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I think what I picked up on was how Tony reacted to the jacket. I suppose it's great that we never actually hear him talk to anyone about it (?) and so are left to draw our own conclusions about what it meant to him.
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May 2, 2019 20:49
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Kramer, adamant: “Jerry, you have to wear The Jacket or you’ll offend Richie!” Jerry, in his high pitch rear end voice: “but I don’t wanna wear The Jacket!” It’s old, it’s funky (I loving love how gandolfini sniffs it because that jacket looks like it’s been sitting in a trunk for 10+ years and is probably quite mogey smelling), it’s out of style, it doesn’t fit well and the guy who wore it is now disgraced (and juniors aside that di meo later died of Alzheimer’s as opposed to whacked or in the can alludes that ultimately this is not a powerful person). There is no reason for anyone to want that jacket and Richie taking umbrage over it is  This show is just so well written in how well it gets people.
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May 2, 2019 20:54
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crazy eyes mustafa posted:It’s old, it’s funky (I loving love how gandolfini sniffs it because that jacket looks like it’s been sitting in a trunk for 10+ years and is probably quite mogey smelling), it’s out of style, it doesn’t fit well and the guy who wore it is now disgraced (and juniors aside that di meo later died of Alzheimer’s as opposed to whacked or in the can alludes that ultimately this is not a powerful person). There is no reason for anyone to want that jacket and Richie taking umbrage over it is Yeah, we can infer he wasn't even made because otherwise Richie probably wouldn't be bragging about beating him up. Thinking further, it's amazing that Matt and Sean (well, it's not, because they're complete boombots) decided that Pussy 'stepping up' was the same as shooting the boss' nephew who a captain kinda didn't like. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 21:04 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 21:00
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, we can infer he wasn't even made because otherwise Richie probably wouldn't be bragging about beating him up. I think they are significant characters because they approach this network of people with the same caricatured ideas about how it operates that many people watching the show 20 years ago would likely have had. Only after almost 2 seasons of being privy to some of the boss's psychiatry sessions they of course by that stage knew so much better 
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May 2, 2019 21:16
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I found a bit of black humor in Tony's last lines; "how could this happen?" I mean, it's pretty obvious really, 1. He's involved in a criminal enterprise that quickly resorts to violence to settle disputes and so on and so on and so on I was making an actual list but it's very  to get such a mild point across
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May 2, 2019 22:21
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:and so on and so on and so on I was making an actual list but it's very Think about that poor security guard lying bleeding on the floor near the start of the episode. That whole thing is played off as a joke, but that's serious trauma to this poor bastard who wasn't doing anything other than his job. Christopher was completely onboard with the idea of just smashing his way through this poor schlub, he's setting the precedent for Matt and Sean that they take to lethal, spectacularly stupid lengths. Also just wanna say I never grasped before watching this episode that Bevilaqua was trying to establish a nickname of Drinkwater for himself for some completely bizarre reason which everybody ignored, which I also love. What an unbelievable moron, even if he did go to Pace College!
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May 2, 2019 22:30
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There are so many little things in this show that I am not sure are self-referential or just fluke. Example in this episode is Junior talking about how he enjoyed watching a pirated DVD of The Mummy, and in a later series Tony talks about how he wants to crush "[Junior's] old mummy head" 
crispix fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 3, 2019 |
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May 3, 2019 00:10
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Jerusalem posted:Also just wanna say I never grasped before watching this episode that Bevilaqua was trying to establish a nickname of Drinkwater for himself for some completely bizarre reason which everybody ignored, which I also love. What an unbelievable moron, even if he did go to Pace College! I get his last name means Drinkwater more or less, but it was such an odd quirk that it made me laugh every time.
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May 3, 2019 01:21
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So loving good  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mckbLaZ9XI
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May 3, 2019 08:07
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You had to be the big maaaaaan!
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May 3, 2019 08:49
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ON THE FRIDGE! ON THE FRIDGE! 
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May 3, 2019 09:05
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Jerusalem posted:So loving good Boy does that music make me laugh every time. Such a strong little scene that tells you everything you need to know about these characters in a few seconds.
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May 3, 2019 09:34
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ozza posted:Boy does that music make me laugh every time. Such a strong little scene that tells you everything you need to know about these characters in a few seconds. It was either that music or NPR, which probably would've cost a lot more.
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May 3, 2019 15:54
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It was pretty underhanded of the cops to not mention 'oh hey this guy runs crime in North Jersey.'
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May 3, 2019 16:15
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Dawgstar posted:It was pretty underhanded of the cops to not mention 'oh hey this guy runs crime in North Jersey.' I told you, they’re a glorified crew! 
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May 3, 2019 17:29
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crispix posted:I think what I picked up on was how Tony reacted to the jacket. I suppose it's great that we never actually hear him talk to anyone about it (?) and so are left to draw our own conclusions about what it meant to him. My take on the jacket: - I thought it was a passive aggressive move designed to not only make Tony look ridiculous but to also inflate Richie's ego. I think if it Richie honestly thought it was so tough, good looking and bad rear end from at totemistic standpoint, he would have taken to rockin it himself. - The fact that it was hilariously out of style and would make whoever wore it a laughing stock not only showed how long Richie had been out of the game and what used to look "cool" but also only made the "gift" less important or genuine. I didn't get the impression that Richie gave a gently caress about it beyond being able to tell a recited tough guy story. Otherwise he would have worn it. It was just some ugly thing he found in a box in his basement that only reminded him of his rear end kicking days. - I think it was also a "message" to Tony in response to the incoming threats he was receiving; "Remember this dude thought he was so tough and I kicked his rear end? Why don't YOU wear it, tough guy? See what happens when I take it off YOU." It was a passive aggressive power move from a guy that knows very little about "passive" anything. The ONLY thing Richie associated the jacket with was beating up the toughest guy in the neighborhood. - The fact that he made a show of it in front of the other guys and crew members amplified all of the above, since everyone got to watch the exchange. But no one gave a poo poo and all offered either silence or polite and patronizing "compliments", which is telling given how prone the crew is to over laughing at Tony's jokes and otherwise currying favor. No one liked it or felt envy. - I don't think Tony gave it to the other guy beyond "here, you want this?" as a cursory off handed unloading and a "wtf am I gonna do with THIS?" thing and doubt it was an intentional message to Richie or anything. I just think he gave two shits about it. If he had, he would have said "I gave it to so and so" instead of "it's in the car." and would have come back with it as a power move when Richie asked where it was. Tony hated the coat and actually lied about what he did with it to spare Richie's feelings. He didn't rub it in Richie's face and was actually soft about it, implying he'd kept it safe in his car. - The fact that Richie got so bent about it had less to do with the re-gifting of it or any real or perceived slap in the face insult so much as him knowing that the entire exchange was insignificant to Tony one way or another. It not only failed to curry favor, but also failed to intimidate and Tony might as well have wiped his rear end with it; on top of Richie hoping Tony would be wearing it when he kicked his rear end one day and won the power struggle. Then he could give it to Sil or Paulie and similarly "mark" them as next in line for a beat down and/or repeat the passive aggressive pattern. - It was an empty gift and a do nothing peace offering. Anyway, that's my take on the jacket and how I read it.
