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Gyrojet guns were abandoned because they couldn't hit a barn door at 20 yards. I'm not even exaggerating.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:13
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Well, that's how cyberbrains work in GitS (SAC, at least, I'm honestly not super familiar with the movies and haven't seen Arise at all). They're a shell around your natural brain, which is also augmented with nanostuff to a degree. Your natural brain is still inside there. Most first world citizens in SAC have one, generally speaking, with more than 99% of people in Japan in particular having one. Makoto isn't really special in that regard, she has a normal cyberbrain like everyone else, she's just "special" insofar as she was critically injured at a very young age, and was one of the first people to ever undergo full-body replacement, as well as one of the youngest to ever do so, so she had to grow up learning to use her cyborg body, rather than having such a procedure done as an adult, as virtually everyone else would, barring similar emergency/lifesaving necessity in children who would die otherwise (which is, of course, the only sane thing to do). So she's really, really good at the sort of high-level crazy physical performance cyborgs are capable of, but which has to be learned and practiced like pretty much any other high-level athletic capability. She's also really good at using her cyberbrain for hackery shenanigans due to having had one longer than most people, even if hers isn't really any different than anyone else's (though people that specialize in netrunning tend to have implants/bodies that reflect that to a degree, like more datajack ports, support structures around the skull to support the cyberbrain, or even big hulking inhuman bodies that give some advantage in...???...heat dissipation, or being able to be plugged into more support systems, or...something. So no, she has a "normal" cyberbrain, which in SAC is still your natural brain, but augmented. Even Togusa, who is notable on Section 9 for having no other augmentations, has one. The minister in the first episode of SAC had a normal one, too. One of the big advantages of the cyberbrain is obviously that they're designed to be fairly easily swapped into another body, with the right equipment on hand, which is what happened to the Minister in said first episode. She wouldn't have to give her brain back to the government, but she would have to give them her body, which, for someone whose entire identity is wrapped up in being a full-body cyborg, is a huge sacrifice, and even civilian baseline bodies are really expensive, with your average civilian that has one having to take out big loans to pay for it. ...plus, the government would probably wipe her memories before letting her go, too, given she knows way too much for them to be comfortable with and cyberbrains make that fairly easy to accomplish, so, you know, that's something she and the others would want to avoid.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:20
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They could, the accuracy wasn't an issue. The problem was that they kept accelerating after leaving the barrel, so if you were firing at a point blank target, the effect of the projectile was a fraction of what a conventional bullet would achieve. And it was super expensive.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:21
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Arglebargle III posted:Gyrojet guns were abandoned because they couldn't hit a barn door at 20 yards. I'm not even exaggerating. Largely because the stockpile of ammo made for these guns was hand made, which meant any mistake to the round would thow it off course. They had a handful machined factory rounds made when they sent it for military trial that supposedly fixed the problem, but none are known to still exist to test whether this is true or not.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:27
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EimiYoshikawa posted:It's important to always remember that Section 9 is The Man. They're the boot heel stamping on Cyberpunk faces. Yeah, this always amuses me....I too agree that GiTS seasons 1/2 (not familiar with Solid State) are some of the best cyberpunk stories EVER, but they are essentially THE anti-cyberpunk. You're not fighting the man....you ARE the man (granted, sometimes you end up fighting yourself, but the end goal is to better the system, or the man). You're not wild crazy anarchist criminal types...you're well-behaved(ish) cops. Hell Togusa is your typical family man. etc... mauman fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 03:32
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Yeah, to be fair, Section 9 are the theoretical "good cops" that are always seeking to fight corruption and the bad elements of government as much as they are criminals, and don't abuse innocent people...to a point. That point being that they're explicitly the tools of the government, and they WILL ultimately do what they're told by the higher ups, even if it means doing bad things. It's just that Aramaki always does his best to try to maneuver as much as they can to avoid as much of those bad things as possible...to a point. ...but they're still ultimately The Man.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:59
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Yeah, to be fair, Section 9 are the theoretical "good cops" that are always seeking to fight corruption and the bad elements of government as much as they are criminals, and don't abuse innocent people...to a point. That point being that they're explicitly the tools of the government, and they WILL ultimately do what they're told by the higher ups, even if it means doing bad things. It's just that Aramaki always does his best to try to maneuver as much as they can to avoid as much of those bad things as possible...to a point. I am reminded that the first Cyberpunk 2077 trailer made it look like we'd be playing as part of the Psycho Squad. I'm almost disappointed we're ending up with a crime story, even if it's more traditionally cyberpunk; I would've liked to see the inner workings of the police in cyberpunk dystopia. (The other things I remember about that trailer: the song being cool, the model they used for the woman in it being ridiculously attractive.)
