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Yeah. While Toho approved the design, that was only because they couldn't offer more than minor suggestions without delaying poo poo for over a year. And the dynamic dumbasses STILL bitched about it. The designer, however, was against such a radical change from the start, and he absolutely did the best he could with what he was told to do. I have nothing but respect for him, and the design he made wasn't bad. It wouldn't even be THAT bad a Godzilla- if it had any of Godzilla's spirit or character. Which, of course, Zilla demonstrably did not. That's what the cartoon was good for
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Jun 9, 2019 21:54
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McSpanky posted:Around page 170 is when the earliest trip reports and direct movie discussion starts coming up. Kickass, thanks DeimosRising posted:Going tomorrow and very interested to hear your thoughts I'm still sorting through my thoughts, but I feel like it could've been better. Specifically, it could've been much tighter. There are a lot of things where it feels like you can identify them as pointed, and serving greater ideas, but they don't seem to really fit into the movie as an aesthetic unit. Does that make sense? Scattered thoughts: - The quips were egregious. The line "oh my god" "zilla..." was so bad in the trailer that I thought it had been cut together for that. But no, it happens just like that in the movie. - There were some really nice shots, but it felt inferior compared to the previous movie. Some of this could be attributed to the difference in how the monsters are presented — with reverence in 2014 but more personable (dunno if that's quite the right word) here — but it's still a lack. When I think back to some of my favourite scenes of the first movie, like the sudden silence as godzilla('s foot) enters the frame in the airport, there's nothing like that here. - Related to the personability, I was not a fan of the face-on reaction close ups of Godzilla. - There is an association of the good guys with water and the villains with flame. I like that but my mind goes to something like Green Grass Running Water and KotM seems completely inadequate. In a movie about climate change and ecological catastrophe, where the good guys are associated with water, it really feels like they just scratched the surface with what they could do. - Furthermore, I feel like the family-themed stuff wasn't as crisp as last movie, and could've been more refined. I wouldn't even be sad if it was done away with entirely, but that's a different movie. It could've worked better in this movie than it did. I dunno. Maybe I'll feel differently after catching up on this thread.
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Jun 9, 2019 22:53
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Hand Knit posted:- There is an association of the good guys with water and the villains with flame. I like that but my mind goes to something like Green Grass Running Water and KotM seems completely inadequate. In a movie about climate change and ecological catastrophe, where the good guys are associated with water, it really feels like they just scratched the surface with what they could do. It's weirder than that. The fire imagery is associated with Rodan. Ghidorah, who begins entombed in ice and who creates/embodies a hurricane/storm cloud, is also associated with water. The difference is that antarctic ice and rain water mean that Ghidorah is associated with fresh water whereas Godzilla is associated with ocean water. The distinction may seems slight, but the implication seems to be that Ghidorah does not merely represent the alien post-climate change world, but also cultivation, development and all the means by which humankind dominated the planet prior toward and leading up to industrialization and climate change. And then you have Godzilla, who's victory let to the massive reforestation of previously inhabited cities. This is somewhat confounded by the fact that Godzilla apparently had his own civilization at one time. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 9, 2019 23:22
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Now you've got me thinking what Thomas King would do if he wrote a Godzilla screenplay.
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Jun 9, 2019 23:28
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Arcsquad12 posted:Now you've got me thinking what Thomas King would do if he wrote a Godzilla screenplay. Emma's plan was very Coyote to start, though I'm sure a Thomas King Godzilla would somehow manage to be a Western. Schwarzwald posted:It's somewhat weirder than that. The fire imagery is associated with Rodan. Ghidorah, who begins entombed in ice and who creates/embodies a hurricane, is also associated with water. I'm not sure that I want to go along with that. Ghidorah is contained/constrained by ice in a way quite unlike how it and Rodan sit in the fire, how Godzilla moves through the water, or Mothra coccoons under the waterfall. Ghidorah's storm also, visually at least, seems to be much more defined by wind and lightning. What more this could mean, I don't really know.
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Jun 10, 2019 01:02
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Lol, from that 'Zilla article:loving Lmao posted:there was Godzilla standing there with a sign around his neck that said, ‘Mr. Emmerich, I’m ready for your shooting call’ The stunned director joked that Godzilla never got that call.
