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Too many things happened by having someone look at a computer scanner machine then tell us what’s happening. It feels like they did it because the old movies did it but that was just the old movies being cheap, not a choice they made.
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Jun 2, 2019 04:22
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BiggerBoat posted:Like what, for instance? Not understanding the moms motivation when she literally gives a speech about it. Not understanding how the monsters get around so quickly when you not only see them go through a hollow Earth tunnel, but they have a guy shout about how John Goodman in skull island was right and they get around through hollow Earth tunnels. Like this poo poo is all right there, people are just somehow getting retrograde amnesia for all this poo poo, or just weren't paying attention. If you think the humans were boring or whatever, cool, but don't blame your failure to grasp things the movie screams into your face on the movie.
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Jun 2, 2019 04:43
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean KotM not being as good as Destroy All Monsters is not really damning since DAM is a goddamn masterpiece
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Jun 2, 2019 04:45
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The Kong versus Skull Crawler fight is still the high point of the Legendary series so far, but some of the scenes in here come close. But goddamn the Skull Crawler fight.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:09
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A note on the less-than-stellar KOTM box office numbers: I think the lack of enticing human characters, or very few recurring characters at all in the first place, IS one reason for the Monsterverse's diminishing rate of returns. Here me out: KOTM is the *third* installment and we have Serizawa, Sally Hawkins and the military general. thats it, right? Serizawa is arguably the only interesting one. Now he's dead and btw Sally Hawkins kicked the bucket in such a dismissive, offhand manner, I guess a fitting end to a flat character I disagree with the notion that monsters are the only glue needed for this universe. Big name human characters keep dying. It all started with the horrible miscalculation with Bryan Cranston. Skull Island had the Vietnam era thing which makes it more excusable, not that many lived through that movie anyway. Cool that MBB and Kyle Chandler are back in G vs Kong. But holy poo poo thats it, and they were just introduced...
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Jun 2, 2019 05:19
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Vince MechMahon posted:Not understanding the moms motivation when she literally gives a speech about it What was this again? Also, what was Charles Dance trying to do, exactly? All I remember is he was like “humans are terrible” but the way it was written it didn’t seem like a complete thought.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:26
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Magic Hate Ball posted:What was this again? Also, what was Charles Dance trying to do, exactly? All I remember is he was like “humans are terrible” but the way it was written it didn’t seem like a complete thought. Your standard 'humans pollute/wage wars/kill the environment hence they must be punished' motivation. I honestly wish the Mom was the eco-terrorist so that way you can spare Charles Dance from doing absolutely nothing the entire movie.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:29
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WB/Legendary have clearly made their fair share of missteps in constructing their Godzilla series (I'm guessing that part of the problem was that they didn't really seem to have any particular plans for a wider universe when they were writing Godzilla 2014), but I think the box office issues are much deeper and more structural: a lot of people who wanted to see this movie did like it...the bigger problem is that not many people wanted to see another Godzilla movie to begin with. And that's a problem with roots that go back further than KOTM, back past G'14, through the Emmerich debacle and the VHS bargain bin era and into the days of drive-ins and bad dubbing. I'm not sure that was a problem that could ever have been fully corrected, but in any case the window for it probably closed back in 2014, when the reboot opened huge and then had its legs immediately give out due to mediocre world of mouth. The long and short of this is that I'm not sure Godzilla movies are ever going to be consistently profitable on a Hollywood budget, and I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if Kong vs. Godzilla is the last Hollywood Godzilla movie that gets made in my lifetime.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:30
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Magic Hate Ball posted:What was this again? Also, what was Charles Dance trying to do, exactly? All I remember is he was like “humans are terrible” but the way it was written it didn’t seem like a complete thought. Kaiju will fix the planet with their presence, even if it's at the cost of human civilization as it currently is. We must learn to live together with the kaiju to save the world. That's her whole thing. She just fucks up by waking up the WORST ONE EVER TO DO THIS. Charles Dance doesn't really give a poo poo what happens to humanity, he thinks humanity is a disease that needs to be eradicated but is willing to go along with the crazy science lady's plan that just has us subjugated instead. Then she let out the world killer and he was all for it.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:31
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Magic Hate Ball posted:What was this again? Also, what was Charles Dance trying to do, exactly? All I remember is he was like “humans are terrible” but the way it was written it didn’t seem like a complete thought. I believe there was even a line from him when it's revealed ghidora is an alien and will cause a true end of the world and he's like "eh, sure, whatever gets the job done", so basically he just wants all humanity wiped out by any means necessary
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Jun 2, 2019 05:33
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Now, notably, he was 100% fine with just doing Emma's plan. Release the kaiju, break human society in half, probably genocide a good portion He was really, really reasonable honestly, all things considered.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:36
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I think they should have made the mom's motivation be much more of the humans have to go, they are destroying the Earth thing. It would have worked better with the dad being all the kill the kaiju. Then you could have Millie Bobby Brown be the one to convince them of coexistence. It would be an extremely Godzilla movie thing to have child character connect the kaiju to humanity. It would also justify having the divorced parent plot. I mean the movie kinda did this, but in kinda sloppy way. They should had made it clearer. It almost seems like they might have changed the mom's story to be more sympathetic at some point.
