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SpartanIvy posted:I think I have a solution for the manga/anime spoiler problem. All manga readers are required to wear armbands within the walls of the anime only thread. If you're caught discussing non-anime history you'll be shipped off to Pet Island and eaten by dogs. Your spinal fluid will then be harvested for Lowtax. Loving this fantastic post. It’s making me wish I had the money to tag every manga reader with this.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:40
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God, the more images I see, the more I realize just how many callbacks I'm missing. I sure wish this series didn't have such a gigantic hiatus after S1. https://twitter.com/YonkouProd/status/1140494211499745280
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Jun 17, 2019 21:42
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:okay but you can see, I hope, how using explicitly Holocaust-inspired imagery to convey a message of "whether it's avenging past genocides or not doesn't matter" might not be inconsequential to the reader, and Isayama using it as something that doesn't matter is not a choice that is above criticism
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Jun 17, 2019 21:44
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Anime only as well. Going off what's happened so far I don't really have an issue with Isayama telling a story of ambiguous hatreds and mistakes on all sides. I don't really have an issue with taking inspiration from the Holocaust in portraying fictional atrocities either. But putting those two strands together leaves me a bit uneasy. But it's definitely not ill-intentioned or pro-fascist so I'll just wait and see where it goes and what it says. My other minor concern at this point is that the character motivations so far have been all about getting to the basement and solving the mystery. With that done, something else is going to have to happen now to keep the narrative momentum.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:46
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My favorite thing about the recent reveals is we finally have explanations for why Bertholt and Reiner are so deadset on killing everyone in the walls. It's because they're loving nazis. I can continue hating them and rooting for Reiner's death someday. 
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Jun 17, 2019 21:50
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Tir McDohl posted:My favorite thing about the recent reveals is we finally have explanations for why Bertholt and Reiner are so deadset on killing everyone in the walls. It's because they're loving nazis. I can continue hating them and rooting for Reiner's death someday. They’re brainwashed children man......
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Jun 17, 2019 22:06
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P-Mack posted:Anime only as well. Going off what's happened so far I don't really have an issue with Isayama telling a story of ambiguous hatreds and mistakes on all sides. I don't really have an issue with taking inspiration from the Holocaust in portraying fictional atrocities either. But putting those two strands together leaves me a bit uneasy. But it's definitely not ill-intentioned or pro-fascist so I'll just wait and see where it goes and what it says. Getting to the ocean 
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Jun 17, 2019 22:22
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Asuron posted:They’re brainwashed children man...... A lot of their victims were children, too. There's only so much forgiveness I can have for active participants in genocide.
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Jun 17, 2019 22:52
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Tir McDohl posted:A lot of their victims were children, too. There's only so much forgiveness I can have for active participants in genocide. Mate you do realize that this exact phrase applies just as hard to real life child soldiers, right? Hell child soldiers are way more likely to participate in atrocities or genocide because any faction that would be as heinous as to utilize child soldiers probably isn't that far from being willing to commit genocide! Christ how the gently caress are children that were brainwashed from birth (or subject to intense trauma to induce loyalty to their victimizers) supposed to bootstrap their way out of this mentality???
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Jun 17, 2019 23:06
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SpartanIvy posted:I think I have a solution for the manga/anime spoiler problem. All manga readers are required to wear armbands within the walls of the anime only thread. If you're caught discussing non-anime history you'll be shipped off to Pet Island and eaten by dogs. Your spinal fluid will then be harvested for Lowtax. This is a really good post and I thought you should know.  Tir McDohl posted:My favorite thing about the recent reveals is we finally have explanations for why Bertholt and Reiner are so deadset on killing everyone in the walls. It's because they're loving nazis. I can continue hating them and rooting for Reiner's death someday. It does make more sense, but they're child-soldiers, brainwashed to hate their own people...not sure we can rationalize their motives quite yet. R/B/A are basically the kids who get kidnapped by various terrorist orgs in sub-Saharan Africa.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:09
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A big flaming stink posted:Christ how the gently caress are children that were brainwashed from birth (or subject to intense trauma to induce loyalty to their victimizers) supposed to bootstrap their way out of this mentality??? They aren't supposed to, by design.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:20
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Boy they censored that episode a bit, I expected black screens at the very least. Be thankful for cutaways I guess.Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:This is a really good post and I thought you should know. Bert at the very least figures it out and continues on his path. Why? In my opinion he was just done with it all. Knowing the things he knew Erin alone couldn't win a fight against Marley and the world as a whole, if he defects its still 3(2.5) vs 6 titans and a whole lot more people including Eldians, if somehow they do win Bert knows what would happen to the world if the founding titan got pissed off. Best case scenario wall group stays in their walls and forgets all this(they won't) and Marley fucks off from Paradis(they won't). Its complicated, two wrongs not right, etc, and we are still missing pieces but knowing what we know after this episode its what was going through his mind as he was chatting with Armin in episode 3 of this season. A rewatch/read is going to be on a lot of people's plates now and its going to really help people to understand how much of a titanic clusterfuck this whole thing is.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:34
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So the general reception to this season has been pretty okay, it seems:
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Jun 18, 2019 00:36
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Beefstew posted:So the general reception to this season has been pretty okay, it seems: I really hope the new studio that picks this up can nail next season.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:46
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Fat and Useless posted:
It's a fair point to those criticizing my posts that Reiner has some mental lapses and is not always in the right state, but my reaction was certainly colored by Bertholt in the last few episodes and the clear choice he made. I think about Beast Titan as well. It was interesting seeing how he came to betray his parents who mistreated him like a tool. But I dont believe him for a second when he was trying to convince Eren to join him.
