wires on it and get that cylinder firing.
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Apr 18, 2019 20:11
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All right! Already looking forward to the improvements. And I've now finally ordered stuff! I decided to listen to you all and prioritize a new radiator, so that's a big chunk of cash right there. I've also put in for some more fresh rubber, and a single new wire. The other seven have to go as well, and I'll get on that ASAP, but OEM costs €€€, so, uh, yeah. But getting a tight radiator and replacing the bad wire should help a lot, especially for my peace of mind. I'm also considering not swapping the head gaskets right away after all. It's part a question of cash, part one of my cluelessness, and part one of there maybe not being any leaks there at all. When all that other new stuff arrives, I'll also get a pair of valve cover gaskets – because those are most definitely rotten junk at the moment – which cost like $10 a pop. With some luck, the oil around the head gaskets originate from the valve cover gaskets. Swapping the easy cheap ones, cleaning the engine bay, and then seeing if anything else leaks strikes me as the prudent choice before shelling out $500 and spending three weeks trying to reattach the heads. I know I'll end up doing it at some point anyway, but I'd like to not have to put it on a credit card. But! Remember these guys?  The beat-up aluminum headlight grilles I got for cheap? I had a friend run them through an industrial cleaning thing, then went to work with super-fine steel wool or something, and gave them a thorough helping of primer in exactly the right, original aluminum grey color. Then I put some 3-4 layers of ultra-matte of clear coat on it, and I've got to say I'm drat pleased with the result. 
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Apr 25, 2019 23:15
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Generally, bad head gaskets result in the engine consuming coolant, or the oil and coolant mixing, and generally exhaust gases entering the cooling system. I can't say I've heard of a head gasket causing an oil leak (except on Nissan timing covers  ), but valve cover gaskets certainly can and will (and there's about a 99% chance of them being the source of the leak).I did have a car that had coolant seeping from between the head and block, and that WAS because of the head gasket, but it wasn't consuming coolant that I could find, just had a few drops now and then appear from between the head and block. So I just let sleeping dogs lie on that one. A head gasket job is pretty invasive and a bit beyond most DIY skill sets.
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Apr 26, 2019 05:45
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STR posted:Generally, bad head gaskets result in the engine consuming coolant, or the oil and coolant mixing, and generally exhaust gases entering the cooling system. I can't say I've heard of a head gasket causing an oil leak (except on Nissan timing covers I think you're absolutely right, it was just that mechanic's offhand comment that made me think it could help. That, and a head gasket job giving me a great opportunity to get any and all carbon deposits and fossilized matter out of all the little openings between the cylinders and everything else. What I'd REALLY like to do once I'm doing something that big is go even further, and stick a brand new crankshaft, bearings, pistons and connected items in there too. One day...
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Apr 26, 2019 06:46
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Those grilles cleaned up very nicely. I really enjoy that aluminum color. Got a color code for it?
