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Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

Yeah, I'm just gonna continue negotiating with the other company and accept. Will just leave if they say say yes.

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Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
.

Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 3, 2019

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
That's hosed up and I hope you Glassdoor that poo poo!

SeXTcube
Jan 1, 2009

CPColin posted:

That's hosed up and I hope you Glassdoor that poo poo!
Ya that's the kind of behavior you name and shame for. Illegal and grossly unethical.

At least you found out how poo poo the company was straight away.

jeffery
Jan 1, 2013
The Company (lol)

obstipator
Nov 8, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

Symbolic Butt posted:

I had maybe the scummiest interview today. Interview begins: he asked for my salary expectation I immediately gave him a range and he was pissed at me for not being exact and not knowing what I wanted. After that he started asking some personal questions: my age, if I was married, my sexual orientation, if I drink...

I said I wasn't comfortable with the questions so we agreed on ending the interview there.

wtf no way

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
edit: you know what why even bother

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

is that common in brazil? thats illegal in most countries

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

hobbesmaster posted:

is that common in brazil? thats illegal in most countries

it is not, and I'm pretty sure at least 2 of those questions are illegal

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Are you sure you weren't being interviewed by the Brazilian president himself?

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

qhat posted:

Are you sure you weren't being interviewed by the Brazilian president himself?

bazinga

i interviewed a small consultancy place where one of the people on the panel was the co-ceo (flag) who lead off by asking if i had kids, talking about religion, poo poo like that.

Bored Online
May 25, 2009

We don't need Rome telling us what to do.
applied toa bunch of internships this morning. tried to stick with companies that have a track record for long contracts + internship extensions. can i get away with negotiating the duration if they interview and like me or is that just gonna tank my chances?

did a couple entry level position apps w pretty much no xp demands but those all listed triple digit applicants.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

Scott Baio Nudes posted:

applied toa bunch of internships this morning. tried to stick with companies that have a track record for long contracts + internship extensions. can i get away with negotiating the duration if they interview and like me or is that just gonna tank my chances?

did a couple entry level position apps w pretty much no xp demands but those all listed triple digit applicants.

if you try to negotiate the duration before they even make you an offer they might assume you have a hard requirement which is probably not something you want them to be misinformed about

Kudaros
Jun 23, 2006
This is my second round of applying to jobs after grad school (bit over a year since landing my first job) and it's been interesting.

I'm interested in either moving abroad and working on reasonably cool things , or making tons of money as quickly as possible. Applying for data science or ml research ish positions.

Procter and gamble has an initial assessment of the kind I've never seen before that appears to to amount to "how much of a snitch are you?" and it has "no wrong answers" (it definitely has wrong answers). It's strange to me that for positions like that they wouldn't want to at least talk about my projects, my phd, or whatever.

But reading this thread over the years has taught me that I don't even want most jobs, and applying while having a decent job is a liberating experience.


Also any experiences on getting a job as an American in western Europe? I'm mostly applying to some rather niche jobs with particular skillsets but also applied to some just for the hell of it. Seems like I'm less likely overall to get responses. Not sure if the experiences of, say, H1B jobs here maps well the other way around.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Kudaros posted:

Procter and gamble has an initial assessment of the kind I've never seen before that appears to to amount to "how much of a snitch are you?" and it has "no wrong answers" (it definitely has wrong answers).

as in 'how likely are you to blow the whistle'? if so: dish

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

the answers that get you the highest score are: snitch on your coworkers to the maximum amount and snitch to regulators to the minimum amount required by law

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


PCjr sidecar posted:

the answers that get you the highest score are: snitch on your coworkers to the maximum amount and snitch to regulators to the minimum amount required by law

rule of thumb is always ask your manager no matter how hosed up it is. that’s what they want to hear

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


I've done an assesment like that for a grad scheme with Centrica (UK energy supplier, rather scummy in various ways) and I did the whole corporate stooge thing

after they've told me that they have all the engineering positions filled but they'd have a spot for me in the marketing department

suffice to say I went with a tech multinational instead

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


I've done and immediately clicked off weird questionnaires that asked me directly if I was lonely and had friends of the opposite sex

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Private Speech posted:

I've done an assesment like that for a grad scheme with Centrica (UK energy supplier, rather scummy in various ways) and I did the whole corporate stooge thing

after they've told me that they have all the engineering positions filled but they'd have a spot for me in the marketing department

suffice to say I went with a tech multinational instead

technical marketing is fun though, it’s literally your job to tell product managers their product sucks and does not meet customer requirements because it’s a buggy underpowered piece of poo poo.

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

hobbesmaster posted:

technical marketing is fun though, it’s literally your job to tell product managers their product sucks and does not meet customer requirements because it’s a buggy underpowered piece of poo poo.

i was under the impression that the job of technical marketing was to cheerlead the gently caress out of your product, to the extent of advertising features that never existed and are often literally impossible, actual capabilities be damned

url
Apr 23, 2007

internet gnuru

hobbesmaster posted:

technical marketing is fun though, it’s literally your job to tell product managers their product sucks and does not meet customer requirements because it’s a buggy underpowered piece of poo poo.

florida lan posted:

i was under the impression that the job of technical marketing was to cheerlead the gently caress out of your product, to the extent of advertising features that never existed and are often literally impossible, actual capabilities be damned

this is kind of my wheelhouse with a lot of experience in this field.

