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Yeah I've been bouncing back between PZ and CDDA over the past few years, playing them in spurts. PZ definitely does zombie survival stuff better, but cataclysm just has such bizarre mechanics & so much weird content that it keeps me sort of passively interested
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Apr 27, 2019 23:16
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So I gotta ask. I have the feeling I know the answer, but I need it confirmed: With the stomach fill mechanic, does this mean you can be in the paradox of being hungry/starving, but cannot eat cause your stomach is full?
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Apr 28, 2019 01:10
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Cataclysm has by far the best vehicle creation and destruction system I've ever seem. It's amazing to me that more games don't emulate it.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:05
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goatsestretchgoals posted:I got back into Project Zomboid recently, and it’s scratching the CDDA itch. Development is still active. Vehicles are in and base building is strangely satisfying. Most of us probably have it in our Steam library, fire it up again! is it actually fun to play yet? last time i played it, it didnt seem to have anything to do really. like it had crafting recipes and stuff you could forage, but every house would have literally two items in it, so i'd wander around with a pile of cooking pots before starving to death
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Apr 29, 2019 00:09
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dylguy90 posted:Cataclysm has by far the best vehicle creation and destruction system I've ever seem. It's amazing to me that more games don't emulate it. Cataclysm's vehicle system is hands-down the most impressive thing about the game, and it's a crying shame that the only way to engage with that system is to deal with whatever other grindy simulationist bullshit the contributors are obsessed with this week. A Mad-Max-with-the-numbers-filed-off roguelike with C:DDA's vehicle system would be goddamn incredible.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:23
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Leal posted:So I gotta ask. I have the feeling I know the answer, but I need it confirmed: With the stomach fill mechanic, does this mean you can be in the paradox of being hungry/starving, but cannot eat cause your stomach is full? Yes. You could even argue this is the purpose of the system.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:33
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Angry Diplomat posted:Cataclysm's vehicle system is hands-down the most impressive thing about the game, and it's a crying shame that the only way to engage with that system is to deal with whatever other grindy simulationist bullshit the contributors are obsessed with this week. A Mad-Max-with-the-numbers-filed-off roguelike with C:DDA's vehicle system would be goddamn incredible. if the npc ai didnt suck it could be incredible. bandits pulling up along side and trying to shoot your tires out to rob you and drain your gas tank, your own followers shooting back etc
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Apr 29, 2019 02:14
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Larry Parrish posted:is it actually fun to play yet? last time i played it, it didnt seem to have anything to do really. like it had crafting recipes and stuff you could forage, but every house would have literally two items in it, so i'd wander around with a pile of cooking pots before starving to death Default “survival” settings are a complete crap shoot on whether you will find gear or not but you can tweak the loot frequency if you play sandbox mode.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:30
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Author of the battery overhaul here. In my defense, I originally proposed it as a mod.. Some of the main devs said to mainline it because "it was going to be anyhow". Also worth noting that it involves no new C++ code. It can be completely reversed with a JSON mod. Beyond that, I don't really know what to say besides I am sorry that it isn't enjoyable. I sincerely doubt that the cat can be placed back into the bag at this point in the master branch, though as I said, it can be fully reversed with nothing but JSON mods. Sounds like there is at least interest in that here.
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May 6, 2019 13:24
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I can't speak for most of the thread but personally my reaction to the battery thing was more because it got framed as symbolic of the larger overall trend towards realism at the cost of enjoyable gameplay. I think having actual batteries rather than what we had before, some sort of powdered battery units you just pour into devices, is not necessarily a bad change. I just think mechanically it doesn't feel all there yet and the result is a lot of balance and convenience problems that don't help the experience.
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May 6, 2019 13:50
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If they added a level 1 or level 2 electronics recipe that let me hook up a bunch of small batteries/big batteries/whatever to be used in tools that aren't strictly compatible I'd be a lot more accepting of this change and you could probably get that done with some real-life know how so it ought to be right up the designers alley. Edit- also I havent messed around with the game since this change for all I know they already did.