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Apr 26, 2019 07:40
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Pursesnatcher posted:I think you're absolutely right, it was just that mechanic's offhand comment that made me think it could help. That, and a head gasket job giving me a great opportunity to get any and all carbon deposits and fossilized matter out of all the little openings between the cylinders and everything else. What I'd REALLY like to do once I'm doing something that big is go even further, and stick a brand new crankshaft, bearings, pistons and connected items in there too. One day... Well I mean, by the time you're doing a head gasket, the top half of the engine is off anyway. You're 1/3 of the way to a full on rebuild at that point. But why? Your existing crank and pistons are most likely fine (barring some carbon buildup on the pistons), unless it's been run low on oil. Bearings are certainly wear items, so are rings... but so long as good oil is kept in the engine and it sees at least somewhat regular oil changes, they generally last the life of the vehicle. Unless it's blowing blue smoke or white steam once warmed up on a warm day (coolant making its way into the combustion chambers), there's no reason to tear that far into it. Get a compression tester, find a way to measure real oil pressure (if this behemoth doesn't have an actual gauge already), and get a vacuum gauge. Those will tell you everything you need to know about the internal health of your engine without tearing it apart. The oil pressure will give you a general idea about the health of the bearings and oil pump. A compression test will tell you what you need to know about the condition of the rings. A vacuum gauge will tell you a bit more about how well everything's working (hint: you don't want to see the gauge moving at all at idle, and vacuum should decrease smoothly as the throttle opens). If you really want to go all out, a leakdown test will tell you about the valves and rings. All of this combined, even if a shop does it, will be a lot faster (and likely much cheaper) than doing a full engine rebuild. I get that you want to refresh this thing and make it as good as new. I've been there. Don't do it. Yeah, it's a Mercedes, it's one of the most expensive Mercedes models (at least compared to what we get in the US), it's probably the easiest Mercedes to work on of that era.... but it's a 26 year old Mercedes, and one with a shitload of PO fuckery and neglect. That's gonna be a hell of an expensive and time consuming rabbit hole to go down, and it's a hole I've fallen in way too many times. The PO didn't take good care of it, your best bet is to fix whatever it needs to stay legal on the road (and reliable), and just drive it. Enjoy it. Take it off road a bit. Get it dirty. Go camping. Do whatever it takes to make it trustworthy on trips, but don't make it a garage or show queen. Just use it the way it's meant to be used, stay up to date on maintenance, and use quality parts (preferably OEM) when you need to fix it. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 08:33
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MrOnBicycle posted:Those grilles cleaned up very nicely. I really enjoy that aluminum color. Got a color code for it? Thanks! Yeah, I love it. Only problem now is it looks newer and fresher than the bull bar they're being attached to  No color code, sadly; I just used Dupli-Color Aluminium Primer, which happens to come in just one perfect shade of grey. I then coated it in Montana Colors MTN 94 Frame Matt Varnish. This is all... well, it's just really excellent advice, and I'll take it to heart. I'll definitely buy (borrow, or steal) a compression tester and vacuum gauge. The oil pressure gauge on my dash only goes from 0 to 3, and it pretty much just sits at 3 when running, but I guess it tells me all I need to know? When warm, it may drop a little at idle, but that's fine according to the owner's manual – so long as it shoots back up once I apply some gas. As for the why, well... I don't want to make it a show queen; I want to offroad it, pull trailers, load it up with building materials and generally just use it. I believe the PO actually tried to take very good care of it, and spent vast sums going down this exact rabbit hole – but his main fault was letting it sit for years and years. Taking too good care of it, I guess. But the guy before him – well, let's not talk about that guy. But the reason I want it to shine is it's just one of very few examples in the world. Sure there are lots of weird, rare benzes out there, and lots of kinds of limited-run G-wagons as well. But this one stands out as being not only the first G with a V8, but also the very first production Mercedes of any kind with an AMG-built engine. I feel something like that imparts a certain responsibility to motoring history onto the owner, to at least making sure it won't one day be best suited for a wrecker. Plus I have this fantasy of having it run smooth enough that I can balance a coin on the air filter box... At the same time, though, as I've been very clear throughout this thread, I really don't know what I'm doing, including what counts as necessary to keep it in good shape. The reason I even started thinking of crankshaft, piston and bearing replacements was pretty much just that I kept looking at how the engine is put together, and just figuring that, well, if those parts become readily accessible once the heads come off, why now renew them, too? The old adage about fixing things that ain't broke just got lost to tunnel vision. I've learned a lot so far though, and a lot of it comes from the great tips and advice I've gotten in here! I really appreciate being able to toss out these rookie ideas and having them pulled apart when dumb, or enhanced with some knowledge and experience when on the right track! And in a couple of weeks, when stuff has made it way here from Germany, I'll be able to see if I can implement the clever ideas, too 
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Apr 27, 2019 08:46
