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Remember when Deus Ex got in trouble for accusing GW of war crimes in a trailer? Simpler times.
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Jun 12, 2019 13:26
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fuf posted:I think you're still missing the point about the slogan. It's not just one more hot model like any other hot model but this time they happen to be trans (this would be mainstreaming). The fact that they are trans is integral to the meaning of the ad, so it's much closer to fetishisation. (And then my bonus argument is that the way they are integral to the ad isn't even coherent in universe.) I disagree, if it was a model with giant breasts and the slogan said "buy our super sized drink" it would be very similar. It's absolutely objectification but it fits in this vision of the future. They pick a model, say that they are hot because they have modified their body in this way, also buy our drink. If it's not coherent in universe then it has no place here but if this is some popular celerity endorsement in universe or something then it's fine for the objectifying capitalist crap that it's meant to be, imo
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Jun 12, 2019 13:26
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Mad Men is literally about sexism, it's ill effects on men and women both, and what it means to "be" someone. Whether or not it condemned sexism enough explicitly in the text, failed regardless due to the amount of people who watched it as a power fantasy, or said anything new and worth saying on the matter was contentious. There's plenty of think pieces if you feel like examining any of those points in more detail. Despite "sexism is bad" being a clear message there are people who got something different out of it or thought it despite this message it wasn't doing enough to justify its existence. Racism was condemned by the text in The Witcher but it cops flak for its cast being too white ("elves are allowed to exist but not people of colour") and having a by the numbers portrayal of gender roles most of the time. Cyberpunk will never do enough to justify or earn that poster. It will do less than it could have and if we're lucky it will do more than most. Get ready for the think pieces either way.
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Jun 12, 2019 13:28
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I mean we just had a round of "actually americans were terrified of chopsticks in the 80s" so I feel like not even a queer writer would be deemed to earn that kind of critique for the scoldiest scolds, let along guys with a spotty track record like CDPR
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Jun 12, 2019 13:37
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"Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo has weak gunplay and unimaginative stereotypes"
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Jun 12, 2019 13:48
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Chalks posted:IMO it basically just comes down to whether trans people are portrayed as commonplace and accepted in this future setting. They absolutely should be, it's simply absurd to think of a cyberpunk future where you regularly modify any part of your body, replace your entire face or your brain, but if you replace this one specific part then oh no that's weird. It goes against the entire concept of cyberpunk. I think this pretty much hits it on the head. In the context of a setting where trans people are all over the place and no-one is surprised by seeing a person with big tiddies and a honking dong, an ad like that comes across as sleazy capitalist use of sex to sell a product. OTOH if the setting as a whole portrays trans people as being outliers, then the ad takes on the connotation of a fetish/freakshow thing, which is rather more offensive to me. And I know some people are going "Oh, but it's cyberpunk, it's meant to be a nasty grim dystopian setting!" and okay, yes, that makes it plausible within that frame that corporations would put up lovely fetishy advertising. It doesn't make it socially responsible for CDPR to do it in the game when it reinforces the stereotypes about an already persecuted group IRL, especially if they don't include any more nuanced representations of trans people. Now, we don't know yet what the games handling of that issue will be like overall. As a trans person, that ad alone certainly isn't going to make me preemptively boycott a cool game. But in the context of the developer's previous track record, it definitely strikes me as a bad sign.
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Jun 12, 2019 13:50
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quote:I’m also increasingly concerned about Cyberpunk’s handling of non-white cultures. Last year’s Gamescom demo drew criticism for its clumsy and inauthentic presentation of a Latino character, and I’m not convinced the Voodoo Boys are a step in the right direction. At one point V, the player character, mockingly says “and who are dem” in response to Placide’s pronunciation. I asked Tomaskiewicz if he was concerned they weren’t treating certain cultures with enough respect. lmao
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Jun 12, 2019 13:59
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Well this isn't a particularly good sign for the topic of the current derailment. The gunplay issues may well be real considering their previous games have had no gunplay in them what so ever. Also not forgetting that TW3 was the third of a series that had some pretty janky controls at times. Come on CDPR don't do this to me.