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Jun 10, 2019 01:11
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All the other kaiju, in their natural states, resemble existing creatures and create natural phenomena in their wake. Sometimes they're destructive to humans like Godzilla's landfall at Hawaii creating a tsunami or Rodan's awakening triggering a volcanic eruption, but they're still fundamentally representative of the natural order of life and planet. And like even the natural order of extreme weather and geologic events, they only harm people when people happen to be in their way. But everything about Ghidorah is unnatural, a pointedly destructive force even without considering its alien origins. It resembles no living or extinct creature; it was trapped in the Antarctic ice instead of lying in a state of hibernation or torpor in a home environment; its mere existence creates storms of impossible power -- Monarch reported a category six hurricane surrounding Ghidorah as it headed for the East Coast. It appeared to draw power from the volcano to broadcast its alpha signal worldwide, absorbed electricity from a power main and drained energy from Godzilla by biting him, making it some sort of energy vampire. If the other kaiju are avatars of nature writ large, and our interactions with them lessons about learning to live in harmony with nature lest we tempt fate in overstepping our bounds, then Ghidorah is an avatar of the overstepped boundary itself. It is a "living extinction event", the lifeless future of and by a humanity that refuses to change.
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Jun 10, 2019 02:29
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I have seen KOTM five times now, and have gradually won the victory over myself. The movie is good, actually.
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Jun 10, 2019 02:36
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I watched Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla tonight and whoever said this is a live action anime movie was on the money. I quite enjoyed it, despite its flaws. Akane is a decent lead and I got a good laugh out of the Hideki Matsui cameo. The movie didn't take itself so seriously and I appreciated how it was willing to get silly by basically turning Kiryu into the Megazord at times so it could pull off some crazy super robot stunts. The music was really good and heroic as well, and I thought it was neat how War of the Gargantuas is also apparently in continuity with this movie. Godzilla himself was a big rear end in a top hat in this film. He's not divine judgement like in GMK or retribution for the sins of Japan. This Godzilla is just a shithead looking to pick a fight. I liked the suit design, but it definitely felt like the actor was struggling to move in it. I know Godzilla is supposed to be invincible to conventional weaponry but the suit seemed so constrictive at times that even when he was getting pummeled with missiles he didn't move an inch, as if the actor inside couldn't feel anything and didn't react in the slightest. It reminded me of a Cardassian from Star Trek with the neck ridges. I watched the dubbed version and it was okay. The main leads all had good voice acting, but that went out the window for Sara and the other children. Sara's dubbing was just awful, and I didn't care much for her relationship with Akane. If they wanted to make it humorous that Akane was ignoring Professor Yahara to talk with Sara, they failed on that part. It's a shame too, because while Akane and Sara had nothing between them, Sara and her dad were a fun duo. Sara with anyone else was pointless and miserable and trite. Definitely the child character in an anime story who has to give the protagonist pathos by being all innocent. Speaking of anime, they did manage to slip in some tried and true "scream at the heavens" when Akane went full Megazord pilot and controlled Kiryu manually. I also liked Kiryu trying to do a Fist of the North Star and walk through a building. Really good miniatures work, and a great final battle. I liked this one a good bit, and I'll try to watch Tokyo SOS later this week.