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May 4, 2019 00:25
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Also, that Bevalcqua kid (the actor who played him) wound up as much of a gently caress up as his character. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillo_Brancato_Jr.#Arrests,_conviction,_and_incarceration I was surprised to read he was released from jail 6 years ago and for some reason thought he had died. Am I thinking of a different Sopranos actor? edit: No that was him. Seems like he killed a guy but got off. Holy poo poo, this guy has been in 5 movies since he got out Sorry for the double post.
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May 4, 2019 00:30
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BiggerBoat posted:Anyway, that's my take on the jacket and how I read it. I agree on some parts and not others. You're right in that Tony absolutely did not care about the jacket, but I do think it subconsciously reinforced his own self-esteem issues where he feels Richie is looking down on him as the chubby little kid he used to be. I don't agree that Richie intended to forcibly take the coat/his leadership from him, at this point in the season I do think he genuinely thought he had come to terms with Tony being the leader. He still looked down on him, certainly, he still saw him as his kid brother's friend absolutely, and I think he probably thought Tony didn't deserve to be the Boss... but he did accept that he was the Boss and that was that. He'd made overtures to Junior at this point and, while they hadn't been rebuffed, he'd been given no indication Junior would back his play and that Tony could be removed. So he was making what he thought was a real effort to do his duty. Even at this point though that resolution was being chipped away at by Janice, and severely undercut by Tony giving away the jacket. I do also agree that Tony didn't give away the jacket to rub it in Richie's face, and usually there would be no circumstances in which Richie and Stasiu would meet and who knows if it was even him who gave the jacket away in the first place? I think it more likely he just made it clear to Carmela he wasn't interested in it or tossed it down in the basement with the other crap and SHE was the one who handed it over. I doubt Tony would have objected to her giving it away (perhaps he was even asked) but the point is that he clearly had so little interest in this jacket that Richie loved that it was in a position to be given away in the first place. I love THE JAAAAACKET! because, as others have noted, it's a perfect symbol of how much emphasis is put on utterly meaningless objects/things by the characters and how that all spirals out of control. It's done on Seinfeld to comedic effect, here there is an element of comedy too (Paulie stealing from the coffee shop) but also severe physical and emotional repercussions that get blown way out of proportion to deadly results.
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May 4, 2019 03:43
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BiggerBoat posted:It's a play in or a house fee. I know this is a few pages back but the fee for playing in the game is something I have never heard of and I play in big games all the time. It’s mostly just the rake and that’s 10% of the pot up to a set amount. So if it’s small stakes and you are playing Texas hold me with $1/$2 blinds usually the rake would be 5 bucks for 50 and under and if the pot gets over 100 it’s another 5 or sometimes in smaller games it’s just 5%. If it’s 10 percent I expect food and drinks and massage girls. I assume in that game they were taking roughly around $100 rake per hand. Dealers usually keep their tips and depending on the type of dealer or game they may also get a cut of the action. Sometimes dealers are in on running the game. Most dealers at the games I play at are degenerates paying off a debt. The tips they get go straight to the guy they owe. As far as Davey goes if he wins and wants to keep the money Tony would have let that happen as well because the juice is running and you want a guy who won’t be able to pay you back so every month he is bringing you income. If I had to pay a few bucks to play in games like that I would never pay and neither would those other whales. The selling point is you can come to a game feel safe and get free food and drinks for the whole time you gamble. That’s a degenerates dream right there.
