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El_Elegante posted:His take seems to be that you can’t name a gang with women and people of color in it The Animals because it means the author thinks the gang members lack interiority or are inhuman. The RPS review that kicked off this nonsense did insist they were a gang of black people which while it has separate issues was also not true to begin with. Also like he's clearly trying to pretend it's all GGers to not take the L (incidentally lol that anyone still treats it as this life and death internet struggle  )
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Jun 19, 2019 14:30
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El_Elegante posted:I don’t think there’s enough information to make that determination (that every gang is diverse). From what little I've been able to see it doesn't look like any group depicted has a homogeneous makeup. Some of them are so cybered up you can barely tell their race or sex.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:30
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I'm trying to imagine this controvesy as Cyberpunk being 'anti-disabled' last year, when "V" wiped out a gang that was clearly forced to use cybernetics to overcome their collective visual disabilities. But I guess no one cares about the disabled as much, if they're lily whiteys.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:32
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CrazyLoon posted:I'm trying to imagine this controvesy as Cyberpunk being 'anti-disabled' last year, when "V" wiped out a gang that was clearly forced to use cybernetics to overcome their collective visual disabilities. But I guess no one cares about the disabled as much, if they're lily whiteys. hosed up if true
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Jun 19, 2019 14:33
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Pondsmith's response to the criticism of the Animals is that the gang members themselves chose the name because they see themselves as powerful animals. This is obviously silly on face value because the name wasn't chosen by real people, but by writers who created these fictional characters. I still don't understand what the problem is re: a gang some dude made up in a PnP game. Probably cause I haven't given a gently caress to look. What am I missing here to reach the conclusion you've come to?
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Jun 19, 2019 14:34
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Pondsmith's response to the criticism of the Animals is that the gang members themselves chose the name because they see themselves as powerful animals. This is obviously silly on face value because the name wasn't chosen by real people, but by writers who created these fictional characters. Mike Pondsmith posted:2) As for the Animals--the WHOLE FREAKING POINT is that they think of themselves as POWERFUL, DANGEROUS, WILD ANIMALS. You'd have thought the Lady named "Sasquatch" would have given them a clue. He chose the name because he created the gang. It's a twist to get to it being some inherent thing derived by fictional characters when you're talking about the author of the piece. Why would you not take what he's saying at face value given the givens?
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Jun 19, 2019 14:35
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El_Elegante posted:His take seems to be that you can’t name a gang with women and people of color in it The Animals because it means the author thinks the gang members lack interiority or are inhuman. lemonadesweetheart posted:He chose the name because he created the gang. It's a twist to get to it being some inherent thing derived by fictional characters when you're talking about the author of the piece. Why would you not take what he's saying at face value given the givens? Ok cool, sane people came thru. Back to lurking.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:37
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Viva Miriya posted:I still don't understand what the problem is re: a gang some dude made up in a PnP game. Probably cause I haven't given a gently caress to look. What am I missing here to reach the conclusion you've come to? Nobody in these arguments cares about the tabletop game except to cherry pick the dumbest poo poo to reinforce whatever argument they think they're making.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:37
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CrazyLoon posted:I'm trying to imagine this controvesy as Cyberpunk being 'anti-disabled' last year, when "V" wiped out a gang that was clearly forced to use cybernetics to overcome their collective visual disabilities. But I guess no one cares about the disabled as much, if they're lily whiteys. i mean, i have literally seen that sentiment brought up in relation to that demo. though more as a reason to distrust cdpr's attitudes towards transhumanism than indignation per se.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:40
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Gonna take a shot in the dark and say that maybe when the black creator says the gang called The Animals isn't meant to be a racist depiction of black people as animals, you can take him at face value instead of handwringing over whether or not he's secretly self-loathing. Apparently there is one black gang, the Voodoo Boys, but that's because they changed it from the original Cyberpunk 2020 incarnation (white guys stealing another culture to make themselves feel cool) to legitimate Voudon practitioners who speak Creole.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:42
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chitoryu12 posted:Gonna take a shot in the dark and say that maybe when the black creator says the gang called The Animals isn't meant to be a racist depiction of black people as animals, you can take him at face value instead of handwringing over whether or not he's secretly self-loathing. From what I recall, that's still the backstory but by 2077 the "OG" Voodoo Boys all got kicked to curb by the legit the Voudon guys and is now run by Haitian Voodoo Priests. It's almost a nice story of people taking back an identity that is rightfully theirs, it just kind of becomes less nice when you realize what they took back was also one of the most ruthless and violent gangs in Night City, but that's Cyberpunk for you!