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Sorry man, I worded that a bit harshly - but you understood what I was getting at. It's a very unique vehicle - a Benz G wagon that's actually been used for what it was built for, with a first year V8, first year AMG, and currently an owner that gives a poo poo about it. The parts you're talking about aren't easily done with the heads off. You need to tear the bottom end apart. If you're at that point, just yank the engine, tear it apart, and rebuild the whole thing at once. Don't do it bit by bit; you'll spend a lot more money, it'll take a lot longer, and you'll lose all of your hair from the stress. Cranks don't normally need much more than a polish during a rebuild, unless a bearing spun. Pistons may need replacement during a rebuild, or just a bit of cleaning up - it depends if the cylinder bores need to be "bored out" (enlarged due to wear). Rings and bearings are generally replaced during a rebuild (unless you run the sloppymechanics youtube channel) (don't follow their advice for anything you want to last, only for stuff that you want to make insane power with for a few days), but the ones you use depends on if the crank gets polished or resurfaced, and if the bores get enlarged slightly or not. We've all been at the "I don't know anything about this thing, but I want to learn about it" stage. The smartest people, IMO, are somewhat stuck in that stage for their entire lives, for everything they run across. The oil pressure gauge sounds like it's at least somewhat reflecting reality (most "real" ones are still heavily dampened; it sounds like yours is, but at least it actually moves a bit!). If it's showing 2 bar at idle, and 3 bar at speed while warm, that engine has a very healthy bottom end and oil pump. I've had cars that showed less than 0.3 bar at idle, and below 2 bar at 5000 RPM (that particular car told a lot of knock knock jokes, and the real oil pressure gauge I put in had a severe case of tourette's at idle, and looked like an alcoholic going through DTs at cruising speed).
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Apr 27, 2019 10:32
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STR posted:The PO didn't take good care of it, your best bet is to fix whatever it needs to stay legal on the road (and reliable), and just drive it. Enjoy it. Take it off road a bit. Get it dirty. Go camping. Do whatever it takes to make it trustworthy on trips, but don't make it a garage or show queen. Just use it the way it's meant to be used, stay up to date on maintenance, and use quality parts (preferably OEM) when you need to fix it. Speaking as a former 30-y-o Merc owner, I couldn't have put it better myself!
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Apr 27, 2019 11:55
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I'm going to go the other way and say fix it up good and proper. If I remove something from a car, I like to put it back on in as good shape as possible. Just be mindful that there's scope creep and there's SCOPE CREEP. Changing valve cover gaskets doesn't mean you should rebuild the whole engine, but you could, say, have the covers repainted. If you do head gaskets, have the heads rebuilt, but make sure the bottom end actually needs something before you start digging that out, etc etc.Pursesnatcher posted:The oil pressure gauge on my dash only goes from 0 to 3, and it pretty much just sits at 3 when running, but I guess it tells me all I need to know? When warm, it may drop a little at idle, but that's fine according to the owner's manual – so long as it shoots back up once I apply some gas. Yeah, this is how it's supposed to be. I'm pretty sure if you opened up the bottom end on this engine you'd find it looking nearly factory new, Mercedes didn't gently caress around when it came to durability back in those days.
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Apr 27, 2019 12:28
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Thanks again, guys. Yeah, the scope creep is real – I've got zero reason to suspect there's anything at all wrong in the lower end, and if I'm really honest, not much reason to think there's a lot that needs fixing up top either. As I think I mentioned early on, this thing has seen 32 new lifters and 16 new rocker arms go in and out since 2007, and one of the heads was taken out, cleaned up and machined before being put back in seven years and 28k miles ago. It gives me tics to know they only did the one, and there's nothing anywhere about which one (or which lifters and arms were swapped...), but yeah. I'll have a long hard look when I take the valve covers off, but most likely getting some new gaskets in there will help a lot with leaks and getting condensation into the exhaust. Running gear does have problems, but it's the engine I've fallen in love with. But I'm definitely putting it back together a little better each time I do something, and repainting the covers (old paint is literally peeling off) is absolutely one of the little things I'll do! STR posted:The oil pressure gauge sounds like it's at least somewhat reflecting reality (most "real" ones are still heavily dampened; it sounds like yours is, but at least it actually moves a bit!). If it's showing 2 bar at idle, and 3 bar at speed while warm, that engine has a very healthy bottom end and oil pump. Yep, this is pretty much me! I still get, very occasionally, some nasty valve slapping noises for a few seconds right after firing it up, which someone mentioned might be lack of oil pressure, I seem to recall. But the needle points in healthy directions all the time; maybe checking it out with a proper measuring tool at some point is a good idea anyway. Pursesnatcher fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 16:10
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I don't know how I missed this thread but I just binged it this evening. I love your truck! I got a kick out of you instrument cluster and light switch, its the same as my car. Do you have the IR keyless entry with the air powered locks? Anyways, on the distributor front check it out again in a year. When I bought my 91 300sl my cap looked exactly like that. I replaced it with the same Bosch parts and everything was great, for a year. Then the car left me stranded. I pulled off the cap and it was all wrecked again. This time I bought a Wells, I think, anyways cheap brand and it is working fine. I'm still a couple months from the year but It was 1/3 the price. This is on a six though and not the V8. For the oil leaks I would just go with the valve covers at this point and then a good clean. I think it was mentioned before but another spot of oil leak is the oil filter housing. Good luck!
