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i think what this calls for, is another kickstarter campaign to bribe gz into salvaging the good content and putting it into something playable.
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Jun 3, 2019 18:47
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The damage elements were Normal, B.I.O. , Cosmic, Cyber, Zauber and Mental. They all had some associated effects and status ailments, and also had their associated gun materials. There were 8 at the start of the game instead, but at that point the elements were something different, the 8 were more like bullet types than just damage types, like one of them seeked enemies, one was explosive etc, thats why there were more afaik. As we worked on the game more, the idea evolved to have guns be more modular, and have the bullet behaviors come from the gun's various pieces and affixes, like "Orbiting Assault rifle" would shoot bullets that spin around you like a shield. This grew to be extremely complex to build, but in the end actually worked fairly well, and im very happy with what the guns are like now. But as others stated, cool guns arnt really enough if the combat and enemies are too simple to warrant them, if most combat is just kiting enemies around until they're dead. And like many have stated, we all contributed to making the game overly complex and convoluted. "That's the joke" etc. Im the one who pushed for having gun materials, which two years later led to me drawing 2001 loving gun sprites. An entirely self-inflicted wound. The idea of gun materials was that it would be one of the main ways we "gate" higher level gun drops, by controlling which enemies drop what materials of weapons. It also added a lot of diversity to the weaponry you find, and made gun fusion really fun, because you could end up with really absurd-looking weapons after just a little bit of experimentation. Like a revolver made out of brains, an origami sniper rifle or leather machinegun turning into a studded leather machinegun. The gun materials affected the weapons' stats and stat growth, but also sometimes applied special effects to the shots that could then mix with the affixes and made really cool results. Like, the "SALT" material made a bunch of guns with salt shakers at the end, and they all fired shotgun-like spread shots of salt, so that material essentially turned any weapon into a bit of a shotgun. Another material (Itano) made any of its shots into enemy-seeking rockets that left behind smoke trails, so it basically turned any weapon into a heat-seeking mini rocket launcher. Another super absurd idea I pushed for was to have the gun's type (pistol, revolver, rocket launcher, double-barelled shotgun etc) come from this absurd system that involved a procedurally-generated colored map on which there are continents and islands representing each gun type, different for every game but built with a rough internal logic (similar weapons' lands are close to one another) , and every weapon in the game "lives" somewhere in that map, and fusing two weapons made those two "meet in the middle" based on their relative power to decide what new weapon type they are. In my defense though, I then immediately built that absurd idea and as far as I know, that is still the same code working in the game now, but its definitely one of these absurd ideas that could have degenerated and added to these problems. People here talk about bhroom like he's the "PR guy" but he's done a lot of work on making sense of all of these ideas and figuring out much of the math for balancing them, there's these big complex spreadsheets he made to organize and list all of these things and how they combine etc, like growth charts to see how many times you can fuse weapons together before they become too strong that, after tweaking, could export out a file we could import in the game to change the game's balance. The main problem has been that these ideas are not worth much if the combat isn't fun, and we never focused enough on just making the most basic combat gameplay work better.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:03
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THIS AIN'T BARKLEY 2: The UNofficial Porn Parody of the game The Magical Realms of Tír na nÓg: Escape from Necron 7 – Revenge of Cuchulainn: The Official Game of the Movie – Chapter 2 of the Hoopz Barkley SaGa
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Jun 3, 2019 19:05
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oddium posted:was anyone else gifted a pozzo key a few years ago or just me
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Jun 3, 2019 19:06
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God that guns generation sounds so good. I am super unhappy we won’t get to play with these guns.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:08
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FrankieSmileShow posted:Another super absurd idea I pushed for was to have the gun's type (pistol, revolver, rocket launcher, double-barelled shotgun etc) come from this absurd system that involved a procedurally-generated colored map on which there are continents and islands representing each gun type, different for every game but built with a rough internal logic (similar weapons' lands are close to one another) , and every weapon in the game "lives" somewhere in that map, and fusing two weapons made those two "meet in the middle" based on their relative power to decide what new weapon type they are. In my defense though, I then immediately built that absurd idea and as far as I know, that is still the same code working in the game now, but its definitely one of these absurd ideas that could have degenerated and added to these problems.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:09
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FrankieSmileShow posted:
lmao
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Jun 3, 2019 19:11
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FrankieSmileShow posted:And like many have stated, we all contributed to making the game overly complex and convoluted. "That's the joke" etc. See, this sounds REALLY COOL, and I'd love to play a game that does this. But it'd work much better (or at least be conceivably possible for a small team to build) in a simple rogue-like than in a giant ARPG, and as you said, the enemies would have to be built from the ground-up to work with the system. I'm pretty sure the Enter the Gungeon devs spent as much time on the enemy design as the gun design. Any one of the ideas from Barkley 2 would have made a good game, in its own as the core conceit of a game. All together, obviously, and without anyone cutting and focusing, they ended up making a mess.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:12
