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lexical fluidity
May 10, 2019
Blowing the dust off this thread.

I used to post way back in another iteration of this thread when The Genre That Shall Not Be Named was the main discourse. Now I've upgraded to full-length novels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJ16PPB Thanks to this thread's Hijinks Ensue for their editing (They actually edited it twice over the span of two years). It's got sex robots, cyborg-on-human violence a la Robocop, and lots of killing the rich. Still waiting on the paperback to go through Amazon's review.



Now to get to work on the five planned sequels :stonklol:

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LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


lexical fluidity posted:

Blowing the dust off this thread.

I used to post way back in another iteration of this thread when The Genre That Shall Not Be Named was the main discourse. Now I've upgraded to full-length novels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RJ16PPB Thanks to this thread's Hijinks Ensue for their editing (They actually edited it twice over the span of two years). It's got sex robots, cyborg-on-human violence a la Robocop, and lots of killing the rich. Still waiting on the paperback to go through Amazon's review.



Now to get to work on the five planned sequels :stonklol:

Super solid cover. I’ll buy it later today!

lexical fluidity
May 10, 2019

LionArcher posted:

Super solid cover. I’ll buy it later today!

Thanks so much! :tipshat:

If you got anything in need of a better ranking, I can return the favor.

Daric
Dec 23, 2007

Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.
Where can I find a cover design template that's trustworthy? I'm working on a book, know that I want to self-pub eventually, and my girlfriend is an artist that will do the cover for me. I just need to find a template for her to work within.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Daric posted:

Where can I find a cover design template that's trustworthy?

Who hurt you

KrunkMcGrunk
Jul 2, 2007

Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Daric posted:

Where can I find a cover design template that's trustworthy? I'm working on a book, know that I want to self-pub eventually, and my girlfriend is an artist that will do the cover for me. I just need to find a template for her to work within.

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/cover-templates

Daric
Dec 23, 2007

Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.
Awesome, thank you very much!

Heathbourne
Jun 3, 2019
Virgin account, for the same reasons others have pointed out previously. Plus it's nice to help Lowtax.

drat, I wish I'd have discovered this thread earlier. All of you people seem to know your way around this business, and I really could have done with some of the tips just on the past two pages. For starters, I'd have written the next book in the series and published everything simultaneously, not as they are actually finished.

So I did a thing, and I've been running ads in some of the usual places. The sad part is, I'm not selling much at all. And I think the reason is that I absolutely suck at writing short blurbs. Or maybe my cover is too boring? I've got thousands of impressions on my ads, and hundreds of clicks have gone through to the ebook or paperback page (different blurbs on both), but my actual conversion rate for people who click is way below 1%. My day job is not in sales, though, and maybe that's what I need here?

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Heathbourne posted:

Virgin account, for the same reasons others have pointed out previously. Plus it's nice to help Lowtax.

drat, I wish I'd have discovered this thread earlier. All of you people seem to know your way around this business, and I really could have done with some of the tips just on the past two pages. For starters, I'd have written the next book in the series and published everything simultaneously, not as they are actually finished.

So I did a thing, and I've been running ads in some of the usual places. The sad part is, I'm not selling much at all. And I think the reason is that I absolutely suck at writing short blurbs. Or maybe my cover is too boring? I've got thousands of impressions on my ads, and hundreds of clicks have gone through to the ebook or paperback page (different blurbs on both), but my actual conversion rate for people who click is way below 1%. My day job is not in sales, though, and maybe that's what I need here?

Your cover is garbage tier. If you came across a book with a cover like it, would you click on that listing?

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

I agree that the cover is pretty bad. The title also doesn't really work; it suggests pretty tepid topical satire, and the blurb isn't doing a great job at showing me whether that satire might have teeth, or even to what degree the novel is satire vs. just action with jokes. It's pretty bland, and the rest of the package tilts it to "not worth $4 to see what this is."