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Apr 28, 2019 03:35
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Pursesnatcher posted:Yep, this is pretty much me! I still get, very occasionally, some nasty valve slapping noises for a few seconds right after firing it up, which someone mentioned might be lack of oil pressure, I seem to recall. But the needle points in healthy directions all the time; maybe checking it out with a proper measuring tool at some point is a good idea anyway. If you're not driving it at least every few days, I'm gonna call this normal. Oil has to get circulating, and if it's been sitting several days, it has very little anywhere except the oil pan. The crank and rod bearings will usually get oil first, the top end last. I forget if you've mentioned what kind of oil you're running, but synthetic claims to cling a lot better when sitting awhile. If you're not already running synthetic, it may help a bit. The exception would be if the timing chain were rattling, in which case you'd want to be looking at timing chain guides and tensioners (oh gently caress I just caused another chapter of scope creep, didn't I?). But that's a bit different sound vs some valve noise at startup. And the attitude you have - putting it back together a little better each time - is the best attitude for any DIY work (not just cars).
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Apr 28, 2019 08:03
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STR posted:Generally, bad head gaskets result in the engine consuming coolant, or the oil and coolant mixing, and generally exhaust gases entering the cooling system. I can't say I've heard of a head gasket causing an oil leak (except on Nissan timing covers This guy doesn't gently caress (with subarus).
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Apr 29, 2019 18:37
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... I should have added a "* Excluding Subarus and old ACVW / AC Porsche stuff" disclaimer, but it's a Mercedes thread, so... 
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Apr 30, 2019 07:30
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Laura-4-Lyfe posted:I don't know how I missed this thread but I just binged it this evening. I love your truck! I got a kick out of you instrument cluster and light switch, its the same as my car. Do you have the IR keyless entry with the air powered locks? Anyways, on the distributor front check it out again in a year. When I bought my 91 300sl my cap looked exactly like that. I replaced it with the same Bosch parts and everything was great, for a year. Then the car left me stranded. I pulled off the cap and it was all wrecked again. This time I bought a Wells, I think, anyways cheap brand and it is working fine. I'm still a couple months from the year but It was 1/3 the price. This is on a six though and not the V8. For the oil leaks I would just go with the valve covers at this point and then a good clean. I think it was mentioned before but another spot of oil leak is the oil filter housing. Good luck! Thank you! Nothing keyless or infrared about this truck, but thanks for the tip! I'll make sure to look underneath the cap again when I take off the valve covers. I have a hunch that this business with voltage not ending up in the spark plug might, over time, make some trouble at the distributor end, but I can't say why I think so. STR posted:If you're not driving it at least every few days, I'm gonna call this normal. Oil has to get circulating, and if it's been sitting several days, it has very little anywhere except the oil pan. The crank and rod bearings will usually get oil first, the top end last. I forget if you've mentioned what kind of oil you're running, but synthetic claims to cling a lot better when sitting awhile. If you're not already running synthetic, it may help a bit. Hahaha, no worries! The scope had already crept that far – my very first parts shipment of stuff included a couple of new guides, so the timing chain has long been on my mind! I initially thought one of the noises I heard early on came from there, but when I had a M117 wizard look at it, he told me the noise came from the valves. Plus, two separate mechanics who are supposedly experts on these things have told me the M117's chains generally last forever (and one of them is the guy I'd otherwise buy a new one from). If there doesn't turn out to be any hint of grooving inside the valve covers, I'm guessing those new chain guides will just remain in their box for some time yet. Anyway, to fix the valve slapping, my wizard flushed the whole thing with a few gallons of fresh oil and some secret sauce cleaning agent, which helped a lot. There's still a bit of that sauce in there, as it was supposed to stay in until the next full oil change one year later, and that's coming up, so. Only running the very best synthetic oil money can buy, at any rate! As for Subarus, I almost torched one this weekend moving some stuff to my house project. Fun stuff. Never seen the AC of a car spew black smoke before! Edit: Mandatory photo after fitting headlight grilles! 
