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System Metternich posted:This is something I've always wondered about tabletop WoD (which I've never played myself): What are good in-game justifications for your typical coterie to get going? The old D&D cliché of "you are all sitting in a bar when suddenly [whatever]" seems hardly applicable to vampires, and I have a hard time believing that a prince or primogen would suddenly start to send out a random assortment of neonates from different clans onto missions. Well, there's a lot of different ways. Since everybody's usually playing neonates I often start with something like "Your sire owes the Prince a favor for making you, so now you get to pay off the debt and it's a group effort." So they learn to work together and realize that actually being a standard PC group that can actually trust each other* puts them at a tremendous advantage over every other coterie. You can also narrow it down a bit more, like you're all playing the city's Harpies (which are for lack of a better term the Mean Girls of vampire society) if you want a lot of socializing or you're the Sheriff's thugs if you want a combat heavy game. That's for a Camarilla game. In a Sabbat game it's easier, as they're already divided into PC-style groups with their packs. *Unless you're playing a back-stabbing game or whatever but I don't run those. They're not fun for me to run or play.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:01
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Clan Tremere has hosed with A LOT of people and made a whole mess of friends that want them all dead for every reason you can think of. Even beyond bloodsucker politicking, Tremere has made an enemy of almost every kind of vampire possible.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:02
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To recap: -They used blood from captured Tzimisce Elders to make their "turn me into a vampire" potion, -Hermetic Mages (which they belonged to) are still very much aware they exist and would rather they do not, -They destroyed the Salubri, leaving a few pissed-off survivors with little in common with the clan they once were, -They have their own Antitribu clan in House Goriatrix, aligned with the Sabbat, -In their war against the Tzimisce, they used captured Nosferatu and Gangrel to experiment and create another artificial bloodline to serve as servants, the Gargoyles, -The Gargoyles rebelled, -They joined the Camarilla, prompting the ire of every clan with a beef with the power structure, -They cursed the Assamites to stop them from being diablerists, -And their founder Tremere is actually Saulot in his body because diablerizing an Antediluvian is never a good idea. Half of vampirekind hates them because they're amoral mad scientists and backstabby little bastards even by Kindred standards, and the other only put up with them because Thaumaturgy is disgustingly powerful and versatile.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:14
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I guess this explains why when I played Bloodlines everyone I talked to was making GBS threads on Strauss who I liked a lot. He's the only person besides the Anarchs who never lies to you or tries to have you killed. Plus I don't like the... "mundane" approach of the Anarchs or Lacroix. Strauss actually seemed to treat vampirism as something mystical and I am all for that. Granted, I don't think Strauss is old enough to have done any of the previously listed stuff anyway.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:23
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He did make his own Gargoyle, which reacts appropriately at the mention of anything Tremere. Anarchs dislike them because they're one of the main assets of the Camarilla and are pretty unwavering supporters, on account of the fact that everyone would kill them if they didn't have that particular protection.
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Apr 30, 2019 00:29
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YaketySass posted:He did make his own Gargoyle, which reacts appropriately at the mention of anything Tremere. Yeah, creating a Gargoyle is pretty heinous as an act. You take a Gangrel, Nosferatu or a Tzimiscie and then strip mine their identity to replace with a more appropriate one to serve Clan Tremere and also turn them into a Gargoyle. (Granted, in the case of a Nosferatu it's kind of a side-grade, but they still lose who they were.)
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Apr 30, 2019 00:32
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YaketySass posted:To recap: They also - Goratrix briefly tried to manipulate religious orders, including the Knights Templar to steal relics of power and secrets from the Vatican. This hosed up, got the Templar branded as heretics and is the reason why Tremere kicked Goratrix out. The Templar secretly still exist of course, and have a special hatred for the Blood Mages if anyone remembers this specific part of their history. - Clan Tremere has hundreds of thousands of known and unknown little secret societies and cults that get involved in god knows what including: 1: The Covenant: a group that wants to "acquire" the secrets of Necromancy to mix it with Blood Magic, which means loving around with The Giovanni, The Samdi, any surviving Cappodocians and The Nagaraja aka Pisha's bloodline. 2: The Order of the Wyrm: Tremere that have hosed around in the umbra to discover The Wyrm and want to find out ways to fight off it and Gehenna. This typically involves antagonizing Lupines even further "borrowing" their lore and possibly mucking about with the Baali. - Due to their love of mingling and creating occult societies, they tend to operate Masquerade illegal Blood Cults, where they indoctrinate mortals to be willing herds to feed on. Tremere aren't the only vampires guilty of this poo poo, but its the kind of thing that gets Inquisition attention REAL fast. - Due to their insistence of having some kind of presence in India, The Inner Council tends to use Blood Bond slavery on low ranking Ravnos and Nosferatu to create Trimira loyal to them. - Because the Tremere still go through the process of making sure EVERY member of the clan is partially Blood Bonded to the Inner Circle Elders in their initiation, there is a high chance that newley embraced neonates commit suicide or go crazy and could gently caress poo poo up if they got out of their little wizard pad.
