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Astro7x posted:Not sure what I have to use spoilers around in this thread, but just wanted to say that the general rules of time travel that they presented confused me. They absolutely could do that, but doing so would screw that alternate universe by removing BW or Tony before they did the sacrifice. Like, if you pull BW before she sacrifices herself, that alternate universe you've just created now doesn't have Hawkeye get the Soul Stone, so they can't undo the snap. If you pull Tony before he makes the snap, Thanos wins in that alternate universe. You'd be fine in your universe, but you'll have created an alt universe just to doom it. It'd be an incredibly selfish thing to do just to hang out with a copy of your friend. The biggest problem I have with the time travel scenario in this movie is Cap sitting on the bench at the end. It would have made way more sense for him to teleport back as an old man, having lived his life and then come back to that point when he was done (as someone pointed out earlier, not my original thought). Maybe we've just always been living in the alt universe where Cap stayed behind.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:35
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It's a special moment. Its three-hour runtime feels almost cramped, with how much is happening, how much that has been built over the last ten years finally comes together. Even now, I'm getting chills just thinking about how everything that happened came together. It's a singular meta-filmmaking achievement I don't think we'll soon see topped. I doubt the "cinematic universe" idea can sustain itself another ten years to pull all this together again, and there's nobody currently even close to putting something like together now. Ignoring the quality of the film itself (it's good!!) this moment in movie history is something to treasure.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:36
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So whats the deal with 2014 Gamora? The Gamora of the original timeline is dead...is the 2014 Gamora just gonna hang out? Lose 5 years of her life? Find out she's supposed to be in love with a random guy she probably holds in contempt? Are they gonna send her back to her timeline to like...do everything the normal way the timeline is supposed to go with Thanos? Thus condemning her to be murdered by her father again? There's no satisfactory answer. SMG is right that the second you start down this hole, you realize there's all sorts of ethical dilemmas and they only get worse the more you think about them.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:38
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Mike N Eich posted:So whats the deal with 2014 Gamora? The Gamora of the original timeline is dead...is the 2014 Gamora just gonna hang out? Lose 5 years of her life? Find out she's supposed to be in love with a random guy she probably holds in contempt? Are they gonna send her back to her timeline to like...do everything the normal way the timeline is supposed to go with Thanos? Thus condemning her to be murdered by her father again? Yeah I was wondering that as well as when her sister shoots her 2014 self. I was wondering if there was any imprecations but it was just ignored. So does that mean that there was a split in the timeline since now 2014 thanos is dead so the majority of poo poo didn't happen? Did he have a clone? I wish instead of being so convoluted they would just leave thanos dead, have the leftover act be the first half of the move and the desperation time heist be the second but end up having the other half of the avengers die from thanos click.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:00
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Mike N Eich posted:So whats the deal with Knowing Marvel, He'll track her down, she'll be a different person, and they'll go on some dumb adventure that leaves the possibility of them getting back
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Apr 29, 2019 18:01
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Ghost Head posted:I wonder how much say the directors had in not only using Captain Marvel but how they used her. I seem to remember a while back they were asked during an interview about the sort of outrageously powerful versions of these characters that are in the comic books and they basically said that having them that strong leads to muddled storytelling or something. And sure enough Captain Marvel arrives in the movie as a completely unstoppable force of nature and everyone is sitting around after the movie going "why didn't she just do x". They're probably fairly pissed they had to use her. They'll probably go the superman route in the future where she has to spend time saving civilians or there is inexplicably one bad guy who can match her blow for blow.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:10
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Or they'll just give her problems she can't punch.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:11
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thrawn527 posted:They absolutely could do that, but doing so would screw that alternate universe by removing BW or Tony before they did the sacrifice. Like, if you pull BW before she sacrifices herself, that alternate universe you've just created now doesn't have Hawkeye get the Soul Stone, so they can't undo the snap. If you pull Tony before he makes the snap, Thanos wins in that alternate universe. You'd be fine in your universe, but you'll have created an alt universe just to doom it. It'd be an incredibly selfish thing to do just to hang out with a copy of your friend. But didn't they create an alternate universe where Thanos time jumped to the future and never did the snap? You could argue that the timeline without Thanos doesn't need Tony or BW because Thanos is gone. Speaking of which... Mike N Eich posted:So whats the deal with 2014 Gamora? The Gamora of the original timeline is dead...is the 2014 Gamora just gonna hang out? Lose 5 years of her life? Find out she's supposed to be in love with a random guy she probably holds in contempt? Are they gonna send her back to her timeline to like...do everything the normal way the timeline is supposed to go with Thanos? Thus condemning her to be murdered by her father again? It's unclear, because Gamora is from the Timeline that Thanos left and never returned because he got killed. So she has nothing to go back to. The ending was unclear with Peter scanning for Gamora and not finding her. Did she turn into dust with the snap that got rid of Thanos? Did she return to her own timeline somehow? Is she just hiding in the current timeline where she just saw her dad and sister get killed?