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May 6, 2019 14:02
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it mostly sounds like the magazine change where it's cool and better in theory but in reality theres just more annoying praying to RNGesus but maybe I'm wrong and its good
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May 6, 2019 14:10
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reignofevil posted:If they added a level 1 or level 2 electronics recipe that let me hook up a bunch of small batteries/big batteries/whatever to be used in tools that aren't strictly compatible I'd be a lot more accepting of this change and you could probably get that done with some real-life know how so it ought to be right up the designers alley. I did this, yes. There is also the "legacy migration" mod that lets you unload the old powder batteries from the new containers and put them into whatever you like, so you can still approximate the old system right now!
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May 6, 2019 15:38
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even in the case of non-C++ code there's a dozen of things i can think of off the top of my head that would make the game more engaging rather than less. book overhauls to make currently inaccessible things like the kung fu styles accessible. cooking recipe overhauls to add ancillary buffs or other attractiveness to prepared food. weapon overhauls to give each style of combat its own pattern of strengths and weaknesses that increase over time and have a clear progression in sophistication/damage. building overhauls to make every potential place on the map worth investigating in certain circumstances. the status quo is that unless you spend a bunch of points at chargen, the fun kung fu stuff is inaccessible and it cannot be a goal of the player - it is instead a cheat code for powergamers to min-max. food cooking is largely a matter of turning sketchy calories into good ones and ultimately there is little difference between thawing a frozen pizza and eating a carefully prepared feast. there's a small handful of weapons that are worthwhile - it's basically cudgel and knife spear to diamond studded boner of awesomeness because nothing else is worth touching. most buildings (such as schools, prisons, and nuclear sarcophagi) are effectively dead space in the game because there is no reason to ever go there unless you start there. they don't entail interesting spawns, unique challenges, or helpful loot. the most i can say for the above examples is that you could at least go to school to murder like 200 zombie children and deaden your morale loss when you kill them. if, instead of doing any of these things, or indeed any of a ton of other things that i cba to mention because i don't have more than a few minutes to think about it (which, incidentally, is the same reason i can't do it myself, i have a shitload of other commitments that all require my attention and care), you choose to add some crap that brings the fiddly, neurotic irritation of the vanilla gun system to electronics, yes, i will absolutely snark at you for having lovely priorities.
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May 6, 2019 17:01
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My gut reaction was battery electricity as juice you pour from one thing to another was already overly fiddly. Complicating it past that is going the wrong direction.
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May 6, 2019 17:07
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Schools are pretty nice for having a pretty good chance of picking up armorsmithing books and advanced electronics books I consider them worthwhile.
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May 6, 2019 17:29
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reignofevil posted:Schools are pretty nice for having a pretty good chance of picking up armorsmithing books and advanced electronics books I consider them worthwhile. Heck, give the prison a library and I'd go there in search of books.
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May 6, 2019 18:16
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as much as i don't think that's a good enough solution i'd definitely welcome it. ime it's a hundred times easier to just find a library or an apartment complex but if i was desperate then maybe i guess. certainly would be better than the primary challenge being one security drone and the primary loot being 'whatever the gently caress is in the kitchen'
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May 6, 2019 18:23
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Honestly just the fact that libraries tend to have zombie hulks and shocker brutes* and schools tend to have zombie kids with delicious powdered candy stick I much prefer clearing the school. Especially if I have a decently armored car. *I have since reviewed that shocker brutes aren't as strong as I once thought and I have concluded I still loving hate them as an enemy type and would that I had the know-how they would be significantly changed
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May 6, 2019 18:31
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I don't think the battery system change is as terrible as the hunger change, as the hunger change actively made the game worse. The new battery system isn't bad and the added recipes to work around it add a bit of interesting depth. Not my favorite change, but not the stupidity of eating or crafting tables.