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Jun 18, 2019 00:56
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I like that the beginning setup of this series is that the power of the titans was so great and horrifying that humanity was driven to near extinction, but the actual reason that the plot began moving is that titan power is becoming outmoded by advancing technology, and the titan empire needs oil presumably to fuel their mechanical war machines. Also, that this whole story started with basically a deal with the devil happening on a national scale.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:40
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Fat and Useless posted:Bert at the very least figures it out and continues on his path. Why? In my opinion he was just done with it all. Knowing the things he knew Erin alone couldn't win a fight against Marley and the world as a whole, if he defects its still 3(2.5) vs 6 titans and a whole lot more people including Eldians, if somehow they do win Bert knows what would happen to the world if the founding titan got pissed off. Yeah, Bert was just done. The guilt of what they did, after realizing the Enemy weren't Devils as they had been taught, nearly broke them. Reiner disassociated, Annie tried to close her personality off and latched onto the idea that after finishing their mission she could finally return to her father, and Berthold just became a follower and had the other two make all the decisions for him. The Berthold we see at the end has had some time away from the Walldians to unpack and, convinced that the destruction of Paradis is inevitable and since his hands are already covered in the blood of a million innocents, came to the decision that the best he can do is take care of the rest himself to prevent another unfortunate soul from experiencing what he and his friends went through. Reiner is in a similar place, while Zeke seems to be (at least on the surface) understanding of the situation and sympathetic to their plight.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:39
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Man, the season 2 ED really does lay it all bare. Including at the end, sure enough, nine Titans.
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Jun 18, 2019 02:48
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Conspiratiorist posted:Yeah, Bert was just done. Zeke is understanding of Erin, but not the people within the wall, which he enjoys throwing rock baseballs at.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:08
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Mordja posted:Man, the season 2 ED really does lay it all bare. Including at the end, sure enough, nine Titans. I especially liked how there's a big X on Ymir, showing their target is the coordinate.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:15
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The effectiveness of the reveal is such that the S2 ED was seen as incredibly spoilery by manga readers but without the knowledge from the reveal is more or less completely inscrutable.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:39
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SpartanIvy posted:Zeke is understanding of Erin, but not the people within the wall, which he enjoys throwing rock baseballs at. That's not what I meant, but you'll notice his flippant attitude towards slaughtering the charging soldiers broke a couple times, and he lamented how in their ignorance they'll struggle pointlessly against the doom that awaits them. What exactly he meant with "I shouldn't be like my father" as he caught himself is left open, but what we've been shown of Grisha is that he was so caught up in the idea of restoring Eldia and vengeance against Marley that he lost sight of his own son.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:39
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Tir McDohl posted:A lot of their victims were children, too. There's only so much forgiveness I can have for active participants in genocide. He realized early on that they are just people, just normal people, not monsters like he had been indoctrinated to be his entire life, and has been wrestling in his head the whole time between his lifelong duty and his conscience. Bert chose to silence his conscience in the face of his assigned role, regardless of what he saw to the contrary, but Reiner couldn't do that, and the result is his mental faculties inevitably crumbling.
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Jun 18, 2019 04:55
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Hey, so I know it's fun to speculate and what have you and I totally welcome that, but please try to keep the "intermixed" spoiler talk to a minimum, 'kay? Love ya goons and whatnot!
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Jun 18, 2019 05:22
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I just watched 35 with Ymir's backstory and it makes a lot more sense now, that's for sure! You see the guards, the Wall, the injections... I guess since it was 60 years ago it was a cult of Eldians trying to bring about their myth/religion through lies. I think I asked this before but regarding Connie's village, I guess someone (Zeke?) must have somehow injected the whole village to turn them into titans? And Connie's mum became an abnormal, and she's still there chilling in her house.
