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pentyne posted:"your brother, whatever happened there..." "WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?!?" crispix posted:Still watching along with Jersulaem's posts. Season 6.5 or whatever it's called is the worst in this regard. All sorts of poo poo seems extraneous, tacked on and sort of comes out of nowhere. Tony's sudden "severe gambling problem", his long lost never before mentioned cousin (who just so happens to played by a famous and well respected actor), Christopher's "Cleaver" movie, Vito's tonally weird outing and all the Johnny Cakes stuff, Carm's real estate ventures... I'm probably even forgetting a few things. It was still good but the drop off in quality and, most especially, focus was fairly noticeable. There were 5 or 6 episodes that seemed to be buying time and read almost like a side story.
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Jun 22, 2019 21:55
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BiggerBoat posted:Season 6.5 or whatever it's called is the worst in this regard. Meadow and Finn's argument over the suitcase 
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Jun 22, 2019 22:20
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pentyne posted:"your brother, whatever happened there..." Tony's "Alright then!" right there is one of the funniest moments of the show.
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Jun 22, 2019 22:26
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crispix posted:Meadow and Finn's argument over the suitcase One of the most realistic scenes ever put on film.
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Jun 22, 2019 22:38
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pentyne posted:"your brother, whatever happened there..." in a series replete with people, in the words of Junior, "sharp as a loving cue ball," is Carmine Jr. the dumbest? It's not something I bring up lightly. I realize we could be at the precipice of an enormous crossroad.
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Jun 22, 2019 23:29
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crispix posted:Meadow and Finn's argument over the suitcase I absolutely adore this scene though I can understand why people hate it so much. It's two angry young people trying really, really, really hard to be "adult" and reasonably discuss things when what they really want to do is scream at each other, and it is loving hilarious that the upshot of their "mature" talk is to giddily call their parents and declare,"WE'RE GETTING MARRIED!  "
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Jun 23, 2019 00:04
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Dawgstar posted:in a series replete with people, in the words of Junior, "sharp as a loving cue ball," is Carmine Jr. the dumbest? It's not something I bring up lightly. I realize we could be at the precipice of an enormous crossroad. The writing for that character was so on the nose I'm inclined to believe it was based on a real person the writers knew. The favored son, the grandstanding persona, the constant attempt to use 3 syllable words, the loving boat and then of course that thing with his cousin Lorraine.
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Jun 23, 2019 00:21
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What I love about Carmine is that he's the butt of jokes for so long and then one episode he sits down with Tony and in his beautiful, stupid way explains the story of how one day he came home late and didn't follow his normal routine and his wife freaked out thinking he was dead.... and he just right then and there decided to put all ambition and desire for the top spot aside and just live happily with what he's got because he didn't want his wife to be upset. That "dummy" comes to a reasoned, sensible and unselfish understanding about life in general that is seemingly beyond all the smart guys and great leaders etc.
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 00:31
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I definitely think Carmine jr was an inept mobster, but capable person; unlike Jackie jr who was just inept all around.
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Jun 23, 2019 00:48
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Season 3, Episode 10 - ...To Save Us All from Satan's PowerPaulie Gualtieri posted:The world don't run on love. As Christmas nears, Tony heads down to the Asbury Park boardwalk, waiting to meet Paulie before heading to the boatyard to presumably get work done on the Stugots. As he stands looking out over the beach and the ocean, his mind unavoidably drifts to Pussy Bonpensiero: this is the location of the dream he had when he finally firmly accepted his subconscious belief that Pussy was a rat. But he doesn't think specifically of the dream or Pussy's death, but rather to another Christmas several years earlier in Asbury Park: 1995. Jackie Aprile was still alive, Tony had a full head of hair and OJ Simpson had just been acquitted of the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. Jackie and Tony sit in a diner discussing the acquittal, joking about Simpson's punishment being getting shunned on the golf course. They welcome Pussy, who has returned from Boca by plane and is complaining that the cheap seat he bought seems to have hurt his back, apparently the source of the major back issues that would plague him until his death. He was in Boca to meet with Junior Soprano, and it appears that even back then he was causing all manner of strife due to his rage at being passed over for Boss in favor of Jackie when Old Man DiMeo went to prison. He allowed his guys to hijack one of Jackie's trucks, and now they're all trying to resolve the situation as peacefully as possible. Remember in season one Junior's utter fury at Christopher hijacking one of HIS trucks? A good reminder that the "rules" of the mafia basically exist only so long as they are convenient. They take a wander down the boardwalk after Jackie warns Pussy about saying too much inside. Junior has agreed to a sit-down with Jackie only if Tony will guarantee his safety. They're tolerant of Junior but only to a point, Jackie doesn't want to have to go to war with him but he also isn't going to hold any truck with Junior being upset that the kid who used to bring him his drinks is now the Boss. They agree to arrange the sit-down over Christmas so Pussy will have an excuse not to go on an expensive cruise that Angie has booked for them, and Pussy warns Jackie to make sure Jackie Jr goes to a State College since his eldest daughter's fees for Villanova are killing him, especially with his two sons soon to follow. Jackie, who has arranged to stay at home over Christmas so his son can be tutored for his SATs, reminds him that if he has money issues he can come to him for help, and Tony adds in another friendly warning: stop selling heroin, it's far too risky. Pussy simply nods, even though his future is already mapped out irrevocably. Pussy looks out over the sea and comments that he always wanted a house by the ocean... maybe in a future life.   Back in the present (we can assume it is December 2000, given what will happen in September of 2001) Tony stares out at the ocean that has become the final "home" of Pussy, and is joined by Paulie. He tells Paulie he was just thinking of their "former friend" and Paulie is immediately on the defensive, proclaiming that he NEVER thinks of that "rat gently caress". Tony says that he should have seen the problems with Pussy coming back in 1995, Paulie remembering the trouble at the time between Junior and Jackie but again insisting that Tony not waste any more time thinking about Pussy. He assures Tony that if he had the chance, he would kill him all over again without hesitation. It's demonstrative, probably more a showy display of loyalty to Tony than anything else, but I think there's also something to be said for Paulie NEEDING to believe this himself: that the murder of one of his best friends was not only justified but laudable. Otherwise, how the gently caress do you live with yourself? The reason for their meeting is a beef that Paulie is having with Ralphie. Tommy Angeletti has a re-bar contract for the Esplanade revitalization project AND he owes Paulie 100k in gambling debts. The trouble is that Ralphie is holding up the contractor for more money, meaning Angeletti has to wait for the strike that Ralphie organized to be settled before he can get his own cashflow coming in, meaning that Paulie is having to wait to get his own money back. Tony has listened, but he is less than sympathetic: Paulie's 100k pales in comparison to the millions of dollars they are going to have flooding in from their various Esplanade dealings. Paulie figured that would be the case, but the point he is trying to make is that Ralphie could help him out in the meantime by passing a couple of no-show electrician jobs his way so Paulie is getting something out of the Esplanade too, since the Esplanade is now screwing with his other money-making schemes. Tony can't deny that, and agrees that he'll talk with Ralphie about it. Having returned home from Asbury, the next morning Tony wakes as Carmela is busily going about her work and checks his Christmas errands list: he has dealt with the boat, he still needs to "transfer Cannolis", get Carmela's gift and a scooter for Meadow. He sits up, but as he does he feels the old familiar shortness of breath and fuzziness in the head, and drops back into the bed where he sucks in breath and tries to keep from devolving into a full-on panic attack. Carmela re-enters the room and starts going over the errands he needs to know, while he tries to breathe and not let on what is happening to him (life would be a lot easier if he was just open with Carmela). He is sufficiently recovered though to become first irritated and then enraged by news about Janice. She has decided out of nowhere that she must cook a goose for Christmas dinner, and has "volunteered" Carmela to come over and help make a lasagna on top of all the work Carmela is already doing preparing for Christmas... plus she wants Tony to go over with her to fix the fusebox in the basement, the one that Tony was screaming at her about over the phone in an earlier episode. Once Carmela is gone though he takes a moment to consider his barely avoided panic attack and what could have caused it. This is the subject of discussion in therapy later with Melfi. He laments that he was happy and things were going good and yet despite that all of a sudden he is back to square one. He admits that he isn't taking his medication every day and she can't resist a very mom-like,"Is that what the prescription says?", which just makes him sullen about being saddled with another thing to feel bad about (then loving do what you're supposed to do!  ). She doesn't put all the blame on the medication, asking him to explain the events that lead up to his near-attack, and admits that Christmas is a very stressful time. She is clearly in a slightly festive mood herself, cracking jokes, being less formal than normal, but catches herself and, with a sigh (is she fed up with work in general or just aware that Tony will at best go through the motions before half-assing the solutions she keeps offering him, then blaming her when they don't "work"?) has him run through everything leading up to the attack. He talks about going to the shore and admits it brought up thoughts about 1995, but he can't go into any further detail beyond this involved a friend of his who he discovered was working for the Federal Government. All her jokes and humor falls away now as she runs headfirst into a brick wall reminder once again that she is willingly treating a criminal and a murderer.  At the former home of Livia Soprano, Janice and Aaron are strangling music as they work on an awful Christian Rock song together, with Janice on guitar and Aaron on the keyboard. He thinks their lyrics are "mother-jumping" but she is worried that it sounds like they're singing a song about cleaning products with their lines about Jesus' blood cleaning stains. A thumping at the door gets her attention, and she lets Carmela and Tony (who apparently haven't got copies of the new key yet) in as Aaron falls victim to his narcolepsy and falls asleep, spilling his soda to the floor. Carmela takes the groceries into the kitchen as Janice races to clean up the spilled soda, while Tony looks around his mother's once pristine house now with garbage piled up everywhere and growls that he won't be coming here on Christmas if the place isn't cleaned up. Janice, wearing a wrist-brace, complains that her wrist is still badly hurt from the attack by the Russians and her painkillers aren't doing anything. Carmela simply sighs and asks for rubber gloves so she can clean up and they can get started on the stock. Tony, still sulking, stops Janice as she goes by, asking about the wrist: didn't the doctors say it was just a sprain? Janice, who had already been getting workers' comp for carpal tunnel syndrome, insists that there is some kind of nerve damage and she may need an operation. Tony considers that, walking after her and asking as she cleans up the stain if this really all stemmed from the Russians. It did, but she says at least it lead her to Jesus. Tony has had enough of that too, pointing out that she never goes to prayer meetings anymore, and - with Aaron asleep - she freely admits that yeah okay it turns out that religion didn't really stick with her after all and she and Aaron aren't even sleeping together anymore (he can't drink wine but sex out of wedlock is fine?)... but Christian Contemporary Music is the fastest growing marketing sector in music business today! This at least Tony can understand, and certainly understand as more true to his sister's nature: she's found what she thinks is a scam to make money while also fulfilling her artistic/creative outlets. Aaron wakes up and Carmela calls Janice back into the kitchen, and wearily Tony pulls out his list of errands and adds one more: Janice's Russian.   