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Jun 12, 2019 13:59
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doingitwrong posted:Why on earth would you think that a universe where people can be whatever they want is a world where gender has also ceased to matter? Lt. Lizard posted:Things that are commonplace and ordinary in our society are constantly glorified and fetishised in advertising in order to appear unusual and catch attention of potential customer. Even if body modifications are commonplace, they are still an example of changing something about yourself, and would be still used in an exaggerated way in advertisement to convey image of changing or mixing things.That goes double if that relatively ordinary thing is still somewhat controversial and/or has anything to do with human sexuality. Chalks posted:I disagree, if it was a model with giant breasts and the slogan said "buy our super sized drink" it would be very similar. It's absolutely objectification but it fits in this vision of the future. They pick a model, say that they are hot because they have modified their body in this way, also buy our drink. Yeah these are good points. I was basically assuming that this is a world where identity is so fluid that the model on the poster wouldn't even register as a "mix" of anything. But maybe that's totally wrong and there are still "standard" gender norms or whatever. (I still feel like given all the weird stuff we've seen in this future world then a model in an advertisement that was "mixing things up" would have like a tail or scales or some poo poo, not just be trans.)
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Jun 12, 2019 14:00
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A shooter with weak gunplay would still be a billion times better than the combat in Witcher 3
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Jun 12, 2019 14:03
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quote:At one point V, the player character, mockingly says “and who are dem” this game is going to be such a trainwreck reminds me of that Black npc in deus ex human revolution Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 14:03
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also i saw the ad people were talking about and wow, what the poo poo cdprojekt, i feel like any person with any knowledge of trans issues would have said "hmmm guys?? this doesn't seem very good"
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Jun 12, 2019 14:05
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Andrast posted:A shooter with weak gunplay would still be a billion times better than the combat in Witcher 3 A shooter with weak gunplay is still basically held up as one of the best RPGs of the early 2010s but like I'm still being cautiously optimistic at best.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:07
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Kurtofan posted:this game is going to be such a trainwreck It sounds pretty bad, but let's not be hyperbolic. It's hard to imagine that they'll have anything quite as misguided as that in there. You'd have to be actively trying. Either way, this and the whole GOG/CPR corporate culture has pushed this into wait and see territory for me, rather than day 1. It's not like there'll be a shortage of games in Q1 next year.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:17
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This game is going to kick rear end
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Jun 12, 2019 14:18
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If the gunplay is as good as in the gameplay trailer they showed last year I can live with that. For the stereotypes issue...yyyyyikes on that one if it’s as bad as he says it is. But I’ll see for myself when that presentation eventually goes public.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:19
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Andrast posted:This game is going to kick rear end Yes it will. Can’t wait.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:20
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That RPS write up of the preview is dogshit outside of concerns about the gunplay.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:21
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gently caress me I'm gonna need to upgrade my PC after all these yearsJBP posted:That RPS write up of the preview is dogshit outside of concerns about the gunplay. dunno when the big changes happened to RPS (including the make-over of the site itself which is ugly as gently caress now) but it has been going downhill lately
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Jun 12, 2019 14:22
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I find it very easy to not care what Rock, Paper, Shotgun says about anything.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:23
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At no point in the past 5 years has RPS not been at least 60% full of poo poo.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:24
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Then the bad player stabbed them in the back and it was horrible 
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Jun 12, 2019 14:24
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Roman Reigns posted:For the stereotypes issue...yyyyyikes on that one if it’s as bad as he says it is. But I’ll see for myself when that presentation eventually goes public. I checked out on their opinion when they brought up a completely out of place comparison to something in Banks work, which made them sound like both a super nerd and one that didn't understand what the gently caress they were reading. At that point I just assumed they were looking for a reason to be disappointed so they could write a counter argument to the endless number of people that literally want to blow Keanu.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:26
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Mulva posted:.At that point I just assumed they were looking for a reason to be disappointed It's always this.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:30
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It feels like a lifetime ago when I came in the thread to check things out and people were freaking out about trans stuff and now people are freaking out because V made fun of a Jamaican accent to some Jamaican cyberhacker equivalent to a drug dealer
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Jun 12, 2019 14:37
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Andrast posted:This game is going to kick rear end But CD Projekt has exactly the same working conditions as any other studio, which makes them uniquely bad.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:39
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Glenn Quebec posted:It feels like a lifetime ago when I came in the thread to check things out and people were freaking out about trans stuff and now people are freaking out because V made fun of a Jamaican accent to some Jamaican cyberhacker equivalent to a drug dealer Never stop freaking out.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:40
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Skippy McPants posted:Co-opting the aesthetic without taking on any of the underlying themes is a chronic issue with all the various "punk" genres. Aren't they taking on the underlying themes?