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Jun 29, 2019 04:16
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Back Hack posted:Largely because the stockpile of ammo made for these guns was hand made, which meant any mistake to the round would thow it off course. They had a handful machined factory rounds made when they sent it for military trial that supposedly fixed the problem, but none are known to still exist to test whether this is true or not. There was also a production run where a large amount of ammo was made with one of the exhaust holes partially closed, causing the rocket exhaust to spin the bullet wildly off-course. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAXpyt8-oQ
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Jun 29, 2019 04:35
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Keep in mind that the gyroget fires by having a hammer hit the rocket on the nose, and recocks by the rocket pushing that hammer out of the way. It's beautiful in its sheer foolishness.
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Jun 29, 2019 04:47
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I wonder why they changed the Major's eyes from grey to brown in the TV show. Also what's with the ridiculous bathing suit getup? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 04:53
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The original music request was for "synthwave", but if we're shifting to "heavy/angry music which might fit into a cinematic cyberpunk universe", then I'm going to suggest Mors Principium Est's album Liberation = Termination. Especially the tracks * The Animal Within, which starts out sounding like some kind of 90s dance track until the double kick drums come in, but keeps the synths around through most of the track, and * Terminal Liberation, which is heavy all the way through, but drops everything out but echo-y synths at the halfway point before coming back twice as heavy spider wisdom posted:oddly enough, Johnny Silverhand is the most rockabilly name in this and all universes I can't agree with this, because the Presbyterian church pastor in the town I used to live in was, I poo poo you not, the Reverend Doctor J. Todd Speed. Edit: Pantera's Primal Concrete Sledge is super-heavy, super-angry, thrashy, it's only 2:13 long, and the lyrics are about the fundamental inequality of society. For a metal song, it's super loving punk, and if you can't set a chase/combat sequence to it, then you are a bad director/editor. mdxi fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 05:21
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Arglebargle III posted:I wonder why they changed the Major's eyes from grey to brown in the TV show. I'd imagine that the former is because her body model is patterned after one of the most common commercially available sorts on the market, to the point that in any large-ish crowd of people on an average day, you'd see three or four of "her" in there, and brown eyes play into that 'effectively unremarkable' thing since most people, even in an age of widespread cyberization, still prefer to look like "normal" humans. As for the latter, man, don't ask me. I was very glad that she started wearing proper clothing in 2nd GiG, and has a normal tactical outfit on most of her "working" clothes in SAC. On the one hand, Makoto isn't a shy person in pretty much any sense of the word, is pretty much 100% sexually liberated, and enjoys wearing "sexy" clothing in her off hours with her various lovers...on the other hand, it is, uh, kind of unprofessional, given none of the male members of Section 9 are walking around in banana hammocks. So I would probably say bad fanservice is the real reason, and I don't like it much.
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Jun 29, 2019 05:55
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It's cause the manga author is a loving perv. Seriously.
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Jun 29, 2019 05:58
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Neurosis posted:I am reminded that the first Cyberpunk 2077 trailer made it look like we'd be playing as part of the Psycho Squad. I'm almost disappointed we're ending up with a crime story, even if it's more traditionally cyberpunk; I would've liked to see the inner workings of the police in cyberpunk dystopia. (The other things I remember about that trailer: the song being cool, the model they used for the woman in it being ridiculously attractive.) Yeah, I came to it late, but that teaser trailer actually kind of made me want to play a psycho squad member, too. And CDPR was surprised by the HUGE interest the fanbase showed for Trauma Team, too, to the point where they've said it "affected their plans" in some manner. Apparently, we will be getting some sizeable DLC packages for the game, so who knows?
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Jun 29, 2019 05:58
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I have the late 90's or early 2000's Dark Horse release of the GitS graphic novel where the lesbian sex scene was removed.
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Jun 29, 2019 06:02
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Glenn Quebec posted:It's cause the manga author is a loving perv. Seriously. Well, I mean, aside from that, obviously.
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Jun 29, 2019 06:05
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Yeah, I came to it late, but that teaser trailer actually kind of made me want to play a psycho squad member, too. And CDPR was surprised by the HUGE interest the fanbase showed for Trauma Team, too, to the point where they've said it "affected their plans" in some manner. Apparently, we will be getting some sizeable DLC packages for the game, so who knows? BULLETS ARE THE BEAUTY OF THE BLISTERING SKY
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Jun 29, 2019 06:19
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EimiYoshikawa posted:on the other hand, it is, uh, kind of unprofessional She can make her number two punch himself in the face without even blinking, you think anyone's going to tell her what she can't wear?
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Jun 29, 2019 06:20
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Arglebargle III posted:Also what's with the ridiculous bathing suit getup? Iirc the accepted fanbase term is the 'battle teddy'. I found it really off-putting too - I want to like a lot of anime but it has too much... Anime poo poo that is childish and silly and reminds you jarringly you're watching a cartoon, a medium commonly associated with children. GitS has very little and is generally a decent sci fi aesthetic, but for the loving battle teddy.
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Jun 29, 2019 06:26
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so i have asked this question before in this thread but now that non lethal runs are super official. how hosed up could a harvester get before they died. like i watched the old 40 min demo the other day and they blow one of those dudes in half. could that dude survive since most of his head is robot poo poo. or that dude in the cinematic trailer.