At Satriale's, Hesh joins Silvio and Christopher in the back room to unload a tattered old cardboard box full of Christmas decorations. Silvio lets out a low,"Oh Jesus" as he spots something in the bottom of the box, and displays a Santa suit to the others: it is the suit that Pussy wore every year at the big Christmas giveaway of presents for local kids. Tony and Paulie arrive with Raymond Curto, and when Silvio shows Tony the suit he tells them to burn it. Paulie, who had insisted to Tony he never spared a second thought for Pussy post-murder, happily talks about Tony's recent memory of 1995, agitating Tony who wants to think about anything else. Raymond, who of course is an FBI informant himself, takes the opportunity though to share his disgust for Pussy being a rat and saying he wishes he'd been there on the hit, a mindset that Christopher - NOT an FBI informant - shares. Whether Raymond is just overcompensating or if he is wired for sound and trying to get them on tape discussing the murder, the silence of the other three (and Hesh) does not count as an admission of guilt or even knowledge of what happened to Pussy. Tony tells them to put up the decorations but Silvio notes that they still are going to need somebody new to play Santa.... and EVERYBODY turns to look at Tony. He dismisses the idea out of hand, but Hesh notes it would be fitting, and gives the background of the annual giveaway. This tradition was started by Johnny Boy Soprano, a way to cheer up the neighborhood after everybody was sad when Old Man Satriale blew his brains out in depression after Johnny Boy Soprano busted out his pork shop. Imagine that for a second, it is either a lack of self-awareness or a complete contempt for everybody, but Johnny Boy gave away presents to kids in the back room of a store he had forcibly taken control of, to make everybody get over the fact the store's actual owner committed suicide because of Johnny Boy Soprano... taking over his store! Silvio's line that the sadness on the block was "nothing a Christmas ham couldn't fix" sums it up pretty well: they buy their happiness/acceptance. Tony moves on to the next item on his list: transferring Cannolis. He goes to a social club operated by the Russian Mafia, empty during the day aside from the bartender and a big Russian named Valery who is clearly some sort of enforcer, sitting at the bar reading a newspaper and drinking what is even more clearly not his first drink of the day. He greets Tony warmly but with an undercurrent of sarcasm, inviting him to drink with him, but Tony is looking for his Boss, Slava. He heads further into the hall where he greets Slava, whose warmth seems genuine. As they meet, Valery staggers over and asks if they want some food, and when Slava declines he mockingly declares they are doing something "high level", makes a loud stage "shhhh" and theatrically creeps backwards to the bar. Tony is amused, he's started Christmas early? Slava, also amused, jokes that Tony doesn't know the half of it: Russian Christmas starts in mid-January! In the back room, they get down to business. Tony has brought 250k of his own personal money, Slava's job is to launder it for him through different banks so the money comes back to Tony (less various charges, including Slava's own, of course) as completely legitimate and untouchable money. That's the pleasant part out of the way, Tony accepting an offered cigar and Slava thanking him for the Escalante he sourced for Slava's wife (or girlfriend). But now Tony is after advice, he is looking for a cousin of Svetlana's (everybody knows Svetlana, of course) but he doesn't want Svetlana to know he is looking. He knows he drives a livery cab but that is all the details he has, other than the fact that he wasn't "very nice" to somebody important to Tony. Slava is all seriousness now, telling him that Tony need not worry, he will find this guy and kick the poo poo out of him for him (or more likely, Valery will), but Tony doesn't want that. This is personal, he wants Slava to find the guy but he will handle everything from that point forward. With that he leaves, ticking two more things off of his list: he has transferred the "cannolis" and he is taking care of Janice's Russian.   At the Bada Bing, Silvio becomes enraged and shuts down the music when he discovers an entire wedge of Jarlsberg from behind the bar has gone missing. He rants at the topless strippers in the quiet club, who let him know that Debbie's French brie also went missing the other day.... there's a cheese thief in the Bada Bing! Silvio quickly rushes to the back, passing a phone off the hook and pulling aside a rack of stripper's outfits to discover his trap has worked: Pussy Bonpensiero has been caught in the giant rat-trap he set, and is slowly choking to death on his own blood, his neck broken. Silvio wakes up, it was of course all a dream (even a madman like Silvio wouldn't shut down the music at his club to complain about cheese) but Pussy has been inevitably on his mind since he found the Santa suit. He immediately goes to Tony's house, wanting to talk about Pussy, and they head down into the basement where the light isn't working and Tony is irritated that Meadow took away the lamp that used to be here: her unknown Christmas gift to him is that she took away the thing that would have recorded this conversation and revealed Tony and Silvio murdered Pussy. Silvio is at pains to explain that he has no doubt that what they did was the right thing, but what is bugging him is that he didn't see that Pussy was a rat until Tony figured it out and got the confirmation at Pussy's house. Paulie bringing up 95 now has Silvio wondering if they had gotten him even that far back, did they grab him and flip him when he was in Boca? Tony dismisses that idea though, he was only there for 24 hours and Tony knows for a fact he was with Junior the entire time, so Silvio concludes it must have been at the sit-down. Back in 1995, coverage of the aftermath of the OJ Simpson trial continues as Jackie, Tony, Silvio and Paulie wait for Junior to arrive for the sit-down organized by Pussy. Junior arrives, accompanied by Gigi Cestone and Beppy Scerbo, an older crewmember. But when Junior sees Pussy isn't there he immediately turns to leave. Tony stops him, reminding him that HE is here, does he think Tony would let anything happen to his only Uncle? Junior, who 4 years later will attempt to assassinate Tony, agrees he can trust him and joins Jackie at the table. An extremely clumsy camera wipe later, the sit-down is over and Pussy finally arrives, a pissed off Jackie demanding to know where he was. Pussy is full of explanations, perhaps too detailed, he even opens with a worry that maybe they called his house since he'd told Angie that he was with Jackie. It seems his goomar's mother was in hospital all night after suffering a small stroke, and Pussy is in a state because he was up all night consoling his goomar, he didn't eat, he didn't sleep, he-"Did you get laid?" Jackie asks, and when he sheepishly admits that he did it is clear that all is forgiven, everybody laughs, probably relieved because the sit-down went well and Junior has accepted Jackie as the Boss after all. Back in the present, Tony agrees with Silvio that he's probably right, this was when the FBI flipped him. They had him for less than 24 hours before getting him back on the street, not giving him enough time to think and not giving anybody else enough time to start questioning his absence. It seems like a bit of a retcon to suggest that Pussy was really an informant for close to 5 years, but I guess Raymond has been one for at least a couple of years now so maybe it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Tony and Silvio go to dinner that evening, joining Paulie where they discuss the important things to be concerned with at this time of the year: what gifts are they buying for their mistresses to keep them happy while their men spend time with their wives and families? Silvio is getting his straight up money, it is the only thing that shuts her up, while Paulie is getting diamonds from "a Jew in the city" for his (why isn't he spending Christmas with her? He's not married?). Tony however doesn't need to bother, his goomar bought HIM a present: Gloria has gone to Morocco, a trip that she paid for with her OWN money. Paulie and Silvio are impressed and jealous, he gets to bang her AND she goes off by herself when he needs to be with the family AND she pays her own way? She's perfect! Tony admits she is smart and gorgeous, but he himself has to ponder for a second as he declares she is "too good to be true". Somebody else gorgeous has caught their eye though, a "piece of rear end" bending over a nearby table. When she stands and turns around, they're surprised to see it is Charmaine Bucco, who looks absolutely incredible in a form-fitting dress with plenty of cleavage. She spots them staring and walks over, asking how things are going as Paulie makes no pretense about just staring directly at her tits and Tony openly flirts. She smiles, bends over, gives him a big shot of cleavage (it's all he is looking at as she speaks) and tells them... there are a couple of FBI Agents watching them from a nearby table. Startled, they all turn to look and she roars with laughter as she walks away. Suddenly the mood is gone, they were having a nice time objectifying her and she went and rubbed the fact they're criminals in their faces!?! As they sit fuming, she heads into the kitchen where a frazzled Artie accuses her of being a hypocrite: she vilifies Tony behind his back then smiles in his face? Charmaine, who was always strict with Artie, displays that she was also often holding back out of love for him, and now that they're getting divorced she has no problem with pointing out that the only thing keeping customers coming back right now is her because it certainly isn't the quality of his raviolis lately. Food standards have clearly dropped along with Artie's own physical appearance, Charmaine was responsible for a lot more than he ever gave her credit for. He brings food to Tony's table, muttering an apologetic explanation that sometimes there is no option but for him and Charmaine to work the same shift, implying that it brings out the worst in both of them. Silvio complains that her rear end has improved but not her attitude, and Tony has to quietly bring him into line since this is still technically Artie's wife they're talking about (and were all openly ogling a minute earlier). Artie leaves and Sil continues fuming, how dare she not play along with everybody quietly pretending they're not criminal scumbags who she hates having in her restaurant!?! Tony is distracted by a call from Slava however, he has information on Janice's Russian for him: his name is Igor Parnasky and he is a driver for a limo company.   Igor gets a call from a Mr. Valdez, and pulls up where two drunken Italian dudes wearing Santa Hats spill into the back of his car, the lean one with the thick Neapolitan accent is Mr. "Valdez", the great big one who is clearly from America has a face he vaguely recognizes. They drunkenly argue, laughing over which one of them was supposed to be the designated driver, and confirm that they're going to the Airport Ramada. Igor nods and drives off into the night with Tony Soprano and Furio Giunta in the backseat of his limo. Tony returns home later that night, his work done, where a sleepy Carmela is suffering a headache from driving in holiday traffic. She asks if Charmaine was at Vesuvios and seems upset when Tony agrees she looks good now, and he asks if she is disappointed Charmaine didn't fall apart after the breakup (like Artie has). She rolls over, complaining about her headache, but Tony either didn't listen or it doesn't occur to him to be mindful of her pain as he just hops into bed and turns on the TV, complaining to see the perennial holiday favorite It's A Wonderful Life is airing. The next day at Satriale's, Tony joins Silvio, Paulie and Christopher as they continue to make up the Christmas decorations and untangle the lights. They ponder the nature of Santa and Mrs. Claus' relationship: Ddid they get into the gifts because they didn't have kids of their own? Are the elves their kids? Are they running a sweatshop? Paulie even tells the story about how the elves used to go with Santa and give the bad kids a beating. They liken that story to The Grinch, with Christopher noting the recent movie made a huge amount of money. Bobby Baccalieri arrives with a stack of toys from himself and Junior for the party, noting they're unwrapped but this way the kids can see what they are getting. Tony thanks him and asks him to pass his thanks to Junior, but then Silvio taps him on the shoulder and makes him take a closer look at a confused Bobby. Smiles cross all their faces, they've got their new Santa Claus! When Bobby declines, saying he doesn't know how and then admitting he is shy, they all keep smiling as Paulie - NOT smiling - gets in his face and orders him to follow "The Boss of this Family"'s instructions: he's Santa Claus, that's the end of it! At Janice's, the house is now clean (thanks to Carmela) and Aaron is passed out at the kitchen table where he was cutting vegetables, as Janice prepares the goose. The TV on the kitchen counter is doing a story on yet another instance of assault on a livery driver, and she turns in time to see a battered, bloody Igor on the screen, trapped beneath Santa's Sleigh in a display window for Curran's Sporting Goods store. She gasps in recognition of Igor as the man who forced her to give back Svetlana's leg... but also at the realization of who must have done this to Igor and why. She pays no heed to the TV reporting that Igor blamed it on "a marauding youth gang", she knows that Tony did this and that he did it for her, and she wells up with love and gratitude for her Knight in White Satin Armor once more coming to her rescue. She wakes Aaron, telling him that inspiration has struck: they need to play up the brother concept in their music: not quite so much the "he ain't heavy" stuff, but... well, she doesn't know what she wants, but she wants her and Aaron to sit down and try to capture it. Full of wonder (this is how he feels about Jesus) he notes that she is crying, and she is barely able to contain herself, feeling the bond with her often emotionally absent or easily enraged brother stronger than she has since she killed Richie Aprile. Meadow comes home and finds Carmela sitting on the couch drinking wine and drinking in the sight of the gigantic tree in the living room. She says she loves this time of year, either in spite of or because of all the stress and work that goes into putting it together. Meadow agrees, but also quietly grabs a wine glass in the hopes that Carmela won't question it as she joins her on the couch and pours her own glass. She's home early because Hunter is in the city and Jackie is spending the evening with a friend in the hospital, but she doesn't have any details beyond that: it's just somebody from school who "might" have appendicitis. Carmela notes how well Meadow and Jackie are getting on, which makes Meadow smile, but a frown lightly crosses Carmela's face who still isn't entirely convinced about him. But she doesn't press it or ruin the moment, instead she turns her attention back to the tree and the new angel atop it, and she and her daughter just enjoy the rare moment of tranquility together.   