|
Timby posted:I don't get this criticism at all. It's not like Lucas wasn't pulling everything out of his rear end on the original trilogy. It's probably because you have two directors with completely opposite ideas of where things are going. JJ set up a direction for the story to go, albeit poorly. Rian put a big "X" through JJ's open-ended story elements and did his own thing. Say what you will about Lucas' overall plan (Splinter of A Mind's Eye versus Empire Strikes Back), but he never completely reversed course on villains, personalities, or story themes between movies in the Original Trilogy.
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 05:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Say what you will about Lucas' overall plan (Splinter of A Mind's Eye versus Empire Strikes Back), but he never completely reversed course on villains, personalities, or story themes between movies in the Original Trilogy. 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 05:40
|
|
|
I think people have a hard time understanding that "Lucas planned everything ahead of time to the last detail" and "Lucas made up literally everything on set as the actors were speaking it" are not the only two options to choose from. Yes Lucas changed stuff and made up new stuff as he went along, and yes he allowed the story to grow into new places. But he also had a general idea of what the stories central themes were, what the ideas he wanted to get across were, how the aforementioned fit in with what had happened previously in the story, and a general idea of where he wanted things to end up.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 05:52
|
|
|
Flavius Aetass posted:Yeah but before the prequels they were a mystical order of warrior monks and more importantly unambiguously good and right. Before the prequels the Jedi were a mystical order of a con man and a hermit. Unambiguous they were not.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 06:31
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:I think people have a hard time understanding that "Lucas planned everything ahead of time to the last detail" and "Lucas made up literally everything on set as the actors were speaking it" are not the only two options to choose from. Yes Lucas changed stuff and made up new stuff as he went along, and yes he allowed the story to grow into new places. But he also had a general idea of what the stories central themes were, what the ideas he wanted to get across were, how the aforementioned fit in with what had happened previously in the story, and a general idea of where he wanted things to end up. Thank you, this is what I was trying to get across
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 07:18
|
|
|
Flavius Aetass posted:Yeah but before the prequels they were a mystical order of warrior monks and more importantly unambiguously good and right. Yeah, I remember the end of Return of the Jedi, when Luke decided Ben and Yoda were unambiguously right about Vader being irredeemable. Very powerful moment.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 10:28
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:Yeah, I remember the end of Return of the Jedi, when Luke decided Ben and Yoda were unambiguously right about Vader being irredeemable. Very powerful moment. Them personally giving up after everything that had happened isn't an indictment on the Jedi as a whole.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:05
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:I think people have a hard time understanding that "Lucas planned everything ahead of time to the last detail" and "Lucas made up literally everything on set as the actors were speaking it" are not the only two options to choose from. Yes Lucas changed stuff and made up new stuff as he went along, and yes he allowed the story to grow into new places. But he also had a general idea of what the stories central themes were, what the ideas he wanted to get across were, how the aforementioned fit in with what had happened previously in the story, and a general idea of where he wanted things to end up.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:29
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/1133573219695308800 Well, okay then.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:40
|
|
|
Is that really Pablo Hidalgo's twitter account? And if so, is he really not verified?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:50
|
|
|
Yes and yes.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:00
|
|
|
Han Cheated First.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:02
|
|
|
REY SOLO
|
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:17
|
|
|
cargohills posted:Yes and yes. Huh. I had doubts when I saw how much of it was just pencil drawings of Transformers.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:22
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:REY SOLO "Brother Ben Solo, where does our last name come from?" "Didn't Dad tell you? Some guy gave it to him when he was real emo and sad. Our real last name is Handerson."