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Jun 2, 2019 05:54
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interfior posted:I think they should have made the mom's motivation be much more of the humans have to go, they are destroying the Earth thing. It would have worked better with the dad being all the kill the kaiju. Then you could have Millie Bobby Brown be the one to convince them of coexistence. I thought this was exactly what they did, and I thought it was clear almost to the point of being cliche. Like the mother literally wants to wipe out most humans, the father's entire thing up until the oxygen destroyer is "kill all kaiju, ESPECIALLY that fucker godzilla," and then at the end the kid is what brings them both together. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about where I feel like I watched a different movie than everyone else.
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Jun 2, 2019 06:02
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movie was kind of uneven. i was one of the weirdo's who didn't mind the human focused portions of godzilla 2014, but this time around almost all of the human characters were lackluster. one of the things i liked about 2014 is there were no loving quips, no melodrama, no vengeance arc, just a guy trying to get home to his family while everything just goes to poo poo. everyone complained about how nondescript the protagonist was, but i liked how that just emphasized how everything was descending into chaos all around him. it was refreshing to have a monster movie where the military tells the lead who's just discovered monsters exist that they're going to put him on a helicopter and send him home and he's happy to go along with it i won't type out a huge rant about the human characters in kotm, suffice it to say i can't think of a single character who i actively enjoyed. the most memorable bits involving any of the characters where just references to other movies the fights were great to see on the big screen, but i don't know how compelling they'll be if re-watching at home on a smaller screen everything surrounding mothra was the tits though it's kind of telling that i re-watched godzilla 2014 on thursday in anticipation of seeing kotm today and a ton of shots have been stuck in my mind since, while i really can't think of more than two or three that have stayed with me from this movie
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Jun 2, 2019 06:04
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HannibalBarca posted:WB/Legendary have clearly made their fair share of missteps in constructing their Godzilla series (I'm guessing that part of the problem was that they didn't really seem to have any particular plans for a wider universe when they were writing Godzilla 2014), but I think the box office issues are much deeper and more structural: a lot of people who wanted to see this movie did like it...the bigger problem is that not many people wanted to see another Godzilla movie to begin with. And that's a problem with roots that go back further than KOTM, back past G'14, through the Emmerich debacle and the VHS bargain bin era and into the days of drive-ins and bad dubbing. I'm not sure that was a problem that could ever have been fully corrected, but in any case the window for it probably closed back in 2014, when the reboot opened huge and then had its legs immediately give out due to mediocre world of mouth.
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Jun 2, 2019 06:14
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david_a posted:I have a friend who straight up told me “Godzilla movies are never good” when I said I was excited for this movie, so yeah, I’m not sure how many ‘casual’ Godzilla fans there really are Yeah, that's a big part of what I'm getting at. And theoretically you could have had a Godzilla movie that broke through the way superhero movies did (but even that was a gradual process that took several years, not a lightning strike from a single movie), but I think that giant monster movies in general suffer from a structural disadvantage where the characters and the spectacle always have a degree of separation: your Iron Mans and your Luke Skywalkers can combine spectacle and character stuff into one, but it's a lot harder to juggle Godzilla and other monsters with an interesting and well-balanced human cast. Outside of Honda and Sekizawa films early on in the franchise, only a handful of Godzilla movies really accomplished this, and for a variety of reasons even the best of the Godzilla films aren't really accessible to modern Western audiences.