Pursesnatcher fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 1, 2019 |
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May 1, 2019 10:29
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Pursesnatcher posted:I have a hunch that this business with voltage not ending up in the spark plug might, over time, make some trouble at the distributor end, but I can't say why I think so. I've been looking into this on my car and the best I can figure out is there is a ceramic plate between my distributor/rotor that keeps the ignition isolated from the engine. From what I have read it will form cracks that let electricity through. For my car this piece is NLA. This is all stuff I've gotten from forum posts over the last 15 years so I don't know how true it is. My little plate looks fine but who knows. I am currently rebuilding all the hydraulic cylinders for the top at the moment so the ignition system has not been on my mind. The new pic with the headlight guards looks great!
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May 3, 2019 06:26
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Some news, and a lot more questions! The parts shipment mule train is creeping closer, and I'm feeling all sorts of hyped about maybe getting some things fixed. Been thinking about maybe replacing the thermostat as well once I'm down in that area, since that's apparently a thing people do. I wasn't sure where to find it, though, so I had a look today, and realized they put it in a really convenient place. At least there's a big blocky thing that the main radiator hose works its way into, and it looks like it could conceivably be a thermostat housing. It's readily accessible even now, but looks like a proper bitch to remove, so I'll be leaving that well enough alone until I get a sense that it might be a problem. But! I did notice some other interesting things, especially this:  (click for huge) I cleaned my air filter housing well and good up before winter set in, using brake cleaner and pure acetone, and now it seems a bunch of nice white oxidation has started happening. That's fine; I can brush it up and make it shine somehow. But what on God's Green Earth is that greenish stuff down on the side, there? It's a sort of residue or something; it's not really stuck on there, it's more like small flakes, or bits of dust of... something. I could easily brush it away with my fingers, but I've never seen oxidation like that. Only thing the color reminds me of is coolant, but how could it end up way up there? Could leaked-out drops have vaporized, and somehow deposited themselves on top of the air filter housing before drying up? Anyway, I also ran the engine for a while to just get it heated up a bit, and just check the oil level. Same story with exhaust as before; lots of white probably-water-condensation smoke for a minute, and then perfectly invisible, like it's supposed to be. For the record, oil level was perfectly in the middle of "min" and "max" indicators on the stick, and the same dark brown it's been since I had it flushed last summer. But while running the engine, I realized one detail which has been bugging me tremendously while driving, pretty much since the very beginning: That lovely wonderful throaty V8 rumble? I can't hear it. When I get some revs, running down the highway, there's a high-pitched not-quite-whine inside the cabin which drowns out most of that wonderful deep engine bass. So I thought I could perhaps check with you guys. Here's a short video – the sound I'm talking about is clearly most pronounced inside the cabin, and definitely at its worst at high revs (see the beginning, when I put it up to 3000 rpm) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK7Y0W7OQ4c The sound follows the engine's RPM pretty much perfectly, and you can just make out the deeper sound of the actual engine beneath it. When you're behind or next to the car, it's still there, but not as bad as when you're sitting behind the wheel with the doors closed. I've been dreaming up all sorts of explanations, like "there's something with the gearbox" or "maybe something hydraulic" or even "that's just what it sounds like" (which is at least very wrong for the M113 from the newer G500), but I've really got no idea. My best guess, I think, due to the hairdryer-esque quality of the drat noise, is that it's coming from the main radiator fan. I understand that the M117 comes with a bimetal fan clutch, which is supposed to kick in at about 100 degrees C or so – which should tie the fan RPM 1:1 to the engine RPM to prevent overheating. Until you get that temperature, the fan should be going at 500 RPM constantly, give or take a hundred or so. But if that strip of metal is always "on", the fan would be going at the same speed as the engine all the time. On the other hand, I've had these weird almost-overheating situations where the engine gets real hot if I'm not moving forward quickly, so I've got a hard time thinking that's it. If it was, shouldn't it be cooling the engine a whole lot, all the time? I'm confused, and hope you all can share once more of your wisdom. Oh, and as an afterthought: When the valve covers look like poo poo, do I paint them, powder coat them, or have them ceramically coated inside and out when I'm taking them off to replace their gaskets? I've seen people go for the third option on the air intake manifold for better heat management, like I'll eventually do to my exhaust manifolds. But does it matter in the slightest?
