Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

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shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

The Kaworu episode is my next to watch but so far, as someone who's only seen this show once 10 years ago, I like the new translation and dub. The hosed up motivations of all the adult characters, relationship between SEELE and NERV, and circles within circles within circles of everyone's private agendas all make much more sense to me now.

The only thing that sticks out as a little grating is the constant "miss misato" formality, "third children" is fine.

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 23, 2019

# ? Jun 23, 2019 15:48

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# ? May 8, 2024 17:43

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I mean I don�t think watching the old show actually matters for the translation, even if people are obviously gonna compare the two. It�s bad in comparison to really most modern dubs

# ? Jun 23, 2019 15:57

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

oh my god i thought you guys were kidding

like "lukewarm" was a joke about how they toned down Kaworu's line

# ? Jun 23, 2019 16:02

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

An account of 3.0s screening I found in a different thread.

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

So there's actually a reason the translation is so hyper literal and stilted! I was actually there in Baltimore to witness the instigating moment for this, so, story time.

A bit of background for those unaware: there is an ostensible remake film series of Evangelion called Rebuild of Evangelion, that starts out fairly beat for beat but diverged more and more, so far culminating in the third film, which bears zero resemblance to the original work in any way and is more or less an original work with the same characters.

The third film, 3.0, also features Kaworu, the gray haired anime boy in those tweets, far more prominently than he ever was in Evangelion, where he's essentially a deuteragonist of the story with Shinji. 3.0 also extremely amps up the romantic overtones of their relationship to almost blatant heights, with one of the motifs in the film being Kaworu literally teaching Shinji how to play a duet on piano as part of a way to get to know each other.

So fast forward to Baltimore, 2013. 3.0 has been out in Japan for a couple months. Funimation has been working on the dub, and they're going to screen it in America at Otakon, one of the biggest anime conventions in America, in their biggest exhibit hall, which fits several hundred people. This was, as far as I know, the American Premiere, a full six months before it hit actual theaters. There is a massive amount of hype for this, because as I said, 3.0 was completely divorced from the original series and the rumors about it had completely reinvigorated the fandom to a fever loving pitch, so the room is packed to the loving gills, at full capacity. Some people come out, they intro the film, and the lights drop and it plays.

And what follows is a loving disaster.

So, I like 3.0. It's a movie that's willing to go completely loving batshit, and it more or less threw out every scrap of existing canon it possibly could in one of the most active attempts at audience antagonization it possibly could. But that's the problem, it actively antagonizes the audience. It starts with a twenty year time skip and all the characters berating Shinji, and refuses to explain anything for almost an hour of its run time. And the crowd loving loses it. There's cheering, there's laughter, there's groans, people shout "what the gently caress?" to massive applause. Most of the people in that room were watching it for the first time, and they were getting the both barrels treatment, so there was an extremely high level of energy for a movie screening.

So we get to the end of the first act, and Kaworu comes into the film for the first time, and this is where the wheels really come off the bus. Because funimation, at its core, still has a bit of the "by fans for fans" ethos going on, it's staff were all anime nerds, and shipping Kaworu and Shinji is one of the old classic ships of anime fandom. They'd been handed an official work from the original creator of Evangelion where the subtext of their relationship had been amped almost to text, so what did they do? They took the localization and pushed it even father. Every implication and hint is amplified, every joking line is uppsd to a full double entendre, and every double entendre is upgraded to full on flirting dialogue.

The crowd, being almost a thousand-strong people who were not only big enough nerds to go to a con but big enough to go to a movie screening AT a con, see this and essentially lose their loving mind.

From this point on, you could barely hear the actual movie, because people were cracking up at every single line, cheering every action, and just going completely nuts. Just a loving madhouse of hooting anime nerds. It continues like that mostly through to the end, people cheer, people leave, we all put the movie out of our minds and go get drunk as you do at anime cons, everything's right with the world, etc. Etc.

Except it isn't.

As the months go by, 3.0 has a slow rollout, leaves theaters, and news slows down. The first home release date in america blows by, no release. Second one blows by, no release. People start asking questions and answers are really cryptic. People are wondering, why the gently caress isn't it out on blu ray yet, Japan has had it for almost a year now.

After a few leaks and a public announcement comes out, a picture starts to form. Funimation is delaying the release because they're working directly with Khara to ensure "a better translation," and as such, are retranslating and redubbing the entire movie, from scratch.. Because it turns out, there was somebody actually from Khara itself at the screening at Otakon, and witnessing the crowd reaction had mortified them. The film was supposed to be taken seriously, you see; and witnessing an entire room losing their loving mind with laughter at what was supposed to be a serious film had set off every alarm bell in this person's head. I don't know if anyone tried to explain to them that Americans generally react more animatedly at the movies, or that the crowd at that particular showing was a unique experience, but if they did it didn't work; Khara latched on to the liberties taken with the localization as the reason, decided that people didn't take the movie seriously because the translation wasn't precise enough, that enough care wasn't taken with their project and changes had to be made.

