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Franchescanado posted:In case anyone else needs it explicitly stated: So is power dynamics in regards to superhero relationships off the table too? I remember when MoS first came out, this topic was also discussed, in that Superman immediately revealing himself to Lois as Kal-El instead of as Clark shifted the power dynamics of the relationship (the idea being that Lois can view Clark as an equal as she thinks she knows he's human, whereas she will forever look at Kal-El being from an incredibly technologically advanced alien place), but to counter it thematically, they also went with a Lois who's also older than Clark, and the dynamics of their relationship were pushed to the forefront (we actually get scenes with dialogue of the characters contemplating their roles in this dynamic), whereas in Endgame, it's mostly left to the viewer to interpret half-thought out wish fulfillment scenarios through the lens of canon and continuity.
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May 13, 2019 19:57
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euphronius posted:Be interesting to see who disappears if he chose to vaporize “all villains” Stark died.
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May 13, 2019 19:58
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ruddiger posted:So is power dynamics in regards to superhero relationships off the table too? I remember when MoS first came out, this topic was also discussed, in that Superman immediately revealing himself to Lois as Kal-El instead of as Clark shifted the power dynamics of the relationship (the idea being that Lois can view Clark as an equal as she thinks she knows he's human, whereas she will forever look at Kal-El being from an incredibly technologically advanced alien place), but to counter it thematically, they also went with a Lois who's also older than Clark, and the dynamics of their relationship were pushed to the forefront (we actually get scenes with dialogue of the characters contemplating their roles in this dynamic), whereas in Endgame, it's mostly left to the viewer to interpret half-thought out wish fulfillment scenarios through the lens of canon and continuity. I would say tread lightly and really consider your perspective in the argument before posting. I would sincerely like to moderate the forums by allowing these topics to be discussed, as long as they are discussed with sincerity and decorum appropriate to the gravity of the topics. Power dynamics in a relationship can be a topic of discussion with regards to superhero films, but only if it's treated with enough care as the topic deserves. That's a complex discussion, and there can be aspects to it that, without attention, can be insensitive and disruptive to actual conversation. If you approach it as such, then I won't have issues with it. But if someone decides to be an rear end in a top hat and only approach these discussions so as to agitate people, be vulgar or disrespectful, then there is no more room for them in the discussion. I would also say that that specific example is probably better suited for the Snyderdome than in here, since it is more about MoS's attempts to handle the idea, instead of Endgame's lack of handling it. There are very real issues in the world, and film allows us a chance to discuss and learn about these issues. However, there are topics that are difficult to discuss with decorum. Rape is a very real and horrific trauma people experience, and I have known different victims of different types of abuse, from rape, molestation, spousal abuse, etc. And guess what? I don't want them joked about on the forum I'm in charge of. They are serious topics and deserve to be treated as such. If a poster does not have the maturity to discuss those subjects with the necessary care, then they should either avoid the discussion, learn from it, or will be forcefully removed from it, or the topic will be banned from the thread. It's 2019 and rape jokes aren't funny. 
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May 13, 2019 20:15
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euphronius posted:Be interesting to see who disappears if he chose to vaporize “all villains” I don't think he did that. I think he just erased everything created or controlled by Thanos. He didn't even undo the damage that was done already in the battle.
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May 13, 2019 20:27
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Pretty sure he just asked the stones to remove everyone who returned “not from this timeline” in a database query.
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May 13, 2019 20:29
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euphronius posted:Pretty sure he just asked the stones to remove everyone who returned “not from this timeline” in a database query. Alt-Gamora didn't get vaporized. Though she didn't stick around afterwards, either.
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May 13, 2019 20:35
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What did the movie show? She was just gone. Right ?
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May 13, 2019 20:36
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euphronius posted:What did the movie show? She was just gone. Right ? I think the map Quill was looking at at the end was him searching for her (and coming up empty). I only saw it once, though. So yeah she took off.
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May 13, 2019 20:41
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Yeah there is a zero percent chance they dusted her off-screen. If she got dusted it would totally be *a moment* and we'd see at least Nebula if not Quill witnessing it happen and getting an emotional goodbye. The search thing at the end of the movie was indicating that she peaced out before Quill could catch up with her and now he was trying to search for her.
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May 13, 2019 20:50
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presumably Guardians 3 will be The Search for Green Chick
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May 13, 2019 20:52
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FuturePastNow posted:presumably Guardians 3 will be The Search for Green Chick And then explaining all the things they did together and how that made her feel and that's why she should love him back. There's really no good way to do this, it would have been better to leave her dead.
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May 13, 2019 20:59
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Good. Gamora never should have been interested in that fuckboy in the first place. She will be a more interesting character without quill dragging her down
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May 13, 2019 21:01
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It'll be about First Mate Thor getting them to do literally anything else
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May 13, 2019 21:08
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Nail Rat posted:And then explaining all the things they did together and how that made her feel and that's why she should love him back. Maybe Mantis can re-image her brain from the last backup or something RBA Starblade posted:It'll be about First Mate Thor getting them to do literally anything else also this
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May 13, 2019 21:16
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The Steve Rogers scene at the end is made easier by just not watching the garbage TV shows and treating them as not canon.
