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nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!
Alright, I'll do whatever with the classes. Thanks!

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corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
I will say Machinist is basically useless in ff12. Guns aren't great on their own, and you will never ever use Measures because they are impossible to set up gambits for and there is no practical way to use them manually

Barudak
May 7, 2007

You have the switch version, you can respec at almost literally any time.

If youre super paranoid about difficulty* make one of balthier, basch, fran a white mage and vaan some form of physical attack class it literally doesn't matter. Then once youve gotten back to rabanastre after freeing basch you can swap everybody into whatever classes you want.

*I didnt have a character capable of casting healing magic until i had a full party. This game is bonkers easy dont stress at all about anything.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
Ff12 literally plays itself, it's a mindless slog. so don't worry about difficulty

The toughest super boss in it is purely difficult because it has lots of health so the fight takes longer and that's it

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

corn in the bible posted:

I will say Machinist is basically useless in ff12. Guns aren't great on their own, and you will never ever use Measures because they are impossible to set up gambits for and there is no practical way to use them manually

Machinist becomes the ultimate non stop gently caress you machine super super late in the game or extremely early thanks to items. You can get an Arcturus at Raithwall and shoot everything to bits until late game using elemental shots. Machinist and White Mage is quite good. Measures aren't necessary to make the class good or worthwhile even.

E: machinist uhlan berserk dps machine is also excellent

JBP fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 21, 2019

The Ultimate Doge
May 1, 2019

by Nyc_Tattoo
Honestly I don't see the problem. Tifa's still got good sized titties, they're just not huge retarded fake 90s titties

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

The Ultimate Doge posted:

Honestly I don't see the problem. Tifa's still got good sized titties, they're just not huge retarded fake 90s titties

B..buh...censorship....SJWs!

That's basically what it comes down to for like...95% of the people complaining about Tifa's breasts in FFVIIR. The other 5% are more upfront with "I just like big tits".

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Decided to replay FFT on my phone. Great game and the port is really solid.

On my first playthrough I never did any of the sidequests so I was missing a lot of endgame items and special recruits so I think I'm doing that this time

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

corn in the bible posted:

I will say Machinist is basically useless in ff12. Guns aren't great on their own, and you will never ever use Measures because they are impossible to set up gambits for and there is no practical way to use them manually

I don't understand measures at all.

ManSedan
May 7, 2006
Seats 4
I love some ‘zooks as much as anybody does but I’m glad super high res Tifa isn’t running around doing backflips with super high res eiken jugs flopping all over the place.

Wungus
Mar 5, 2004

I'm mad they're not putting hella tiddies on everyone else.

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

ManSedan posted:

I love some ‘zooks as much as anybody does but I’m glad super high res Tifa isn’t running around doing backflips with super high res eiken jugs flopping all over the place.

I just want to know where this ethics department was when Cindy was being designed in FFXV. Or the entire concept of the Viera.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
So basically Legend of Mana is a successful Shut Up and Jam Gaiden 2?

The Ultimate Doge
May 1, 2019

by Nyc_Tattoo
It's about ethics in video game mammary glands

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Whalley posted:

I'm mad they're not putting hella tiddies on everyone else.

Best Waifu is obviously Barret with a ginormous rack to go with the gun show.

Scoss
Aug 17, 2015
I honestly didn't even realize they changed Tifa's bust until people started whining. She looked about right to me, in line with the general move towards more realistically proportioned character designs and away from straight anime. The designs are still not exactly photoreal (i.e. Last of Us), but they are way more naturalistic and the rendering is now definitely photoreal. Huge honkers from the original design would have looked comically out of place with the new art direction.

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Scoss posted:

I honestly didn't even realize they changed Tifa's bust until people started whining. She looked about right to me, in line with the general move towards more realistically proportioned character designs and away from straight anime. The designs are still not exactly photoreal (i.e. Last of Us), but they are way more naturalistic and the rendering is now definitely photoreal. Huge honkers from the original design would have looked comically out of place with the new art direction.

It's really, really obvious what it's really about when far less people are complaining that Cloud's hair is less insane. They can crow about the original designs all they like, but....

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012
The change is kinda whatever but they probably should've just shut the gently caress up about it once they went with it instead of throwing it on the ethics department

It's a little confusing though because the last model they had was fine without going "unga bunga beeg teetee"? The more hosed up thing with the design for me is adding all the extra black.



It's all really moot though, there'll be mods to make them bigger than her head or glow in the dark or whatever on PC within hours if not minutes when that comes out so anyone with angst about the titty will just get that one

Amppelix
Aug 6, 2010

nrook posted:

I'm sure 8000 people have already asked this before, so apologies in advance, but:

I'm about to start FF12 on the Switch. I gather it has a job system where you assign each characters two jobs permanently. As such, I dunno which jobs to give everybody! Is there a decent place to read about :

1. What is cool about each job?
2. What are interesting combinations one can do with jobs?
3. Are there any types of job combinations I should avoid?
4. Does it really matter which characters get which jobs, or can I pretty much ignore that if I want to?