Heathbourne
Jun 3, 2019
I sort of agree on the cover – on the other hand, I do have heaps of books that I've bought with similar designs standing around. So I guess I would click on that listing :v:

As for the title, that's yet another problem. It started out as satire, but ended up going in a wildly different direction. The blurb is what I thought would explain better what it is – hoping to reach a "bored and might like reading a slightly off kilter clancyesque bromance novel" audience – but I can't really get anything to stick. And it doesn't help that Amazon takes days to update a description, so I can't just run with something during a marketing push, see how it goes, and then tweak it.

I was considering putting it up for free for a week, just so people can pick it up and hopefully read it and leave a review; do you have any experience trying that out?

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Heathbourne posted:

The blurb is what I thought would explain better what it is – hoping to reach a "bored and might like reading a slightly off kilter clancyesque bromance novel" audience –
Hello, I'm that audience.

Yeah see this is the thing. Based on your blurb, I'd read it.

Based on the cover and title, I'd never get to the blurb.

Bardeh
Dec 2, 2004

Fun Shoe

Heathbourne posted:

I sort of agree on the cover – on the other hand, I do have heaps of books that I've bought with similar designs standing around. So I guess I would click on that listing :v:

As for the title, that's yet another problem. It started out as satire, but ended up going in a wildly different direction. The blurb is what I thought would explain better what it is – hoping to reach a "bored and might like reading a slightly off kilter clancyesque bromance novel" audience – but I can't really get anything to stick. And it doesn't help that Amazon takes days to update a description, so I can't just run with something during a marketing push, see how it goes, and then tweak it.

I was considering putting it up for free for a week, just so people can pick it up and hopefully read it and leave a review; do you have any experience trying that out?

Delist the book entirely. Change the cover, title, and blurb. Pay someone good to make an actual cover. Take some time to think of a better, punchier title. Do the blurb from scratch. Then relist on Amazon with an actual launch strategy. Also, if you're paying for ads now, STOP. It's a waste of money. Your cover means it will never, ever be worth it.

This is the first thing someone clicking the Look Inside will read:



I like it! It's good - and it's also pretty silly. That's not a bad thing at all, but your cover should be a bit silly too. If you're paying for ads then you can afford to commission someone to make you some art. There are probably a bunch of talented goons who could do it - make a thread in CC or the SA Mart. It doesn't need to be massively detailed and costly. How about a Charlie's Angels style sillhouette with two big ol' muscly dudes standing back to back brandishing their gavels? Give it a bright, colourful background, a cool font, and you got yourself a cover.

Bardeh fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jun 4, 2019

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008

Ramrod XTreme
Do everything Bardeh just said. Look further back in this thread to see all the Hard Luck Hank stuff, because I think your cover should be a similar illustrated over the top kind.

I definitely cringed when I saw the title, just like all the "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS SJW Feminist!" poo poo on Youtube.

Heathbourne
Jun 3, 2019
Thanks guys, this was exactly the kind of helpful advice I had my fingers crossed for!

Bardeh posted:

How about a Charlie's Angels style sillhouette with two big ol' muscly dudes standing back to back brandishing their gavels? Give it a bright, colourful background, a cool font, and you got yourself a cover.

I actually tried commissioning pretty much exactly this(!) but was put off by the quotes I got. I get that it costs money to make money, but $500 was the best price out of the three talented people I checked with. For what's effectively my first foray into the world of self-publishing, and thus something of an experiment to start things off, that was way above what I was prepared to pay. Hence, sucky cover.

As for your other advice, I'm taking it to heart! I've stopped all ads with running costs, but is there any downside to keeping it listed while I figure out the rest of it – like cover, blurb, perhaps even title? Or for that matter, while I punch out the next book set in this universe?

Jalumibnkrayal posted:

I definitely cringed when I saw the title, just like all the "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS SJW Feminist!" poo poo on Youtube.

Yeah I'm pretty sure that crowd would hate most of what's on the inside of this book. Or maybe not, they might love it. There's a whole lot of male masculinity going on, after all.