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Jun 2, 2019 06:30
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david_a posted:I have a friend who straight up told me “Godzilla movies are never good” when I said I was excited for this movie, so yeah, I’m not sure how many ‘casual’ Godzilla fans there really are 
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Jun 2, 2019 06:45
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Only way the movie could've been better is if they worked biowars in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlyVD6YnQ-I
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Jun 2, 2019 07:16
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stratofarius posted:Your standard 'humans pollute/wage wars/kill the environment hence they must be punished' motivation. I honestly wish the Mom was the eco-terrorist so that way you can spare Charles Dance from doing absolutely nothing the entire movie. She was. That's the point. From suddenly reviving the macguffin device project which is taken as a surprise maneuver and first hint the protagonists have that something is wrong, to orchestrating the extraction of Ghidora and clearly being the one to intentionally and without duress awaken him (several characters in dialog confirm that plot point-- it was definitely her and definitely on purpose), to the literal televised speech she gives saying "I, scientist lady, am an ecoterrorist." Being a scientist working to take down the system from the inside, she doesn't have mercenaries or heavy equipment. But she gets somebody on board who does, which is the point of Charles Dance.
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Jun 2, 2019 08:34
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Chronojam posted:She was. That's the point. From suddenly reviving the macguffin device project which is taken as a surprise maneuver and first hint the protagonists have that something is wrong, to orchestrating the extraction of Ghidora and clearly being the one to intentionally and without duress awaken him (several characters in dialog confirm that plot point-- it was definitely her and definitely on purpose), to the literal televised speech she gives saying "I, scientist lady, am an ecoterrorist." I said that referring to Charles Dance's character. I wish they were both the same character and then it was revealed that she was the eco-terrorist they had been hunting all along, if only so we don't have Charles Dance taking up a bunch of screen time to stare at people. That's one of two big changes I'd do. The other big change is remove Kyle Chandler and make Millie Bobbie Brown the protagonist. Have her not know what's going on, and then her Mom reveals the truth, and that makes her fight back and run off to join Watanabe and friends, because as it stands, Millie Bobbie Brown is equally wasting time until the plot is like 'alright, time for her to steal a valuable device from under the nose of an eco-terrorist who wisely decided to leave it unattended'.
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Jun 2, 2019 09:43
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Man I can barely remember the humans in 2014 at all. Even less so that Charles Dance' character.
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Jun 2, 2019 10:12
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Okay I went and looked up the names of the new kaiju in this film because I was sick of calling them "the spider one" and "the ape mammoth one" and their names are: Behemoth: ape mammoth. Actually a cross between a mammoth and a giant ground sloth according to one source. Can stand upright to fight, comes from Brazil where the locals call him Mapinguary. Scylla: spider/squid/crab. Comes from the Arizona oil fields, is semi-aquatic, pretty much the new Kumonga. Methuselah: armored quadruped with a forest growing on its shell. Comes from Munich, Germany and is vaguely similar to Anguirus and Baragon. Edit: here's a list of Titan names that appear int he movie but aren't shown: Mokele-Mbembe Baphomet Tiamat Typhoon Abaddon Leviathan Sargon Bunyip
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Jun 2, 2019 11:33
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Sargon Looking forward to Godzilla throwing the world's biggest milkshake at this one.
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Jun 2, 2019 11:48
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Did Charles Dance like, quit the film halfway through? The post credits scene seems to be setting him up as an even bigger threat in a later installment, so expect lots more of him in future.
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Jun 2, 2019 11:52
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The post credits scene seems to be setting him up as an even bigger threat in a later installment, so expect lots more of him in future. I mean that more like I don’t even remember his last scene, it’s like at some point he just stopped being in the movie.