I'm not really worried about effectiveness, since I hear the game isn't very difficult, but I do want everybody to be useful and fun.
I read up on the classes on the final fantasy wiki. It actually has a pretty good writeup for each one with what their strengths are and what classes make for a good combo.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010
I hope they plan on giving a massive overhaul to it and not just give it the Secret of Mana treatment, because if there's any game I can think of that just needs to be completely redone, it's Legend of Mana.

Legend of Mana is some of Square at their absolute worst. The game itself is so buried in unnecessary subsystems and obtuse FAQ bullshit with progress many quests gated by arbitrary triggers, access to locations and quests gated by criteria you have to stumble across (The third quest in the game most people will complete gives you two companions at your home base you can pick up at any time at no cost... except there is a location in the game you unlock later in the game that only activates when you're alone and the game gives you zero clues that is the case,) a ton of tiny and large systems like magic creation and monster raising to interact with any one of which could form the backbone of it's own game, and all of it frames... a very lackluster action RPG with a barely-functional, super basic combat engine with some obtuse action learning systems tacked on that doesn't really manage to stay fresh through a normal one-plotline playthough, forget three.

The worst part is, what is there that's good is really good- the visual imagery and soundtrack are beautiful. The plot, as incoherently as it is told, is probably the strongest in the Mana series once you start finding all the connecting threads. There's a lot of good ideas in the combat system that could lead to a fun and robust action RPG just are never needed because just running up and whacking things with your basic or heavy attack is more then good enough for the entire game and often outperforms anything remotely more elaborate.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather


WaltherFeng posted:

Decided to replay FFT on my phone. Great game and the port is really solid.

On my first playthrough I never did any of the sidequests so I was missing a lot of endgame items and special recruits so I think I'm doing that this time

I've been wanting to replay this too and get this on my phone, but I'm afraid it's going to be too easy and I don't really want to spend money on something that's not really going to be a challenge...

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

zenguitarman posted:

I've been wanting to replay this too and get this on my phone, but I'm afraid it's going to be too easy and I don't really want to spend money on something that's not really going to be a challenge...

If you're down with emulating, the PSP emulates really well these days, and there's a patch to remove the slowdown from that version. Could be a good way to test if you like it before shelling out.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

The Ultimate Doge posted:

Honestly I don't see the problem. Tifa's still got good sized titties, they're just not huge retarded fake 90s titties
the thing people arent getting is that she has a sports bra on and her boobs are barely any smaller than they were in ff7

if anything her boobs are bigger now

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Gamers not understanding boobs is the only thing that makes sense.

As a sex haver I understand boobs.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

And also, that interview going around is a mistranslation. They didn't say to reduce the size of her boobs, they said to give her a sports bra and not to put in tons of jiggle physics.



In fact, they don't mention reducing her breast size at all. Which, again, is because they kind of didn't. Wearing a sports bra just makes them look a bit smaller.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 21, 2019

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Mr. Locke posted:

I hope they plan on giving a massive overhaul to it and not just give it the Secret of Mana treatment, because if there's any game I can think of that just needs to be completely redone, it's Legend of Mana.

Hmm, wrong.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Mr. Locke posted:

I hope they plan on giving a massive overhaul to it and not just give it the Secret of Mana treatment, because if there's any game I can think of that just needs to be completely redone, it's Legend of Mana.

Legend of Mana is some of Square at their absolute worst. The game itself is so buried in unnecessary subsystems and obtuse FAQ bullshit with progress many quests gated by arbitrary triggers, access to locations and quests gated by criteria you have to stumble across (The third quest in the game most people will complete gives you two companions at your home base you can pick up at any time at no cost... except there is a location in the game you unlock later in the game that only activates when you're alone and the game gives you zero clues that is the case,) a ton of tiny and large systems like magic creation and monster raising to interact with any one of which could form the backbone of it's own game, and all of it frames... a very lackluster action RPG with a barely-functional, super basic combat engine with some obtuse action learning systems tacked on that doesn't really manage to stay fresh through a normal one-plotline playthough, forget three.

The worst part is, what is there that's good is really good- the visual imagery and soundtrack are beautiful. The plot, as incoherently as it is told, is probably the strongest in the Mana series once you start finding all the connecting threads. There's a lot of good ideas in the combat system that could lead to a fun and robust action RPG just are never needed because just running up and whacking things with your basic or heavy attack is more then good enough for the entire game and often outperforms anything remotely more elaborate.

If it were more focused it wouldn't be as good.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010

corn in the bible posted:

If it were more focused it wouldn't be as good.

I’m not saying I want anything from the structure changed, outside dealing with how easy it is to lock yourself out of stuff (something that can be done in most cases by adding some if-then logic to when quests start.). Most of Legend of Mana’s failings come from the actual mechanical game all the good stuff is strapped to- it’s either a good game in spite of itself or one of the best bad games carried entirely by everything that doesn’t involve you touching the controller.

Revamp the combat, rework the various creation systems to not be arcane FAQ bullshit while also making them actually useful for... anything because combat can be won with stock equipment and no abilities with zero effort. Make 2P not a colossal goddamn afterthought.