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:36
|
|
|
I'm curious how and why we're supposed to think of Rey and her generation as correcting the flaws of her forebears. Thus far she hasn't really demonstrated what would differentiate her and prevent her from being a failure as Abrams claims. People place importance on the fact that she's not a Skywalker, but rather than expressing the idea that anyone can be a hero, it just makes her seem like a Great Woman who is inexplicably superior just because she is, to the point where the lightsaber that used to just be a personal family heirloom of the Skywalkers has turned into Excalightsabur for some reason. If anything, characters like Han, Lando, the Ewoks, and Artoo represent the idea that some kind of divine specialness isn't necessary to be a hero far more than she does. Also, the idea that post-Vietnam America was a time of uncomplicated, uncynical hope is laughable in general, but that's beside the point that Rey and the other new heroes haven't been effectively represented as meaningfully overcoming the faults of the previous generation at all.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 15:56
|
|
|
Flavius Aetass posted:Them personally giving up after everything that had happened isn't an indictment on the Jedi as a whole. Take away Obiwan and Yoda and you're not left with an order of unambigious warrior monks, you're left with Darth Vader. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 16:21
|
|
|
Beeez posted:I'm curious how and why we're supposed to think of Rey and her generation as correcting the flaws of her forebears. Thus far she hasn't really demonstrated what would differentiate her and prevent her from being a failure as Abrams claims. People place importance on the fact that she's not a Skywalker, but rather than expressing the idea that anyone can be a hero, it just makes her seem like a Great Woman who is inexplicably superior just because she is, to the point where the lightsaber that used to just be a personal family heirloom of the Skywalkers has turned into Excalightsabur for some reason. If anything, characters like Han, Lando, the Ewoks, and Artoo represent the idea that some kind of divine specialness isn't necessary to be a hero far more than she does. Also, the idea that post-Vietnam America was a time of uncomplicated, uncynical hope is laughable in general, but that's beside the point that Rey and the other new heroes haven't been effectively represented as meaningfully overcoming the faults of the previous generation at all. The real answer is that no one involved in the creation thought about the story at that level, so it's just left vacuous. The meta answer is that Rey and crew's smug awareness of their own inherent superiority is, in itself, their virtue. Rey is impervious to the dark side because she never really bothered to even think about it
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 16:48
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Huh. I had doubts when I saw how much of it was just pencil drawings of Transformers. Pablo goes out of his way to try to not talk about Star Wars now. Apparently even his non-SW stuff is construed and twisted into being about SW too by Reddit. He attended a non-SW event in NYC with some people, including Rian Johnson. Reddit turned it into a big consultation thing about Johnson's trilogy.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
Rey is better because she doesn’t gently caress—she’s an antinatalist. Let it all fall.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 17:55
|
|
|
Beeez posted:I'm curious how and why we're supposed to think of Rey and her generation as correcting the flaws of her forebears. Thus far she hasn't really demonstrated what would differentiate her and prevent her from being a failure as Abrams claims. People place importance on the fact that she's not a Skywalker, but rather than expressing the idea that anyone can be a hero, it just makes her seem like a Great Woman who is inexplicably superior just because she is, to the point where the lightsaber that used to just be a personal family heirloom of the Skywalkers has turned into Excalightsabur for some reason. If anything, characters like Han, Lando, the Ewoks, and Artoo represent the idea that some kind of divine specialness isn't necessary to be a hero far more than she does. Also, the idea that post-Vietnam America was a time of uncomplicated, uncynical hope is laughable in general, but that's beside the point that Rey and the other new heroes haven't been effectively represented as meaningfully overcoming the faults of the previous generation at all. Rey and co are good because they like Star Wars and buy Star Wars merchandise. Luke used to like Star Wars, but he sold his merchandise collection after the prequels came out. Kylo Ren only likes Revenge of the Sith, and the rest of the First Order haven't seen any of the movies.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Teek posted:Pablo goes out of his way to try to not talk about Star Wars now. Apparently even his non-SW stuff is construed and twisted into being about SW too by Reddit. He attended a non-SW event in NYC with some people, including Rian Johnson. Reddit turned it into a big consultation thing about Johnson's trilogy. Wtf is this? That's like Guy Fieri going on a talk show and begging people to stop asking him about kitschy diners