Steely Dad
Jul 29, 2006




For what it's worth, I think you've used the word "fleeting" incorrectly here. It means "lasting only a brief time."

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Yeah, you're looking for "flowing."

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Heathbourne posted:

I actually tried commissioning pretty much exactly this(!) but was put off by the quotes I got. I get that it costs money to make money, but $500 was the best price out of the three talented people I checked with. For what's effectively my first foray into the world of self-publishing, and thus something of an experiment to start things off, that was way above what I was prepared to pay. Hence, sucky cover.

I get not wanting to outlay cash on something that may not prove successful, but putting out a book with a self-made cover that looks like a high school textbook guarantees it won't be successful, and you've already invested a lot of your own time in writing this. You can still get a decent cover from some places for much less than $500. I was in the same position as you for my first book, I used the $85 option here for my whole first series and was perfectly happy with the results and my books sold great - https://www.alchemybookcovers.com/clients.

Heathbourne posted:

I was considering putting it up for free for a week, just so people can pick it up and hopefully read it and leave a review; do you have any experience trying that out?

Yes. Garnering reviews is very important when you're starting out. Once you've relaunched with a new cover, definitely do this, and advertise it as free on the various newsletter listings - https://www.readersintheknow.com/list-of-book-promotion-sites. It's tedious and time-consuming, but rack up all the free-to-advertise ones you can, and be more cautious about the ones that want money; a lot of them do not give worthwhile ROI. Robin Reads is still decent, other people might recommend others. The real Holy Grail is Bookbub, but you've no chance of getting one until you rack up a decent amount of reviews.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
Grab a cheapo pre-made cover from https://goonwrite.com/ any one of them will be infinitely better than your current one. Maybe one of the abstract ones.

Heathbourne
Jun 3, 2019

Dadliest Worrier posted:

For what it's worth, I think you've used the word "fleeting" incorrectly here. It means "lasting only a brief time."

Antivehicular posted:

Yeah, you're looking for "flowing."

poo poo, you're right. I'm not sure how that happened. Or how that was allowed to remain.

freebooter posted:

I get not wanting to outlay cash on something that may not prove successful, but putting out a book with a self-made cover that looks like a high school textbook guarantees it won't be successful, and you've already invested a lot of your own time in writing this. You can still get a decent cover from some places for much less than $500. I was in the same position as you for my first book, I used the $85 option here for my whole first series and was perfectly happy with the results and my books sold great - https://www.alchemybookcovers.com/clients.

Yes. Garnering reviews is very important when you're starting out. Once you've relaunched with a new cover, definitely do this, and advertise it as free on the various newsletter listings - https://www.readersintheknow.com/list-of-book-promotion-sites. It's tedious and time-consuming, but rack up all the free-to-advertise ones you can, and be more cautious about the ones that want money; a lot of them do not give worthwhile ROI. Robin Reads is still decent, other people might recommend others. The real Holy Grail is Bookbub, but you've no chance of getting one until you rack up a decent amount of reviews.

Thanks – you make great points. I'll be checking out those links!

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

freebooter posted:

I get not wanting to outlay cash on something that may not prove successful, but putting out a book with a self-made cover that looks like a high school textbook guarantees it won't be successful, and you've already invested a lot of your own time in writing this.

100% agreed on this.

From the OP, IMO the most important part of the whole thing (and possibly the only part not hilariously out of date):



You can make money in self-pub, but the era of "poo poo some stuff out and it'll sell no matter what" ended years ago. Put the effort into your presentation and release marketing / day-one reviews or you have no chance.

Icon-Cat
Aug 18, 2005

Meow!
On the note of covers, the stock photo models from my more recent efforts are beginning to follow me around.

Since putting out one project in February 2018, I've seen the cover model turn up in two entirely different online ads, then a print poster I saw out in Coney Island, then two news articles. I collect these encounters in a Twitter thread here: twitter.com/AdamBertocci/status/1033896409907507201

But it's not just her. A shot from the yellow-background-red-dress shoot from my newest cover (scroll down for exciting freebie) got used in a clickbait online ad I got served… and last month I bought a picture for an upcoming project, and the very next day saw a picture from the same dang shoot in an article about creepy guys. :eek:


Anyhoo, yes, I've put out another one of my little stories. It's free through Sunday, June 16.