Khara brought in their own translators and took a direct hand in the new dub of 3.0, and had to approve every single line, every single delivery, every single change. Funimation tried to push back but could get zero ground, and almost all the localization was stripped out in favor of a dry, clinical direct translation. The home release of 3.0 in the west eventually didn't land until 2016, a full three years after the movie came out, because of this.

Ever since, khara has been extremely hands on with any and all translation of their work, which includes the Netflix dub. This has the same translation team Khara brought on for the 3.0 dub, and it's full of absolutely bizarre choices that make no sense in English, like referring to the (singular) character of Shinji Ikari as "the first children" and cutting out all of the memorable adlibs from the first dub.

What's actually happening here with Kaworu is that in the original Japanese episodes, all of his lines have a large amount of ambiguity that you can't really translate directly into English. This is where localization is extremely important - you need to look at the context of his character and decide which choice makes more sense. But since khara doesn't trust localizers anymore, they mandated a translation that maximizes ambiguity at the cost of not sounding like anything an English speaker would ever say.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 16:13

ConanThe3rd: Mar 27, 2009

Gonna have to be honest, if I went into 3.0 blind in a packed audience of people going blind into it I'd be trying to get the crowd to sing "He tried to kill me with a forklift" by the halfway mark too.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 16:23

Thuryl: Mar 14, 2007; My postillion has been struck by lightning.

BiggestOrangeTree posted:

He said I was worthy of warmth.

Is there a good way to play any of these weird Eva video games in English on a PC?

There's apparently an English patch for Shinji Ikari Raising Project, the game where you can date Kaworu, although I can't help you as far as getting an actual copy of the game and getting it running goes:

https://twitter.com/scenik8/status/1101621371656781824

It translates everything except for the UI features, which usually have enough icons or English text that you can puzzle out what they do.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 16:25

Sit on my Jace: Sep 9, 2016

I'm actually trying to figure out when the actual first official American screening of 3.0 was, a press release from 2013 Japan Film Festival of San Francisco claims their screening on July 27th as the "exclusive U.S. premiere" but I dispute that, as I watched it at Fanime that year a full two months earlier. I even dug out the printed schedule from that year to confirm that it was indeed shown then. I don't know of any screenings before than that are attested to, but I'm not ruling out the possibility.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 16:31

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Otakons program called theirs a premiere too, and that was in August. It's a bit of a grayer area than I recollected, but the story of "khara rep at an American showing gets spooked by American reaction" has been around for years and while it's never been directly confirmed, poo poo that various production people have said line up way too well, like Tiffany Grant mentioning that the second dub was extremely tightly supervised by Khara and mandated a bunch of weird poo poo.

Also, fun times, here's footage from a different showing of the 3.0 dub to see how people were acting:

https://youtu.be/t-T0RZVB0mc

Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 23, 2019

# ? Jun 23, 2019 17:28

Vinylshadow: Mar 20, 2017

SHISHKABOB posted:

This thread kicks rear end:

https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1004504262389297152

The people that built the Geofront really, really, really loved doors, didn't they?

# ? Jun 23, 2019 18:22

Kosume Shezaki: Feb 23, 2006

Thuryl posted:

There's apparently an English patch for Shinji Ikari Raising Project, the game where you can date Kaworu, although I can't help you as far as getting an actual copy of the game and getting it running goes:

https://twitter.com/scenik8/status/1101621371656781824

It translates everything except for the UI features, which usually have enough icons or English text that you can puzzle out what they do.

Interesting bit from their twitter on the handling of the shinji asuka scene in eoe

https://twitter.com/scenik8/status/1142714909630717952?s=19

# ? Jun 23, 2019 18:30

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

https://youtu.be/_0Qr9rztRw4

So it turns out that you can get one of the Hello Kitty x NGE toasters for ~$60 on eBay. Good idea or best idea?

# ? Jun 23, 2019 19:22

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

a kitten posted:

An account of 3.0s screening I found in a different thread.

Im not saying it�s a lie but I think they might be mixing up some details. The 2013 screening was subtitled according to a friend who were there. I think the dub screenings started 2014?

# ? Jun 23, 2019 20:23

Zeruel: Mar 27, 2010; Alert: bad post spotted.

Xander B Coolridge posted:

It's even more awkward than that. It's more like

*shot of their feet in water*

"The water is lukewarm."
"Agreed"

It's really loving bad

Why would Fuyutsuki be describing the water temperature :supaburn:

agrhahaggshh

# ? Jun 23, 2019 21:26

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Steve Yun posted:

Im not saying it�s a lie but I think they might be mixing up some details. The 2013 screening was subtitled according to a friend who were there. I think the dub screenings started 2014?