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May 4, 2019 11:55
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That was Susan Blackwell playing Beansie's physiotherapist. It seems like having a bit part as a medical professional in The Sopranos was the way to get your career off the ground in the late 1990s and early 2000s. In a later season Buster Bluth plays a doctor I hope I am not pissing people off by posting about so much trivial stuff. This is just the kind of person I am :/
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May 4, 2019 20:04
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crispix posted:That was Susan Blackwell playing Beansie's physiotherapist. It seems like having a bit part as a medical professional in The Sopranos was the way to get your career off the ground in the late 1990s and early 2000s. In a later season Buster Bluth plays a doctor Will Arnett was the FBI mole's husband. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lezadysaw0M Stephanie Germonatta (aka Lady Gaga) helped AJ deface school property. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoPBFV0LZv0 Lin Manuel Miranda was a bellhop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrRk5YNAh00 Also this dude did an entire rap song dedicated to his one line in an episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCx8xjHMt_M
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May 4, 2019 22:57
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Also this dude did an entire rap song dedicated to his one line in an episode He actually got cast in a recurring role in Boardwalk Empire after this, and made another rap about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Iwio2YH1I
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May 4, 2019 23:44
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Season 2, Episode 9 - From Where to EternityPaulie Gualtieri posted:loving QUEERS! Staring with a song that recurs regularly throughout the episode (written by Michael Imperioli!), Christopher Moltisanti lies in the ICU of the hospital as friends and family gather together in a vigil, hoping for the best and fearing the worst. Adriana is by his bedside as much as possible, considering how so recently all her dreams had come true and now she is living in a nightmare. Placing a picture of Pope John Paul the II on his chest, she is greeted by Silvio and his wife Gabriella and updates them on what is happening. While he breathing on his own, the damage from the bullets may mean his spleen will have to come out. Silvio assures her that Christopher is tough and will make it through this, and Gabriella notes with approval the picture of the Pope, pointing out that he too was shot and survived. Joanne Moltisanti makes her first in-person appearance on the show, played here by Nancy Cassaro. Raving with grief and anger but also half-drunk, she screams to see Christopher's condition and has to be restrained by Silvio, while Gabriella and Adriana hide their disdain for the alcoholic as best they can. Pulling Silvio tight, she whispers in his ear that when they find Matthew Bevilaqua, she wants him to suffer. That Silvio understands how to deal with, and assures her they're doing their best. In the visitors lobby, cops do their best to get information from the blank wall that is the mobsters. Tony is polite enough but just insists he doesn't know Sean Gismonte or Matthew Bevilaqua, while Paulie and Pussy just stare holes through the detective who attempts to get something, anything from them. Clearly disgusted, the detectives leave, while Janice and Richie arrive and meet with Carmela and Meadow. Janice assures a hopeful Meadow that they just have to pay, then gives a completely uninterested AJ the same message as he tries to play on his Gameboy, bored out of his mind. Adriana embraces Richie and tells him she doesn't know what she'll do if Christopher doesn't make it. He promises her she'll be okay, then comes to meet with Tony, Pussy and Paulie, the latter of whom is upset since he'd told Richie not to come. Richie had to come though, Adriana is his niece after all, and Tony reminds them that he said he'd return if he had something on Bevilaqua. So they all head outside the hospital, where he catches them up on what he knows. Somebody at the betting shop has a name that might prove useful, a dealer called Quickie G who Matt presumably got his drugs from. As Silvio ponders whether this was a dealer who regularly comes into the Bada Bing (perhaps it was Fast Fatty?), a stressed Tony takes a moment before noting that with word on the street, it is only a matter of days before somebody brings them info if only to score points with them. They just have to bide their time. Gabriella and Carmela grab a coffee together as they discuss the ridiculous cost of medical treatment. Once settled in to their chairs though, and with nothing else to do for Christopher in the immediate, they fall back onto that reliable old pastime: gossip. It seems Ralph Ritaldo's goomar (Carmela not only knows her ethnicity but her occupation as well, these goomars are open secrets) has just given birth to his baby, though Gabriella's concern seems to be more about the fact that she had a C-Section. Carmella of course is immediately thinking of other potential repercussions.   After Tony and Carmela have finally returned home for the evening, they lie in bed together as Carmella looks to the Bible for solace. Tony obviously commiserates, and sensibly suggests she should try and get a good night's sleep, since tomorrow is going to be another rough day. He tries to follow his own advice and rolls over to try and nod off, and alarm bells go off when after a few moments she sternly informs him that she loves him. She doesn't want anybody hurt, including the kids, and an exhausted and stressed out Tony is completely honest by saying that he just can't deal with one of those "tearful, up till 5 in the morning things" tonight. But she ignores that, asking about Ralphie Ritaldo and his goomar's baby, and Tony is instantly on the defense, accusing her of having the wrong things on her mind at a time like this when Christopher is in the ICU. Carmela calmly points out that the Calvin Klein stinking up HIS shirts recently is the reason it is on her mind, and he protests far too much as he loudly insists that his own "affair" has been over for months now, something she doesn't buy for a second. So she wants him to get a vasectomy, and you can be certain that wakes him right the gently caress up. Revealing that she doesn't buy for a second the idea that he's stopped fooling around or that he ever plans to, she asks him to think about how much damage a "bastard" would do to the family, how it would humiliate the kids and herself. He can only stare, dumbfounded, knowing she's right but also completely unwilling to accept her ultimatum or admit to his own shortcomings as a husband. He lays back in the bed, and then finally makes about the worst reply you could ever think of: he had her tested for AIDS, suggesting that somehow this makes him a... good person? Carmela absorbs this in silence herself, then storms out of the bed and the bedroom to sleep elsewhere. At the hospital, Adriana sleeps on a chair beside a dozing Pussy and an awake Paulie, who is rubbing sanitizer on his hands almost obsessively. This wakes Pussy, who is clutching shaving supplies, and he looks over at an Arabic family who are obviously waiting desperately on news about a family member also in the ICU. A Code Blue message freaks them all out, and they look about nervously wondering who the bad news is for. Adriana rushes down the corridor to Christopher's room, where she cries out in horror to see a crash