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 22:00
|
|
|
pospysyl posted:Rey and co are good because they like Star Wars and buy Star Wars merchandise. Luke used to like Star Wars, but he sold his merchandise collection after the prequels came out. Kylo Ren only likes Revenge of the Sith, and the rest of the First Order haven't seen any of the movies. This...this makes a lot of sense
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 22:10
|
|
|
Im only making this to search for an old post, I love you guys.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 23:25
|
|
|
Mameluke posted:Wtf is this? That's like Guy Fieri going on a talk show and begging people to stop asking him about kitschy diners Well Fieri did like the tacos served in Chalmun's Spaceport Cantina.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 12:20
|
|
C-Bangin' it 
|
Colostomy Bag posted:Well Fieri did like the tacos served in Chalmun's Spaceport Cantina.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 13:41
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:He was not as big of a fan of Dexter Jettster’s diner though I think his main critique was not enough donkey sauce on the nachos.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 13:52
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:He was not as big of a fan of Dexter Jettster’s diner though I'd watch a food show that toured famous fictional diners from cinema.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 14:45
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:I'd watch a food show that toured famous fictional diners from cinema. Yes, always wanted to know what happens when creating a 'Vader Slider'.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2019 14:57
|
|
|
Every so often I will remember the words “Elan Sleazebaggano” and think to myself, hey this star wars thing is alright.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
Beeez posted:I'm curious how and why we're supposed to think of Rey and her generation as correcting the flaws of her forebears. Thus far she hasn't really demonstrated what would differentiate her and prevent her from being a failure as Abrams claims. People place importance on the fact that she's not a Skywalker, but rather than expressing the idea that anyone can be a hero, it just makes her seem like a Great Woman who is inexplicably superior just because she is, to the point where the lightsaber that used to just be a personal family heirloom of the Skywalkers has turned into Excalightsabur for some reason. If anything, characters like Han, Lando, the Ewoks, and Artoo represent the idea that some kind of divine specialness isn't necessary to be a hero far more than she does. Also, the idea that post-Vietnam America was a time of uncomplicated, uncynical hope is laughable in general, but that's beside the point that Rey and the other new heroes haven't been effectively represented as meaningfully overcoming the faults of the previous generation at all. It's also redundant. The PT and OT (whatever you think of their quality) already did the sins of the father stuff. Chad Luke made the right choices where the Virgin Anakin made the wrong ones, like how Luke treated Vader in the throne room vs how Anakin treated Dooku. You don't even need the PT for this, as even in the OT themselves, the older generation are clearly wrong/bad/stupid. For example: "What I told you is true, from a certain point of view" said Obi-Wan after being caught in a huge loving lie "Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression - the dark side of the Force, are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice" said Yoda, shortly before Obi-Wan's apprentice turned back from the dark side "I MUST obey my master" said Darth Vader just before turning on his master and throwing him down a shaft You can see from the first two how Luke already knew the old Jedi ways were poo poo and he should come up with his own new way. So the story of the previous generation being poo poo and the current generation fixing their gently caress-ups has already been told in Star Wars. And told better. By undoing the victory of RotJ they created a problem in that now the audience might believe that even if Rey & Friends fix all the things in Ep IX, there still might be an Episode X sometime that says "Boy, things are poo poo! Rey totally hosed it up!" So there's no investment.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 07:18
|
|
|
I just really wanted ROTJ to mean something. It's my favorite Star Wars film, and mainly because Luke is my boy. He goes from being a gawky loser from Tatooine who gets owned by everybody and their brother in A New Hope to being a calm, confident Jedi who manages to do bring his father back from the brink.garycoleisgod posted:Chad Luke made the right choices where the Virgin Anakin made the wrong ones, like how Luke treated Vader in the throne room vs how Anakin treated Dooku. 100% this. It's only by showing restraint that Luke manages to beat Palpatine because it gives Vader the chance to make the right choice, save his son and eliminate the monster he managed to put in power. Seeing that victory get swept away with TFA in a confusing jumble of exposition, explosions, and easter eggs (HURRR, LOOK AT THE POD RACING FLAGS IN MAZ KANATA'S CANTINA, HURRR) just loving sucked. It killed my interest in the Sequel Trilogy. Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 08:28 on May 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 07:47