At Vesuvio's, Tony joins Christopher and Silvio at the bar, excited to show off the last thing from his list of errands: Carmela's gift. It's a sapphire bracelet, the one she asked about after getting matching earrings for the ring he gave her for her birthday, and it cost 50k (a sum he was adamant he would not give to the college, also more than most Americans at the time were making in a YEAR). They are impressed, of course, and he leaves it with them as he takes his coat to hand in. Charmaine is working the coat check and she isn't happy to see him, and makes no bones about the fact as he compliments how good she looks. Offended, he asks what her problem is, and she takes great delight in telling him. For years she bit her tongue for Artie's sake, smiling and pretending not to be bothered (to their faces) about having him and his "boys" regularly attending the restaurant. Now she and Artie are divorcing and she doesn't have to pretend anymore, she's disgusted by him and especially by the mess they have made of Artie himself. Outraged, he grabs his coat from her and returns to Silvio and Christopher, telling them that they're leaving, he has no interest in staying somewhere where people don't pretend he's a respected member of the community. He doesn't care where they go, so Silvio suggests they check out a new strip club that just opened on 46th, he's been meaning to check out the competition for awhile. It's easy to think of Charmaine as henpecking Artie, to feel sorry for Artie who has such a shrill, nagging wife. As has been shown before, she kind of needs to be that in order to keep his stupidity in check, and while this rudeness to a customer feels unprofessional, really consider it from her point of view. Every day (or nearabouts) Tony or people associated with him barrel into their restaurant, an eyesore and an embarrassment: mobsters/criminals who everybody has to tiptoe around. You can't straight up say they're in the mafia, you have to pretend to laugh at their jokes or their forced friendliness, you are constantly fighting off their attempts to get involved in your business in some peripheral way and make you a front for organized crime etc. Now, with her and Artie breaking up, she feels a freedom to straight up tell Tony to his face she doesn't like him or want him there, and she took it. For Tony, who this episode in particular shows us puts people into situations where they can't just accept him but have to LIKE him, it is a slap in the face and a complete exposure of who he REALLY is, and he doesn't like that. He's all about people just saying what they mean and why is everybody such a pussy etc etc, but what he means is that HE wants to be able to say what he wants, and he wants everybody else to respect and like him and want him around. Not just him, but his whole crew and the preceding generations. Old Man Satriale killed himself because of Johnny Boy, and Johnny Boy turned the dead man's store into an excuse to make the entire neighborhood revere him as a hero and a patron. These are NOT good people. At the club, Funky Drummer Boy plays as strippers in Christmas themed outfits dance topless while Tony, Christopher and Silvio enjoy shots at the bar. As Christopher and Tony enjoy the tits in front of them, Silvio scans around the club taking in the set-up, the decor, what is working and what isn't etc... and his eyes alight on a very troublesome thing. A young man is sitting towards the back on a couch, getting a private lapdance from a stripper. He slaps Tony's shoulder and points it out, the young man is Jackie Aprile Jr. Tony, enraged at Jackie without for a second considering he's doing EXACTLY the same thing, storms over and... smiles. It's when Tony is at his scariest/most threatening, when suddenly all the rage disappears and he's a smiling guy just wanting a chat. This is the last thing that Matt Bevilaqua saw, this is what Jackie Jr is seeing now: this hulking Frankenstein of a man beaming down, meaty paw extended, telling him to get up and take a walk so they can have a "talk". He puts an arm around Jackie's shoulders and leads him towards the bathroom, ignoring his attempts to explain it is a bachelor party for his frat brothers (none of whom are there) and Tony just keeps on walking him till they reach the bathroom, and he explodes physically, flinging Jackie across the room into the wall and then slamming him back against it. Jackie protests that he did nothing and Tony swings him down the length of the bathroom and then punches him in the face before backing up, throwing his hands up and roaring at Jackie to put his own hands up and fight back. This goes back to what I noted earlier about Tony ignoring/pretending that the power dynamic between him and other people doesn't exist. Because of course Jackie won't put his hands up, he's not going to get into a fistfight with his girlfriend's father, and he certainly isn't going to get into a fistfight with the boss of the New Jersey Mafia! So Tony punches him again, calls him a pussy and really twists the knife by saying he only ever told his father what a good kid he was but here he is hurting HIM over and over again. He swings him against the wall again and then feels something hard in his jacket, and removes the gun that Ralphie gave him. This is the final straw, because to Tony this gun indicates that he's not just an rear end in a top hat who goes to strip clubs behind his partner's back, but he's still in some way trying to be involved in crime (two things Tony is even more guilty of than Jackie). He puts the gun into his own back pocket, tells Jackie gently that he "bottomed out" and then knees him hard in the balls, leaving him a wheezing, sobbing mess on the (surprisingly clean) floor of a strip club at Christmas.... if that isn't bottomed out I don't know what is!   The next morning Tony wanders down at 11:30 where a pissed off Carmela is cooking and slamming pots and pans about, pissed off that she doesn't know where he was but having some suspicions. He gulps back apple juice directly from the bottle and complains that he's the monogamy poster-boy, who doesn't even get any credit for breaking up with the mistress she caught him sleeping with! But Carmela is seething over something completely in her head for once, because she thinks Tony might be involved with... Charmaine!?! Tony is flummoxed, he can't even begin to wrap his head around this idea, while an angrily smug Carmela reveals that she knows about his brief fling with her in high school (so Charmaine's petty revenge for being treated like a servant really wormed its way into Carmela's brain!). She breaks up with Artie and suddenly she looks better than ever, there MUST be a reason for that, and Carmela, betraying how her own mind works, can only assume it is because she has a new man. Tony can't quite believe it, because for once he genuinely, 100% did not do anything but she isn't going to believe him and he can't deal with the unfairness of it all. Worst of all, he can't even tell her where he really was, because he doesn't want to upset her with the truth about Jackie Jr. In therapy, he discusses this with Melfi who must be biting her tongue from screaming at him,"TRY TELLING YOUR WIFE THE TRUTH FOR A CHANGE YOU PIECE OF poo poo!" Instead she pushes him to explore the fact that his racist rejection of Noah is probably what eventually lead to Meadow and Jackie getting together. He ignores that, he wants to concentrate on what is bothering him right now and none of the mitigating factors: once again half-assing his therapy but demanding whole-rear end results. Melfi doesn't cover herself in glory either though, because she ignores Tony's very sincere concerns that telling Carmela and Meadow would upset them both to bring up that she's been thinking of ways to get around the roadblocks to discussing his friend from 1995 who worked for the Federal Government. Disgusted at what appears to be (and quite possibly is) a fascination with his criminal life overriding any interest in his actual real current problems, he gets up and storms out of the room. For once, I'd say he was in the right. At Satriale's, Patsy happily reports that parents and their children are lined up around the block waiting to meet Santa and get free presents from those nice men who spend all day at Satriale's but don't appear to do any work. Bobby is miserable as he is put into his costume, but Tony watching this makes him remember Pussy again, and another connection goes off in his brain: back in 1995 he arrived for the party already wearing the Santa suit... he was wearing a wire. In 1995, a young Christopher makes the drinks while a visibly drunk Pussy is helped into the back room by his son Kevin. They're all delighted to see him in costume already, while Pussy is in the happy drunk stage, bellowing with laughter as Silvio does his Michael Corleone impersonation. But his cheer instantly fades as Paulie slaps his belly and jokes he doesn't need a pillow, and he snaps at him to watch the suit. Pussy walks over to the table, smoking a big cigar and grabbing a bottle of whiskey as he joins Tony at the table where he is building a gingerbreak nativity scene. Pussy pours himself a drink and openly asks Tony to elaborate on their solution to red-tag garbage dumping in Paden City: has the way been "paved" for them to go down there? Did they "reach out" to the EPA guy like they told Barone? Paulie can't believe he wants to talk business at Christmas, but Christopher heard Barone's name and remembers that he has to remind Tony that he called earlier in the morning. Pussy erupts at this interruption from young associate Christopher, throwing an ashtray at him (better than the alternative) and smashing the jukebox in the process. Everybody,"OOHHHHH!"'s at him, Tony demanding to know what the gently caress is wrong with him, and almost punching him when Pussy responds back with a,"gently caress YOU!" Things are calmed down when Jimmy Altieri pops in from the back at the same time as Jackie arrives with a young Jackie Jr (played by the current actor's younger brother) and everybody coos over how handsome and smart and full of promise he is. Christopher lets the kids waiting in line outside in, and Pussy takes his seat and puts on his beard, immediately transforming into the happy, jolly fat man who charms the children and easily covers up for his son mistakenly calling him Dad instead of Santa. Tony soon forgets he is pissed at Pussy, beaming as he gifts out presents to all the children and fills them with the Christmas spirit. In the present day, Jackie, Pussy and Jimmy Altieri are dead and Jackie Jr might as well be as far as Tony is concerned, but the kids are here and eager for presents and he's delighted to be in amongst it helping sort the lines as they wait to see Santa. Santa himself however is far from happy, as a miserable Bobby struggles through the process, getting into an argument at one point with a little kid he is convinced was already in line and is double-dipping for presents, which leads to the immortal line of,"gently caress YOU, SANTA!" from the kid, causing another,"OHHHH!" from the assembled mobsters and mortifying his mother who pulls him away and apologizes almost frantically to Santa, before Silvio sends him back to apologize and Bobby grumpily hands him a gift. Tony quietly demands to know what is wrong with Bobby, he has his own kids! Bobby complains that shyness is a curse, he can't even bring himself to say,"Ho ho ho," and Paulie is disgusted at his lack of cheer.   With the party over and their "community spirit" assured via bribes to children, Tony, Paulie and Silvio sit around for the postmortem, deciding that Bobby is going to "Santa School" next year. Tony can't resist ribbing him a little, which Silvio greatly enjoys, as he reminds Paulie that he went to see a psychic so clearly he isn't able to just put things behind him, and gets confused by Paulie's insistence that this was different since it was a paranormal event. But finally he admits to a true feeling: he loved "that cocksucker" like a brother, and Pussy hosed him in the rear end by being a rat. Tony gets serious, admitting that the difference between Pussy and all the others they have killed in the past was that Pussy was somebody they loved. "The world don't run on love," grunts Paulie, insisting again that Pussy was a rat bastard, that is how he MUST think and he won't change that. He immediately discounts any warm memories of his friend, something he needs to do in order to live with himself: he can't compartmentalize, it's all or nothing.. Silvio and Tony agree that he was a good Santa Claus, but Paulie won't even allow that much into his memory, saying"In the end, gently caress Santa Claus." That leaves the three of them to sit in silence, considering that less than Christmas sentiment.  