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Apr 30, 2019 01:29
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Ferrinus posted:A starting Werewolf: the Apocalypse character has better combat bonuses than a starting Vampire: the Masquerade character, but something like the Celerity 5 Potence 5 combat monster that an endgame VtM:B character could easily be should have been able to just fight the werewolf to a standstill, if not straight-up overpower and dismantle it. A vampire with celerity 5 and potence 5 could kill a werewolf, but they're a glass cannon compared to the werewolf even if they have stamina 5 and fortitude 5. They can dish it out, but they can't take it. The werewolf on the other hand can take shots that would smear a kindred across the floor and come back for more. EDIT: Now Elder vampires, with 6+ level disciplines, now those can take out a werewolf without much problem. An strong methuselah like Melinda Galbraith might be able to take on a whole pack. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 02:10
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So it seems Histories are coming back for Bloodlines 2 and that's cool. My Gangrel History (Insectoid) was a huge inspiration for my RP. But I loaded up Bloodlines 1 again to look at Toreador Histories to get RP ideas and I'm glad "Slut" for females probably won't be returning for Bloodlines 2. Neither will Male Gangrel's Pervert History. Both give you extra blood from draining the opposite sex but "Slut" Toreador are also really stupid it says. (more or less)
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Apr 30, 2019 02:30
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NikkolasKing posted:So are Werewolves in the "regular game" 10 feet tall juggernauts who can rip a vampire apart no problem? They're pretty drat cool. I don't know why frilly lace vampires and mages get all the nerd-chat and nobody ever talks about werewolves. Maybe they're the WoD jocks? The only WoD RPG I've ever played was Werewolf. It was pretty boss being a group of fanged death machines even in the stupid bullshit unbalanced WoD "system." That meant that when I saw the one in Bloodlines for the very first time I knew exactly how hosed I was and it made the scene really memorable. I panicked and ran around like a chicken with its head cut off holding down the trigger until the gun went "click." Must have died six times before finding out the way to win. My roommate watched me play and laughed his rear end off. Also if you ask me it's super  that after you go through that Nines is just like "heh nothing personnel" about the other wolf. He comes across more tool than cool there, you ask me.
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Apr 30, 2019 03:09
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SuperKlaus posted:They're pretty drat cool. I don't know why frilly lace vampires and mages get all the nerd-chat and nobody ever talks about werewolves. Maybe they're the WoD jocks? The only WoD RPG I've ever played was Werewolf. It was pretty boss being a group of fanged death machines even in the stupid bullshit unbalanced WoD "system." That meant that when I saw the one in Bloodlines for the very first time I knew exactly how hosed I was and it made the scene really memorable. I panicked and ran around like a chicken with its head cut off holding down the trigger until the gun went "click." Must have died six times before finding out the way to win. My roommate watched me play and laughed his rear end off. Werewolves in WoD are pretty loving awesome. I'm very eager to learn more about them when I have money to get books later this week. As for Nines, I thought he was a goner. He spends a few minutes crapping himself about Werewolves and then actually gets jumped by one. I think it's reasonable to guess he died. Do you only even learn he's alive if you side with the Anarchs?
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Apr 30, 2019 03:18
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Played Vampire first, but played Werewolf for a lot longer. Our pack got caught up in a Indiana Jones style archaeology race for various artifacts around the world, with our opponents being a coterie of Vamps. They had minions and money and could access mundane information sources a lot easier, we has the muscle and claws and a better spiritual connection to the loot. We got most of the artifacts, and the final battle was a lot like last night's GoT with an army of undead storming a Fianna castle defended by a half dozen Werewolves and a dozen kinfolk. Good times.