team working desperately to restart his heart as his heartrate monitor sends out a flat tone. Pussy and Paulie pull her back as she screams out that it's unfair, they told her he would get better. She breaks down into desperate sobbing as Pussy hugs her, and soon after Tony gets a call at home. Carmela steps into the bedroom as he turns and stares in silent panic, unsure how to tell her what he's just been told. They return to the hospital where Silvio has also joined them, and they learn that Christopher's heart stopped, and the doctors are currently working their asses off to try and keep him alive. They stand around in uneasy silence, and finally all Tony can offer is that they need to stay positive. Carmela pulls away from Tony's timid reach and she finds an empty room with a crucifix affixed to the wall, and kneels down at the bedside where she says a prayer. As the camera moves through the operating theater and into the visitors lobby over everybody, she speaks in full awareness of her own sins and the sins of everybody else, and asks God to show mercy to Christopher and open his eyes to the blindness of his current lifestyle, and to have the vision to continue his life in service to God's mercy. Carmela is somebody who is forever determined to take action, that she is in some way required for the goals of others to be achieved. Not that she thinks the world revolves around her, but she has a very fixed idea of what is going to happen and why it is going to happen, and believes that she can and should take steps to either assist those things along or prevent them. It is both a genuine desire to help as well as an almost narcissistic desire to be involved. She did it when she "helped" Meadow by getting a letter of recommendation written for her, when she got Charmaine Bucco the catering job, and she's doing it now as she "intervenes" to ask God's help. Given how passive she feels in Tony's decision-making, it feels almost appropriate that she finds outlets like this.   Day dawns and Hesh joins the others, where he offers firm support Adriana can understand by assuring her of the quality of the hospital's care. For his own health reasons, he maintains an active interest in the rankings of the medical facilities in the Tri-State area and this one has the best trauma unit. Adriana is actually relieved to hear that, and when Doctor Rubin finally arrives to catch them up, Hesh speaks with authority as he asks for further information, making Adriana feel like they're getting the full story. Christopher suffered cardiac and respiratory arrest but was revived, and the internal bleeding he was suffering was brought under control, and he's now in a stable condition. Adriana is almost floored by her relief, though the doctor does admit he was clinically dead for a minute. She asks to see him but he explains he will be in post-op for at least five hours, and after that he has specifically requested to see Tony... and Paulie. Even Paulie is surprised by that, but apparently he was insistent he see them both. Out of post-op, Christopher is awake and alert enough to be punching the button on his morphine drip in an effort to stop the relentless pain his body must be feeling. Tony and Paulie quietly enter and a relieved Tony kisses the side of his head, hand on his chin as he stares with happiness to see him alive after being sure the worst was coming. Christopher apologizes and Tony laughs that he has nothing to apologize for, just happy to see him alive, insisting nobody is mad at him. Christopher quietly tells them he is going to Hell, that he saw the tunnel and white light and his own father in Hell, and the bouncer told him he'd go there too when his time came. If they weren't confused before, they are now: what bouncer? Tony is actually relieved when Christopher explains Hell is an Irish bar, thinking Christopher is joking or just had a bad dream, but Christopher insists. Hell is an Irish Bar where it is St. Patrick's Day every day forever. He saw Mikey Palmice and Brendan Filone there, hanging out together, friends in the Afterlife. Paulie, as amused as Tony, reminds Christopher that Mikey and Brendan hated each other (well, Mikey did kill Brendan after all) but Christopher, getting more fired up as he struggles with the pain and his own fear, is adamant. They're friends, and they were playing dice with Roman soldiers and a bunch of Irish guys, and the Irish won every roll. Mikey had a message for both Tony and Paulie, which is why he asked to see them. The message is "Three o'clock". That's it, as simple as that. Tony notes Christopher jamming his thumb on the morphine button and gently places his hand over Christopher's, reminding him he needs to be careful with that. But Paulie, beautiful stupid Paulie, has other things on his mind: Three o'clock? What does that mean? He asks for more information, what was Mikey wearing? An old-timey gangster suit with pinstripes, but Christopher is already falling asleep, exhausted by pain and the medication. Tony kisses him goodbye and promises to take him home soon, and leads a mildly distressed Paulie out with him. Paulie mimics the morphine drip and asks if the doctors know Christopher "likes his chemistry set a little too much" but Tony defends him, he's in genuine pain, what else can they do? The thing still on Paulie's mind though is the message, and he finds Silvio and asks him when the Mikey hit went down? Silvio reminds Paulie that he was the one who did it so he should know, and Paulie nervously considers, it was a morning hit, surely? I love Paulie Gualtieri so much. It has affected Tony too, but in a different way. He attends a therapy session with Dr. Melfi where he brings up the subject of the vasectomy, and insists that while it is true he DID cheat (nice, already lying) he isn't getting cut and that's the end of the story - when it comes to his perceived masculinity, he will brook no questioning. Since he's shut down this line of talk, she asks him about the shooting of Christopher and whether it relates to the recent news about a gangland shooting in the media. He's grumpy that she's immediately onto this subject, looking for all the world like a tourist again, but she insists that she is asking because of how it may have affected him. She knows how he feels about Christopher, thinking of him almost like a son, so surely these issues are weighing on him too? He tells her how Christopher was clinically dead, and believes he went to Hell and was told he would go back permanently. He scoffs at the idea, claiming it was a result of the morphine, but it is clear he is rattled by the thought that Christopher himself believes it. Melfi pushes him to explore this further, does he think Christopher will go to Hell? Does he think HE will go to Hell? Tony laughs off the idea, explaining that Hell is for the truly worst of the worst, the molesters and murderers of children and babies, the mass murderers like Hitler and Pol Pot. Laying out his (almost desperate) justification for his actions, he insists that he and the others are "soldiers" in a "war", following orders and doing what "needs" to be done to other soldiers. Everybody knows the rules, everybody knows what they're signing up for. He decries the condemnation of Italians as mobsters, pointing out the hypocrisy of the Rockefellers and Carnegies or the likes of J.P Morgan. They were killers and exploiters too, but they were celebrated while the Italians were vilified. The entire time he refers to "us" when speaking about Italian Immigrants, and Melfi - getting a little heated herself - responds back by asking what the hell Italian Immigrants from a century or more earlier have to do with Tony Soprano, wealthy "waste management consultant" living