It is definitely some from column a...

(a highlight of my experience was closing down a senior PM who wanted to claim that dual processors were a valid redundancy strategy in the event of failure caused by inter-stellar radiation)

url fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 7, 2019

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

florida lan posted:

i was under the impression that the job of technical marketing was to cheerlead the gently caress out of your product, to the extent of advertising features that never existed and are often literally impossible, actual capabilities be damned

i'm an FAE and the job is definitely to be two faced in that way, cheer lead to customers and paper over issues. internally you yell at PM/engineering and advocate for the customer

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

Looks like I'll be giving my notice this week. Will ask the faang one last time for a definitive answer before signing the offer from the other company. They agreed to give me 5k more which I'm pretty happy about.

What's this process usually like in real life? I'm gonna write up a letter thanking them and list my last day i guess? Guessing I should definitely turn down any counter offers since they're probably a trap?

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

counters aren't necessarily a trap but you gotta know what you're getting into

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
they're a trap in the sense of "if you wanted to stay you would have gone to your boss for a raise in the first place" and you'll usually be viewed as a flight risk after accepting one

in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

depends a lot on company culture, boss, etc. some (usually larger, bureaucratic) places it’s expected; other places take it an insult and a recipe to get hosed (usually small family businesses)

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


If you have any reservations about the intentions of your company at all, you should turn down the counter. It's a lot harder to do in practice, and it's all situational, but you should trust in your better judgement if you even 10% think they are only countering to avoid spending money recruiting your replacement.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Think about these two possible situations:

- You accept the matching counter and next year you ask for a raise.

- You go with the offer with the new company and next year you ask for a raise.

Which one do you think you are more likely to get?

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

good points. they gave me a sizeable raise awhile back but this new offer is already at the upper band at my current company. seems unlikely that I’d get another good raise unless they make me a lead, which seems unlikely since the company is shrinking.

should I tell them how much the offer is though? kind of curious to just see what they’d offer.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


Don't go fishing for a counter. You wanted a new job, you got one 'peace suckas'

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist

:dukedog:

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

Don't go fishing for a counter. You wanted a new job, you got one 'peace suckas'

another good point. I'm just gonna ride off into the sunset and go somewhere where I feel more appreciated :dukedog:

hayden.
Sep 11, 2007

here's a goat on a pig or something
If you're on the fence about the situation I'd strongly tend towards a new environment as long as you're confident the new workplace doesn't suck.

I'm a software developer, I do full stack web stuff. I quit my last job about 6 months ago as a senior engineer at a small company because I lost all motivation to work. I'm thinking it was maybe partially just a horrible boring project, but maybe also some other life circumstances.

I'm conflicted whether to get back to a senior dev role and make really good money, or to accept being poor and make half as much doing something that might make me feel less suicidal like project management. I've been applying to project and product management roles without much luck. I started applying to dev roles like a week ago and have been getting a ton of interest and immediate responses for interviews.

I wish I could find a specialty within software development that I find interesting and rewarding. Building websites is clearly not it. Maybe machine learning or buttchain type roles would be better? I know virtually nothing about either.

hayden. fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 8, 2019

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Acer Pilot posted:

good points. they gave me a sizeable raise awhile back but this new offer is already at the upper band at my current company. seems unlikely that I’d get another good raise unless they make me a lead, which seems unlikely since the company is shrinking.

should I tell them how much the offer is though? kind of curious to just see what they’d offer.

you could tell anyone that you wouldn't mind working with/for at the new place that pays significantly higher

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

hayden. posted:

I wish I could find a specialty within software development that I find interesting and rewarding. Building websites is clearly not it. Maybe machine learning or buttchain type roles would be better? I know virtually nothing about either.

ml is in high demand and hard to do right, but a lot of people find it fascinating. don't do it if you don't want to do a math tho

blockchain poo poo is in semi-high demand, afaict is easy and pays well, but also minimum 95% of companies based on it are doomed to die a quick death because blockchain poo poo is loving useless

also consider infrastructure software - databases, ci/cd poo poo, devops junk like kubernetes. there's plenty of work there, it's hard enough to be challenging in a good way (usually not soulcrushing, although it is software), most of the time no jabbascript or ui poo poo, and it looks hella good on your resume

barkbell
Apr 14, 2006

woof
how do I get into machine learning

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Arcsech posted:

blockchain poo poo is in semi-high demand, afaict is easy and pays well, but also minimum 95% of companies based on it are doomed to die a quick death because blockchain poo poo is loving useless

i know you’re hedging here but come on. 100%

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

if i was reviewing resumes and i saw a blockchain company in the employer list i would just toss that resume in the trash

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Rex-Goliath posted:

i know you’re hedging here but come on. 100%

hey now, some of them will pivot and have founders that are skilled enough at scamming VCs to get money to do something reasonable

and/or acquihired by a bigco and assigned to work on something else

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PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


barkbell posted:

how do I get into machine learning

microsoft actually has a p dece site dedicated to learning ML. the next version of our DB is gonna include ML plugin capabilities so i’ve been poking around because it’ll be a year after it’s released tops until a customer is demanding i solve world hunger with it

https://cntk.ai/pythondocs/

unless you meant get a machine learning job. just put it on your resume and lie because they won’t know either

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