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07SWTG142/

It’s the night before the SAT and book-smart Maura is hitting the… well, books. But when her carefree Canadian cousin rolls into town unannounced, her plan goes out the window for one crazy night of unsupervised parties, teenage hijinks and occasional car theft.

All Maura wants is to get home to her flash cards; all Laura does is make a mess. But before the night is over, they’ll have to teach other a thing or two—and pass the kind of test you can’t cram for.

Award-winning writer and filmmaker Adam Bertocci has been praised by Entertainment Weekly, USA Today, The New Republic, GQ, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Back Stage, Broadway World, E!, Maxim, IGN, Wired, Film Threat and more. He also did very well on standardized tests.

LionArcher
Mar 29, 2010


Icon-Cat posted:

On the note of covers, the stock photo models from my more recent efforts are beginning to follow me around.

Since putting out one project in February 2018, I've seen the cover model turn up in two entirely different online ads, then a print poster I saw out in Coney Island, then two news articles. I collect these encounters in a Twitter thread here: twitter.com/AdamBertocci/status/1033896409907507201

But it's not just her. A shot from the yellow-background-red-dress shoot from my newest cover (scroll down for exciting freebie) got used in a clickbait online ad I got served… and last month I bought a picture for an upcoming project, and the very next day saw a picture from the same dang shoot in an article about creepy guys. :eek:


Anyhoo, yes, I've put out another one of my little stories. It's free through Sunday, June 16.



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07SWTG142/

It’s the night before the SAT and book-smart Maura is hitting the… well, books. But when her carefree Canadian cousin rolls into town unannounced, her plan goes out the window for one crazy night of unsupervised parties, teenage hijinks and occasional car theft.

All Maura wants is to get home to her flash cards; all Laura does is make a mess. But before the night is over, they’ll have to teach other a thing or two—and pass the kind of test you can’t cram for.

Award-winning writer and filmmaker Adam Bertocci has been praised by Entertainment Weekly, USA Today, The New Republic, GQ, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Back Stage, Broadway World, E!, Maxim, IGN, Wired, Film Threat and more. He also did very well on standardized tests.

That’s true of most popular stock photo models. Same five dudes are on so many covers. I find it funny when I see cheap thrillers at Barnes and Nobel that use the same stock photos that I have too. What’s funnier is that a lot of indie thrillers put in more work making the covers these days than even the cheap trade paperbacks... this business really will hit maturity in about three years. We’re still at “you can’t make much money doing it” and “it used to be easy, now it’s too hard and there are so many scammers”, depending on who you talk to.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

LionArcher posted:

That’s true of most popular stock photo models. Same five dudes are on so many covers. I find it funny when I see cheap thrillers at Barnes and Nobel that use the same stock photos that I have too.

It blew my mind when I was in an airport newspaper/book shop and realized I recognized the cover photos for some of the books. :psyduck:

Hijinks Ensue
Jul 24, 2007
Once when I was at a local bookstore, I looked at the indie author shelves and saw that an author had used the first font, text color, and photo that the CreateSpace cover template barfed out at them. Still not sure if the author was stingy or really unclear about the process.

WhoopieCat
Sep 15, 2018

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019




Great covers! Both are very nice.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Cover feedback please - anything I should ask to be tweaked? (Sorry, Imgur sucks these days, you have to click on it to see the whole thing). It's a 1914-set horror/adventure novel which I originally intended to be in the style of an Indiana Jones/Brendan Fraser's The Mummy romp, but which ended up pretty heavily leaning into horror, so the Gothic tone is appropriate.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


I love everything but the train. Too clean. Also not that interesting visually.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

freebooter posted:

Cover feedback please - anything I should ask to be tweaked? (Sorry, Imgur sucks these days, you have to click on it to see the whole thing). It's a 1914-set horror/adventure novel which I originally intended to be in the style of an Indiana Jones/Brendan Fraser's The Mummy romp, but which ended up pretty heavily leaning into horror, so the Gothic tone is appropriate.