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Apr 29, 2019 18:12
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Captain Marvel vs Childhood Obesity
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Apr 29, 2019 18:13
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Mulva posted:Or they'll just give her problems she can't punch. No such thing
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Apr 29, 2019 18:14
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Mike N Eich posted:So whats the deal with 2014 Gamora? The Gamora of the original timeline is dead...is the 2014 Gamora just gonna hang out? Lose 5 years of her life? Find out she's supposed to be in love with a random guy she probably holds in contempt? Are they gonna send her back to her timeline to like...do everything the normal way the timeline is supposed to go with Thanos? Thus condemning her to be murdered by her father again? Y'know, they're making a Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3. They'll probably address it.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:15
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fishing with the fam posted:Captain Marvel vs Childhood Obesity She can photon blast the flabby bellies.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:17
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Astro7x posted:But didn't they create an alternate universe where Thanos time jumped to the future and never did the snap? You could argue that the timeline without Thanos doesn't need Tony or BW because Thanos is gone. I'm not sure how they'd go back to that specific alternate universe created by removing Thanos. Though I guess that's what Cap is doing at the end, going back to the alternate universes created by removing the stones, and I've gone cross-eyed.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:20
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thrawn527 posted:and I've gone cross-eyed. Otherwise there's a rogue 2014 alternaverse out there
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Apr 29, 2019 18:29
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Instead of the third act being fighting Thanos it’s the Avengers begin to infight after getting the gauntlet. Hulk is about to put on the Gauntlet: “Ok so I bring everyone back to now, we don’t lose any of the progress of the past five years, and functional communism” Tony and Cap: “Communism?” Hulk: “Yeah I thought—“ Tony: “Space shield. We need the space shield.” Hawkeye: “What about improved infrastructure? Our bridges and roads are crumbling” Thor: “What if beer were healthy?” *everyone gets quiet, eyes the gauntlet, fighting ensues, first as a little push and shove but it quickly escalates*
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Apr 29, 2019 18:31
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Dren posted:Instead of the third act being fighting Thanos it’s the Avengers begin to infight after getting the gauntlet. Hulk is about to put on the Gauntlet: “Ok so I bring everyone back to now, we don’t lose any of the progress of the past five years, and functional communism” The Gang Gives Back
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Apr 29, 2019 18:35
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I thought all the time travel stuff made sense within the rules the movie set for itself. You can't change your own present because you'd run into paradoxes (can't time travel back to stop yourself from time traveling, etc), so anytime you change poo poo it creates a branching timeline that moves forward with all the poo poo you changed. You yourself can only go forward into the same future you left from. That's why killing baby Thanos won't help them, he still already existed and did the snap in their timeline. Ancient One's point wasn't that the stones need to be returned to "fix" the one and only timeline. She was saying that these branching timelines will need these stones in their futures or they'll be doomed by whatever would happen without the Stones there to save them (Strange will eventually use the Time Stone to stop Dormammu, the Mind Stone will be needed to create Scarlet Witch & Vision, etc) and that giving them away to someone who might not return them is irresponsible to the trillions of lives moving forward in this new branching timeline. FilthyImp posted:You'll have to believe Tony's snap removed Thanos and Co from our time, restored them to a point before Nebula1.0 had her quantum entanglement freakout/erased the knowledge of Future Time, and his No More Thanos wish keeps the timeline intact. There's a bunch of rouge alternaverses out there, and there's nothing they can do about it now. There's an alt-2012 where Loki escaped with the Space Stone and Cap lost a fight to himself. There's an alt-2013 where Jane was attacked by a raccoon with a syringe. There's an alt-2014 where Thanos & his army entered a time portal and were never heard from again. Etc, etc. Hobo Clown fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 18:36
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FilthyImp posted:
At the end of the film there's at least five alternate universes. And that's fine.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:38