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Jun 2, 2019 12:38
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Did Charles Dance like, quit the film halfway through? After the post credits scene, his character died of a heart attack whilst on the toilet /s
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Jun 2, 2019 13:52
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This movie had everything I wanted but felt empty. I think it’s that the real Godzilla movies either have allegorical stories the writers actually care about OR anime bullshit pro wrestling plots and this movie felt like it included both without caring about either. Like the environment message was just something someone said and didn’t feel like it had stakes, anything about aliens or oxygen destroyers mostly happened in tossed off lines mostly off screen. It didn’t feel like it committed to either side.
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Jun 2, 2019 14:04
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:
Name of thing not directly seen in movie spoiler: Ahahahahah please, next movie, have mecha-king Ghidorah crush a five-headed dragon and then add an eight-headed one named Orochi and have him stomp that one as well to show that it's just a liiiittle more complicated than "more heads = better than."
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Jun 2, 2019 14:11
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Third straight movie where the leads were terrible and probably shouldn't have been in the movie , although Farminga was better than johnson-taylor, Olsen, Larson, Hiddleston and Chandler combined so I shouldn't be that upset. Still quite enjoyable because for all its misses with human characters it hit the ball out of the park on everything else
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Jun 2, 2019 14:14
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Vince MechMahon posted:Not understanding the moms motivation when she literally gives a speech about it. Not understanding how the monsters get around so quickly when you not only see them go through a hollow Earth tunnel, but they have a guy shout about how John Goodman in skull island was right and they get around through hollow Earth tunnels. Like this poo poo is all right there, people are just somehow getting retrograde amnesia for all this poo poo, or just weren't paying attention. If you think the humans were boring or whatever, cool, but don't blame your failure to grasp things the movie screams into your face on the movie. I'm starting to think some of the posters ITT watched a cam rip their roommate put on, and were on their phone for all the bits that were monsters smashing cities. Chronojam posted:She was. That's the point. From suddenly reviving the macguffin device project which is taken as a surprise maneuver and first hint the protagonists have that something is wrong, to orchestrating the extraction of Ghidora and clearly being the one to intentionally and without duress awaken him (several characters in dialog confirm that plot point-- it was definitely her and definitely on purpose), to the literal televised speech she gives saying "I, scientist lady, am an ecoterrorist." In the first few minutes of the film Maddie emailed her dad to say she's worried about mom, the kid knew mom was up to something.
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Jun 2, 2019 14:54
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I was in the theater for the entire movie except for the part where we apparently learn what happened to the little brother and the whole thing feels like a fever dream memory now.
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Jun 2, 2019 15:52
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mllaneza posted:I'm starting to think some of the posters ITT watched a cam rip their roommate put on, and were on their phone for all the bits that were monsters smashing cities. I don't think it's a coincidence that a movie that isn't great in how it presents it's story telling has a larger than average number of people confused about the plot. This movie presents a lot of plot points as random toss off lines or information presented on a screen instead of shown happening. Like whole plotlines that span the entire movie appear and resolve in single lines of dialog. Miss that and they never show or deal with it again.
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Jun 2, 2019 15:55
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Like what in the world was the significance of the mystery of what the secret biofrequency that the orca combined that ended up being humans instead of being godzilla it feels like a plotline that spanned nearly the entire movie but never mattered to anything ever. Why was it secret? What did it do? How did they figure it out at the end? Why did it matter?
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Jun 2, 2019 15:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like what in the world was the significance of the mystery of what the secret biofrequency that the orca combined that ended up being humans instead of being godzilla it feels like a plotline that spanned nearly the entire movie but never mattered to anything ever. Why was it secret? What did it do? How did they figure it out at the end? Why did it matter?
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Jun 2, 2019 16:09
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like what in the world was the significance of the mystery of what the secret biofrequency that the orca combined that ended up being humans instead of being godzilla it feels like a plotline that spanned nearly the entire movie but never mattered to anything ever. Why was it secret? What did it do? How did they figure it out at the end? Why did it matter? Well you see Vera Farmiga knew that her opinions (ie: her voice) could change the course of history as long as she kept them hidden and obscured from everyone for as long as possible, but Dr Dad Whiteman Is Always Right knew that if he could get everyone to cut out their bullshit and just listen to him then the entire world would be saved. Both were right! I may be slightly joking, but only very slightly. 