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May 13, 2019 23:16
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Was the engine fully warm? That definitely sounds like the fan, but fan clutches also tend to drag when the engine is cold. They take a little bit to warm up and let the fan spin freely. When it was running hot, did you hear that same whine when you revved it? If not, your fan clutch may be done.
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May 13, 2019 23:36
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Fan clutches can make all sorts of funny noises when they're fubar. With the engine off and cold, reach in there and give it a spin. What does it do? Install a new fan clutch and glass packs OP.
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May 13, 2019 23:50
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I remember that noise! It is definitely your engine fan.
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May 13, 2019 23:56
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drat, thank you! It feels extremely satisfying to maybe have had the generally right idea about something, I've got to say angryrobots posted:Fan clutches can make all sorts of funny noises when they're fubar. With the engine off and cold, reach in there and give it a spin. What does it do? The fan? It doesn't do much, really. It just sits there. With a good amount of force I can drag it along an inch or two, but spinning it is out of the question. STR posted:Was the engine fully warm? Yep, I recorded this at roughly operating temperature. The sound is there all the time, no matter the temperature. Hang on, fans are supposed to spin freely? My electric ones do, of course, but they aren't mated neither to water pump nor belt contraptions.
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May 14, 2019 05:32
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When the engine is warm (but not super hot), yeah, you should be able to turn the fan by hand. It won't spin easily like an electric fan, but you should get a rotation or two out of it if you give it a good shove when the engine is warm (but not super hot, and not heat soaked from being parked for a little bit immediately after getting off the highway). When it's cold, it'll have a lot of drag for the first few minutes (so you'll hear it a bit). When it's super hot, it should be pretty much locked to the water pump and absolutely screaming. Kinda like what it's doing now. Since it's sounding like a really expensive hair dryer it all the time, yeah, your fan clutch is done. But that wouldn't cause the engine to run hot. I think I remember you mentioning it needed a radiator anyway, right, from the old one being cracked? It's possible the new radiator will help out quite a bit if it's clogged. Thermostat wouldn't hurt either, it may not be opening fully. Getting the fan clutch replaced should help your fuel usage significantly too. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 06:06 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 06:03
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What do the caution lines between 50-60kph indicate?
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May 14, 2019 06:31
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Hahaha, thanks STR! Seems clutches aren't terribly expensive, so I'll replace that too then. Fan is going out of the car anyway, so might as well. But I'll try spinning it when it's shut down, but at operating temps. I think it's going to be as sticky as it is when cold, but we'll see. As for thermostat, the bit I think is its housing has at least two wires plugged into it as well as thick hoses on either end, one of which is just maybe an inch long. Hoses get nice and hot, so it's at least opening somewhat, but maybe not fully. If it's built on the same bimetal principle as the dead clutch, that seems very plausible to me. Drat Previa_fun posted:What do the caution lines between 50-60kph indicate? Maybe some kind of Euro thing? I've seen it in lots of cars, never thought about it. I guess a "this is generally speed limit-safe" area, since most places are limited to 50-60.