I admittedly may be going crazy, but I didn't go to any other conventions that year and I absolutely remember 3.0 being dubbed when I saw it at otakon, and I definitely didn't go to see it during the regular theatrical run because I was a full time college student with no money for it during the winter 2014 season.

Either way, while my particular experiences may be misremembered, people have since dug up footage of what seems to be the NYCC showing that year, which was an identical crowd reaction that I remember from when I saw it and was definitely the dub, as well as being in the right time table to also have been the cause.

E: also, Otakon does have a tendency to do some double showings of movies, one subbed and once dubbed, so it's possible that the main event was dubbed and your friend is remembering a different subbed screening the same weekend.

Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jun 23, 2019

# ? Jun 23, 2019 21:32

Arkhams Razor: Jun 10, 2009

Wikipedia claims that the Otakon showing was subbed, and NYCC was the dub premiere. However, both of those were only two weeks apart, so whatever subs they were showing were almost certainly indistinguishable from what they used for the dub.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 21:45

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

cant believe the rowdiness of americans meant we weren't worthy of studio khara's grace

# ? Jun 23, 2019 22:32

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

The screening location might be misremembered, but I�m willing to believe the gist of that story. Hell, I want to, because it�s hilarious.

My friend tells me Japanese movie watching culture discourages making any noise, to the point that she had to stifle her screams while watching Stephen King�s It there. So it makes me laugh that Japanese execs were here and freaked out about American audiences laughing at their movie�s translation.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 22:41

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Blaziken386 posted:

cant believe the rowdiness of americans meant we weren't worthy of studio khara's grace

I was in the Otakon screening and the crowd was disgraceful even by anime con standards.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 22:42

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Steve Yun posted:

The screening location might be misremembered, but I�m willing to believe the gist of that story. Hell, I want to, because it�s hilarious.

My friend tells me Japanese movie watching culture discourages making any noise, to the point that she had to stifle her screams while watching Stephen King�s It there. So it makes me laugh that Japanese execs were here and freaked out about American audiences laughing at their movie�s translation.

Get Anno to a movie premiere screening of a Madea flick

# ? Jun 23, 2019 23:04

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

How dare they disgrace the sacred movie watching experience

# ? Jun 23, 2019 23:13

Charlatan Eschaton: Feb 23, 2018

How's their german in episode 8?

# ? Jun 23, 2019 23:16

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Midjack posted:

I was in the Otakon screening and the crowd was disgraceful even by anime con standards.

Anime Con crowds are a mix of people drunk off their asses, supernerds that are trying to take in every molecule of the experience imaginable, regular interested folks and half-asleep dweebs so I'm not surprised it became a fever dream experience.

I had a great experience watching the Gurren Lagan films because everyone in there was 100% in for the ride... but as an outsider, having 600-odd weirdos point to the heavens during a pivotal Hot Blooded Victory moment was interesting.

# ? Jun 23, 2019 23:37

SHISHKABOB: Nov 30, 2012; Fun Shoe

CharlestheHammer posted:

How dare they disgrace the sacred movie watching experience

This but unironically.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:18

Escobarbarian: Jun 18, 2004; Grimey Drawer

Hello anime forum I am a guy watching this show for the first time because Netflix. I liked the first half but 14-16 (last one I�ve seen so far) is absolutely that good good I�ve been waiting for hot drat

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:23

SHISHKABOB: Nov 30, 2012; Fun Shoe

Yeah it really just keeps getting better, IMO.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:45

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Escobarbarian posted:

Hello anime forum I am a guy watching this show for the first time because Netflix. I liked the first half but 14-16 (last one I�ve seen so far) is absolutely that good good I�ve been waiting for hot drat

I'm at the same place right now and same
also, since you're watching it on netflix: according to some people in this thread, an important part of episode 15 was cut because Fly Me To The Moon was playing in the background, so you may want to go find and watch that?

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:47

Expect My Mom: Nov 18, 2013; by Smythe

Evangelion: It's Good

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:47

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

Expect My Mom posted:

Evangelion: It's Hot

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:54

Escobarbarian: Jun 18, 2004; Grimey Drawer

Blaziken386 posted:

I'm at the same place right now and same
also, since you're watching it on netflix: according to some people in this thread, an important part of episode 15 was cut because Fly Me To The Moon was playing in the background, so you may want to go find and watch that?