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Jun 10, 2019 02:47
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For Final Wars they actually innovated some and had a Godzilla suit that was much more flexible than ones in the past. Sadly we only got the one movie with it.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:00
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HannibalBarca posted:I have seen KOTM five times now, and have gradually won the victory over myself. The movie is good, actually. Don't get corn-cobbed by a bad movie
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Jun 10, 2019 03:00
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McSpanky posted:If the other kaiju are avatars of nature writ large, and our interactions with them lessons about learning to live in harmony with nature lest we tempt fate in overstepping our bounds, then Ghidorah is an avatar of the overstepped boundary itself. It is a "living extinction event", the lifeless future of and by a humanity that refuses to change. It is worth noticing that Ghidorah is released from a collapsing Arctic ice shelf.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:02
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Antarctic, but yes. SMG's regular point that aliens are a metaphor for the future seems to be relevant here. Much like how old-school Ghidorah was a creation of literal time-travelling aliens who were conveniently human-like, Legendary Ghidorah is an alien metaphor for the potential destruction of future Earth by ourselves. The part where his first incarnation blew up the Venusians, a planet rendered uninhabitable primarily by a runaway greenhouse effect, seems especially pointed in this light.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:08
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They only found Ghidorah recently due to the ice pack melting, so yeah you're right.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:08
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Oh right, yes, the upside down Arctic.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:13
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After viewing the movie a second time my opinion's pretty much the same- flawed but man, when it works. I'll even say that the problems with the "human characters" really boil down to just the protagonist; at some point you feel someone went through the script and said "we need to make this guy more protagonist-y" and wrote in him having all the ideas, because the protagonist has to be Active, dammit, not realizing that Godzilla movies are pretty much always ensemble pieces. Like everyone else, I like. I really don't mind Bradley Whitford's character being kinda snarky, I think he delivers it well and still comes off as a believable person.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:23
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Eh, I don't mind that Monarch's brain trust are basically a bunch of weird nerds of various stripes. I figured you have to be weird to work there. (Or you don't have to, but it helps!) The giant Osprey-carrying stealth bomber mothership was a bit silly but still pretty cool.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:48
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Hand Knit posted:Oh right, yes, the upside down Arctic. It really fits with him being Satan that he comes from the bottom of the Earth.
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Jun 10, 2019 03:49
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The Golden Gael posted:It really fits with him being Satan that he comes from the bottom of the Earth. Entombed in ice. Multiple heads. Strong winds...
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Jun 10, 2019 04:01
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when the girl first enters boston there is an overhead shot of her crossing a hilltop smothered in an invasive vine
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Jun 10, 2019 04:09
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How many Godzilla suits were made? I know that some of them spanned several films and were basically falling apart, but I'm watching Ghidorah right now and Godzilla just showed up and he's angry because Rodan's flying around but his eyes are so fogged up it looks like he has cataracts. lol
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Jun 10, 2019 04:19
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Maxwell Lord posted:After viewing the movie a second time my opinion's pretty much the same- flawed but man, when it works. I'll even say that the problems with the "human characters" really boil down to just the protagonist; at some point you feel someone went through the script and said "we need to make this guy more protagonist-y" and wrote in him having all the ideas, because the protagonist has to be Active, dammit, not realizing that Godzilla movies are pretty much always ensemble pieces. Yeah, that’s true. “We need the hero to do something dynamic here! What if the back door won’t open for some random reason and he’s the only one who can run to the back of the ship to open the door for the helicopter to land? It’ll be like Avengers and Star Trek! Perfect! Who doesn’t love mechanical maintenance action scenes?!”
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Jun 10, 2019 04:25
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s.i.r.e. posted:How many Godzilla suits were made? I know that some of them spanned several films and were basically falling apart, but I'm watching Ghidorah right now and Godzilla just showed up and he's angry because Rodan's flying around but his eyes are so fogged up it looks like he has cataracts. lol Wikizilla has 25 different pages for every design, but that includes the two Legendary designs and stuff like that Snickers commercial so its probably around 20 suits for the Japanese films. https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Category:Designs e: It's 17, with Shin not using the suit they made. Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 04:29
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Violator posted:Yeah, that’s true. “We need the hero to do something dynamic here! What if the back door won’t open for some random reason and he’s the only one who can run to the back of the ship to open the door for the helicopter to land? It’ll be like Avengers and Star Trek! Perfect! Who doesn’t love mechanical maintenance action scenes?!” I don’t know if I can take one more instance of the missile launcher failing.