Christmas morning comes at last and the Sopranos open their gifts eagerly, especially AJ... until he realizes his latest gift is just a sweater from his grandmother. The doorbell rings, a surprise so early on a Christmas morning, and Carmela (she and Tony both in dressing gowns) goes to answer and is surprised to see Jackie Jr. Not as surprised as Tony, who glares suspiciously as he kisses a happy Meadow hello and hands over gifts from Rosalie... and gives Meadow his gift to her. It is a necklace with an inscription promising he will always be true, and she hugs him with love as Carmela beams at the two of them, AJ is laser-focused on his next gift, and Tony holds his tongue and moves past to make another hot drink, staring a hole through Jackie who has been worryingly casts looks his way the entire time. As Meadow rushes over to show an eager Carmela the necklace, Jackie timidly moves into the kitchen and asks nervously if he can talk to Tony, who gives no response beyond sipping his coffee. So Jackie comes right out with it, the truth for once: he flunked out of Rutgers. He admits he hosed up, he got distracted, and then says exactly the wrong (or right?) thing by noting that Ralph agreed with him that maybe college wasn't the best if he didn't have the aptitude for it. Ralphie was probably right about Jackie there, but it immediately gives Tony something else to dislike Ralphie about, especially when Jackie starts talking about how much money Ralphie was making at Jackie's age without going to college. He claims he got the gun because his car was broken into a couple of times at the frat house, and then gives Tony MORE ammunition by admitting it was Ralph who gave the gun to him. He admits it was stupid, but he's going to be okay now, he's decided he wants to design men's suits and does himself a favor by revealing that this is something he and Meadow have discussed and SHE has encouraged him to go to the Fashion Institute. Tony isn't just going to roll over and pretend everything is okay though (that's something he reserves for other people to do to him), he cuts through the crap to point out that Jackie bullshitted him and betrayed his daughter, and tells him to go back inside before telling him something that must be utterly terrifying: he simply hasn't decided yet WHAT he is going to do with Jackie Jr. Jackie awkwardly makes his way back into the living room, AJ zipping by on a scooter (wasn't that for Meadow?) while she wears a new coat over her pajamas and tries to convince Jackie to stick around so she can get him her present. Tony comes back as Jackie tells Meadow he can't stay as he's driving Rosalie up to the rest home (retirement community?) to see his grandmother. She walks him to the door and they kiss, Tony casting a look back at Tony and Carmela who are watching them: Tony suspiciously and Carmela gleefully. Tony turns his attention away, passing over his own final gift to Carmela who - all thoughts of Charmaine long gone in the glow of Christmas and young love - peppers him with kisses before opening it. She knows exactly what it is going to be and radiates happiness as she tears off the paper and sees the branding on the case which confirms it. "Oh my God!" she exclaims as she pulls the sapphire bracelet out, showing it off to Meadow who is very impressed. Meadow admits though that this kind of takes the wind out of her sails, because her gift to Tony is going to seem silly by comparison. Tony though is thrilled, SHE got him a present? After all their recent troubles he genuinely wasn't expecting anything from her. With a smile she reminds him it is Christmas, and his thank you back is absolutely genuine and heartfelt. He feels that familiar excitement that comes from opening a present from somebody you love which you weren't expecting, for a second he is a kid as he tears open the paper... and comes face-to-face with Big Mouth Billy Bass. AJ is thrilled, he's seen these things, and they pull it out of its box and show it to a dazzled Carmela who thinks it is just the cutest, most clever thing, ESPECIALLY when it turns to look directly into Tony's face. Meadow insists that he put it somewhere in pride of place in his office so she'll know he truly values it, and fighting to keep the sick feelings from overwhelming him he nods and agrees, telling her how much he loves it. And he stares into its singing face, it is Christmas Day and he's just been forced to confront the unpalatable truth behind all his wealth and loving family and grateful community and devoted friends (not Charmaine), in direct contradiction to the closing song that plays over the credits everything is NOT gonna be all right, because he can't deny that he is a murderer who would even kill his own best friend if they got in his way.  Merry Christmas, Tony Soprano. Season 3: Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood | Proshai, Livushka | Fortunate Son | Employee of the Month | Another Toothpick | University | Second Opinion | He Is Risen | The Telltale Moozadell | ...To Save Us All from Satan's Power | Pine Barrens | Amour Fou | Army of One Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2019 07:24
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Jerusalem brought up a great point: I've never seen anybody as good at being frankly terrifying as James Gandolfini at just smiling and saying "I just wanna talk with you."
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Jun 23, 2019 12:11
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Dawgstar posted:Jerusalem brought up a great point: I've never seen anybody as good at being frankly terrifying as James Gandolfini at just smiling and saying "I just wanna talk with you." If you haven't seen True Romance, the scene where Gandolfini tracks down Alabama is one of the most disturbing things I've seen in film and it is very much in that same vein. It tends to get overshadowed because of the (wonderful) scene where he pops by Michael Rapaport's house and has a friendly conversation with Brad Pitt, but the Alabama scene gets into some extremely dark places and Gandolfini is absolutely incredible in it (as is Patricia Arquette): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqfDcrg3if0 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 12:56
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The True Romance scene was what put Gandolfini on David Chase's radar IIRC.
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Jun 23, 2019 15:22
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Dawgstar posted:Jerusalem brought up a great point: I've never seen anybody as good at being frankly terrifying as James Gandolfini at just smiling and saying "I just wanna talk with you." The expression on his face when he looms over Jackie Jr. at the illegal casino, studying Jackie before he turns to face him- being able to notice things like this are worth turning up the brightness. Jerusalem posted:That "dummy" comes to a reasoned, sensible and unselfish understanding about life in general that is seemingly beyond all the smart guys and great leaders etc. Gandolfini does an amazing job just conveying the jealousy that Tony feels in that moment. You can see the gears turning- "being happy- how do I get that?" (also probably feeling more than a little bit jealous of Carmine's marriage- his wife seems to actually be concerned about Carmine beyond the money and material things he provides, whereas this is really the backbone of Tony and Carmela's relationship, especially after their reconciliation). I will actually defend Chasing It and the one episode gambling subplot. In Fortunate Son, Johnny Boy is very concise in telling young Tony to never gamble. This is a memory that Tony shares, there's no way he's forgotten- he just hasn't taken heed of his father's advice whatsoever. This earlier moment in the series helped to showcase his complete disregard for what anyone has to say to him, even his father- especially his father. We see that whatever moral code Tony follows is not the product of his upbringing, or listening to others or being told how to think- it's all him, and he and the people around him suffer for it. Is that enough to make it a good episode? No, but it helps drive home the whole point that Tony despite being a cold, calculating captain of industry type is ultimately rudderless when faced with the ability to do whatever he wants- it's not enough, so he's still 'chasing' a thrill that always escapes him.
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Jun 23, 2019 15:32
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Jerusalem posted:What I love about Carmine is that he's the butt of jokes for so long and then one episode he sits down with Tony and in his beautiful, stupid way explains the story of how one day he came home late and didn't follow his normal routine and his wife freaked out thinking he was dead.... and he just right then and there decided to put all ambition and desire for the top spot aside and just live happily with what he's got because he didn't want his wife to be upset. That "dummy" comes to a reasoned, sensible and unselfish understanding about life in general that is seemingly beyond all the smart guys and great leaders etc. You know what? Make mine an Arnold Palmer. I always enjoy those, but it never occurs to me to order one.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:28
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:
That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. I liked the episode(s). I like every episode of the show but some are better than others and I just thought the introduction of the gambling was very abrupt and tonally jarring. Some of that Season 6.5 stuff felt meandering and a little bit like filler but I still thought it was good TV
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Jun 23, 2019 19:09
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Its a typical mobster mixed message though because Johnny Boy tells him to never gamble as he collects a gambling debt for a wager he accepted. I forget his name, but think of the one shop owner friend of Tony's who he allows to gamble knowing he has a problem, and collects his car and gives to AJ. I wonder if gambling himself isn't in a little way trying to justify accepting wagers while not thinking of himself as being a bad guy for doing so? Hard to separate yourself from your own product. I guess he could be like a drug dealer who knows the stuff he sells is poison and avoids it, but he could also get tempted by being around it. It normalizes it if nothing else.
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Jun 23, 2019 19:15
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Zaphod42 posted:Its a typical mobster mixed message though because Johnny Boy tells him to never gamble as he collects a gambling debt for a wager he accepted. I think you could definitely do a good, motivated storyline where Tony gets hooked on gambling. But doing it in one episode, start to finish, was weird and didn't work. It was one of the few times you could feel the writers moving pieces around instead of feeling like these were real people. The others being usually when they tried to write dialogue for AJ's friends.
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Jun 23, 2019 20:07
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Ishamael posted:The others being usually when they tried to write dialogue for AJ's friends. Why don't you get bent, fart-knocker!!!!  That scene with Tony and Furio in the back of the car and it driving off to the sound of sleigh bells was so darkly comical. Again I'm just intrigued by Janice and Tony's relationship with each other. This Russian man's crime was taking back a one legged woman's prosthetic leg that Tony's demented sister stole from her 
crispix fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 20:33
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BiggerBoat posted:That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. Season 6B is basically David Chase grabbing you by the head and smashing it against the TV while going 'DO YOU GET IT YET?' ...I didn't get it the first time, nor the second time. BiggerBoat posted:"WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?!?" God rest his soul, huh?
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Jun 23, 2019 20:45
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I'd forgotten but Tony has a tiger tattoo. Check out the wall behind him in the final episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkLE3rAwGE
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Jun 23, 2019 21:50
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That ending has really grown on me over time.
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Jun 24, 2019 00:49
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Ishamael posted:I think you could definitely do a good, motivated storyline where Tony gets hooked on gambling. But doing it in one episode, start to finish, was weird and didn't work. It was one of the few times you could feel the writers moving pieces around instead of feeling like these were real people. The others being usually when they tried to write dialogue for AJ's friends. For sure, just over-analyzing it for fun 
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Jun 24, 2019 00:55
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That shot of AJ in the thumbnail just suddenly reminded me of that great episode where he's staying the night at his girlfriend's and some dudes outside are making a noise. She says that they used to come around before but her old boyfriend beat the poo poo out of them, with the implication clear that this is what a "man" should do to be a good boyfriend. So AJ goes downstairs, goes to the back of his car as the guys wait to see what weapon he's grabbing... then brings out a bike and says,"Hey if I give you my bike will you go away/be quiet?" 