I read someone say that on twitter and then someone replied saying they actually just changed the music, so I�ll investigate further

# ? Jun 24, 2019 00:55

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

quick question: does anyone else find themselves unable to not sing along to Cruel Angel's Thesis
it's such a good OP, and the words are easy to pronounce, I can't help myself

Escobarbarian posted:

I read someone say that on twitter and then someone replied saying they actually just changed the music, so I�ll investigate further

if you saw misato cry-yelling about her insecurities while walking home with kaji, that's the scene in question

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:03

Escobarbarian: Jun 18, 2004; Grimey Drawer

Yep, that scene�s in the Netflix version.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:08

ChaosArgate: Oct 10, 2012; Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

Blaziken386 posted:

quick question: does anyone else find themselves unable to not sing along to Cruel Angel's Thesis
it's such a good OP, and the words are easy to pronounce, I can't help myself

That song is probably one of the greatest OPs ever created, even to this day, so yeah I�m not sure who doesn�t have that �problem.� :v:

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:08

Srice: Sep 11, 2011

Steve Yun posted:

The screening location might be misremembered, but I’m willing to believe the gist of that story. Hell, I want to, because it’s hilarious.

My friend tells me Japanese movie watching culture discourages making any noise, to the point that she had to stifle her screams while watching Stephen King’s It there. So it makes me laugh that Japanese execs were here and freaked out about American audiences laughing at their movie’s translation.

Dang..wish I could watch anime movies in Japan 'cause that sounds great to me.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:14

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

ChaosArgate posted:

That song is probably one of the greatest OPs ever created, even to this day, so yeah I’m not sure who doesn’t have that “problem.”

The mark of that intro's greatness is how well it lends itself to parody. Absolutely iconic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJdgErAfiRQ

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:17

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

fact: adorable brats are adorable

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:26

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Srice posted:

Dang..wish I could watch anime movies in Japan 'cause that sounds great to me.

On one hand, imagine the dirty looks you�ll get if you ever have the temerity, the chutzpah to cough or clear your throat during a movie

On the other hand every classical music YouTube I�ve seen recorded with a Japanese audience has never had so much as a sniffle

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:46

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

Blaziken386 posted:

quick question: does anyone else find themselves unable to not sing along to Cruel Angel's Thesis
it's such a good OP, and the words are easy to pronounce, I can't help myself

It's one of the most memorable and iconic (along with the ED) that there's ever been.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:49

Kosume Shezaki: Feb 23, 2006

Blaziken386 posted:

I'm at the same place right now and same
also, since you're watching it on netflix: according to some people in this thread, an important part of episode 15 was cut because Fly Me To The Moon was playing in the background, so you may want to go find and watch that?

That's about where the series will either click or not. I have a friend who enjoyed it well enough as a post apocalyptic sci-fi but the psychological elements just did not do anything for him

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:51

a kitten: Aug 5, 2006

Steve Yun posted:

On the other hand every classical music YouTube I’ve seen recorded with a Japanese audience has never had so much as a sniffle

Ages ago I bought a CD of Beethoven's 9th and the recording had someone faintly coughing sporadically throughout the whole thing.

Anyway, I should track down some music from this show, at the very least it's ridiculous I don't have Cruel Angel's Thesis in my collection.

# ? Jun 24, 2019 01:53

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# ? May 8, 2024 17:43

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

a kitten posted:

An account of 3.0s screening I found in a different thread.

As someone who just saw 3.33 two hours ago after owning the blu-ray since launch, this dissapoints me. The dub was fine, but I wish we got this one instead now.

Good film, by the way.

I don't know what the complaints are about. I thought it was pretty good. My only complaint is the movie doesn't really explain enough. The previous films were okay cuz we already knew the story. This changes so much. It's basically an original story now. And there's so many details that cannot be fit into an hour and a half. I kind of wish it was a TV series so it can get enough time to explain. This is a series that needs time to explain it poo poo because there's just too much going on to follow if you don't give the viewer enough time. I mean, I got the basic gist of everything, but little bits and details that I wish I knew more about were not explained. And I know that's the modus operandi of the creators, but still.

Everything kind of felt compressed and I wish more happened. Because my big feeling at the end of it was I wanted more. And the benefit of the TV show is you have a lot. 26 episodes is a lot of content. And then you have the manga and everything else. But having this big awesome stuff happening in an hour and 35 minutes is strangely unfiling.

All that said, I was still thoroughly entertained. But when the copyright 2012 came up I loving feaked out. Because it's 2019 and the sequel is not out yet and this means that the first movie came out before I was even in college. Because I graduated HS in 2011. And 1.0 came out in 2007. This has been running since before Obama!

I believe 3.0+1.0 probably will be released in 2020. Its the best time to release it. With the Olympics hype, he can certainly make himself a lot of money. For those who don't know, I heard there was some cross-promotional deals with Eva. I could be wrong. Though I think the series makes more off merchandising. The pachinko machines are probably the big money winners, from what I understand.

Also, apparently my holiday edition Evangelion boxset is worth 500 USD and my Rebirth and End of Eva dvds are also worth bank. I bought them for $20 each with my allowance in middle shool.

Covok fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 24, 2019

# ? Jun 24, 2019 02:06

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Neon Genesis Evangelion megathread: Death & Rebirth of the author

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