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Jun 10, 2019 04:59
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s.i.r.e. posted:How many Godzilla suits were made? I know that some of them spanned several films and were basically falling apart, but I'm watching Ghidorah right now and Godzilla just showed up and he's angry because Rodan's flying around but his eyes are so fogged up it looks like he has cataracts. lol So Mantis covered the exact question but a note on this Because this movie was made in the same year as 64, they mostly just dusted off the 64 suit with some modifications, including a more expressive, less evil looking head to make Godzilla look a bit friendlier. But being a rush job, it kind of suffers as a result, and of course it isn't nearly as good as the original 64 suit due to it. They further modified it for 65, Monster Zero, and this was the suit that got used in Ultra Q, then went back to Toho, and then they used a hybrid of the body and an older head for the monster Jirass in Ultraman before it finally went to be used in Sea Monster and that one is just Woo boy that one is bad. It looks like a suit that's been used for far too long and boy was it. Not as bad as the way the DAM suit was used from 68 to 72, but it's up there
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Jun 10, 2019 05:01
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Violator posted:Yeah, that’s true. “We need the hero to do something dynamic here! What if the back door won’t open for some random reason and he’s the only one who can run to the back of the ship to open the door for the helicopter to land? It’ll be like Avengers and Star Trek! Perfect! Who doesn’t love mechanical maintenance action scenes?!”  I forgot that whole sequence.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:23
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Maxwell Lord posted:Like everyone else, I like. I really don't mind Bradley Whitford's character being kinda snarky, I think he delivers it well and still comes off as a believable person. Reading the novelization, I realized that Rick actually didn't really quip much at first, but started doing it more and more as the movie went on, until by the end his every line was a quip. Especially after Serizawa's death. This feels like it's the opposite of how it should have gone, with the smartass dropping the act when things get serious, both as a character thing (though I guess you can argue it's a coping mechanism for dealing with tragedy and the potential end of humanity and all that) and for the feel of the movie, since the one-liners don't really fit with the rest of the movie's climax. Plus, it's what ends up sticking with people; as above, I actually forgot how much non-quip dialog he had, because the last third or so of the movie he communicated entirely via quip. But, yeah, besides that, the biggest "human plot" problem is Mark, and a large part of it is how much they had him do that the rest of Monarch should have also been capable of, and how other than a few lines his flaws kind of got glossed over; reading the novel, I found I liked him more because the text and looks into his thoughts and whatnot made clear what an insecure fuckup he is. He felt much more human. Of course, the movie couldn't get into his thoughts the same way, but giving him a bit less focus so his role feels more natural and so the audience doesn't start resenting him for his dominance of the plot would have still helped.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:25
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I know they make sense to use from the not-Helicarrier but knowing their safety record I can't take the Ospreys very seriously. Apparently they aren't THAT bad, but the Marines insisted on using them for everything including situations where they really shouldn't, and also using actual Marines on test flights instead of crash test dummies.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:00
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Calibanibal posted:when the girl first enters boston there is an overhead shot of her crossing a hilltop smothered in an invasive vine Actually it's worse, since it grows almost as fast, but is inedible, oily, poisonous, and has poisonous berries, while kudzu can be used in salads.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:02
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Marines are cheaper than crash test dummies.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:09
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Burkion posted:So Mantis covered the exact question but a note on this I'm taking a detour just with Ebirah just to see the used up suit, maybe Destroy all Monsters is next. lol
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Jun 10, 2019 06:19
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s.i.r.e. posted:I'm taking a detour just with Ebirah just to see the used up suit, maybe Destroy all Monsters is next. lol Ebirah is a lot of fun. It's got an entertaining human plot, Infant Island, Mothra, Godzilla styling on jet fighters, and the line "I know ! Let's wake up Godzilla" as a perfectly reasonable response to how hosed the human characters are.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:27
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I'm really enjoying it so far, the human plot feels very James Bond but with idiots instead of a top secret spy, if that makes sense. I really love the sets in this one. I also like that, so far, the presence of the monsters is really matter-of-fact and they're more concerned with dicking around trying to escape. edit: The surf rock as Godzilla destroys stuff is fantastic, what a fun film, shame that Godzilla looks like he's suffering from leprosy. For the scenes where Godzilla destroys miniatures in the films, where they all one-take situations or where multiple buildings built for retakes? I would assume the miniatures would be a good chunk of the budget so the director going "let's shoot that again" wouldn't be an option. sigher fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 06:30
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What are the problems with space Godzilla
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Jun 10, 2019 07:55
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Depends but usually one takes, yeah. Lots of planning in that. Also I should clarify- DAM got a new suit, that was then used until it was literally falling apart in VS Gigan, 72. Space Godzilla, the movie, has the problem of being too long, too boring, too slow, with lovely fights and dumb human plots worse than usual. Also the crowned king WORSE baby Godzilla design. There's good in it, but you have to suffer through near two hours of garbage to get to it. Space Godzilla the kaiju is great.