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.
I thought the Mana series was it's own thing, but is it actually a sub-series in the Final Fantasy franchise?

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Mraagvpeine posted:

I thought the Mana series was it's own thing, but is it actually a sub-series in the Final Fantasy franchise?

It's its own series now, but the first game was a FF spin off. Japanese title was Seiken Densetsu: Final Fantasy Gaiden.

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
In America, of course, it's Final Fantasy Adventure, while in Europe it was Mystic Quest, not to be confused with Mystic Quest Legend, which is what they named Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in Europe, while Japan got Final Fantasy USA Mystic Quest.

Big Bizness
Jun 19, 2019

Mega64 posted:

In America, of course, it's Final Fantasy Adventure, while in Europe it was Mystic Quest, not to be confused with Mystic Quest Legend, which is what they named Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in Europe, while Japan got Final Fantasy USA Mystic Quest.

Final Fantasy 3: Mystic Quest

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Mr. Locke posted:

I’m not saying I want anything from the structure changed, outside dealing with how easy it is to lock yourself out of stuff (something that can be done in most cases by adding some if-then logic to when quests start.). Most of Legend of Mana’s failings come from the actual mechanical game all the good stuff is strapped to- it’s either a good game in spite of itself or one of the best bad games carried entirely by everything that doesn’t involve you touching the controller.

Revamp the combat, rework the various creation systems to not be arcane FAQ bullshit while also making them actually useful for... anything because combat can be won with stock equipment and no abilities with zero effort. Make 2P not a colossal goddamn afterthought.

the entire basic premise was that you'd get a different story every time so locking yourself into certain things was never gonna be changed

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
That would work better if it was easy to lock yourself into the Jumi path or the Dragon path, rather than having like three minor quests you can lock yourself out of by not following a land placement guide.

That said Legend of Mana is super charming and I am totally down for a remake.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
Legend of Mana had beautiful graphics, amazing settings and excellent music. The weird storyline, convoluted crafting, and mostly simple combat really detracted from it though.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Dell_Zincht posted:

I know it's not a Final Fantasy game, but i'm about to play Legend of Mana for the very first time, is there anything I should know - tips, tricks, missable things, that sort of thing?

legend of mana has the most amazing blacksmithing system ever devised:

quote:

Basically, the invisible slot represents the item that you are tempering at the
present time. In essence, it's not a real Mystic Card, but you might want to
find out what card it represents. To make a long story short, raw materials
have properties, and Mystic Cards have properties, but these are not always the
same. When you know that something is occupying the invisible slot, you take
into account the properties of the raw material you're tempering. As soon as
the raw item becomes a Mystic Card (and thus, moves in the first visible slot),
you stop taking into account its properties (unless they're permanent, until
manually dispelled), and you start taking into account the properties of the
new card.

For example, if you temper a Holy Water onto a weapon, you gain the power to
push off Pixie cards. However, if you temper a Lilipods following that Holy
Water, the Lilipods take the invisible slot, and the Holy Water becomes a
Cleric card, which has properties that differ from the raw item that created
it. In essence, you lose the ability to push off Pixie cards, but you affect
the weapon's power, and other factors.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Rand Brittain posted:

That would work better if it was easy to lock yourself into the Jumi path or the Dragon path, rather than having like three minor quests you can lock yourself out of by not following a land placement guide.

That said Legend of Mana is super charming and I am totally down for a remake.

iirc the only quest you can lock yourself out of by poor land placement is Shadow Thief Zero and possibly the one where you help Miss Yuka hatch her kid. The Jumi story is the only main quest you can hard lock yourself out of if you accidentally do a quest later in the chain before meeting Lady Blackpearl.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
stop remaking things

the only reason the romancing saga 3 remake is acceptable is that it wasn't in english before and that benefit is worth the cost of making it less than it was

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

corn in the bible posted:

stop remaking things

the only reason the romancing saga 3 remake is acceptable is that it wasn't in english before and that benefit is worth the cost of making it less than it was

Remember how Hollywood was just remaking every movie from the 80s? Well guess whats coming to the games industry?

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Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

AngryRobotsInc posted:

B..buh...censorship....SJWs!

That's basically what it comes down to for like...95% of the people complaining about Tifa's breasts in FFVIIR. The other 5% are more upfront with "I just like big tits".

Repping the 5%, not ashamed to admit it. I'm fine with Tifa's design though, and the sports bra thing should have been obvious given her fighting style as well as the undershirt thing that is clearly visible. No need for anyone to flip the gently caress out.

I'm holding on to my 'flip out energy' for more important things, like when/if they start revealing they hosed around with plot/characterization stuff. I'm still not convinced they aren't dumping in Compilation poo poo into this Remake.

Honestly, the only thing that bowled me over with that interview is that Square apparently has an ethics department that they consult for poo poo like this. Like someone else mentioned, where the hell were these ethics people when Cidney was getting the green light? How long have they been a thing at Square? Were they around to give the okay for Rikku in X-2? So many questions I now have about this mysterious group.

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