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Jun 12, 2019 14:48
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Ah yes, that stereotype we all have about Haitians: their relentless pursuit of digital transference. It's also telling that the article leaves out the part that every other hands-on I've seen mentions, where the actual boss of the Voodoo Boys continues to help you and it sounds like it was just her lieutenant overstepping. Plus how stupid can he be if he thinks that corpo-dude was completely on the level. RPS is such a rag.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:50
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Turin Turambar posted:Aren't they taking on the underlying themes? CDPR has yet to "earn" the right to do that, apparently
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Jun 12, 2019 14:51
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tl;dr - "cyberpunk fails to solve the problems of racial equality and injustice in a 50-minute gameplay demo, and the devs did not explain every story beat when pressed, therefore i am very concerned about the future of this videogame made by polish people"  I usually like RPS, but someone wanted ~dem clicks~.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:56
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Looking forward to interacting with my reliable and faultless cyberpunk friend, a corpo white man.
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Jun 12, 2019 14:59
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Sleazy exploitative corporate advertising in MY dystopian future?
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Jun 12, 2019 15:06
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Glenn Quebec posted:It feels like a lifetime ago when I came in the thread to check things out and people were freaking out about trans stuff and now people are freaking out because V made fun of a Jamaican accent to some Jamaican cyberhacker equivalent to a drug dealer Most posts are about trans people actually. Like 4 people have talked about the rps article and 0 of them have agreed with it so far.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:08
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JBP posted:Looking forward to interacting with my reliable and faultless cyberpunk friend, a corpo white man. As we all know Tyrell is the real victim in Blade Runner, according to noted movie expert and auteur David Cage
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Jun 12, 2019 15:08
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Agnosticnixie posted:As we all know Tyrell is the real victim in Blade Runner, according to noted movie expert and auteur David Cage If only David Cage could be making Cyberpunk, then we could be certain it would be not political.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:18
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It certainly is a very RPS article. Has anyone else mentioned the gunplay in the demo? That's my biggest concern from the article but honestly a strong RPG doesn't need to have decent combat to still be really good, as long as the RPG elements give you enough room to avoid combat if you want to. It seems like this game will do that, especially if there's a non-lethal playthrough option.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:20
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I mean it didn't help that the most of the gunplay we've seen has been with some pitiful little automatic pistol. I suspect using the usual Cool Weapons like shotguns and revolvers will be more satisfying, specially with appropriate Talents/Perks
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Jun 12, 2019 15:24
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Kilometres Davis posted:Mad Men is literally about sexism, it's ill effects on men and women both, and what it means to "be" someone. cykabylat 2077: Get ready for the think pieces either way. frajaq posted:dunno when the big changes happened to RPS (including the make-over of the site itself which is ugly as gently caress now) but it has been going downhill lately I think theyve had 100% staff turnover two or three times from when i can vaguely remember them being alright 10 years ago. It's really sad. All of their articles feel like the absolute worst parts of current games journalism (extremely halfassed rushed woke thinkpieces) mixed with the worst parts of early 2000s game journalism (writing that sounds like american teenagers trying to recreate monty python even though its done by british adults) Farm Frenzy fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 15:24
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steinrokkan posted:But CD Projekt has exactly the same working conditions as any other studio, which makes them uniquely bad. "but all big gaming companies are poo poo" is not a defense
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Jun 12, 2019 15:28
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