in a big house with money and status to spare. This pisses him off too, NOW she chooses to take a stand and condemn him, after months of telling him he isn't at fault for his problems because of his parents? Immediately he plays the Christopher card, how dare she push him like this when his nephew is in the hospital, throwing that in her face to induce guilt. She recognizes this, of course, but she also knows that she has - once again - gone beyond professional guidelines, so simply sits and says nothing. Paulie gets a different type of therapy. In bed with his girlfriend Michelle (played by Judy Reyes in sadly her only appearance), he can't sleep as he watches the clock tick over to 3am. The sound of chimes has him launching himself out of bed ready to fight, waking her too, and he feels ridiculous when she points out the sound is just her windchimes out on the fire exit. He apologizes but she's fine, just telling him the only thing she is concerned about is that he doesn't wake her kids. As he settles into the bed, she does her best to calm him down and it seems to work, but as she straddles him to "help him relax" a thought suddenly pops into her head. With a gasp she explains that she and her husband (presumably dead, maybe divorced?) were supposed to marry at 1pm in the Fontainebleau Room at the Roman Gardens. Mikey Palmice and Jo-Jo were set to marry in the Bella Vista Room at 3pm, but Mikey kicked up a giant fuss when he saw the room had no windows, and eventually forced a switch in the schedule. She sits back, as if she has just imparted some great knowledge on a bewildered Paulie, who now has no idea what to think. So he does what any sensible person would do, he goes to visit a gunshot victim in the hospital in the early hours of the morning and "accidentally" wakes him up so he can grill him for more information about Hell! Affecting great ease, he pushes a groggy Christopher for more info and quickly comes to a reassuring conclusion. Christopher didn't see Hell, he saw Purgatory! The bouncer didn't have horns on his head, not even goat buds! It wasn't hot, and EVERYBODY knows that Hell is hot! With great authority, Paulie lays out the "math" to Christopher: Add up all your motal sins and multiply by 50, then add up all your venial sins and multiply that by 25, and bingo, you have your stay in Purgatory calculated. Paulie figures he'll have to do about 6,000 years, but that's nothing compared to eternity in Heaven, why he could do that standing on his head!   I love Paulie Gualtieri so much. It's really fascinating to see both Tony and Paulie's reactions to Hell. I largely get the feeling that Tony's answers to Melfi are actually covering up a complete lack of belief in Hell in the first place, yet another thing he probably feels immensely guilty about given his Catholic upbringing. Yes he's troubled to be talking about it, but probably because it upsets him that A) Christopher thinks he would go to hell, and B) that anybody would think HE himself would go to Hell, because that doesn't fit with Tony's belief that he is the hero of his story. Meanwhile, Paulie quite clearly does believe in Heaven and Hell, but also believes it is a system that can be gamed just like any other. Tony's justifications are laid out to help preserve his own self-image as a good person, while Paulie's are laid out to try and figure out an angle where he can come out ahead/survive. Melfi is in tears as she attends her own therapy session, questioning why she reacted so unprofessionally with Tony and whether she crossed an ethical line. Elliot asks about her own medication, pushing non-judgmentally for a real answer when she gives a stock one, staying silent to allow her the time to admit she has also increased her drinking, especially when alone. He thanks her for telling him, building trust, but then returns to silence to draw her out further: she admits she also fears for her family, she's told Tony too much about her own personal life, including the college her son attends. But she gets defensive when he asks not for the first time why she agreed to go back to treating Tony, and he assures her isn't challenging her professionalism or even her ethics. So what then? Well he wants to know what she actually hopes to achieve, and refuses to let her turn that question back on him. He's a meek, quiet little mouse of a man but he's a good psychiatrist, and he draws her out with silence when he needs to and confronts her when it is necessary. Wiping the tears from her eyes, she admits that she chose to take a stand about Tony's many crimes and his hypocrisy and now she is scared because of it. He can't help her there, all he can do is be there for her as a therapist to help her work through her emotional baggage. Pussy is summoned to a meeting with Skip, who is in a bad mood and has no time for Pussy's fears that Tony knows he's an informant and gave him a message during an earlier meeting by pretending to have gotten a sandwich order wrong. Skip has seen this type of thing before and lays it out to Pussy as plainly as he can: Tony hasn't changed, Pussy has. Pussy is the one who is different now, and he's projecting that onto everybody else. Pussy is still determined that Tony is casting him suspicious, knowing glances however so Skip makes a suggestion: make Tony love him. Do what he does when he's trying to gently caress a girl and woo him, make it so whenever he looks at Pussy he sees somebody who he loves and trusts. It's not the most helpful information, but like Elliot and Melfi, all Skip can do is offer support: it's up to their respective "patients" to make it work. Christopher's mother gives him a goodnight kiss and promises to be up early to bring him breakfast. She hugs Carmela as she leaves, who has come to sit with him overnight. Once alone, Carmela can't help herself though, she has to let him know how SHE helped him to survive. She explains about how she prayed, and how it paid off, because Tony told her all about Christopher's vision: he went to Heaven and saw his father and Jesus, and was told it wasn't yet his time! Christopher, high on the morphine, isn't on top of things enough to make a nice lie and just tells her the truth: he didn't see Heaven, he saw Hell. Her face falls as he tells her he went to Hell or possibly Purgatory, but she resets herself and instead declares that this just means he has to take this opportunity to repent and take the second chance he has been given. She promises she will pray for him every night from now on, and asks him to pray with her. She starts to pray, but Christopher - conked out on drugs - basically drifts off into blissful unconsciousness almost immediately. Carmela returns home with a short,"He's fine. The same" response to Tony asking after Christopher. After an uncomfortable silence, he asks if they're not talking now and she snaps back that she'd said all she has to say. They begin arguing again, her accusing him of being the unfaithful one when he complains she has no faith in him, him accusing her of only being religious when it suits her. As they go back and forth, Carmela stuns him when she points out that he'd made a living of undoing God's work. All this time, AJ has nervously made his way into the kitchen and tried to remove a dish of food from the fridge, only to drop it on the ground. Tony and Carmela's furious locked gaze broken by the sound, Tony looks at the mess on the floor and his husky son and immediately finds a target to unleash his anger on. He demands to know why AJ is here for more food only an hour after dinner, what is he doing to himself? Turning to Carmela, he gestures to their son and asks if he should really be getting a vasectomy if THIS is his male heir, then storms out of the room. Carmela is horrified, roaring at him to come back and apologize, but he ignores her.   