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Dren posted:Instead of the third act being fighting Thanos it’s the Avengers begin to infight after getting the gauntlet. Hulk is about to put on the Gauntlet: “Ok so I bring everyone back to now, we don’t lose any of the progress of the past five years, and functional communism” This is great. I laughed.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:39
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I agree with that Thor. #TeamThor
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Apr 29, 2019 18:42
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live with fruit posted:Y'know, they're making a Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3. They'll probably address it. lol sure they will
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Apr 29, 2019 18:46
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I had fun guessing what scenes were shot with actors interacting with tennis balls (all of them)
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Apr 29, 2019 18:47
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i absolutely love time travel stories, but they require a level of commitment that just was not on display here
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Apr 29, 2019 18:52
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Steve2911 posted:At the end of the film there's at least five alternate universes. And that's fine. ok trying to count them 1) Loki escapes with the cube universe 2) Thanos disappears in 2014 universe 3) Evidence of a shield break in/Howard got parenting advice universe(I'd presume fairly minor differences there) 4) Prime Universe What's the fifth? Cap fucks Peggy universe? But that didn't change anything because Old Cap is sitting there having aged naturally in our universe. Oh wait, unless as soon as the Hulk presses the button and we see Cap disappear, we are no longer looking at the prime universe, the camera cut back to the new universe, which, much like the 1970 universe is functionally almost identical because Cap tried not to change things. In the prime universe, Cap just never comes back at all, OR a different Cap from the next universe up and was Peggy's husband all along, turtles all the way down. That strangely makes a lot of sense.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:01
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Venuz Patrol posted:i absolutely love time travel stories, but they require a level of commitment that just was not on display here How so? I thought it was explained pretty well and they didn't seem to break their own rules until Old Steve showed up at the end, but there are ways to explain that if they needed to. AlBorlantern Corps posted:
My guess is that he just hung on to his quantum doohickey and returned to his prime timeline when Peggy died of old age or he felt the time was right or whatever. With everything we know about Steve from these movies it's safe to say that he would not be cool with either (a)deceiving Peggy and letting her work for Hydra unknowingly or (b)sitting idly around when there were people he could've helped. The new alt-1970s (or 1940s?) timeline has a bunch of Steve Rogers/Peggy Carter world-saving adventures we'll never know about. Hobo Clown fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 19:02
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I wish we would have seen the scene of Captain America re-injecting Natalie Portman with red poo poo.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:06
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Dren posted:Instead of the third act being fighting Thanos it’s the Avengers begin to infight after getting the gauntlet. Hulk is about to put on the Gauntlet: “Ok so I bring everyone back to now, we don’t lose any of the progress of the past five years, and functional communism” TBH this post is better than the actual movie
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Apr 29, 2019 19:09
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RatHat posted:TBH this post is better than the actual movie During scuffle it falls out the window right onto the open hand of Avengers HQ normal human security guard, Paul Blart
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Apr 29, 2019 19:12
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The screenwriters did an interview. Spoilers, obviously. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movies/avengers-endgame-explainer.html
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Apr 29, 2019 19:13
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They only needed one time jump/return trip. Send Thor to Wakanda 2017 and have him aim for the head.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:18
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Hobo Clown posted:
Thinking about it, this is mostly likely how Loki can return to the 'regular' universe. Also, on Nebula: She knew that either Black Widow or Hawkeye had to die. In fact she probably pushed the idea of Vormir being so terrible so that only those two would go
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Apr 29, 2019 19:22
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Mike the TV posted:Thinking about it, this is mostly likely how Loki can return to the 'regular' universe. Captain America should have gone and he should have punched red skeleton in the face and thrown him off the cliff e: The sacrifice he'd have to give up is his love for punching nazis RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 19:25