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Apr 30, 2019 03:45
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SuperKlaus posted:They're pretty drat cool. I don't know why frilly lace vampires and mages get all the nerd-chat and nobody ever talks about werewolves. Maybe they're the WoD jocks? The only WoD RPG I've ever played was Werewolf. It was pretty boss being a group of fanged death machines even in the stupid bullshit unbalanced WoD "system." That meant that when I saw the one in Bloodlines for the very first time I knew exactly how hosed I was and it made the scene really memorable. I panicked and ran around like a chicken with its head cut off holding down the trigger until the gun went "click." Must have died six times before finding out the way to win. My roommate watched me play and laughed his rear end off. To reiterate what I said before, oWolf is explicitly about being eco-fascists who want to commit mass genocide on humanity and fight against the EVIL CORPORATION except the evil includes vaccines and flouridated water, and also your mission is doomed before it started. So. There's that.
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Apr 30, 2019 03:56
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I think New WOD Werewolf, Forsaken, is all about maintaining a balance between spirit and material world like Father Wolf and fighting off rogue spirit hosts and Idigam, or alien concepts of things that do not yet exist and are basically a danger to reality as we know it. Like they decide that the concept of smell should become a series of numbers or what the gently caress ever and can actually alter reality to set up that new rule no matter what it breaks in the process. Wolves aren't really bound to the moon per say and can change between forms at any time, but its easier if they follow the cycle of their auspice.
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Apr 30, 2019 04:33
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NikkolasKing posted:As for Nines, I thought he was a goner. He spends a few minutes crapping himself about Werewolves and then actually gets jumped by one. I think it's reasonable to guess he died. Do you only even learn he's alive if you side with the Anarchs? You get to speak to him when you side with the Anarchs, or give him the finger at the end as he tries to recruit you if you go independent.
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Apr 30, 2019 05:10
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As I understand it, in the same way that nVamp really focuses on you doing Vampire Politics and worrying about keeping your own personal stranglehold on your section of the city tight because you gotta eat, nWolf really focuses on you Having Turf that you need to patrol, Dealing With Spirits all the time, and Beating the poo poo out of your rear end in a top hat Relatives.
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Apr 30, 2019 05:15
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Basically. There’s also essentially no court intrigue - the pack is as sacred as family unless you’re playing as one of the Pure (in NWoof, “pack” can include both non-lyncanthropic blood relatives and friends). Everybody in it is naturally inclined to work with and care about one another.
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Apr 30, 2019 05:57
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Crabtree posted:I think New WOD Werewolf, Forsaken, is all about maintaining a balance between spirit and material world like Father Wolf and fighting off rogue spirit hosts and Idigam, or alien concepts of things that do not yet exist and are basically a danger to reality as we know it. Like they decide that the concept of smell should become a series of numbers or what the gently caress ever and can actually alter reality to set up that new rule no matter what it breaks in the process. Wolves aren't really bound to the moon per say and can change between forms at any time, but its easier if they follow the cycle of their auspice. It doesn't help that even "benign" spirits still want nothing but to eat. If a spirit of healing runs out of sick people to heal, or just doesn't think there's enough to sate themselves, well, it's gonna start finding ways to make more. nWolf rules, but also has almost nothing to do with actual werewolves or common werewolf mythology.
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Apr 30, 2019 06:42
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It’s more or less as close to common werewolf mythology as going into battle with the wereshark that guards the toxic waste dump
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Apr 30, 2019 06:47
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Why would a werewolf fight a rokea? Why would a rokea guard a waste dump? Werewolf doesn't get a lot of chat because it is hella problematic and has a bunch of Weird Sex Stuff and other very 90's silliness. It makes it hard to discuss without looking like as big a weirdo as I'm about to. For example - 1. Rokea (the weresharks) are constsntly super horny on land because they have few/almost no homid kin, so gaia makes them wanna bone more than anything whenever they're on dry land. 2. Kinfolk, people relsted to but not actively Garou. Who are basically just a giant group of battered wives/husbands used for breeding stock in most of the tribes. This is a very prominent part of garou culture, and there sre whole communities, worldwide, where the kinfolk live in what is essentially a Koresh style compound/housing group that serves werewolf needs at all times and raises the kids. 3. In addition to the whole kinfolk ordealx theres a concept of Pure Breed which is basically just a eugenics inspired blood purity that means you're related by blood to ancient heroes, so everyone just knows that you're better. It also effects, and this is explained in great detail, how often your kids are garou, modified by the pure breed level of the kinfolk you bang. 4. Fomor. The agents of the wyrm come in all sorts of varieties of sin and indulgence. So the core book for playing wyrm pcs or building wyrm antagonists has various SexCreepPowers like making your dick so big it tears people apart, or extrene vagina dentata. Those sre just some examples off the top of my head, but its full of tryhard edgelording at its finest, and it can really stain an already tenuously acceptable game. That said, werewolf owns when done well and you're playing the last tragic hero fighting a battle you knoe you've already lost, against an enemy that is literally the concept of destruction and corruption itself. Even si, the wyrm is a total punk compared to the cthinic entities some Neohandi worship, or even some things from the Abyss that the Lasombra worship. And its a total punk compared tot he Weaver who has been playing the Wyrm since, literally, before time began as a concept.