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Jun 10, 2019 08:25
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Uncle Wemus posted:What are the problems with space Godzilla Its really boring, kinda long, and all the fights are choreography-less beam-offs
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Jun 10, 2019 08:37
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Violator posted:Yeah, that’s true. “We need the hero to do something dynamic here! What if the back door won’t open for some random reason and he’s the only one who can run to the back of the ship to open the door for the helicopter to land? It’ll be like Avengers and Star Trek! Perfect! Who doesn’t love mechanical maintenance action scenes?!” This reminds me: that one bit of them running through the Argo and slamming into a wall as they hit turbulence felt very Star Trek.
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Jun 10, 2019 13:04
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Reading through that article about 'Zilla, and boy does this segment stand out:Roland Emmerich posted:“We are living in a time when people have seen JURASSIC PARK and THE LOST WORLD and we don’t have the same kind of limitations the Japanese had when they made their GODZILLA. There is an American movie called THE BEAST FROM 20,000 FATHOMS, shot in the early 1950s. This movie was done with stop-animation and it was one of Ray Harryhausen’s best works. Obviously, the Japanese saw that movie and said, oh, we should do something like that, too. But they had no clue how to do stop-animation,” he claimed, seemingly unaware the Toho FX director Eiji Tsuburaya had been well-versed in stop-motion animation and had even used the technique in the original GODZILLA and other Toho films. It was tight schedules and budgets — not a lack of technical knowledge — that prevented Tsuburaya from using stop-motion as much as he may have liked. Jesus what an rear end.
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Jun 10, 2019 13:32
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That whole article is a doozy, good lord. “Roland Emmerich later reversed his position, telling UGO Entertainment he had been the one who advised Sony against doing a sequel to GODZILLA. “It’s so strange because people expected it to be the biggest thing ever, then it only did well. They are disappointed, and you have to defend yourself,” he said. “The movie made $375 million worldwide, and THE PERFECT STORM made $325 million. Also, GODZILLA made a billion dollars in merchandise. Sony Pictures was happy with what they got. They knew that because of the media reception, they couldn’t do a GODZILLA 2. I told them not to do a sequel… because when you have a hit like INDEPENDENCE DAY, people want to see you fall.”
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Jun 10, 2019 13:36
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Godzilla vs Kong delayed?quote:At a conference last week, as reported by Deadline, Warner Bros. Studio chairman Toby Emmerich noted that the studio wants to ensure Godzilla vs. Kong is a big time hit. https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3566316/godzilla-vs-kong-may-pushed-back-release-date-later-march-2020/ quote:As far as franchise fatigue with Legendary’s Godzilla: King of the Monsters tanking, Emmerich said that next year’s monster movie Godzilla vs. Kong “will deliver for fans in the way they were looking for” in the latest Godzilla. “It might come out later in the year, so we can deliver an A+ movie” said Emmerich. https://deadline.com/2019/06/warner-studio-toby-emmerich-peter-roth-dc-netflix-godzilla-vs-kong-kevin-tsujihara-1202629538/ Included both articles so you can see Deadline's snark about BO performance. Argh. Why do I always follow doomed franchises?! It's my understanding that they already filmed GvK so it's not like they can just cancel it at this point at least. Edit: Here's the plot summary: quote:“In a time when monsters walk the Earth, humanity’s fight for its future sets Godzilla and Kong on a collision course that will see the two most powerful forces of nature on the planet collide in a spectacular battle for the ages. As Monarch embarks on a perilous mission into uncharted terrain and unearths clues to the Titans’ origins, a human conspiracy threatens to wipe the creatures, both good and bad, from the face of the earth forever.” So whatever is left of King G is re-made into a new monster to kill the titans and G and K will have to team up to stop it just like folks here speculated. Maybe Vs movies are just hard, but KOTM and KvG really feels like they're using a lot of BvS broad strokes. Violator fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 15:28
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