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:They only needed one time jump/return trip. Send Thor to Wakanda 2017 and have him aim for the head. Wouldn't work within the rules the movie sets for itself. Going back and killing Thanos in 2017 would mean they never eventually invent time travel which means they never go back and kill Thanos in 2017 which means... (etc etc). Changing something in the past just creates a divergent timeline. So that timeline would have a happy pre-snap ending but the prime timeline that we're watching and following would still have half of everyone gone. Mike the TV posted:Thinking about it, this is mostly likely how Loki can return to the 'regular' universe. Honestly I'd be completely on board if the Loki show becomes him Quantum Leaping into all the different Marvel Timelines and seeing the different outcomes of their time travel shenanigans.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:25
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Mahoning posted:I wish we would have seen the scene of Captain America re-injecting Natalie Portman with red poo poo. We need the scene of Cap going to Vormir to put the Soul stone back. Red Skull is still there so cap is like “So how do I put this back?” and Red Skull unspeakingly opens his mouth. Cap slides the stone into Red Skull’s mouth, Red Skull’s jaw closes, then unhinges and opens extremely wide. Black Widow crawls out.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:34
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I liked the movie and thought it was good
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Apr 29, 2019 19:36
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Hobo Clown posted:Wouldn't work within the rules the movie sets for itself. Going back and killing Thanos in 2017 would mean they never eventually invent time travel which means they never go back and kill Thanos in 2017 which means... (etc etc). Changing something in the past just creates a divergent timeline. So that timeline would have a happy pre-snap ending but the prime timeline that we're watching and following would still have half of everyone gone. No no, I know that wouldn't change anything. It's an alternate universe. Aim for the head. Say 'Hi Thor I'm fat Thor I need to borrow this for a second", gank the gauntlet, go bring everybody back, then return the gauntlet to 2017. They created 5 divergent timelines in this and all got home just fine
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Apr 29, 2019 19:36
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Venuz Patrol posted:i absolutely love time travel stories, but they require a level of commitment that just was not on display here An idea that I had read before was that nobody was truly dusted out of existence like Thanos said. Instead, it would have created two realities with 50% of the population living in each. And the Quantum Realm would have been the link between those two.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:39
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I'm a little disappointed that we never found out what exactly happened on Titan and why the planet was so messed up
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Apr 29, 2019 19:39
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:No no, I know that wouldn't change anything. It's an alternate universe. Aim for the head. Say 'Hi Thor I'm fat Thor I need to borrow this for a second", gank the gauntlet, go bring everybody back, then return the gauntlet to 2017. They created 5 divergent timelines in this and all got home just fine The original plan though was that they were all supposed to be snatched secretly, and returned secretly. That didn't really work out though, so there are some background shenanigans that the movie didn't address.
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Apr 29, 2019 19:40
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Hobo Clown posted:How so? I thought it was explained pretty well and they didn't seem to break their own rules until Old Steve showed up at the end, but there are ways to explain that if they needed to. There's the obvious answer, which is that the time travel was transparently written as a ploy for nostalgia. The more complex answer: the specific rules of time travel don't matter much to me, but following through on them after they're established is important. Endgame pretends that paradoxes are a problem at first, but quickly shows that it doesn't matter how you gently caress around with a timeline as long as you give the infinity stones back eventually. If you think about the possibilities that stem from this, particularly if you take the same stance the heroes apparently do that alternate realities created from said loving around aren't worth caring about, this movie could have been a hell of a lot more fun. the mid-movie retcon over what they can do in the past still could have been good if they had continued escalating things, but instead steve and stark go straight back to pretending they can't touch anything they're not supposed to in 1970. they should have gone in guns blazing! paradoxes are fake and almost everyone who works at this base is a nazi double agent, so who cares. go hog wild
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Apr 29, 2019 19:52
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