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Jun 24, 2019 00:59
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Jerusalem posted:That shot of AJ in the thumbnail just suddenly reminded me of that great episode where he's staying the night at his girlfriend's and some dudes outside are making a noise. She says that they used to come around before but her old boyfriend beat the poo poo out of them, with the implication clear that this is what a "man" should do to be a good boyfriend. So AJ goes downstairs, goes to the back of his car as the guys wait to see what weapon he's grabbing... then brings out a bike and says,"Hey if I give you my bike will you go away/be quiet?" Yeah that's such an AJ moment. Its funny how it makes him look good and bad at the same time. Like you said, the implication is a real man would defend his woman and go beat this guys up, and AJ isn't tough and is even maybe a coward. Also that he solves his problems with money, as he's spoiled? But also, it shows that AJ isn't his father and isn't a sociopath. He isn't willing to hurt others to get his way.
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Jun 24, 2019 01:10
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Plus it works! So he didn't get his rear end beat or (unlikely) beat the poo poo out of three dudes... but the guys went away and he got to go back upstairs to a grateful girlfriend. Edit: By the end of the series, we see that Meadow is (as expected) the "successful" one of the Soprano kids, and that AJ is probably gonna end up being like Little Carmine. But Meadow is willingly entrenching herself into the deep muck of the mob, while AJ is just gonna be a slightly dumb dude with money who lives a relatively stress free life of ease. That's... not so bad! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 01:24
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Maybe he'll get to fix some wet t-shirt contests
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Jun 24, 2019 02:08
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AJ's going to help finance Cleaver II.
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Jun 24, 2019 02:27
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Meadow probably grew the most out of all the characters on the show. One of my favorite scenes is when she's asking her mom what she plans to do once she's divorced and kind of rolls her eyes when Carm tells her she doesn't need a job because she has lawyers. Actually, the whole plot of them being separated was one of my favorites.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:24
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Solice Kirsk posted:Meadow probably grew the most out of all the characters on the show. One of my favorite scenes is when she's asking her mom what she plans to do once she's divorced and kind of rolls her eyes when Carm tells her she doesn't need a job because she has lawyers. Actually, the whole plot of them being separated was one of my favorites. I don't think her growth is positive at all. She becomes more and more accepting of Tony's lifestyle as the series goes along and even starts defending him when others question what he does. Like Carmela she'd be best served severing ties completely with her father but she's understandably unable to do so. One of the biggest indictments of Tony's life is how it drags his wife and his children down with him. Meadow's acceptance of Tony is no more exemplified than when Coco makes drunken sexual advances towards her. Unlike Dr.Melfi who ultimately made the choice not to use Tony for vigilante justice, Meadow has no problem doing so and she 100% knows what's going to happen to Coco once she tells Tony what he did. I think she ultimately ends up like Carmela. She knows that the mob life is wrong but she's willing to accept it because of the status and material advantages it presents. I think the main difference is unlike Carmela who tries to sugarcoat and hide from Tony's darkness Meadow is more willing to outwardly rationalize what Tony does and even embrace it.
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Jun 24, 2019 16:04
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The thing with Meadow is that she doesn't ever show any signs of being willing to accept a "lesser" kind of lifestyle than what she grew up accustomed to. She sometimes can talk a good game about not wanting to be involved with blood money, but when it comes to the luxuries that she enjoys, she's shown she's willing to look the other way to maintain them. So it's a question of whether she would be ok with just being a working attorney who makes a solid living, or if she needs to have the nice house in the nice neighborhood with the cars and clothes and all that stuff. The fact that she apparently ends up married to a connected guy seems to indicate which way she's leaning there.
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Jun 24, 2019 16:42
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't think her growth is positive at all. She becomes more and more accepting of Tony's lifestyle as the series goes along and even starts defending him when others question what he does. We'll see it not too long from now when she gives Jackie's sister and cousin the whole "I'm AMAZED you believe our family is the Mafia they are in waste sanitation!"
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Jun 24, 2019 20:37
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It's about ethics in Italian American jurisprudence.
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Jun 24, 2019 21:12
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Yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me that AJ and Meadow were both headed down the same roads as their parents. Meadow was altruistic when it suited her but was spoiled rotten and gradually gave way to "Carmelic" rationalization and materialism, even dating "mob guys" as she aged, and AJ (also spoiled) was a borderline idiot on top of it who suffered the same mental illness as his father. I'd say Meadow is more likely to wind up like Carm than AJ is to wind up like Tony but only because AJ doesn't seem up to running a family. Plus, at the end, it was made pretty clear that was no more mob "family" to run. The whole season centers around its demise really. The final wide shot we get of Paulie, sitting alone at Satriale's, is used to demonstrate this in direct contrast to similar shots. The last season goes out of its way to show us how the old tactics of strong arming and extortion don't work anymore in the age of franchises, digital currency and the increased surveillance capabilities of law enforcement.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:56
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I thought Meadow's fiance was also a lawyer and she took a job at his firm. I know he was Patsy's kid, but was it ever said that he was tied up in any of his dad's stuff? I know his younger brother was running a crew that AJ was hanging out with for a bit, so maybe I just missed something.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:10
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Solice Kirsk posted:I thought Meadow's fiance was also a lawyer and she took a job at his firm. I know he was Patsy's kid, but was it ever said that he was tied up in any of his dad's stuff? I know his younger brother was running a crew that AJ was hanging out with for a bit, so maybe I just missed something. The closest we get get is Tony and Carm not liking Patrick and Meadow complaining 'he's changed' whatever that means. Interestingly apparently he's the Patrick that Meadow gets busted for sneaking out to see in the pilot.
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Jun 25, 2019 12:39
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Apologies if this has been posted but I stumbled across this Vanity Fair article from a ways back that interviews Chase and several cast members https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2012/04/sopranos-oral-history Couple highlights/random tidbits: DAVID CHASE: I was picturing Anne Bancroft as Livia, Tony’s mother. TONY SIRICO (Paulie “Walnuts” Gualtieri): I read for Uncle Junior. It was me, Dominic Chianese, and Frank Vincent who went up for the role that day. ANNABELLA SCIORRA (Gloria Trillo): David wanted me to play Janice … but I turned it down because he wanted me to wear age makeup and dye my hair. ALLEN COULTER (director): Sopranos gave the lie to the notions that you had to explain everything, that you always had to have a star in the lead, that everybody had to be ultimately likable, that there had to be so-called closure, that there was a psychological lesson to be learned, that there was a moral at the center that you should carry away from the show, that people should be pretty, that people should be svelte. STEVEN VAN ZANDT: Everybody thought I was doing the music for The Sopranos, but I made it very clear to everybody I had nothing really to do with it. STEVEN SCHIRRIPA (Bobby “Bacala” Baccalieri): After Season Four [when Gandolfini and HBO had a pay dispute and filming was delayed], Jim called all the regulars into his trailer and gave us $33,333 each, every single one of us. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 12:43
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Season 3, Episode 11 - Pine BarrensChristopher Moltisanti posted:Right now we're just two assholes lost in the woods. To an aptly named song, Gloria Trillo pulls up to the pier where Tony's boat The Stugots is moored. She comes bearing a gift, a late Christmas present now she is back from Morocco, but when she boards the boat there is no sign of Tony. Against her better judgement she answers the phone (after turning off the music, which was diegetic) and the person on the other end is Mrs. Washington, from "little Anthony's" high school, calling for Tony. She hands the phone over to Tony who has just arrived, and of course it isn't "Mrs. Washington", it's Irina, who is calling on the pretext of not being able to find her religious medal, which she is sure is on the Stugots. Tony quickly finds an excuse to hang up as Irina timidly asks who the other woman was, and mumbles something to Gloria about AJ's attendance being poo poo before belatedly giving her a kiss hello after she reminds him he hasn't yet. They briefly discuss Morocco but she can tell he's distracted, and finally he admits that the woman on the phone was on old girlfriend. Gloria mocks him for thinking she didn't immediately know that, and then psychoanalyzes him when he admits he lied to avoid pissing her off, noting that this means he was thinking about himself, not her. He didn't want to have to deal with her being angry so he just lied, to spare himself the trouble as opposed to caring about her feelings. He's taken aback, while her analysis is pretty loving accurate it's also accompanied by a savage venom that seems completely out of whack with the severity of his "crime". She strides out past him, pausing only to hold up the gift so he can see it before she brazenly tosses it out the window to punish him. "Merry Christmas" she snaps and leaves, and he is left utterly baffled by this completely over-the-top reaction.   Paulie is in the middle of a manicure when his phone rings, it's Tony in the back office of the Bada Bing. Silvio has the flu and needs somebody to go and pick up a debt, and since the debt is owed by Valery - the big enforcer for Slava who handles all of Tony's money-laundering - Tony clearly wants somebody he can trust on the job. Paulie doesn't feel particularly blessed to be chosen though, he was meant to take his mother to get her Social Security tomorrow, and more to the point he clearly feels like this type of thing is beneath him. Tony is disinterested in his objections though, he can still take his mother out after he finishes this simple errand that will take at most a half hour, if that. This simple task is about to create one of the most beloved episodes ever made of this already beloved show. Tony attends therapy with Carmela again, where they present a happy and united front, still glowing from the aftermath of a very happy and successful Christmas. They're even of one mind about Jackie Aprile Jr, Tony evidently told Carmela enough that they're both free to express their reservations about his relationship with Meadow again. The only tension comes from a brief aside about Tony's overt racism (against Carmela's covert racism) towards Noah, but Melfi is still impressed by the fact they can express this difference of opinion without getting angry and shouting. Tony gives her the credit and Carmela doesn't dispute it, he feels they're learning to be better communicators. Meadow, meanwhile, is failing to get the message as she plays Scrabble in her dorm with a bored Jackie. She's got the flu too, and is not at all receptive to Jackie's attempts to turn Scrabble into sex even in spite of her clear illness. He complains (good-naturedly) that she can't play Spanish words in Scrabble, not knowing what oblique (he pronounces it oh-blee-kay) means. She's confused, he's in College, he must know that word? "I'm not an English Major" he insists, playing "rear end" on the board and asking her to give him some. When he finally figures out that they're not going to bang, he becomes bored, checking his watch and asking if she wants to do Ecstasy: he can't fathom simply sitting around and being with her/there for her. Sensing his boredom she asks if he is tired and he immediately leaps on the chance to agree and get his coat, insisting it is for her benefit so she can get some sleep. Out the door he goes, leaving her slightly startled at the rapidity of his departure, left all alone feeling sick and miserable.   