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May 14, 2019 07:11
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Maybe something like the 55 mph marker in orange on a lot of US speedometers in the 80s? It was meant to be a "hey, this is the highway speed limit nationwide, and big brother figured out this is the most efficient speed to drive at" thing. Except 55 isn't the most efficient speed to drive at, at least today. Yeah, just because the hoses get hot doesn't mean it's opening fully. They're not usually bimetal - instead they normally have a wax pellet inside them that forces it open at a specific temp. Sometimes the springs break and leave it sitting in one position, sometimes something gets jammed in the spring and keeps it from opening fully, sometimes the wax pellet breaks free and no longer opens it at all. If you can get it out easily, toss it in a pot of boiling water - it should fully open pretty quickly (pretty much all of them are fully open before 100C). Don't use a nice pot for this, use a beat up one that you can clean easily (or don't care much about). There's probably a sensor on the housing for your dash temp gauge; it's a common place to put them. There's often another sensor for the engine computer's coolant temp sensor, normally plumbed into a head (one of the hottest parts of the cooling system). Don't know if yours has a separate sensor for the ECU or not, though. Fan clutches are normally pretty cheap (unless you're GM and toss a bunch of electronics in them!). The hard part about replacing them is not spinning the water pump while trying to break the fan clutch bolts loose (protip: make sure the belt is tightened properly before you try.. and even then you may need a way to try to keep the water pump from spinning)
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:21 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 08:18
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Previa_fun posted:What do the caution lines between 50-60kph indicate? AFAIK it's there to mark city driving speed. I think the idea is that you can quickly tell that the speedo needle is in that zone at a glance, so you don't have to take your eyes off the road, while driving in city traffic. My parent's first manual transmission 190D (1985) had shift points marked on the speedo, as well.
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May 14, 2019 08:20
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STR posted:Yeah, just because the hoses get hot doesn't mean it's opening fully. They're not usually bimetal - instead they normally have a wax pellet inside them that forces it open at a specific temp. Sometimes the springs break and leave it sitting in one position, sometimes something gets jammed in the spring and keeps it from opening fully, sometimes the wax pellet breaks free and no longer opens it at all. If you can get it out easily, toss it in a pot of boiling water - it should fully open pretty quickly (pretty much all of them are fully open before 100C). Don't use a nice pot for this, use a beat up one that you can clean easily (or don't care much about). This is actually all completely incorrect for a mercedes, assuming the fan clutch is anything like the one on my 84 300TD and the other mercedes I've worked on. They do use a bi-metalic strip in the fan clutch. When it heats up, it bends inward and pushes on a pin in the end of the clutch to divert the flow of fluid through the vanes causing it to lock up. Mine had slowly leaked the fluid out over time and started to not lock up very well, it also started to make a whining and rattling noise all the time. Since new ones from mercedes are almost $1000 and you don't buy parts from URO, I drilled a hole in the capped off port where they probably originally filled, refilled it, and put a pipe plug in its place. I filled it with this stuff and to this day (3 years later) it still works great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SLOW7I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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May 14, 2019 11:51
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I think he was talking about the thermostat in that segment? Other than that uh yeah it ain't cheap. Local dealer called me back and said he can get me an OEM one for $300, but digging deeper, it turns out the drat thing comes in two variants. That price is for the non-AMG version. I've got a nagging suspicion I'll need the AMG one (they're not interchangeable), which is $950, if he can find one in Germany. I've got parts numbers for both, and have to do some checking, but if my current clutch is not ø165mm, the non-AMG one is right out.  Sooo, anyone got any input on paint vs powder vs ceramics on those valve covers? Or that green residue, or anything else not depressingly expensive? :p
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May 14, 2019 15:25
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Wipe the green residue off and see if it comes back. Painting the valve covers yourself is pretty easy and much cheaper than the alternatives. If you want to get fancy, then go ahead and have them powdercoated 
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May 14, 2019 15:41
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