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Jun 2, 2019 16:11
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Like what in the world was the significance of the mystery of what the secret biofrequency that the orca combined that ended up being humans instead of being godzilla it feels like a plotline that spanned nearly the entire movie but never mattered to anything ever. Why was it secret? What did it do? How did they figure it out at the end? Why did it matter? It’s what made the ORCA work at all. The point of ORCA was to create a signature to communicate with the titans however you couldn’t just broadcast their bioacoustics. It’d confuse or make them aggressive. You needed to tweak the acoustic with something to make it sound like an apex/alpha to help establish dominance. Throughout the movie they kept trying using only titan frequencies and failing. Turns out man is what was missing in order to tune frequency correctly to the top apex predator. Which in a way, we are. I forgot how the dad figures it out, the conversation Anthem we’re having sparked the realization. Ultimately it was used to track the signal and it’s how everyone ends in Boston.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:18
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That was something I was confused about - was that secret combo something the mom had figured out and the other team were trying to catch up on, or was that something that the mom hadn't figured out and the dad then did? Because I don't remember what they did with that information.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:22
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david_a posted:I was confused about that too, but I think it was just so they knew what to search for in order to locate it. I believe that’s how Monarch figured out it got turned on in Boston (although how much that matters is debatable since presumably all 17 titans would be converging on it). I thought they were going to do something with it, like “ooo man’s magic frequency makes them angry” but I guess not. I’m pretty sure Magic Dad just figured it out due to being right about everything. I kinda thought it was supposed to be some sort of evangelion twist and mankind is the 13rh angel/ the 18th titan . Everything about the orca felt so ill defined at all times.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:25
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Saw this yesterday, fell asleep a few times whenever magic dad, crazy mom, or Josh Lyman was on screen. It's crazy just how dull every aspect of the human side of things was this time around, they had nothing interesting to say or do besides trailer dialogue and exposition. The monster action was loving sublime though, I just wish it had been paced better and that they all got introduced with a little more finesse. It also felt like they handled the overall scale of the monsters a bit worse than the past two films, you have humans running around underfoot of these titans and they're barely getting tossed around or hit by any debris or shockwaves or any of that. The titans certainly didn't feel like their actual sizes. I'd probably give it a 6/10 give or take, the human stuff was just irredeemably boring beyond words, I got up to go to the bathroom and get a burger during a scene and it was still going on after like 15 minutes.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:27
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Vince MechMahon posted:Not understanding the moms motivation when she literally gives a speech about it. Not understanding how the monsters get around so quickly when you not only see them go through a hollow Earth tunnel, but they have a guy shout about how John Goodman in skull island was right and they get around through hollow Earth tunnels. Like this poo poo is all right there, people are just somehow getting retrograde amnesia for all this poo poo, or just weren't paying attention. If you think the humans were boring or whatever, cool, but don't blame your failure to grasp things the movie screams into your face on the movie. Thanks for the response To be clear (and not sure if this was directed right at me or the thread in general), I understood mom's motivation well enough. I just thought it was a hard sell and extremely dumb. Not getting the underwater Atlantis tunnels/fast travelling monsters right away I'll cop to although, once I posted it, I remembered that part and edited it in. Still doesn't explain how the humans had fast travel and exactly where the populations of massive cities were supposed to be evacuating to. I'm glad you liked it but, as exposition heavy as the film was, after a while it got really east to tune out and glaze over with any of the character driven scenes. Was Always Right Dad in the 2014 movie? Is there a reason everyone cedes authority to this dude? I was entertained enough with the movie and IMAX helped the experience but, a day later, I can't shake the Independence Day comparisons and leaving the theater feeling flat and let down. Someone else asked "why do they have to do this same, stupid Hollywood stuff all the time in these movies?" and I pretty much felt the same way.
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Jun 2, 2019 16:29
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