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FrankieSmileShow posted:Another super absurd idea I pushed for was to have the gun's type (pistol, revolver, rocket launcher, double-barelled shotgun etc) come from this absurd system that involved a procedurally-generated colored map on which there are continents and islands representing each gun type, different for every game but built with a rough internal logic (similar weapons' lands are close to one another) , and every weapon in the game "lives" somewhere in that map, and fusing two weapons made those two "meet in the middle" based on their relative power to decide what new weapon type they are. In my defense though, I then immediately built that absurd idea and as far as I know, that is still the same code working in the game now, but its definitely one of these absurd ideas that could have degenerated and added to these problems. This is actually cool lol
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Jun 3, 2019 19:13
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please open source that, that's amazing
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Jun 3, 2019 19:14
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FrankieSmileShow posted:Another material (Itano) made any of its shots into enemy-seeking rockets that left behind smoke trails, so it basically turned any weapon into a heat-seeking mini rocket launcher. I'm in the "I never was really invested in this project for the shooting gameplay" camp but if you actually got the Itano effect down, it's real sad if I don't get to play this
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Jun 3, 2019 19:15
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This is the Greatest Game Never Made.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:15
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https://twitter.com/topherflorence/status/1135610156740415489
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Jun 3, 2019 19:16
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FrankieSmileShow posted:Another super absurd idea I pushed for was to have the gun's type (pistol, revolver, rocket launcher, double-barelled shotgun etc) come from this absurd system that involved a procedurally-generated colored map on which there are continents and islands representing each gun type, different for every game but built with a rough internal logic (similar weapons' lands are close to one another) , and every weapon in the game "lives" somewhere in that map, and fusing two weapons made those two "meet in the middle" based on their relative power to decide what new weapon type they are. In my defense though, I then immediately built that absurd idea and as far as I know, that is still the same code working in the game now, but its definitely one of these absurd ideas that could have degenerated and added to these problems. This owns and unfortunately someone should've told you to work on it later 
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Jun 3, 2019 19:20
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I remember hearing about the "gun map" at some point (kickstarter i think?) and i always thought it sounded like a disaster of an idea, but the way you explained it doesn't seem too crazy. It's basically just a grid with all the weapon types laid out with a fancy method of rng, but in a pattern that can be easily read and edited by a person. Cool idea.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:21
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get that OUT of my face posted:Cboyardee, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear the music you made, and I'm sure I'm not alone. What Frankie left out was that the gun's system was based on the periodic table. Each material for gun's corresponded to an element on the table, and mixing two gun's together would create a new gun based on some weird science stuff. I don't think I had a hand in this system, because if I had, it would have been even more bizarre and untenable. But like Frankie said, all this stuff sounds cool, but the battle system was never refined to the point that it would have actually improved it.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:22
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Jun 3, 2019 19:24
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To be clear, the gun's being modular and gun fusion was an idea in the game at the start, thats not from me. That was in the original big design, a core idea of the game I think. The things I "pushed for" that I mentioned above were just specifically the "materials", and the specific way to decide on "gun types" in fusions. I dont want to make it seem like im taking credit for the general idea of having cool weapon effects combine together. Bhroom pushed for an equally absurd idea for deciding the gun material result (edit: that chef mentioned above, I just noticed!), that is also currently in the game and working fine as far as I know: that all of the gun materials are actually elements that fit onto a periodic table of elements, with atomic numbers etc (each material having an actual real world element counterpart, and a few materials ARE a real world element like Gold, Iron etc, and those have their proper place on that table) and the fusions result actually use logic inspired of chemistry, based on atom orbitals and whatever, and that this was supposed to be one of the biggest loving secrets of the game, never to be revealed to players whatsoever, something people were supposed to realize only much later after having made charts of how materials seem to relate to one another, with the few real-world element materials being huge hints about it. Another absurd idea, but this one I dont remember who came up with it (might be chef, bort or bhroom, or might have come from a brainstorm of several people) was to have the affixes work from genes, with recessive and dominant genes and whatnot. Again, this is all, as far as I know, in the game and working correctly right now. Like, some of these absurd ideas we actually put together and they worked. FrankieSmileShow fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 19:30
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Just take these posts about periodic table gun’s and make a new kickstarter bing bang boom 500k raised no problem this poo poo is genius
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Jun 3, 2019 19:37
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Putting this up open source would be the origin story for the next generation of speedtree. Speedgun with geolocated based gun chemistry.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:37
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You fucks had good ideas, you just needed to settle on ONE of the good ideas. 