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May 6, 2019 22:59
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Peachfart posted:crafting tables
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May 7, 2019 01:21
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Do all prisons have a chance to having a lab in them or is that just the lab starts I've done?
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May 7, 2019 05:45
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So does Kevin own this game. There’s a thread on the subreddit calling out the difficulty in implementing changes that Kevin doesn’t approve of. And the majority of the responses support him as the sole visionary driving the development since Whale left, and therefore owner of the GitHub. I wouldn’t know much of the games history not sure who Whale is or when he stopped development.
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May 9, 2019 11:05
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Kevin controls the current fork of it so he is final word on whatever changes get offered to it. He doesn't own the game as such because it is open source and you can always fork off your own version with blackjack and hookers. The trouble is maintaining a fork such that it stays relevant is time consuming so most people end up not bothering.
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May 9, 2019 23:15
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That seems to be the consensus among the active devs there. If you don’t like Kevin’s vision you should develop your own fork. I haven’t played since around the time thawing was added. Everything is getting too poop sockey.
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May 9, 2019 23:53
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that's how github works as a whole. if you don't like the way someone is going with a particular project, fork it and do whatever you want. there's no legal or structural hurdle that would stop people here from forking the project, modifying it so it's actually fun and has more content, popping up a website that calls kevin an rear end in a top hat, and provides a download to our fork. if you really, really want C:DDA to be better and more fun and cooler that's the path to go. what stops it from happening is that the people who would and could do that have practical hurdles, things like jobs, kids, bills, and ambitions that are bigger than this one game.
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May 10, 2019 01:06
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So game is still bad yes?
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Jun 26, 2019 03:47
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Tosca Cake posted:So game is still bad yes? It's good, just play the stable build though instead of the experimental.
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Jun 26, 2019 04:00
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Tosca Cake posted:So game is still bad yes? You tell me. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/31611 posted:Reduced the json significantly, with a target of "3 weeks with no bandages heals you to full from 1" Hope you like sitting around for a few weeks(that take 6 times as long with the timing changes) if a zombie damages you slightly.
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Jun 26, 2019 05:10
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Peachfart posted:You tell me. It's one of those kind of silly/annoying things - if the game is a grittier survival sim, then taking damage puts a strain on your food/water supply, which is a good thing. If it's more of an arcade-style run around and have fun in the apocalypse killing things, it's a really bad change. Either way, passing time isn't something trivial to do, as managing the food/water supply and reading or whatever requires micro, and you can't just queue up some basic activities for a week to heal up to full.
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Jun 26, 2019 05:45
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Peachfart posted:Hope you like sitting around for a few weeks(that take 6 times as long with the timing changes) if a zombie damages you slightly.
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Jun 26, 2019 09:22
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Yeah according to a reddit thread that's the time from 1 health & no bandage to full. Minor bandaged wounds should heal in a few days. This is all in line with the dev desire to make the game like DF - hard at "normal" difficulty. They argue that you can always mod or change start conditions to make it easier if you want. Filthy casual. It's still weird to me they want to turn a game that has zombies, triffids, Lovecraftian horrors, future atomic tech, killer robots, et all into a "realistic" survival game vs just, you know, making your own from scratch that didn't have all that bothersome "fun" or "action". Growing potatoes while hiding in a basement for a year, that's the stuff real games are made of!
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Jun 26, 2019 12:11
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C:DDA is a stunningly bad choice for a gritty innawoods survival simulator and every single design decision that actively slows down the rate at which players get to interact with the content is, has been, and will continue to be an objectively bad one. Neo Scavenger already exists, and is more fun as a Filthy Desperate Hobo Sim than C:DDA will ever be. There, I said it 
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Jun 26, 2019 12:25
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And UnReal World exists if you want your starvation simulator to be set in iron-age Finland with only the lightest of supernatural elements.