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May 13, 2019 21:19
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FuturePastNow posted:Maybe Mantis can re-image her brain from the last backup or something Sounds like something you'd need consent for, I don't think 2014 Gamora would submit herself to that voluntarily.
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May 13, 2019 21:59
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It does seem odd that they chose to reference Agent Carter when that Jarvis moment would have been a pretty appropriate place for a Paul Bettany cameo and would have fit these two movies a little better.
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May 13, 2019 22:00
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LesterGroans posted:It does seem odd that they chose to reference Agent Carter when that Jarvis moment would have been a pretty appropriate place for a Paul Bettany cameo and would have fit these two movies a little better. It's pretty funny how no one gives a poo poo about Vision at all except for Scarlet Witch
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May 13, 2019 22:02
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Yeah Vision really got short shrift in these movies.
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May 13, 2019 22:05
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RBA Starblade posted:It's pretty funny how no one gives a poo poo about Vision at all except for Scarlet Witch I was watching one of those "here's all the easter eggs in Endgame thing" and when it got to the part where Wanda is consoling Clint and is like "she's watching you know, they both are" the narrator literally says "what she means here is that both Natasha and Gamora are watching because their souls have been preserved inside the soul stone" which -- even ignoring that the soul stone has been destroyed and Wanda doesn't even know whotf Gamora is -- just hilariously forgets that Vision even existed and someone on the team might miss him.
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May 13, 2019 22:09
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Guy A. Person posted:I was watching one of those "here's all the easter eggs in Endgame thing" and when it got to the part where Wanda is consoling Clint and is like "she's watching you know, they both are" the narrator literally says "what she means here is that both Natasha and Gamora are watching because their souls have been preserved inside the soul stone" which -- even ignoring that the soul stone has been destroyed and Wanda doesn't even know whotf Gamora is -- just hilariously forgets that Vision even existed and someone on the team might miss him. My first thought with that line was actually her brother, haha. I give shits about these movies and even I forgot about vision.
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May 13, 2019 22:11
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They also forgot all about Natasha by the end. The only superheroine for the first half of the series got left out of their female heroes moment. But hey, at least Hawkeye got his wife and kids and his memories of a 5-year murder spree that no one will ever mention again.
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May 13, 2019 22:22
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FuturePastNow posted:They also forgot all about Natasha by the end. The only superheroine for the first half of the series got left out of their female heroes moment. And a lovely sleeve tatt.
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May 13, 2019 22:23
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natasha and gamora aren't even preserved in the same soul stone and gamora's soul is destroyed or at the very least 'gone'
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May 13, 2019 22:24
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FuturePastNow posted:They also forgot all about Natasha by the end. The only superheroine for the first half of the series got left out of their female heroes moment. But she is still getting a movie. Really striking while the iron is hot, after the character is dead
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May 13, 2019 22:56
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Slowpoke! posted:The Steve Rogers scene at the end is made easier by just not watching the garbage TV shows and treating them as not canon. If the writers' word is canon, then I believe Steve is in a closed time loop. I made a diagram, but I'm not sure if it's right. I think it is.  Though, I'm not sure how the above would be possible if the MCU's time travel is the branched reality kind, which is what the Russo bros confirmed. Conflicting ideas 
teagone fucked around with this message at 23:09 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 23:06
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teagone posted:If the writers' word is canon, then I believe Steve is in a closed time loop. I made a diagram, but I'm not sure if it's right. I think it is. Honestly the easiest answer is "Captain America, during his adventures returning the stones, found some way to return to his own reality earlier. Maybe Tilda Swinton told him as thanks for not dooming her reality" or something like that. We already know from Endgame that there are multiple possible answers to time travel, it's possible Pym Particle stuff does not work the same way as, I donno, Dr. Doom's Time Platform. Edit: Which IIRC would actually fit in Marvel comic canon where IIRC time travel can't alter your own timeline unless you're using a specific time machine anyway, which is why The Thing is canonically Blackbeard the Pirate.
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May 13, 2019 23:22
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:But she is still getting a movie. Really striking while the iron is hot, after the character is dead She'd always have been best in a prequel, because her superspy/assassin thing works better on a smaller scale and without the superpowered Stark tech.