Paulie is back at Michelle's place, but wakes screaming from a nightmare where he was being dragged to hell. This time he has managed to wake her tiny, adorable children. In a completely different side to what we normally see of Paulie, he apologizes profusely and hugs the children, explaining that "Uncle" Paulie just had a bad dream. He tells Michelle he'll put them to bed and then head home so he isn't keeping everybody up. Taking them by the hand - they're obviously familiar enough with him to trust him - he walks them back to their beds, Michelle lovingly telling him to come talk to her when he is done. Once he does, they discuss his dreams, but Paulie insists that it wasn't a dream, science said Christopher was dead and this makes it a vision. Michelle thinks Paulie needs professional help, but she has a very different idea of what professional means to the lifes of Dr. Melfi: she wants him to go see a psychic! She tells him about a man named Cullen in New York, one she saw who was able to communicate with her dead friend Ronnie (who he called Johnny) and knew things about Ronnie she never told him ahead of time. Paulie thinks that's a freak show, but at this point he's about willing to try anything. At Satriale's, Pussy is inside sampling meat and cheese when Quickie G sidles up looking for Paulie or Silvio. Pussy demands he tell him and Quickie insists he remember who it was who gave the info: Matthew Bevilaqua can be found at Hacklebarney State Park, in a grey house near where the "George Washington Slept Here" house is. Pussy hands over $20 and considers, now he has something that will make Tony love him. In Nyack, Cullen the Psychic sits with a group of desperate people looking for closure, Paulie among them. He can't help but crack jokes as Cullen looks into empty space and offers vague statements that becomes more specific as he goes along. The living man he is currently speaking to is Daniel, and the dead spirit only he can see is his father Gregory, who apparently gives his information in a combination of spoken word and mental imagery. Daniel found Gregory's body, and the father is sorry for the trauma his son suffered as a result. Clearly it was a suicide, and bullshit or not this is giving Daniel the chance to vent his emotions and sob openly in the presence of his "father". But this gets sidetracked as Cullen is distracted, then turns to stare directly at a now disconcerted Paulie. Cullen offers Daniel kind words, saying his father wants him to move on, but is distracted again by other spirits clamoring for attention. He gets up and walks directly towards Paulie, looking over his shoulder as Paulie leaps to his feet and tries to see what he is seeing. The empty space is apparently frightened of Paulie, as well as angry. Cullen is speaking to Charles and Sonny, and Paulie gasps and asks if he means Sonny Pagano. Cullen agrees, saying they were Paulie's "first" but he senses many others, then looks at another spirit who is apparently laughing and asks,"Poison ivy?" Now Paulie is getting frightened, this is all far more specific than what was being said to Daniel. He grabs Cullen by the shirt and hauls him close, demanding to know who he has been speaking to. Cullen, still looking into the middle distance, quietly says he'll have to ask him to leave, looking around at the other gathered customers and asking if he really wants him to say why. Paulie, terrified out of his mind and expressing it through his rage, does what any reasonable man would do in this situation, he grabs a nearby chair and flings it at the invisible ghosts while screaming,"loving QUEERS!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVIwepliNeo I love Paulie Gualtieri so much. Back at the Bada Bing, a nervous Paulie shakily pours himself a drink after having told a bewildered Tony the whole story. He explains he made an appointment under the name Ted Hughes and didn't call from his own house since he figured the psychic might have been able to use that to research up on him. No, now Paulie believes firmly that he's being pursued by ghosts lead by Mikey Palmice, haunted to his grave and a straight trip to Hell. Tony tries to reason with him, why would some of the heavy hitters that Paulie has whacked in the past follow a loser like Mikey? Then he tries to lay it out straight: he doesn't believe in any of this, Christopher's ominous Three O'Clock warning means nothing to him. But Paulie is unconvinced, how could the psychic have known about Sonny Pagano? That was 30 years ago. Tony can only sit and stare, this isn't exactly something he is well equipped to deal with. So he throws it at Paulie from another angle: he eats steak, and if he lived in India that would mean he would go to Hell. Now Paulie is confused, he doesn't live in India so why should he give a gently caress if he eats steak? That's exactly Tony's point, and he leaves Paulie to stew on it, none of this religious stuff means anything. None of it. At home, AJ is reading a paintball magazine and listening to music on his headphones when Tony pops by with pizza and some cokes. It is his attempt to make good, he asks if he can sit and eat with him, trying his best to explain to AJ how sorry he is for what he said in the heat of the moment while in a bad mood at Carmela. He admits he tends to let anger and frustration build up inside of him and then let it explode, and it is his fault and something he needs to learn how to control, especially around the people he loves. The phone has been ringing and Carmela comes to the doorway, stopping to listen, unseen by Tony as he talks about how he sees so much of himself in AJ, that both of them keep their feelings inside and react without thinking. That is why Tony gets mad at him, because he see himself in AJ, but he couldn't ask for a better son. AJ clearly takes it to heart, like he does everything Tony tells him in spite of his often blank expression, and smiles and accepts the pizza that Tony offers. Carmela is loath to interrupt this, but has no choice, Pussy has called and claimed it is urgent he speak to Tony. He leaves to take the call, and AJ smiles at his mother as she too leaves, pondering the way Tony is still able to surprise her. She walks out onto the landing as Tony tells Pussy he'll be right over, and this time when she asks him what is going on and he tells her nothing, she doesn't judge him. She knows exactly what is happening, she can see it in his excited and tense body language, and she both appreciates/fear it. Tony is going to exact revenge for what happened to a member of their family, and despite this being part of "undoing God's work" that she earlier accused him of, she cannot deny the thrill and pleasure she gets from seeing him do it. This is Tony Soprano, family man, protector, defender. But it is also Tony Soprano, murderer, monster, sinner. He both arouses and revolts her but right now it seems the former is winning out.   