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Jun 26, 2019 12:26
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I think the action-y parts and the gritty parts could work together, but that would require the goal of implementing the gritty parts to not specifically be slowing the game down and gatekeeping the action-y parts. C:DDA has a strong concept of 'downtime' so having the player need to shift to downtime for a while while they recuperate isn't awful except that the content there is frontloaded, hasn't been touched in a long time, or useless. Having to go 'oh no, boss, your leg was almost torn off in that fight with the juggernaut' and hang around the base for a while wouldn't be terrible if you could spend your week or whatever of healing time working on improving your vehicle, or training skills, or making a super-weapon to go deal with that jerk juggernaut next time. You see a lot of this in the early game. The problem is, all of that content is frontloaded- you probably almost need to max from books 2-3 skills before you even leave the start of the game- and all the hints of it later just... don't exist, because that would require making content, not gatekeeping content. Other stuff like helping improve your base would be cool... but bases are all but useless, and all the things they could be used for would also require adding content. A lot of things in this game could be done during downtime to give the game a strong contrast between its high-action and chill downtime moments that'd probably work pretty well with the pace of the game, you'd just have to make them do that, not do the opposite of that. The idea of having injury add stakes to a fight other than 'you died y/n' is one I'm solidly behind... but, y'know, it's not there to add to the game. BlondRobin fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 16:30
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i'd also be fine with it if there were a better way to just pass the time. irl if you were that hurt you would spend most of your time in bed because sleep would be the only escape from the pain. but as it stands, simply having pain makes it harder to sleep and stay asleep and once you are 'well rested' you can't sleep at all. getting up every 4-8 hours to bandage, eat and drink and have that last for a week wouldn't matter so much if you could reliably go to bed when you are under 75% health or whatever. it would be like 5-8 minutes of play and half of that would just be finding a secure place to hole up and live on your supplies. it's kind of like the reading marathons. nobody cares that much about the reading marathons in practice even if they are maximum lame in theory because you effectively trade your stores of food and water for skills and the trade happens without you needing to babysit the process too much. you sit by a sunny window, you start reading, you stop about twice a day to eat and drink, you stop a third time to eat, drink, and sleep. you do that for a week in game or about 10 minutes in real time and you are good.
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Jun 26, 2019 17:13
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I think it's weird how big a factor "falling asleep is unreasonably hard" is in all this, but I definitely agree. Forcing yourself to get excess sleep when you're injured or sick is really not as hard as the game makes it out to be. I've had a character toss and turn for over 24 hours, which is just loving ridiculous in any context.
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Jun 27, 2019 00:54
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Vib Rib posted:I think it's weird how big a factor "falling asleep is unreasonably hard" is in all this, but I definitely agree. Forcing yourself to get excess sleep when you're injured or sick is really not as hard as the game makes it out to be. I've had a character toss and turn for over 24 hours, which is just loving ridiculous in any context. I think the problem is the game doesn't really have a "resting, but not sleeping" mode. You're either asleep, or you're awake. But yeah 24 hours of tossing and turning is pretty unrealistic. I have pretty bad insomnia and spend a lot of the night tossing and turning, but it's not 8 solid hours of it. It just means that the quality of sleep I get isn't very good and I'm tired a lot. It doesn't mean my body is incapable of healing wounds because I can't enter the magical sleep state which is apparently the only way you can recover from injury.
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Jun 27, 2019 02:35
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I tried the mobile version of Neo Scavenger recently and knowing where to go and what to do makes the mid-game boring. I have more fun scavenging stuff and hiding it from the locals. Edit: derp, this isn't the survival thread. I think Cataclysm's mid-game of skillbuilding and exploration would fit in nicely with Neo Scavenger. How hard would it be to stick both games in a blender? I brought my Drake fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 03:16
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I see that losing stamina now causes your character to become dehydrated, thirsty and in severe pain. Realism!
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Jun 27, 2019 21:03
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