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May 13, 2019 23:25
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly the easiest answer is "Captain America, during his adventures returning the stones, found some way to return to his own reality earlier. Maybe Tilda Swinton told him as thanks for not dooming her reality" or something like that. We already know from Endgame that there are multiple possible answers to time travel, it's possible Pym Particle stuff does not work the same way as, I donno, Dr. Doom's Time Platform. The writers have said that Cap was the husband Peggy was talking about in Winter Soldier, so according to them, Cap never left the main MCU timeline or caused a branched timeline/reality. He went into the past of the main MCU timeline and lived his life out. The reason Old Cap is near the lake at the end of Endgame is because he knew Sam and Bucky would be there, because that's the moment he left to head back in time to return the stones. Old Cap didn't go back to the future, he was always there. That's according to the writers. The diagram I made doesn't show separate timelines, it's showing the path of Cap's loop in the main timeline we see. [edit] Just to be clear, when you "start" at 1945 and follow the paths, both the Cap that went back in time and the Cap that's frozen in the ice are in the same timeline. teagone fucked around with this message at 23:36 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 23:29
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basically all of this makes way more sense if cap just...dies, and he has his happy moment in the afterlife, instead of putting mjolnir back and then doing god knows what for 70 years in a dimension that may or may not be ours
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May 13, 2019 23:35
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ungulateman posted:basically all of this makes way more sense if cap just...dies, and he has his happy moment in the afterlife, instead of putting mjolnir back and then doing god knows what for 70 years in a dimension that may or may not be ours I agree. Cap dancing with Peggy in the soul stone dimension after snapping the gauntlet would have been way more affecting imo. [edit] Added a "Cap marries Peggy" point on the diagram 
teagone fucked around with this message at 23:47 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 23:40
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Ahh i like the same cap in the same time line but just like low key wearing a fake beard to remain anonymous.
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May 13, 2019 23:46
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It's irrelevant what the writers or directors say in interviews when the actual movie contradicts the closed loop. Also it would be stupid even by Marvel standards, no one would recognize Captain America as the husband of Peggy Carter all these years? The correct answer is that Disney does not care about a coherent narrative and it is just all hacked together. Like how they just want you to ignore Thor Ragnarok.
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May 13, 2019 23:46
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Junkozeyne posted:It's irrelevant what the writers or directors say in interviews when the actual movie contradicts the closed loop. Yeah, I know. But I just want to point out and diagram what the writers are implying wrt time travel when they say Steve was Peggy's husband all along.
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May 13, 2019 23:48
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teagone posted:The writers have said that Cap was the husband Peggy was talking about in Winter Soldier, so according to them, Cap never left the main MCU timeline or caused a branched timeline/reality. He went into the past of the main MCU timeline and lived his life out. The reason Old Cap is near the lake at the end of Endgame is because he knew Sam and Bucky would be there, because that's the moment he left to head back in time to return the stones. Old Cap didn't go back to the future, he was always there. That's according to the writers. The diagram I made doesn't show separate timelines, it's showing the path of Cap's loop in the main timeline we see. drat I never thought about the fact that Cap never reappears in the time machine like he should. That kinda confirms what the writers said. And it also contradicts everything else said about time travel in the movie so it's stupid as hell. Also the whole incest thing.
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May 14, 2019 00:01
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The Cap ending is both fitting and weird. I went into the movie expecting Cap to stand up for the little guy one more time, throwing himself between Thanos and the gauntlet. So the writers flipped the script, putting Ironman and Black Widow in that role and letting Cap and Hulk ride off into the sunset. It’s a choice and is interesting, but Cap coming back as an old guy was a little too cute. Still, there is also a scenario here where Cap does tell her everything and she has seen enough weird stuff to know he is speaking the truth. And he does tell her about Hydra’s plans but by the time Hydra makes its move, Cap and Peggy are older and forced out and considered, like Hank Pym, forgotten or “old fashioned”. Just because he knows Bucky is alive, how does he know where to find him? Or by exposing that one bad scientist guy, do higher ups want proof and yet the proof is in the future? As we see in real life, smart people see warning signs all the time and don’t make the right choice. Institutional change is hard. Lots of holes and questions - the movie could have simplified some things and gotten where it needed to go, but I get it was a daunting task.
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May 14, 2019 00:35
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At the very least he must’ve told Peggy about the time travel because of the scene where he meets her in Winter Soldier.
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May 14, 2019 00:39
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Junkozeyne posted:It's irrelevant what the writers or directors say in interviews when the actual movie contradicts the closed loop. Only if you take the words of Hulk or The Ancient One as absolute truth rather than best guesses. quote:Also it would be stupid even by Marvel standards, no one would recognize Captain America as the husband of Peggy Carter all these years? quote:The correct answer is that Disney does not care about a coherent narrative and it is just all hacked together. Like how they just want you to ignore Thor Ragnarok. Oh ok
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May 14, 2019 00:41
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:
Howard Stark who founded SHIELD with Peggy? All the Hydra dudes inside of SHIELD? Tommy Lee Jones?
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May 14, 2019 00:43
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Only if you take the words of Hulk or The Ancient One as absolute truth rather than best guesses. I don't think someone with a title like "The Ancient One" would be prone to making guesses.
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May 14, 2019 00:52
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