|
|
|
tfa is basically a sequel to revenge of the sith (which sort of makes sense when you think about it, since the movies were released in that order) and in order for the in-universe chronology to make sense they kinda have to skirt around the 'phantom trilogy' that takes place between 6 and 7, because it's not sufficiently different from the real existing 1-3 trilogy to be worth making
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 08:26
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:100% this. It's only by showing restraint that Luke manages to beat Palpatine because it gives Vader the chance to make the right choice, save his son and eliminate the monster he managed to put in power. Meanwhile, the ST doesn't even seem to know how to move on from there. Did Luke tell the galaxy what Vader did? Did he keep it a secret, and therefore enjoy the reputation of killing not only Palpatine but also Vader? Sounds like that'd put a lot of stress on the guy, when people are cheering you on for killing the man only you and one other knew to be your father. Did Luke never talk about it? Quite possibly the biggest moment in the OT, and the ST just kind of ignores it.
|
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 08:32
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:Meanwhile, the ST doesn't even seem to know how to move on from there. Did Luke tell the galaxy what Vader did? Did he keep it a secret, and therefore enjoy the reputation of killing not only Palpatine but also Vader? Sounds like that'd put a lot of stress on the guy, when people are cheering you on for killing the man only you and one other knew to be your father. Did Luke never talk about it? Quite possibly the biggest moment in the OT, and the ST just kind of ignores it. Everyone: Wait, what happened to the New Republic? Why did Luke change so much? WHAT IS GOING ON??? Sequel Trilogy: A good question for another time  (All questions to be answered in Episodes XXXI-XLIII)
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 08:41
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Seeing that victory get swept away with TFA in a confusing jumble of exposition, explosions, and easter eggs (HURRR, LOOK AT THE POD RACING FLAGS IN MAZ KANATA'S CANTINA, HURRR) just loving sucked. It killed my interest in the Sequel Trilogy. There was exposition in TFA? I suppose "The First Order is terrible, A new emperor has arisen and Luke is hiding" counts as exposition. But it's not very good exposition.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 08:51
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:Meanwhile, the ST doesn't even seem to know how to move on from there. Did Luke tell the galaxy what Vader did? Did he keep it a secret, and therefore enjoy the reputation of killing not only Palpatine but also Vader? Sounds like that'd put a lot of stress on the guy, when people are cheering you on for killing the man only you and one other knew to be your father. Did Luke never talk about it? Quite possibly the biggest moment in the OT, and the ST just kind of ignores it. He also fails the same situation under extremely milder circumstances.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 10:53
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:Meanwhile, the ST doesn't even seem to know how to move on from there. Did Luke tell the galaxy what Vader did? Did he keep it a secret, and therefore enjoy the reputation of killing not only Palpatine but also Vader? Sounds like that'd put a lot of stress on the guy, when people are cheering you on for killing the man only you and one other knew to be your father. Did Luke never talk about it? Quite possibly the biggest moment in the OT, and the ST just kind of ignores it. Apparently some book you're supposed to read fills in some poo poo the movie never explains. Like everyone finds out vader is leia's dad and that's why she's a guerilla fighter and not president of the galaxy. I'm guessing Luke never mentions vader- redemption because people still hate him.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 11:15
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:Apparently some book you're supposed to read fills in some poo poo the movie never explains. 99% of the audience: "Who are all these new characters being presented as if we should already know who they are and why should we care about them?"
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 12:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:I'm guessing Luke never mentions vader- redemption because people still hate him. People would still hate him because he was the Emperor's right hand for two decades, regardless of what he did in his final moments.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2019 12:15
|
|