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Apr 30, 2019 07:57
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I hope VtMB2 lists crucial character stats such as anal circumference
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Apr 30, 2019 10:50
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NikkolasKing posted:
In both versons of WoD, Vampires are very focussed on the material world. They don't really get any powers to observe or travel to any other dimensions or worlds. It's espeically noticeable in nWoD where most of the other splats have at least one extra realm they can travel to: Werewolves - the Shadow, Changeling - the Hedge, Sin Eaters - the Underworld, Mage - basically all of them. Vampires are very isolated in comparison.
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Apr 30, 2019 11:17
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Does anyone have links to a spectacularly good play by post or otherwise written-up playthrough of Vampire, Mage, or Werewolf? Preferably nWoD because I know nothing about oWoD?
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Apr 30, 2019 11:55
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QuarkJets posted:I hope VtMB2 lists crucial character stats such as anal circumference Alas, the game learning lessons from FATAL seems unlikely.
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Apr 30, 2019 12:49
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ProfessorCirno posted:To reiterate what I said before, oWolf is explicitly about being eco-fascists who want to commit mass genocide on humanity and fight against the EVIL CORPORATION except the evil includes vaccines and flouridated water, and also your mission is doomed before it started. This is why the only halfway decent tribe are the Bone Gnawers, since they 1) have no Pure Breed so you avoid the racist undertones there, 2) are democratic, 3) only care about survival and place looking after their family first before themselves, and 4) refuse to take anything seriously. They have a drat Gift taught by the spirit of Elvis that makes people linedance and a ritual centered around arguing over what pizza to order.
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Apr 30, 2019 13:29
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citybeatnik posted:They have a drat Gift taught by the spirit of Elvis that makes people linedance and a ritual centered around arguing over what pizza to order.  Please elaborate, this sounds awesome!
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Apr 30, 2019 13:39
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citybeatnik posted:They have a drat Gift taught by the spirit of Elvis that makes people linedance and a ritual centered around arguing over what pizza to order.
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Apr 30, 2019 13:41
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CommissarMega posted:
 Bone Gnawers are the best tribe. Werewolf is a blast to play once you stop taking everything too seriously and just go over the top and enjoy the ride.
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Apr 30, 2019 14:05
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NikkolasKing posted:I guess this explains why when I played Bloodlines everyone I talked to was making GBS threads on Strauss who I liked a lot. Strauss is using you One of the plot-relevant insights you get during the Malkavian playthrough implies that Strauss is manipulating the Prince and may be the real mastermind behind the Camarilla in LA. He may be at least partially responsible for everything bad that happens to the Neonate. He's polite to you and you're supposed to like him, because he wants you to trust him and like him more than the Prince. Camarilla law is a big joke even to the Camarilla but The Prince was very convinced about what was in that sarcophagus (an Antediluvian, which is not supposed to exist) and was fully committed to diablerizing it, and both of those things are pretty big taboos in Camarilla society. Strauss is the Prince's biggest supporter in the city and almost certainly the kind of person who would be OK with diablerie, given that he's creating Gargoyles in 2004 It's possible Strauss is aware of what happened to Tremere (and also what didn't happen to the Tremere methuselahs) and was planning to wait until he could diablerise the prince in post-antediluvian Torpor Mirthless fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 14:35
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Angry Lobster posted:
Also, having Almighty Dollah as a pack totem. The problem (well, a problem) with Werewolf: The Apocalypse is that it takes the standard 'Clan Stereotype' method of coming up with PC subdivisions, and just loving runs it into the ground. You literally have 'Drunken Irish,' 'Lesbians Who Are Angry About The Penis,' 'Angry German Fascists,' 'Serene Oriental Martial Artists,' 'White Upper-Middle Class America,' 'Homeless Dudes,' 'Mystical Bond With Nature Native Americans' and 'Angry About The White Man Native Americans,' and so on.