Seems good! Do you have a version without the blood splatter for comparison? It's not bad or offensive or anything, but I wonder if it just makes the image a little... too busy.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

freebooter posted:

Cover feedback please - anything I should ask to be tweaked? (Sorry, Imgur sucks these days, you have to click on it to see the whole thing). It's a 1914-set horror/adventure novel which I originally intended to be in the style of an Indiana Jones/Brendan Fraser's The Mummy romp, but which ended up pretty heavily leaning into horror, so the Gothic tone is appropriate.



I think it's a great cover that tells you exactly what you're getting into. However, if you're looking for feedback outside of that, 9 times out of 10 this thing is going to be seen as a thumbnail, and as a thumbnail everything gets mushed together to the point where it's difficult to understand what you're looking at. I'd try zooming in to just the locomotive/moon/bats, and/or increasing the contrast a bit or just bumping up the midtones of the sky, or as stated above, reduce some of the grunge that's cluttering it up a bit. Or, if you don't like the idea of zooming in, maybe bump up the size of the bats a bit and add one or two closer to the foreground—as a thumbnail their silhouette doesn't read as batty as would be ideal, they just look like floating blobs.

Also that book sounds rad, post the link when it's up.

divabot
Jun 17, 2015

A polite little mouse!

feedmyleg posted:

I think it's a great cover that tells you exactly what you're getting into. However, if you're looking for feedback outside of that, 9 times out of 10 this thing is going to be seen as a thumbnail, and as a thumbnail everything gets mushed together to the point where it's difficult to understand what you're looking at.

yeah, text is just the word "VAMPIRE" and some unreadable small print

which may work actually

tho maybe bold your name if you keep it at that stage

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Cheers for the feedback, I'll put it to the cover artist. I always find the cover to be the most stressful part, I suppose because it's the only time you have to relinquish control and collaborate with somebody else.


feedmyleg posted:

Also that book sounds rad, post the link when it's up.

Feel free to PM me if you or anyone else wants an ARC - it's basically done, I just have to put it into Amazon formatting, which I'll finish this weekend. I'm keen to release it before Friday since I'm going to Europe for a month.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

New versions, zoomed in a bit and both with/without the blood splatter overlay. I think I prefer minus the blood.



I also forgot about that other thing that Matters As Much As Your Book and have spent the last few hours tweaking my dozen different blurb drafts and now I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. How's this:

Paris, 1914. American adventurer Sam Carter has deserted the French Foreign Legion and seeks to flee the country. Taking passage aboard the luxurious Orient Express, he meets Lucas Avery, a mysterious Englishman who claims to be a banker.

As the luxury train departs Paris for the far snows of Eastern Europe, Carter and Avery are about to discover that another passenger carries a secret even more dangerous than their own. Through fire and darkness, through blood and ice, the Orient Express is bearing an ancient evil across the continent - and not all of her ticket-holders will live to see Constantinople...

Lex Neville
Apr 15, 2009
Either "leave <place>" or "depart from <place>", me thinks. I also think you could drop "luxury" as that's stated in the previous sentence. Second "through" might also be redundant, depending on taste. Maybe "its" instead of "her"? Lastly, I think "is bearing" is a little clunky.

Note: I'm not a self-publishing goon and not at all familiar with the target audience of such works, so I have no clue what makes for a good blurb. I think it looks alright. Also, agreed, no blood.

Lex Neville fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jun 24, 2019

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

freebooter posted:

New versions, zoomed in a bit and both with/without the blood splatter overlay. I think I prefer minus the blood.



I also forgot about that other thing that Matters As Much As Your Book and have spent the last few hours tweaking my dozen different blurb drafts and now I don't even know what I'm looking at anymore. How's this:

Yeah, I'd go with the cleaner version. Less busy.