The next morning, Paulie has roped Christopher into his errand, the two discussing Russians as they walk up to Valery's apartment door. Christopher doesn't think the Russians are all that bad, shocked to discover from Paulie that the Cuban Missile Crisis was real and not just some movie. Valery, smoking and holding a glass of booze (far from his first of the day) comes to the door and lets them in with a dismissive smirk when he sees it is them. He doesn't bother to greet them or invite them in, leaving Paulie at least pissed off before he enters, he already didn't want to be there and now this rear end in a top hat Russian is ignoring him? Christopher enters first and Paulie cracks a joke about there probably being 30+ people living here. Valery, unimpressed, offers the closest thing he has to hospitality, which is to offer them a drink, which they turn down as it is so early in the morning. Paulie meanwhile is distracted by the giant entertainment center, cracking another joke about how Valery probably wiped his rear end barehanded before coming to America and now he has all this and even uses a universal remote. Valery takes all this in silence as he sits on the couch drinking, the only emotion he betrays is minor contempt for Silvio when Christopher asks if he has his money. He does though, it's in an envelope on the entertainment center, and Christopher starts counting it as Paulie cracks another off-colour joke about rubles. Valery has had enough, he's paid his debt and now he wants them gone, so barely holding his bemused contempt for the two of them in check he grunts at Paulie to put the universal remote back on the docking station. Paulie, feeling insulted simply by being there, is even more insulted that the guy he is collecting money FROM now has the balls to order him about. So being Paulie, he "accidentally" drops the remote on the ground and smashes it, even Christopher shaking his head at this being too much. And Valery sighs. There's a lot to unpack from that sigh. He's downtrodden, drunk, a pathetic slob... but he's also a big guy who clearly holds zero fear for either of these two mobsters. The sigh is his acknowledgement/understanding that they pushed things too far and now he is going to have to do something about it. He knows it is wrong, that it is going to make a mess for Slava, but he also knows that he can't let the insult go unanswered. So he starts to rise from his couch, muttering angrily about Paulie loving with him in his own house.... and Paulie shoves him back down into the couch and smashes him over the head with his own bottle of booze. Valery's reaction is instant, he launches from the couch like a torpedo and directly into Paulie, both of them spilling over the coffee table as Christopher reacts a second too late to try and haul Valery off. He throws Valery into a chokehold but the big Russian lifts him bodily from the ground and backs him into a wall, spilling him off and then putting HIM into a chokehold. Paulie, still gasping from the shock of the sudden attack after what should have been a fight-ending move, grabs the nearby lampstand and uses it to haul Valery off of Christopher while choking him. Christopher staggers up, races over and holds down Valery's legs as Paulie continues to press the weight down on his neck until finally Valery stops fighting back. Christopher is appalled, what the gently caress did Paulie just do? He claims he had no choice of course, and they look down at Valery's choking, gasping face and figure that his windpipe is cracked and he's as good as dead. Hauling a rug down off the wall, Paulie tells Christopher to bring the car around, and in quick order they're wheeling Valery's bundled up body out to their car on a handcart and dumping it in the trunk.  All Paulie has to do was collect the money and go. Despite how they last left it, Tony and Gloria have had another romantic getaway in a hotel. Naked in the bed, Gloria has presented Tony with an apology card that he finds wonderfully charming: she's feeling very sheepish, and there is a sheep on the card. She apologizes for answering the phone on the Stugots in the first place, she had no right, and she's presented him with another gift: it's a Moroccan robe, and she's girlishly charming as she tosses her arms high in the air in a mixture of happiness and awkwardness about how to express her emotions. He doesn't quite know what to make of it (there's a disturbing parallel between his reaction to this gift and his reaction to Meadow's last episode) but he is clearly pleased, holding it up to look it over before folding it up and admitting he feels like a jerk for not getting her anything. She insists he certainly does, and next thing you know they're having sex, the moment ruined by yet another ringing phone. Irritated but figuring it is business related and therefore important, he answers and it is Paulie on the other end, giving him an extremely biased version of events. He got the money, but then things got physical, Valery gave them poo poo and even sucker-punched Paulie! Christopher narrows his eyes at hearing this, while a pissed off Tony leaves the bed and Gloria and shifts to the toilet to get a more detailed breakdown. Flushing the toilet to mask his voice from Gloria, he can't believe it when Paulie tells him Valery is in their trunk: he's supposed to meet Slava later! He warns them to use their own judgment in what they do now, but whatever it is they do it far away from him. The phone reception is bad and they can barely hear each other, the phone connection breaking entirely as a furious Tony hangs up and goes back into the hotel bedroom where Gloria is dressing and rolling her eyes at him needlessly wasting water to cover up what he was saying. She has to go, he wants to take her to lunch but this was her lunch break, but she suggests he come to her house for dinner at 9pm, she'll make him London broil. At a gas station, Christopher and Paulie consider what to do with Valery: dump him at the shore? Nah, it's too light out... though Christopher suggests maybe they could go to Roy Rogers and get something to eat while they wait. Paulie is all business though (now, anyway), first they deal with Valery, then food. His suggestion is that they take him to the Pine Barrens, it is in South Jersey which means it is far from anybody they know... plus then business-first Paulie suggests they can drive down to Atlantic City afterwards, get a room for the evening and play some blackjack! Christopher's only interest is in eating, he didn't have breakfast, so Paulie sweetens the deal by saying they'll go out for steak. Tony has returned to therapy for a solo session with Melfi, where he again credits her for his improved outlook and cheery demeanor. She simply sits silently until the quiet leaves him uncomfortable enough to tell her the truth, though of course he twists this as somehow a great and magnanimous gesture from him that he has decided to tell his loving therapy the goddamn truth for a change. He is seeing Gloria Trillo, and though she of course knew this for all but a fact, she simply nods and asks him a pertinent question she wants HIM to know the answer to: why Gloria? Why not is all he can think? Gloria is smart, sexy... she's Italian! He tries to sweet talk Melfi, saying maybe Gloria reminds him of her since she is also smart, sexy and Italian. He's not taking any of this seriously, while she is quietly pleading with him to read the clear warning signs while not being able to say a thing due to doctor/patient confidentiality. When he insists that both he and Gloria are happy and that's all that matters, she points out that he's lying to Carmela. He claims it doesn't matter, because he's a better husband and a better father thanks to the good mood that Gloria puts him in... yes, that's right, Tony Soprano thinks that cheating on his wife makes him a good husband.   Paulie and Christopher drive to South Jersey and the Pine Barrens, the recent snow making the place even more deserted than normal. Pulling up to the chained off access road, they get out and open the trunk... and Valery sits up into the light, having half worked his way out of the rolled up rug he was bundled into. They're shocked, he's alive!?! Paulie is amused though, it means he gets to goad and taunt Valery for the great sin of not taking kindly to his racist insults, and the insult of Paulie being sent on this errand in the first place. Valery's windpipe wasn't cracked, he's able to talk having chewed through the tape, and growls insults at Paulie who is looking on the bright side: now they don't have to carry his corpse OR dig the grave, Valery can do it himself. They walk through the snow, the place is eerily quiet and the dead trees of winter make it seem all the more barren. But as they move, Valery seems surprisingly calm, even cheerful. Hands taped behind his back, wearing only light pajama pants and a short-sleeved shirt, the cold doesn't bother him in the slightest and he simply smiles and chuckles every so often as he looks back at the clearly freezing Paulie and Christopher. Reaching a good spot to finish him off, they remove his tape and tell him to start digging, and he sneers in Russian that he will kill them both, clubbing his chest and roaring that the cold doesn't bother him, he washes his balls in ice-water, this is warm to him and they are American pieces of poo poo!  He starts to dig in the snow, while Paulie take the chance to taunt him some more, telling him they had no plans to kill him when they arrived and it was Valery's big mouth that got him into this trouble (pot, kettle, etc). Christopher, already looking past the murder of this man standing right in front of him, asking just how far Atlantic City is, and Valery takes his chance. Swinging his shovel he drops Christopher with a blow to the side of the head, jamming the handle into Paulie's balls as he tries to jump him. Not bothering to try and struggle over one of their two guns, he simply rushes into the trees, confident in his ability to survive the snow and navigate his way to freedom. They give chase, a clumsy rehash of their chase of Mikey Palmice back in season one, shooting wildly after Valery who moves quickly and easily through the snow, a big smile on his face as the adrenaline pumps through his system. They can't keep up, he's pulling away, and Paulie finally stops, holds his gun steady and takes one last roll of the dice as he fires, face in despair at the thought of what this fuckup will mean to him in regards to Tony... and Valery's head explodes in blood and he collapses to the ground. Shocked, slightly disbelieving but relieved, they stand to catch their breath... and in front of their shocked eyes Valery's corpse rises up and he races off into the trees again, somehow still alive. They stand in shock, trying to figure out what they just saw. Eventually they move to where he fell, a trail of blood and footprints in the snow leading away. Christopher is concerned about his own bloodied head but Paulie assures him it'll just need a couple of stitches. They figure Valery can't have got far with half his head hanging off, and start following the blood and footprints... until both stop and leave them with only pristine white snow in front of them. Valery has simply... disappeared? An overhead camera shot could be construed as him having climbed a tree, but they're bare and open to the sky, the chances of being seen would surely be too high. The overhead shot does indicate that he looped around a tree and off to the side, but they could also have been left by Paulie and Christopher themselves, and the lack of blood is the most confusing. No. He's just... gone.  AJ is watching a music video as Carmela pops down to go to the market and confirms with Tony that he'll be home for dinner. In spite of his plans with Gloria he agrees he will, and after she leaves he gives Paulie a call to ensure that the Valery situation has been dealt with. Suffice to say it has not, and Tony becomes progressively more enraged as the quality of the call declines, allowing other voices on the same frequency to come through, and they attempt to talk about the situation in code. AJ can't help but overhear Tony bellowing,"COULD THE PACKAGE SURVIVE!?!" after Paulie deadpan explains that "the package hit Chrissy with an implement and ran off", and he must be wondering just what package Tony is expecting. Tony hangs up after the interference becomes too much, furious that he has to meet with Slava soon and doesn't know what kind of danger he could be walking into. He gave Paulie a simple task, and it's turned into a giant clusterfuck. In the Pine Barrens, Paulie is still feeling aggrieved at the lack of respect he is being shown. He doesn't even know what work Tony is doing with Slava, and disputes Christopher's reminder that it isn't their place to know, reminding him that he at least is a Captain. Both are complaining about the cold, which they're not equipped for (more than Valery at least), and with conviction born of laziness they decide that Valery must surely be dead by now and the squirrels will eat him, so they should just go home. Christopher is sure that they looped around at one point and shouldn't just turn the other way, but a smug Paulie reminds him that he spent 4 years in the army and he knows his way around: they simply have to follow their own footprints. So they do. And get lost. Because they followed their own footprints in a loop back on itself and now they don't have a clue where the hell they are. Paulie uses the setting sun to figure out which direction they're facing at least, though Christopher points out this doesn't get them any less lost. Paulie, who is rapidly making a terrible situation (of his making!) even worse, continues to insist that he's got everything under control. Tony arrives for his meeting with Slava, bringing him another bag full of dirty money to launder. Slava greets him as warmly as ever, introducing him to his daughter Ilana and sending her off with some cash to buy some candy and leave them alone. Tony is friendly but hiding his nervousness, looking for signs from Slava that something is wrong, that he knows something. As Slava pours them a drink, Tony can't help but notice the big handgun prominently placed as a paperweight on the desk, and he "casually" brings up Valery, noting that he isn't here like normal. Slava doesn't know either, though he asks if he paid Silvio back the money like he was instructed? Tony pretends ignorance, saying he wasn't there for the pickup, and then notices a picture of the two of them in army uniform in the background. Slava, getting emotional, tells how Valery saved his life in Chechnya but has become a tragic figure due to drugs and alcohol and disgraced his family. But Slava would do anything for his friend (including paying his debt to Silvio, it would seem), and Tony just gets more uneasy about how the man who cleans his money will react if he discovers Tony's men killed Valery.   