At Satriale's, Tony and Pussy pull open a fake wall to grab guns from a stash as Pussy explains where he has confirmed they can find Bevilaqua (Tony immediately remembered that "George Washington Slept Here" house is nearby). Tony asks for a gun as well and Pussy hesitates before handing one over, reminding him that this is a job for Furio and he to handle. Tony insists he wants to go, and after a moment's consideration tells Pussy to cut Furio loose, the two of them can do it just fine. Not long after, a battered Matthew Bevilaqua is dragged into a closed snack bar and pressed into a chair, sniffling and breathing heavily in terror. Tony is all smiles, assuring the man they just savagely beat that they just want to talk, that's all. Matt begs them to believe it was just Sean, he had nothing to do with any of it. Tony lights a cigar and takes a seat himself, and points out that if they wanted him dead they would have killed him already, he should just relax. Matt of course doesn't believe this, and just keeps on pleading that it was all Sean, just Sean, it was all his plan and he insisted they do it to get in good with Richie Aprile. Tony finds this interesting, puffing on his cigar and asking what Richie had to say about all this? Matt is quick to tell the truth here, that Richie had no idea this was going to happen, that he was furious when he found out what they.. what Sean had done. Sean did it all on spec, but Matt had nothing to do with any of it, he swears. Tony seems satisfied with this, even as Matt pisses his pants in terror, and leans forward and with a big broad smile asks him if he is really sure nobody else was involved? Matt just repeats himself, it was all Sean. Tony pauses and considers all this, then leans back with a pat on Matt's knee and tells him okay, alright, that's the end of that. Matt, not quite believing it but desperately wanting to, mumbles that he's thirsty and Tony tells Pussy to grab him a drink from the stack of boxes behind Matt. Pussy does so, looking through the whole thing like this was just any other casual meeting, asking what he'd like. He brings him a diet coke and Matt gulps it greedily, desperately down, savoring the taste and the fact he is still alive. Pussy being behind him had him jerking about in preparation for a blow that never came, and now he is starting to have that most horrible and damning of emotions: hope. Tony, still smoking cheerfully away, asks if he really wants diet and not something with some real sugar? Conversationally, Pussy points out they only had diet, and Matt - keen to show his gratitude - stumbles out that it's good, the drink is fine. Tony makes sure he has finished his drink, and Matt sets it down with a pathetic thank you to "T". Now Tony's face falls, the smile gone, a hard and contemptuous look in its place as he explains that "That sugarless motherfucker? The last loving drink you'll ever have." Matt has just enough time to register what he means, just enough time for his blooming hope to be dashed out before Tony has risen to his feet and pulled his gun. Tony fires first into Matthew's pleading, snivelling, weeping body. But even with Matt dead, he casts a meaningful look Pussy's way. Pussy joins in, the two unloading their guns into Matthew's already dead body, cementing the bond between them and, Pussy hopes, ending any perception Tony may have about his loyalty. Matt's final moments were agonizing and cruel, but I don't think it was sadism for its own sake. Tony wanted to know if anybody else was involved and this was the easiest way to get that info. But he took a clear and savage satisfaction in having made Bevilaqua suffer like he had to suffer over the last few days thinking Christopher was going to die, and how it affected everybody else around him. It was cruel and painful and a wretched way for Matthew to die, hardly the "we're soldiers and we all know the score" fantasy Tony concocted for Melfi. If he believed in Hell, he'd certainly be one of those going there, and that fact itself must burn him even if he isn't a believer.   For some light relief from this dark poo poo, we join Paulie at his local Church where he argues with an uneasy priest over the threat Paulie is sure is hanging over his head. While the priest insists a psychic is divination and thus unsanctioned by the Church, Paulie has a different complaint in mind. He's been donating to the Church for 20+ years, that should give him immunity! Yes, Paulie literally thinks of the Church as a protection scheme, if he pays up each month then the Church will keep him from going to Hell. They haven't been doing their job, so he's no longer going to pay up! He storms out of the Church, pausing along the way to glare angrily up at a statue of Jesus, mad that he's not living up to his end of the deal. I love Paulie Gualtieri so much. Tony and Pussy stop off at a restaurant to have steak and beer, where Tony tells an off-color joke about a rich man and poor man which Pussy greatly enjoys. They reminisce, this was the place Pussy brought Tony after his first murder, something they look back fondly on. Tony finishes his own drink and then asks Pussy a question that makes him pause to consider, though not because of the actions they just performed. Does he believe in God? Pussy considers, having initially being caught in what he thought was one of those meaningful glances, then says that he does. He admits sometimes he works in mysterious ways, but he's been very good to Pussy. They toast each other, both of them accepting this statement, but it wasn't what Tony wanted to hear. How can Pussy believe in God and commit murder? Sure Tony said it was just soldiers doing "what they had to" but they tortured that kid before blowing him away, and he was just a punk idiot who'd had no idea what he was getting himself into. Tony can't believe in God or heaven and hell because if he did, that would mean he was a horrible person deserving of punishment, something he can't reconcile with his own belief he is a good man. That Pussy can must be either a lie or a sign of an ability to compartmentalize that Tony can't or won't, and either way leaves him feeling uneasy.   Carmela is at home reading Memoirs of a Geisha when Tony quietly makes his way into the bedroom, surprised to see her up. She doesn't question where he has been, clearly knowing that he wasn't out with a goomar this time. Carefully they ask how the other is doing as he undresses for bed, but as he settles onto the edge of the bed to remove his socks she gets up behind him and begins massaging his shoulders and kissing him. Quietly he tells her he has been thinking and he's decided he will do it, get the vasectomy, and is shocked when she tells him she doesn't want him to do it. Not angry but confused, he reminds her she wanted him to do it and now he does too, but she - after seeing him with AJ and knowing he went out to get vengeance for a member of the family - has changed her mind. Still kissing him, massaging him, pressing against him with love, she explains that with Meadow about to leave and AJ growing up, she may decide in the future she wants another baby and wants to leave the option open. He's outraged, he doesn't know what she wants or why, but she continues to simply hold him close and kiss him, explaining that all she wants, all she has ever wanted, is him. It is EXACTLY what he wants to hear, what he needs to hear right now: somebody who knows exactly what he is and accepts him for it without reservation. When she says she wants only him, but that means she wants him to be true and not to cheat, he tries to promise but she cuts him off. She doesn't want words, she wants him to prove it with his actions. They kiss and lay back on the bed, making love as Otis Redding plays one last time, watched on by the statues of Saints at the bedside table. There's a place for the Church in Carmela's life, but it will always play second fiddle to her family. Season 2: Guy Walks into a Psychiatrist's Office... | Do Not Resuscitate | Toodle-loving-Oo | Commendatori | Big Girls Don't Cry | The Happy Wanderer | D-Girl | Full Leather Jacket | From Where to Eternity | Bust Out | House Arrest | The Knight in White Satin Armor | Funhouse Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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May 5, 2019 07:13
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That was fantastic, as always, Jerusalem, thank you!