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Jun 3, 2019 19:38
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Wait... Stop... Its happening again. It keeps happening
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Jun 3, 2019 19:38
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You should have just put, like, a quarter of these systems into the game and had the game pretend all these other complex systems existed and were running in the background.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:39
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Just a reminder that this guy (Frankie) is making his own absurdly cool rpg, so you have that to look forward to.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:40
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FrankieSmileShow posted:Bhroom pushed for an equally absurd idea for deciding the gun material result (edit: that chef mentioned above, I just noticed!), that is also currently in the game and working fine as far as I know: that all of the gun materials are actually elements that fit onto a periodic table of elements, with atomic numbers etc (each material having an actual real world element counterpart, and a few materials ARE a real world element like Gold, Iron etc, and those have their proper place on that table) and the fusions result actually use logic inspired of chemistry, based on atom orbitals and whatever, and that this was supposed to be one of the biggest loving secrets of the game, never to be revealed to players whatsoever, something people were supposed to realize only much later after having made charts of how materials seem to relate to one another, with the few real-world element materials being huge hints about it.  I'm amazed that this is in and working in the game. This is crazy.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:40
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Scarodactyl posted:Just a reminder that this guy (Frankie) is making his own absurdly cool rpg, so you have that to look forward to. is there anyplace that's a good spot to watch for updates for that?
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Jun 3, 2019 19:42
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If anyone wants to play a game like what the core gameplay of Barkley 2 would’ve been, Enter the Gungeon is probably your best bet. It’s a fun game.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:42
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Anonymous Robot posted:If anyone wants to play a game like what the core gameplay of Barkley 2 would’ve been, Enter the Gungeon is probably your best bet. It’s a fun game. I'm gonna re-post my suggestion for CrossCode, it's an action RPG with twin stick shooting and melee, fully hand-crafted world, quests, etc. On PC and coming to Switch soon
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Jun 3, 2019 19:47
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Mantis42 posted:You should have just put, like, a quarter of these systems into the game and had the game pretend all these other complex systems existed and were running in the background. I think it would be kind of a funny troll if the game was just a fairly simplistic zelda-like ARPG that had a bunch of forced tutorials explaining these insane and complex systems that don't actually exist in the game
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Jun 3, 2019 19:49
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Hold on guys wait. What if this is just the backers from the level where you could pose as ToG in an interview making poo poo up.
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Jun 3, 2019 20:01
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everythingWasBees posted:is there anyplace that's a good spot to watch for updates for that? Always worth popping into one of his twitch streams too (he's FrankiePixelShow on twitch).
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Jun 3, 2019 20:01
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Pirate Jet posted:Hold on guys wait. What if this is just the backers from the level where you could pose as ToG in an interview making poo poo up. Haha, I forgot about that. Time to fess up, did that ever actually happen?
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Jun 3, 2019 20:05
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Hello Agent Barkley I'll see you again in 25 years
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Jun 3, 2019 20:08
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Sorry about your mom.
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Jun 3, 2019 20:10
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Malcolm Excellent posted:Hello Agent Barkley This is the basketball, and this is the hoop Shut up, and jam
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Jun 3, 2019 20:12
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I need more Duergar character dialogue/lore so I can recycle them as D&D characters.
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Jun 3, 2019 20:19
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Wanna see these systems pared down to just a Chao Garden except with guns
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Jun 3, 2019 20:21
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I need more Duergar character dialogue/lore so I can recycle them as D&D characters. I had an npc whose nickname was "The Bastard Of Muscles" in one of my star wars campaigns. 
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Jun 3, 2019 20:21
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Gun's geolocation sounds incredible
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Jun 3, 2019 20:29
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 13:22 |
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Here is a screenshot of the periodic table of gun materials that Bhroom made. We came up with most of these materials together, but he figured out how to arrange them, and this all worked, as absurd as it was. There was another chart where you could select two materials and it showed you the result. The idea was to have the resulting materials of a fusion seem random to the player at first, but every material combination always having the same result meant people could "map" how the combinations work, and eventually maybe actually realize the full horror of what we made, this table above here. Some of these gun materials I later worked on to make their shots have more personality, and that was a lot of fun. The Klispin (I think we renamed it Marble?) gun fired spooky ghosts that hunted down enemies and moved through them (basically the wraithverge weapon from Hexen), the pinata gun fired candy, the yggdrasil gun left behind a trail of nature, grass and flowers growing, the crystal gun shots exploded in random shrapnel, while the diamond gun exploded in shrapnel flying in specific angular directions, the fungus gun fired floating spores that spawned mushrooms when it hit the ground, the imaginary guns were all Hoopz just holding nothing in his hands, firing invisible hitscan bullets and making gun sounds with his mouth, and was supposed to be more powerful the more innocent Hoopz was (basically the less time passed I think the stronger it would get? Im not sure we ever implemented that idea though!).
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Jun 3, 2019 20:46
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