As Paulie and Christopher continue looking for their car, Tony calls to give them the breakdown on what he just learned over a few more drinks with a tearful Slava. Valery is a monster, he was a Commando, a Russian Green Beret who worked for the Interior Ministry and killed 16 Chechen rebels single-handed. He has to repeat himself due to the bad connection, and stresses at the end that under NO circumstances can Valery make it back to tell his story. Paulie, assures him he understands, and they end the call. He then turns and tells Christopher EXACTLY what he just heard Tony say.... Valery killed 16 Czechoslovakians, and he was an interior decorator! Christopher considers this for a moment, before giving back an appropriate response,"His house looked like poo poo." Time passes as they return to the woods in search of Valery, guns drawn and limbs trembling as the sun starts to go down and whatever minor heat of the day dissipates. The sound of a twig breaking gives them hope and Christopher leads as they rush into the treeline, shooting blindly at nothing until Paulie trips and tumbles down a snowbank, losing a shoe in the process. Christopher hit what he was looking for though, except it wasn't a Russian Green Beret, it was a deer he managed to shoot right through the neck, killing it immediately. He can't believe it, laughing that if he'd tried he wouldn't have come close, but Paulie isn't impressed: they're no closer to finding Valery, it's getting dark, and he's lost a shoe. At Columbia in her dorm-room, a still sick Meadow gets a call from Jackie Jr who is full of excuses for why he can't come around to see her tonight, all the while clearly dressing up and grooming for a night out. He has to get his mother's car inspected... at night. Not happy but not disbelieving just yet, Meadow says goodnight and puts down the phone in disappointment. But as she lies on her bed sulking, she spots the Scrabble game they abandoned last night and a long overdue realization strikes her as she looks at his words - THE, DOG, POO, rear end - and finally grasps the truth: Jackie Aprile Jr is a dumb piece of poo poo. The sun has fully set and Christopher helps support Paulie as he hops along at his side, fearing frostbite and the loss of his foot if they don't find their way out soon. Christopher, who hasn't eaten all day, spots some berries and wants to eat them, but Paulie is bright enough at least to realize that there is every chance they're poisonous. But respite of a different sort is in sight, there is a van sitting in the snow just ahead of them. They rush/hop towards it, realizing there is gravel under the snow and they are on some type of road. The plumbing ban is empty and abandoned, the back wheels gone, but it is shelter at least and they climb inside (Paulie shoving Christopher out of the way to get in first, of course) and out of the elements at last. Inside, they take a moment to review their personal situations: Christopher gets to look at the damage to his head at last, while Paulie tries to use his own bodyheat to stave off the cold in his foot. A more pressing concern can't be ignored though: what if Valery really is still alive? It doesn't seem possible, but he's trained for this kind of Die Hard poo poo.   Tony eats dinner with Carmela and AJ, he doesn't have much of an appetite but he enjoys revealing to a startled AJ he knows the punchline to an old joke that AJ was convinced his friend Egon made up. Carmela enjoys the interplay, but can't help but notice he is picking at his food and keeps checking his watch. At Gloria's, she works busily on the London Broil, a nice romantic dinner for just her and the man currently eating dinner with his wife and child. At the Pine Barrens, the wonderfully disheveled Paulie mocks Christopher's concern that Valery could be out there stalking them ("with what? His cock?") since even if he was alive, he'd be in no state to do much at all let alone stalk them. Paulie is determined to convince them both that Valery is dead, but the fear of what will happen to him if not disappears when he sees Christopher has found a crumpled fast food bag... and there are ketchup packets inside! They quickly divide them up, these two feared mobsters utterly pathetic as they sit bloodied, concussed and freezing in an abandoned van, lost and greedily eating ketchup. As far from the glamorous movie vision of mobsters as it is possible to get. Back at the Soprano home, AJ brings his grandparents into the kitchen after being sent to answer the door. Carmela of course immediately knows something is wrong, and Tony is stunned to hear that they've come from the doctor's and Hugh has glaucoma, he may need an operation on his eyes. Tony brings Hugh in to sit at the table, while Carmela moves to make coffee, but then Tony's phone rings. It's Paulie, who seemingly out of the goodness of his heart has left the van to make the call since Christopher has dozed off. But when he gets upset at Tony being pissed off at his lack of results and the fact they've gotten lost, he realizes he has taken things too far... so he turns to ensure Christopher is still sleeping before quietly explaining that sometimes Tony's nephew doesn't think before he acts. Now Tony is confused, didn't Valery start this by sucker-punching Paulie? Caught between two lies and seeing Christopher moving about, he says they'll talk later and quickly hangs up. Tony ponders just what the hell is going on, and walks back into the kitchen where he hesitates for just a second too long when Carmela asks if he is having coffee. Disgusted, she quietly but firmly reminds him: Her. father. has. glaucoma. He stands caught in an impossible place, he can't get out of this even if he wasn't wanting to leave to go bang his mistress, so he nods and joins them at the table.   In her dorm, Meadow calls and leaves yet another message for Jackie. Her suspicions getting the better of her, she manages to get up and down the hall in her bathrobe, sniffling and near tears as she asks another student - Ambujam - if she can borrow her car. Another suspicious girlfriend is Gloria Trillo, who is drunk and chain-smoking well past the hour that Tony promised to come by for dinner. She ambles to the door when he knocks and lets him in, halfway between drunk and pissed as she walks off complaining that she'd have gotten married if she wanted to be treated like poo poo. He's apologetic but also trying to undercut her complaints, saying if dinner is ruined then they'll just go out. She doesn't want to be presented with solutions though, she wants to be mad, slapping away his hand when he strokes her hair. Now he's mildly irritated, after all he said sorry! But he maintains his cool, settling down beside her (his physical presence really is remarkably overpowering seen in close like this) and gently explaining it was "family poo poo" that couldn't be avoided. Against her better judgment she finds herself forgiving him, making one last sullen attempt to complain that he's 3 hours later before melting into his arms as a poo poo-eating grin crosses his face: he's gotten everything his own way yet again. Christopher has settled outside of the van and is attempting to make fire by rubbing sticks together. Is it a survival technique? A campfire? No, he's literally just trying to generate enough of a spark to light his cigarette! Hearing a twig snapping, he quietly and carefully makes his way back to the "safety" of the van where Paulie is tearing at the carpeted floor of the back of the van as he bitches about Silvio getting the "sniffles" and them being forced to go and run his errands for him. He complains to Christopher that Tony was talking to him like a child on the phone, in spite of all the money he has made for Tony and Johnny Boy before him. Christopher, cold and (he'll never admit this) scared of Valery out there in the dark, just listens as Paulie lets vent of his feelings: in spite of everything he has done for Tony, the current golden child is Ralphie who brings in so much money it largely forgives him his many transgressions while Paulie makes one little mistake like trying (and failing) to murder a guy on a simple cash pick-up, losing him in the woods and getting lost and he doesn't hear the end of it! Christopher asks for a share of the "blanket" so he can go to sleep, wisely not joining Paulie in bitching about the Boss of the Family. He's all ears though when Paulie says he has a plan to get out: they're in a van, it had to get here somehow, so if they find a road they can walk out of there. Christopher points out that the "road" seems to end at the trees ahead of them, and rejects Paulie's suggestion he give him his shoes so he can walk out for both of them. Christopher isn't dumb, there's no way he's going to let Paulie abandon him. An angry Paulie asks what HIS plan then? Christopher is still starving and his only "plan" is that they should have gone to Roy Rogers. Pissed off, Paulie calls Tony again, rejecting Christopher's warning that he is going to piss him off, after all, they're gonna die out here! Tony is enjoying the fire and some wine while wearing the Moroccan robe Gloria bought him, just chilling on the couch while she tries to salvage the London Broil. Christopher was right, he's pissed to see that Paulie is calling him again, but Paulie doesn't lose his courage as he demands that Tony come rescue them somehow. How can he do that if THEY don't even know where they are? So Paulie shouts that they came in through Exit 12, and Christopher adds in that it was called Pike's Hollow. He can come to there and drive up a dirt road to the picnic tables, that's where they parked and maybe the van they're in is on the same road? When he gets there he can just start yelling and they'll find him!  Tony is pissed but there's a strange logic to Paulie's plan, so he asks him to put Christopher on. Through the interference bringing in multiple other callers, he hears Christopher complain he has a concussion and starts thinking maybe he really does need to come rescue these two idiots. He tells them to hang in there, while Christopher begs him to bring food and Paulie demands shoes. In the background, Gloria gulps back a wine, overhearing Tony's half of the conversation and obviously not pleased at the way it is going. When he pulls off his robe and tells her he has to go, she slams the London Broil on the table and demands to know if he thinks she is just some whore: she made him dinner and he ruined it, she's just salvaged it and now he's leaving AGAIN!?! Confused as to why she is reacting so strongly (after all, he said he was sorry!) he tells her to calm down, and when she rants about how he just came over to gently caress her and leave he sees no benefit to sticking around to argue and just turns to leave. Lifting the steak, she hurls it across the room and it slams into the back of his neck (director Steve Buscemi - yes, that Steve Buscemi - was the one who tossed it at Gandolfini) and he twists around in a cold fury that makes her step back. Uninterested in hashing this out with her (after all, there's an element of truth to her complaint that she's just somebody he fucks), he declares he doesn't have time for this poo poo and walks out. She screams that she hates him at the closing door, then like a child throwing a tantrum she slaps the glasses and plates off the table, tears off the table cloth and leaves her kitchen a mess. Outside Jackie's apartment, Meadow sits in the car with Ambujam, who wisely drove her after seeing she was in no physical state to drive. Still holding back tears, Meadow voices her fear that Jackie is cheating on her, while Ambujam is of no doubt that his car inspection story is obvious bullshit. But Meadow is already second-guessing herself, doesn't sneaking after him to spy on him make her as bad as him? Maybe they should go? Ambujam rolls her eyes, this isn't the first (and won't be the last) time she's seen some otherwise smart young woman get twisted up over some good-looking rear end in a top hat. Junior Soprano is also up, making himself tea as he waits for Tony to arrive after getting a call asking for Bobby Baccalieri to come help him. Tony arrives, apologizing for waking him, but Junior notes he spends most of his nights up getting sick from the chemo in any case. Junior is confused by the smell of steak coming from Tony, who tiredly just asks if he can borrow a shirt to replace his own. He pulls out a bottle of Johnny Walker to drink, then breaks into giggles as Bobby enters the room dressed in camo-gear and a high vis vest (Steven Schirripa actually walked in wearing a strap-on dildo in order to garner the genuine reaction from James Gandolfini). Bobby is offended, he's been hauled out of bed and brought out in the middle of the night simply to be laughed at? He tries to leave in a huff but Junior demands he come back and do what his nephew asks of him. Tony heads to Junior's room to change his shirt, while Bobby sighs and warns Junior that he has his limits too. At Jackie's, the lights go out and Ambujam tells Meadow to be strong. Jackie leaves the apartment, accompanied by a blonde, and it's all Meadow needs to see. She leaps out of the car and confronts a shocked Jackie, asking how he could do this to her, she loved him. The blonde is pissed, who the gently caress is she? "gently caress you, bitch!" offers Ambujam helpfully as she steps out of the car too, and as the blonde turns to talk poo poo to her, Meadow tells Jackie she never wants to hear from him again. She races back to the car and Ambujam drives her out of there as the blonde sneers that she better run. Jackie is freaking out though, warning her that this is Tony Soprano's daughter (not his girlfriend, not the woman he loves, no his fear is that he's pissed off Tony). She doesn't give a poo poo, now that Meadow and Ambujam are gone her anger is turned on Jackie, after all you can guarantee he didn't mention anything about a girlfriend to her.   