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Jun 19, 2019 14:47
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Orange Crush Rush posted:From what I recall, that's still the backstory but by 2077 the "OG" Voodoo Boys all got kicked to curb by the legit the Voudon guys and is now run by Haitian Voodoo Priests. Taking out guys who also terrorized the underclass whose culture they made a joke of feels doubly good tbh
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Jun 19, 2019 14:49
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Pondsmith's response to the criticism of the Animals is that the gang members themselves chose the name because they see themselves as powerful animals. This is obviously silly on face value because the name wasn't chosen by real people, but by writers who created these fictional characters. His response was "it wasn't chosen for racist reasons, it was chosen for these other reasons" - that is a perfectly fine response. Obviously the name was chosen by him, he's defending his choices against accusations that he is being racist. Saying that it's a bad defence is absolutely implying that he's racist. The entire argument is loving absurd. I am really looking forward to RPS's entirely white writing staff weighing in to tell me exactly what words this black guy is allowed to use without being racist against himself. Holy poo poo.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:50
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Agnosticnixie posted:Taking out guys who also terrorized the underclass whose culture they made a joke of feels doubly good tbh Like that's the good part, but the bad part comes when you remember the Voodoo Boys didn't exactly slow down on the whole terrorizing the underclass part.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:52
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Like that's the good part, but the bad part comes when you remember the Voodoo Boys didn't exactly slow down on the whole terrorizing the underclass part. I mean...why ruin a good thing.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:54
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Like that's the good part, but the bad part comes when you remember the Voodoo Boys didn't exactly slow down on the whole terrorizing the underclass part. Welcome to Cyberpunk!
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Jun 19, 2019 15:10
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John Walker, notorious bad opinion haver, was also quoted in that same tweet string that the Absolute Lad, Jeremy Corbyn, was a racist antisemite. Nevermind him being one of very few anti-Apartheid parliamentarians of Labor back in the day(which IIRC it was even discouraged by official party platform). Surely this is a qualified man to discuss politics in vidyagaems. Also, one thing of merit from Pondsmith is his adamant position on "everybody gets to be terrible in the dystopia", which is something people (often more people like Walker) seem to miss in their hurry to be woke as gently caress edit: or in other words, BexGu posted:Welcome to Cyberpunk!
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Jun 19, 2019 15:14
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Bust Rodd posted:I sure wish video games didn’t make people so mad They don't though. The vast majority of the outrage in these situations is put on, and even if it wasn't the best thing anyone can do is to completely ignore it. Like, don't even dignify it with ANY kind of response, and make this one of those unwritten agreements that everyone in the industry agrees is how they'll deal with these kinds of manufactured twitter-storms in future. It's a pipe dream I know but wouldn't it be nice.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:31
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The gang leader is white.... this is people looking to be outraged and coming up with any reason no matter how illogical.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:31
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I resent the idea that you can’t have transgressive attitudes and ideologies represented in a fictional, dystopian universe. Why are so many people demanding respectful and woke depictions from a game that isn’t respectful of anyone? Nobody in this game looks good, or healthy, or is represented as anything other than a hypersexualized, hyper-violent stereotype. I really don’t think the loudest people talking about this game should play it, lol. Imagine how many Twitter warriors are gonna be hunched over their keyboard, furiously logging every instance of slur and side-eye, insisting it’s all a multi-billion dollar corporation implanting racist and transphobic messages intentionally in their game as opposed to this little thing people like to call World-Building. I honestly wish everyone would just do what the Kingdom Come: Deliverance Devs did and just tell everyone to make their own drat game. EDIT: imagine the articles Kotaku, Polygon, and Waypoint would write about representation in The Wire if it were released in 2019.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:33
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I really wish I’d thought of playing as Lady Sasquatch first, though. Mad jealous.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:33
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Maybe we will get John walker screaming at pond smith transcribed as an interview that would be rad
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Jun 19, 2019 16:33
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I don't think KC:D is who you want to be quoting.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:34
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Bust Rodd posted:I resent the idea that you can’t have transgressive attitudes and ideologies represented in a fictional, dystopian universe. Why are so many people demanding respectful and woke depictions from a game that isn’t respectful of anyone? Nobody in this game looks good, or healthy, or is represented as anything other than a hypersexualized, hyper-violent stereotype. Pondsmith basically did: quote:Want to say this just once. I am really tired of well meaning people on internet chat boards paternalistically telling me what I, as a black person, should be offended by. You want to be my ally? Go gird up your loins and at this year's Thanksgiving dinner, have the nerve to tell your racist Uncle Bob to STFU for a change. https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/c093y2/cyberpunk_2077_official_twitter_trolling_the/
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Jun 19, 2019 16:35
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Bust Rodd posted:
Boy this thread is full of some real winners huh
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Jun 19, 2019 16:38
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I am just going to play the game and hopefully enjoy it. I can't keep up with all of these hot takes, I shouldn't be expected to, and it's not my problem.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:45
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What did the Kingdom Come: Deliverance guy do exactly? I heard some scuttlebutt that he was somewhat conservative in his personal life but then I heard that he made a sweet video game and trolled all the concerned nerds who tried to browbeat him into putting poo poo in his game he didn’t want. Also anyone who thinks J. Corbyn is an Anti-Semite is literally helmet-kid levels of dumb.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:49
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I said come in! posted:I am just going to play the game and hopefully enjoy it. I can't keep up with all of these hot takes, I shouldn't be expected to, and it's not my problem. If you don't want to read hot takes then reading this thread is the wrong choice
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Jun 19, 2019 16:51
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Bust Rodd posted:What did the Kingdom Come: Deliverance guy do exactly? I heard some scuttlebutt that he was somewhat conservative in his personal life but then I heard that he made a sweet video game and trolled all the concerned nerds who tried to browbeat him into putting poo poo in his game he didn’t want. He supported gamergate then tried to backpedal when he got a bunch of poo poo for it, his "historically accurate" schtick is both a completely lovely (and wrong) view of history and a dogwhistle for the alt-right, and his recent twitter likes are some pretty bad poo poo including a tweet mocking a Parkland shooting survivor.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:53
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“Supported gamergate” is a meaningless word salad to me, I disagree with the middle point and I’d have to see the tweet to make that judgment call. I mean Kyle Kachuv or whatever is a Parkland Survivor and I’ve been dunking on him all week. In any case, Pondsmith is handling this correctly and RPS continue to huff butt-fumes.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:57
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Specifically what got him into hot water is that he replied to a complaint about the cast of his game being 100% white (except for the villainous Cumans, who are basically a faceless evil horde) by sarcastically tweeting a screencap from Black Knight (a movie where Martin Lawrence plays a black guy who gets dropped into the 15th century) and insisting that every single person you encounter in Bohemia being white is actually accurate.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:58
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Bust Rodd posted:“Supported gamergate” is a meaningless word salad to me, I disagree with the middle point and I’d have to see the tweet to make that judgment call. "Supported gamergate" means he joined or lent legitimacy to the bandwagon of people who harassed women in the games industry in general and the games press on particular.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:59
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The Cyberpunk 2077 teaser trailer video popped up in my YouTube recommended, from six and a half years ago. I legit had no idea this game has been in development for so long.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:59
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Hamelekim posted:The gang leader is white.... this is people looking to be outraged and coming up with any reason no matter how illogical.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:59
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Bust Rodd posted:“Supported gamergate” is a meaningless word salad to me, I disagree with the middle point and I’d have to see the tweet to make that judgment call. I mean Kyle Kachuv or whatever is a Parkland Survivor and I’ve been dunking on him all week. You can disagree. That's fine. Pretty much every historian would disagree with you though.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:00
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frajaq posted:lads check this out yeah. the animals were multi racial too. like there were a ton of white ones. hell their leader was a white woman. also rock paper shotgun is shithole that makes polygon look good. also this stupid gently caress got ratioed. Bust Rodd posted:What did the Kingdom Come: Deliverance guy do exactly? I heard some scuttlebutt that he was somewhat conservative in his personal life but then I heard that he made a sweet video game and trolled all the concerned nerds who tried to browbeat him into putting poo poo in his game he didn’t want. basicaly some tumblr historian said moors and africans were all over the place in rural bohemia because of some painting of an african saint painted in Prague. he laughed at them and talked about how they used tons of historical data to make the game accurate. like the the dude is a conservative rear end in a top hat but living through the USSR in the czech republic can make you one. Hamelekim posted:The gang leader is white.... this is people looking to be outraged and coming up with any reason no matter how illogical. alot of the outrage about the animals and voodo boys and the violence comes from the RPS article about the dude bitching about the demo. except me and others at e3 and that guy was full of loving poo poo. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 17:01
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Pylons posted:You can disagree. That's fine. Pretty much every historian would disagree with you though. Historians of gamergate?
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Jun 19, 2019 17:03
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steinrokkan posted:Historians of gamergate? Follow the conversation better.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:06
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steinrokkan posted:Historians of gamergate? i think he means of bohemia/late middle ages. like i think that the head warhouse studio is a rear end in a top hat but he was right to bite back at some of the stupid hot take poo poo against his game.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:07
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I am incredibly loving tired of reading the wordgamergate in TYOOL 2019.
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