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Jun 18, 2019 12:04
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So the original Founding Titan who set up the walls was King Fritz, but somehow in the modern day the King Fritz on the throne is a fake and the real royal family is the Reiss family? Thats pretty suspicious. It's probably just that they changed their name so they could rule from the shadows and installed a fake under the name Fritz but why would they need to do that? The last big reveals are going to come from the real reason King Fritz set up the walls now and what happened between then and now. Apparently it's only been 100ish years since then, which is loving crazy.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:20
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Nephthys posted:[...]Apparently it's only been 100ish years since then, which is loving crazy. That's the problem with talking about 2000 year period in the same breath as 100 years. The significance of 100 years get lost by association. That's between four and five generations of people, and a lot can happen and change. In 100 years IRL, imperialism practically disappeared and was replaced by capitalism and communism, and we got nuclear power, space exploration and digital technology.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:55
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Donnerberg posted:In 100 years IRL, imperialism practically disappeared 
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Jun 18, 2019 15:43
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Yeah, sorry. I failed to specify I meant 100 years back from now, and I don't know the English terms and I'm bad a politics to start with. I'm thinking of whatever the term for the Russians Tsars and German Kaisers were. I thought Emperors claiming land was Imperialism, but whatever, it isn't the point I was trying to make. The 20th Century pretty much ended whatever those guys were doing. Same with how China had a revolution too. Basically, the world wars and the years that followed changed both the map and people's cultures. The point is that massive changes can happen in 100 years. Sorry for going off on a tangent. It was well intended, but poorly executed. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 18, 2019 |
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Jun 18, 2019 16:49
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The word you're looking for is probably "feudalism," although that still doesn't really make the statement correct (in that it's something that declined slowly over like 400-500 years and Tsarist Russia was a weird outlier and holdout rather than broadly representative, and that's just speaking of Europe in particular.)
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Jun 18, 2019 17:16
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Imperial rule? Autocracy?
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Jun 18, 2019 18:17
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Donnerberg posted:Yeah, sorry. I failed to specify I meant 100 years back from now, and I don't know the English terms and I'm bad a politics to start with. I'm thinking of whatever the term for the Russians Tsars and German Kaisers were. I thought Emperors claiming land was Imperialism, but whatever, it isn't the point I was trying to make. The 20th Century pretty much ended whatever those guys were doing. Same with how China had a revolution too. Basically, the world wars and the years that followed changed both the map and people's cultures. The point is that massive changes can happen in 100 years. We get what you're trying to say, but you really should read up on world history.
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Jun 18, 2019 20:32
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Conspiratiorist posted:We get what you're trying to say, but you really should read up on world history. Durrrrr
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Jun 18, 2019 22:47
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Did anyone rewatch the episode with Kenny and the King? That might make more sense now.
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Jun 18, 2019 22:47
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Why is everyone here mentioning child soldiers, what did I miss from this last episode that would make us think Bert and Reiner were recruited as children?
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Jun 19, 2019 01:16
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Probably because they were children when they showed up to break a hole in Wall Maria?
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Jun 19, 2019 01:23
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Why is everyone here mentioning child soldiers, what did I miss from this last episode that would make us think Bert and Reiner were recruited as children? Eren is 15 pre-timeskip. Bert and Reiner are presumably his age and were, before he even joined the scouts, already recruited into the army and sent to attack the walls. e: apparently Reiner is 17 in the year 850
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Jun 19, 2019 01:26
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Why is everyone here mentioning child soldiers, what did I miss from this last episode that would make us think Bert and Reiner were recruited as children? In this past episode, the Marleyans are asking for Eldian children to be "warriors" for the Marleyan army.
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Jun 19, 2019 01:28
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Why is everyone here mentioning child soldiers, what did I miss from this last episode that would make us think Bert and Reiner were recruited as children? The are significantly younger in the Ymir flashback. There were also contemporaries of Eren/Mikasa/Armin, which puts them in their early/mid-teens at the time of the breach? Judging by the fact that one of them got eaten, I'm guessing R/B/A/? were not experienced or prepared for their attack. Honestly, since we now know Grisha wasn't a part of it: it was really blind, dumb luck that the King had been killed at the time of the attack on Shiganshima, because otherwise he might have made good on his promise to use the Wall Titans to crush the whole world...I've really got to go back and rewatch (or just read the manga, now that WIT is out?). theCalamity posted:In this past episode, the Marleyans are asking for Eldian children to be "warriors" for the Marleyan army. Also this...it's probably the only reason the Marlians keep the Eldians around: future recruits for the titans they control. It's obvious everyone hates them and wants them exterminated, so there has to be some utility behind keeping Eldians alive if you can have them fed to dogs without consequences. poo poo, since we know they can just inject some serum and turn rando Eldians into titans, I bet half of their military strategy is to just throw rando Eldians into battle as mindless monsters. Drop 20 of them from an zeppelin and you got some major pandemonium...
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Jun 19, 2019 01:41
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For anime only viewers, there's a really dumb "actually, aot is fascist" clickbait article on polygon that's mixed with manga spoilers and straight up wrong takes despite dressing itself up as a take on the anime. Just a fair warning in case anyone happens to see that stupid article around, don't click on it.
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Jun 19, 2019 02:53
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