As for the blurb:


quote:

Paris, 1914. American adventurer Sam Carter has deserted the French Foreign Legion and seeks to flee the country.

Well, if I read "protagonist flees after doing something bad" in the blurb I'd like to see whatever extenuating circumstances, if there are any, right there and then. So, not "flees after committing a murder", but "after committing a murder in self-defense". And, at least that's my reaction, FFL of the day is known mainly for taking in murderers and rapists and so forth with no questions asked, so if he does something bad enough that he needs to desert... what the gently caress did he do, slaughter an orphanage?

quote:

Taking passage aboard the luxurious Orient Express, he meets Lucas Avery, a mysterious Englishman who claims to be a banker.

Is this the second protagonist and/or love interest? If no, the hook about the main conflict needs to be introduced before the introduction of some secondary character. If yes, I'd add something to the effect of "and they quickly bond".

[quote]As the luxury train departs Paris for the far snows of Eastern Europe, Carter and Avery are about to discover that another passenger carries a secret even more dangerous than their own. Through fire and darkness, through blood and ice, the Orient Express is bearing an ancient evil across the continent - and not all of her ticket-holders will live to see Constantinople.../quote]

The ancient evil's ticket holders, right? Way to spoil the villain identity in the blurb, son.

I'd change that to "the ticket holders".

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

I originally had "absconded from the French Foreign legion and seeks to flee the country before being arrested for desertion," but cut the last bit because it felt redundant. "Ticketholder" is just to avoid saying "passenger" twice but it does feel clunky.

How about this variant:

Paris, 1914. The luxurious Orient Express departs the Gare d'Lest on a drizzly winter's evening. Among her passengers are the American adventurer Sam Carter, the English diplomat Lucas Avery, and the usual mix of European aristocracy. None of them expects anything more troubling over the next three days and three thousand miles than an overindulgence in fine cuisine.

But one of their fellow passengers has a dark secret. An ancient evil is being borne across the continent by the Orient Express - and not every ticket holder will live to see Constantinople...

sammyv
Nov 8, 2010
I preferred the first one. I think it tells me more about the type of book I'm getting. I'm always up for some fire and darkness. The only thing that jumped out to me was the claiming to be a banker thing. I get that the dude has some mysterious identity, but that felt like a bit of an odd thing to be so specific about.

Love the cover, but yeah, no blood is better. And hey, well done on writing a goddamn novel dude!

Lex Neville
Apr 15, 2009
I think the first one's better too, but just in case you're sticking with the second: Gare d'Lest is not a station (or French, for that matter) ;)

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

sammyv posted:

I preferred the first one. I think it tells me more about the type of book I'm getting. I'm always up for some fire and darkness. The only thing that jumped out to me was the claiming to be a banker thing. I get that the dude has some mysterious identity, but that felt like a bit of an odd thing to be so specific about.

Love the cover, but yeah, no blood is better. And hey, well done on writing a goddamn novel dude!

OK, I'll tweak the first one a bit more and go with some variant of that. And thank you! I've had some pretty good success with a mammoth zombie series I put out, but that was something I'd worked on for years and years, and when the first book is successful you already know the next ones will be fine. Putting out something completely new that I only just wrote in this past year is an oddly new experience.

Lex Neville posted:

I think the first one's better too, but just in case you're sticking with the second: Gare d'Lest is not a station (or French, for that matter) ;)

Haha, typo - though you did make me doublecheck the manuscript to make sure I got it right in the actual book.

On another note I'm never again writing a book with multiple European characters across multiple European countries, it makes spellchecking a bitch.

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freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Just snagged a Bookbub (international-only) for July 7 for my 3000-word box set which last Bookbubbed on Christmas to great effect. I was going to launch Vampire this week before going on a trip to Europe but now I'm wondering if I'd be better off waiting...? I have no clue how the algorithms work and whether I'd be better off launching before, same day as, or just after.

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