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Apr 30, 2019 14:44
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The best Gift for the Bone Gnawers, at one time, was Cooking. You put a bunch of garbage and water into a container to serve as a pot, stick in a spoon, and transform the contents into a generic nutrient gruel. Early versions of the Gift weren’t written very tightly, which allowed you to drill a hole into an apartment, toss a candy wrapper and a splash of water inside, stick in a spoon, and turn everything and everyone inside into porridge.
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Apr 30, 2019 14:59
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Mirthless posted:Strauss is using you Then why does he only, like, "arrest" Lacroix and then put the Sarcophagus away forever? He knew you were going after Lacroix as siding with him entails going to his Chantry before you make your move. Unless he was gambling on you dying to The Sheriff and then Lacroix took the key off your corpse? That seems unlikely but I guess ti's vaguely feasible. I'm sure Strauss was indeed just using me but such is (un)life. As long as he doesn't actively try to get me killed or mistreat me in some way, why not work with him? The Camarilla is necessary for vampires,or at least that was what my PC concluded.
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Apr 30, 2019 15:04
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Everybody is using everybody, at least Strauss a) is polite about it and b) actually gives you nice things for payment.
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Apr 30, 2019 15:13
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Angry Lobster posted:Bone Gnawers are the best tribe. Werewolf is a blast to play once you stop taking everything too seriously and just go over the top and enjoy the ride. That's even better than I expected, and mechanically quite good too!
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Apr 30, 2019 15:37
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wiegieman posted:Everybody is using everybody, at least Strauss a) is polite about it and b) actually gives you nice things for payment. He only takes you seemingly seriously if you're Malkavian, and even then, he's just performing the song and dance most Tremere do to make themselves look like a pillar of the Camarilla and not as the schemers that could blood bond you into forver servitude to Tremere/His Personal interests only.
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Apr 30, 2019 15:39
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Yeah, Strauss is very much just trying to maintain the status quo, which is hard to do when the local prince thinks he's found an elder and wants to throw all the Camarilla's resources at it. If Strauss was truly using you, he'd have done something similar to the Ming Xiao ending. Instead he shows restraint even when you discover his gargoyle, even if you rat him out about it, all he does is banish you from the chantry.
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Apr 30, 2019 16:00
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Crabtree posted:He only takes you seemingly seriously if you're Malkavian, and even then, he's just performing the song and dance most Tremere do to make themselves look like a pillar of the Camarilla and not as the schemers that could blood bond you into forver servitude to Tremere/His Personal interests only. As vampire Winston Churchill might have said, "When you have to kill a Kindred, it costs nothing to be polite."
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Apr 30, 2019 16:13
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NikkolasKing posted:Then why does he only, like, "arrest" Lacroix and then put the Sarcophagus away forever? He knew you were going after Lacroix as siding with him entails going to his Chantry before you make your move. Unless he was gambling on you dying to The Sheriff and then Lacroix took the key off your corpse? That seems unlikely but I guess ti's vaguely feasible. Because diablerie is not actually against the laws of the Camarilla when the Prince does it (or during a Blood Hunt), and if Strauss wanted to stop (and was capable of stopping) the Prince, you'd be discussing the sarcophagus with Prince Strauss. I feel like even reading a few wikipedia pages would answer a lot of the questions you ask in this and the WoD thread.
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Apr 30, 2019 16:55
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Captain Monkey posted:Because diablerie is not actually against the laws of the Camarilla when the Prince does it (or during a Blood Hunt), and if Strauss wanted to stop (and was capable of stopping) the Prince, you'd be discussing the sarcophagus with Prince Strauss. It's pretty clear that Strauss was more powerful than LaCroix. He specifically says he has no interest in "such lowly heights" as the princedom, since his loyalty is primarily to his clan.
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Apr 30, 2019 17:14
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Strauss is the cool kid in the back of the class who can get everyone to be nice to the sub.
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Apr 30, 2019 17:17
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