His shirt changed, Tony drives her and Bobby towards Exit 12. He's surprised about Bobby's knowledge of the woods and hunting, and Bobby reveals a childhood that Tony probably envies: in spite of his father being a legendary assassin, he also frequently took Bobby on hunting trips where they clearly has a loving relationship and formed cherished memories. Tony makes a genuine apology for laughing at Bobby earlier, and now that the moment has passed Bobby is happy to forgive him. He offers a fantastic dad-joke ("We saw a sign that said Bear Left, so we went home!") that falls flat with Tony, but Tony does again show genuine gratitude when he thanks him for his help with Junior. Their less than amicable initial relationship has been smoothed over by familiarity, and Bobby who once complained that he "inherited" Junior admits that he's come to value him and sometimes wishes he was his Uncle too. Tony would envy the relationship that Bobby had with his father, but it seems Bobby envies the respect that Junior holds Tony in too: he wishes he had somebody like that who thought so highly of him. Tony is surprised and doesn't quite believe that Junior so openly loves him and speaks well of him, but Bobby insists it is true. It probably is too, ever since Richie Aprile failed to set up a coup and Junior decided to stick with Tony, his appreciation/support of Tony hasn't really wavered. It's food for thought for Tony, after all it wasn't that long ago that Junior tried to have him killed. In the van, Christopher wakes up and asks an oddly quiet Paulie what time it is. Paulie answers it it 4:30, but can't help but reveal he has Tic Tacs in his mouth as he does so. Christopher is furious, he as Tic Tacs!?! Paulie insists he only just found them and has just eaten them all so there are none left. Christopher, disgusted, declares he is going to go outside and eat the berries off the bush they passed after all... if they're poison, at least he won't die hungry! Tony and Bobby arrive at the picnic tables that Paulie told Tony about, but there is no sign of their car. They wouldn't have left without calling him though, so he tries to call and speak with Tony, but the interference is too heavy and the battery too low, and the call cuts off. Christopher runs up to the door and smacks on the window, asking what Tony said, but Paulie doesn't know. Tired and fed up, Christopher starts to take a piss in the snow, ignoring Paulie's protests that he go piss over on his side of the van. When Christopher offers back a grumpy,"gently caress you," he threatens to pull rank, but Christopher hits him with another gently caress you, after all whether he's a Captain or not, right now they're just two assholes lost in the woods. Their argument escalates as Christopher asks if Paulie plans to choke him to death if he goes back to sleep, and reveals that he overheard him on the phone earlier in the evening when he tried to blame the Valery debacle on him. Paulie flies into another rage at these accusations, and declares he'll choke him right now before proceeding to do exactly that, grabbing Christopher around the throat and shaking him... until Christopher pulls his gun on him. Paulie instantly releases him, hands up, asking his beloved friend Christopher if he really thinks he would kill him. The trouble is, Christopher absolutely does.... but as he stands with his gun pulled on him, the two of them a bloody and disheveled (and one-shoed!) mess, the utter absurdity of their situation finally hits him. He laughs in concussed glee, Paulie watching wide-eyed and nervous, not quite knowing exactly where this is going, certainly not seeing the joke that Christopher is. He asks Christopher to promise he won't leave him here in the middle of nowhere and with great sincerity Christopher - who seems to think they've reached some beautiful shared moment - assures him he won't before he heads back around his own side of the van, still laughing.   Tony honks his car horn and bellows for Paulie and Christopher, but there is no answer. Bobby says there is no point going searching for them in the dark, they'll simply wait for first light and then go on the hunt. 5:50 in the morning, Meadow is in the infirmary after her late night trip ruined any recovery from her flu she'd had. Ambujam reads a magazine beside her as Caitlin arrives, the surprisingly level-headed and normal seeming one for a change as she commiserates with Meadow after learning about what happened (Ambujam is sure to throw in that the blonde was a real whore, too!). Caitlin tells Meadow that Jackie wasn't worthy of her and offers a shocking accurate assessment of his qualities... he was cute, but we was really boring! Meadow though is weeping for the fantasy version of Jackie in her head, sobbing that they don't understand how great he was. Daylight finally breaks and Christopher and Paulie leave the van, Paulie having fashioned a "shoe" with a section of the carpet. They move down the road, Christopher still bundled in carpet, Paulie insisting that whichever way they go, they don't stop till they hit cement. As they move out, Tony and Bobby are moving in, Bobby tells stories that his father used to share with him about the area: it was apparently once home to a group of albinos known as the Jackson Whites. Tony bellows out for Paulie and Christopher, but there is still no answer. They're wandering half-frozen through the woods with no idea where they're going, Paulie looking like Jack Nicholson in The Shining. They're talking about Dennys, their plans to go straight there and eat five Grand Slam breakfasts. Tony slips and trips, his "shoe" has already come loose and his fingers are too frozen to retie the knot. Losing his cool, he tears it off and pulls his gun, shooting it in impotent fury. Behind them and going the other way, Tony and Bobby overheard the gunshots and Bobby identifies it as not coming from any deer hunter. He fires his own rifle into the air as Tony calls out, and Paulie and Christopher hear it and come running, shouting out for TOny as well, so desperate for rescue that they literally throw their hands up and wave them about as if signaling a plane. Spotting each other across a clearing, Christopher rushes to embrace Tony, who steps back to get a close look at his (dried) bloody forehead. Paulie catches up and glosses over answering what he was shooting at, and Tony and Bobby help Christopher and Paulie respectively make their way back to the car, Bobby not quite able to believe they're this hosed up after only a single night in the woods. Arriving back at the car, they eagerly bundle in and ask for the heat to be turned on. This is definitely where they left Paulie's car but it is nowhere to be seen, and now that Tony is satisfied they are safe he has to consider the ramifications of their gently caress-ups, and that includes pondering WHO stole the car. Inside, Christopher pulls open a cooler (from Davey Scatino's store?) and grabs out sandwiches to eat. Bobby suggests it was probably kids who stole the car, but Christopher blurts out what only just occurred to him... what if it was Valery? Paulie casts him a dirty look, but it is out in the open now. Tony asks another pertinent question, where is the $5000? Paulie shamefacedly admits that the money was in the car too, and with that disturbing smile Tony reserves for when he is REALLY angry, he quietly notes that this was all he asked Paulie to do. Not to kill Valery, or take him into the Pine Barrens, or get lost, or haul him away from his mistress in the middle of the night. Just to pick up some money and leave. Paulie promises that he had no choice, it couldn't be helped, and Christopher backs him when he says that Valery simply lunged at them out of nowhere. Tony considers the situation for a moment, then asks Bobby if Valery could possibly survive and make it out. His reply isn't that helpful, a headshot no but a flesh-wound maybe, but on the other hand who can say? So Tony decides to delegate, and hands Paulie a big bucket of poo poo to drink: he is a Captain, that comes with a responsibilities. If he chooses, they'll go back into the woods and hunt Valery down, either living or a corpse. If he chooses, they'll simply drive home and leave Valery to fate. The decision is HIS, not Tony's. So Paulie considers and finally says gently caress it, let's just go home. Tony nods, the decision has been made... but with it comes the repercussions. If Valery was to ever crawl out from some rock and cause them strife in the future, it will be Paulie who suffers the consequences with Slava. Paulie agrees, and they drives out of the Pine Barrens and back towards civilization in an uncomfortable silence. Christopher eats, Bobby muses quietly, and Tony and Paulie brood. When Tony points out that Paulie has mayonnaise on his chin, his tone is aggressive and condescending and Paulie can't help but hear it. They're alive, Valery is probably dead, and Paulie has been given the authority and responsibility he felt was his due after being treated like an errand boy... but as they drive, the one man you would have once considered Tony Soprano's most ardent supporter sits fuming, feeling an obvious resentment towards his Boss.  The seeds have been sown for a rift that will be exploited in the weeks and months to come, with lethal consequences. Before the episode ends, I'd just like to say that this episode's high reputation is well-deserved. Paulie and Christopher are scene-stealers of course, but there is so much fascinating stuff going on around them as well between Tony and Gloria, but also Tony and Carmela and even Tony and Junior (albeit via the burgeoning relationship with Bobby). Plus there's the undeniable final proof of Jackie's stupidity via the Scrabble game, and of course the break-up with Meadow, all of which will have great consequences going forward. But it is the double-act of Christopher and Paulie that delights so much, described in some ways as a hosed up Waiting for Godot where they talk on a variety of subjects while waiting for somebody who never arrives. You could debate the ultimate fate of Valery till the cows come home and never come to an answer (David Chase apparently detested that people wouldn't shut up about it, and refused to write any kind of closure as a gently caress you to them) and I think it is irrelevant. What is relevant is Paulie's physical decline (his hair is glorious) and his growing realization that his years of loyalty and work mean nothing next to money, and how closely he and Christopher parallel each other. They are essentially the same person at different points in their career, and watching them spark off each other is a sheer delight. The episode ends with an aria that will open the next episode. But not before Tony Soprano attends one more therapy session where he is furious at Melfi for not warning him that Gloria was hosed in the head and so quick to jump from loving to a complete mess. Melfi keeps her calm but is not willing to accept blame for something Tony bullishly slammed into headfirst despite her obvious warning signs. Tony's rage fades and he pouts that everything always has to be so hard, sure he's not perfect but he does the right thing by his family (screwing multiple mistresses and various strippers?) and that should count for something. Rather than ripping apart that bullshit justification, she instead pushes to get to the root of the problem. Wanting to guide him to a breakthrough but frustrated by his half-assed attempts at therapy, she tries to make it as obvious as possible. What attracted him to Gloria in the first place? Not the obvious sex appeal, but what connects Gloria with, for example, Irina? Depressive personalities, unstable, impossible to please... do these traits remind him of any other particular woman in his life? For a moment, just the briefest of moments, you see the dawn of comprehension in Tony's eyes. But then it is gone, whisked away by his conscious mind in rejection of the obvious but the unacceptable. His eyes dart to the side, he shakes his head and shrugs. For now, consciously at least, he cannot see that Livia Soprano's iron hold over his psyche has not slackened in the slightest since her death. Season 3: Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood | Proshai, Livushka | Fortunate Son | Employee of the Month | Another Toothpick | University | Second Opinion | He Is Risen | The Telltale Moozadell | ...To Save Us All from Satan's Power | Pine Barrens | Amour Fou | Army of One Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2019 14:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1OtWdYXTAQ Excellent write-up as usual!
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Jun 25, 2019 14:36
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| # ? May 21, 2024 14:54 |
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Fun fact - this is the only time Tony Siroco let the on-set hairdresser touch his hair. Every other time he saw his barber the day of filming.
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Jun 25, 2019 14:44
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