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May 5, 2019 08:38
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I love Paulie's completely made up Purgatory formula. They kind of ran a risk here making Paulie the 'wacky one' but fortunately throwing the chair and shouting racial epithets helped (for values of fortunately). Even Chase said once in an interview the reason he didn't have the show go o on longer was being afraid of a TV Guide capsule summary of something like 'Tony wonders how to deal with a new problem from New York. Meanwhile, Paulie thinks he saw a UFO.'
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May 5, 2019 12:48
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It is testament to this show's ability to draw you into it that given all the horrible things we have seen Tony Soprano do, the thing that stands out as shocking in this episode is when he loses his temper and criticises his son for being a fatass.
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May 5, 2019 16:00
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Yeah, he literally murders a guy in this episode and it barely registers on the shock scale compared to talking poo poo about AJ to his face, it's kinda incredible how they were able to pull that off. I'm absolutely fascinated by Paulie. The comedy is great and funny and all, but there is a fair bit of truth in that there are plenty of people in this world who think they can rules lawyer their way into heaven or think it is a system that can be played. Paulie assumes there is a formula, that he can literally pay his way into heaven or develop a strategy to get away with committing a bunch of sins etc. Tony pays lipservice with his "we're soldiers so it doesn't count/we're not the true monsters" stuff, but Paulie is a genuine believer... in the idea that you can both be a murderous criminal AND go to heaven. Also, thank you Rappaport
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May 6, 2019 00:09
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, he literally murders a guy in this episode and it barely registers on the shock scale compared to talking poo poo about AJ to his face, it's kinda incredible how they were able to pull that off. Is Paulie all that different from Carmella in his view of religion? I think Carmella is more delusional about it, but in the end, he's paying cash straight to the church instead of making zitti for the priest.
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May 6, 2019 00:52
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I think the difference is that Carmela believes (and revels in the fact) she is at heart a good person. She has an almost smug sense of superiority, even when she admits her own faults it comes across like she's rubbing everybody else's nose in her own "humility". Paulie knows he's a murderer and a thief and a thug but he also thinks that this is okay because he's following the forms/systems he believes are in place to be exploited to negate that. He is outraged at the thought that maybe he might go to Hell after all when he's been paying "protection" money to the Church and is supposed to be "immune".
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May 6, 2019 01:06
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One thing that stands out to Paulie above everything else to me, even over the cartoonish brutality, is the self-centeredness with its own gravitational pull. Even here he does stuff like wake up a man on his sickbed who nearly died to hear more about his funky dream.
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May 6, 2019 01:18
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I think it’s just a generational difference between Paulie and Carmella. Paulie’s view of Catholicism is very pre-Vatican II where they did a lot of that hell and purgatory and ejaculations (yes that’s what they were called), which were basically small mini prayers/phrases that you could quickly say and each one would reduce your time in purgatory. The church really moved away from all of that after Vatican II. Carmella would’ve grown up after that and had a much more modern view of Catholicism.
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May 6, 2019 01:28
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So can someone please answer just how much baked ziti it will cost me to get into heaven?
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May 6, 2019 01:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:So can someone please answer just how much baked ziti it will cost me to get into heaven? 55 boxes. Good luck.
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May 6, 2019 01:56
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In honor of this thread, for dinner tonight I had some loving ziti.
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May 6, 2019 02:10
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, he literally murders a guy in this episode and it barely registers on the shock scale compared to talking poo poo about AJ to his face, it's kinda incredible how they were able to pull that off. I live in Ireland. I can think of several real people whose conception of an afterlife is just like this. Was actually something that tickled me thoughout the show: just how similar this culture was to what exists here because Catholicism. But of course you put these people together in a place at a time and they loving hate each other so much that it is passed down through generations
crispix fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 6, 2019 |
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May 6, 2019 02:18
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The great philosophical mind of Paulie Walnuts.
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May 6, 2019 10:34
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Has David Chase gone into much detail about his views on Italian-American identity? There's a cynicism to his own heritage throughout the series which I find very interesting. The upper-middle professionals like Dr Cusamano and Melfi's ex-husband who cherry pick when they're proud Italians and when they act like suburban WASPs. The way that Naples treats the visiting Sopranos with contempt, and how the crew is shocked by the way Furio views Colombus and De Nort' . I ask since Chase bases a lot of the series on his own upbringing, and the way he inserted himself as a Napolitano giving Paulie the stinkeye. Chase's dad Anglicized their surname from DeCesare, which led to several of the Sopranos actors not taking him seriously when they first met him. How could this guy expect to write a series about the Mafia and Italian families when he ain't even Italian? crispix posted:He already looked like a guy who enjoyed his food. I wonder if any alcohol was consumed during his drunk scenes. I don't think I have seen an actor act drunk better than Gandolfini. The whole spectrum from slightly mellowed out with a beer in front of the TV drunk to completely off his tits, crashing around the house, dancing the Camel Walk at his bewildered wife before passing out on the floor drunk and everything in between. He was amazing Gandolfini spent years working as a bouncer and bartender so he probably learnt a lot of subtleties in the way people behave as they get progressively drunker. I think its also why Tony could alternate so effortlessly between menace and charisma. Its the same way good bouncers can quickly switch between being hospitality and intimidation. Its a skill set that is quite useful for mobsters and actors playing them. Al Capone started as a club worker and bouncer, as did Carmine Sr actor and Mafia affiliate Tony Lip.
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May 6, 2019 13:21
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I'm thoroughly enjoying coming to this thread for the rundown of episodes.
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May 6, 2019 19:38
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goodog posted:the crew is shocked by the way Furio views Colombus and De Nort' . 
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May 6, 2019 20:20
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HO! HEY!
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May 6, 2019 20:27
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