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Jun 29, 2019 06:37
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It's weird because the movie and the show have such different tones. In the movie Makoto is like, experiencing a deep crisis. She's engaging in risky behavior in her off hours, doesn't seem to have any friends outside of work, is on call 24/7, doesn't change her clothes day to day, and can barely finish a conversation before staring off into space or leaving the room.. What we see of Tokyo looks pretty miserable. The old city is half-flooded and not reclaimed or cleaned up very well. There are flooded streets with tram cars just shoved off to the side and left to rust. What we see of nature is mostly polluted canals with billboard barges floating by. The landscapes are often overshadowed by monstrous aircraft and paired with unsettling music so you know we are not supposed to feel good about the condition of future Tokyo. To the extent that the movie is about a character, it is about Makoto questioning whether anything remains of her humanity and ultimately deciding to abandon her shadow life in favor of a new, unknown way of being. It's very cyberpunk. In Stand-Alone complex everything is bright, there's trees and shiny glass and steel building everywhere, Makoto has a personal life and a leotard that lifts and separates, and the tanks behave like preschoolers. Very jarring tonally if you watch it right after the movie.
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Jun 29, 2019 06:55
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Arise swings pretty far back to depressing. They're all war criminals.
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Jun 29, 2019 07:07
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Agnosticnixie posted:With the Battle Angel Alita rec, there's also in that vein a relatively short, somewhat hard to find French Argentinian show called Cybersix (the only copies I found on the net were spanish and french though) based on an Argentinian comic. Not anime but like a lot of french and southam stuff, apes a relatively similar aesthetic. Cybersix aired on Fox in the US in 2000, very briefly. I vaguely remember it as ghost in the Shell with Carmen Sandiago images, but for kids.
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Jun 29, 2019 07:08
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Protip: her name is Motoko.
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Jun 29, 2019 07:23
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Man, I keep doing that. All the time, for years, whenever I actually try and spell out her name, and I'm telling myself internally "don't get it wrong this time, dumbass". I just don't know why it is.
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Jun 29, 2019 07:30
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wiegieman posted:Keep in mind that the gyroget fires by having a hammer hit the rocket on the nose, and recocks by the rocket pushing that hammer out of the way. There are some definite hitches with this design of gyrojets on a conceptional level, but the overall idea behind caseless rocketed bullets has notable advantages over traditional ballistics. The problem isn't the idea itself, the problem is refinement; given a little time with R&D and gyrojets would be completely viable in all regards, course who would want to fund development for a type of gun that's only just comparable to traditional firearms when they work fine as is. There's a reason why Metalstorm never toke off (partially because they were absolutely retarded to reload).
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Jun 29, 2019 07:43
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I didn't think Makoto was right but I assumed other people knew better than me.
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Jun 29, 2019 08:00
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I lead you astray, sorry. It is Motoko, I just have this weird brain problem when it comes to her name, which I don't even have for other characters named Motoko in other works.
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Jun 29, 2019 08:02
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Shooting Blanks posted:Eh, I doubt it. They could just fabricate one and use FX to cover the shots. A bigger issue might be that it is distinctly an HK product and HK may be sue happy over it. Don't know that for sure but it seems likely Demolition Man included a G11 mock-up made from a real prototype loaned to the production. 
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Jun 29, 2019 08:02
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steinrokkan posted:It's not because it's hideous. It was adopted by the west german army
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Jun 29, 2019 08:18
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EimiYoshikawa posted:I'd imagine that the former is because her body model is patterned after one of the most common commercially available sorts on the market, to the point that in any large-ish crowd of people on an average day, you'd see three or four of "her" in there, and brown eyes play into that 'effectively unremarkable' thing since most people, even in an age of widespread cyberization, still prefer to look like "normal" humans. When was this mentioned? You're taking about SAC, right?
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Jun 29, 2019 09:34
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sebmojo posted:BULLETS ARE THE BEAUTY OF THE BLISTERING SKY I love that song, and the music video is pretty good, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6nbFZtxAL4
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Jun 29, 2019 09:43
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Rinkles posted:When was this mentioned? You're taking about SAC, right? I think it was mentioned in some interview with the director or something, but it wasn't really ever said on screen, true. I mean, the actual reason was probably more along the lines of 'we changed her design because we thought having grey eyes was dumb', I was just going for some no-prize thing there.
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Jun 29, 2019 11:54
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If you want a depressing Japan look no further than GITS: Innocence
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Jun 29, 2019 12:30
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Neurosis posted:I am reminded that the first Cyberpunk 2077 trailer made it look like we'd be playing as part of the Psycho Squad. I'm almost disappointed we're ending up with a crime story, even if it's more traditionally cyberpunk; I would've liked to see the inner workings of the police in cyberpunk dystopia. (The other things I remember about that trailer: the song being cool, the model they used for the woman in it being ridiculously attractive.) nice lady
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Jun 29, 2019 14:14
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Glenn Quebec posted:If you want a depressing Japan look no further than GITS: Innocence I like SAC's version. Still clearly dystopic as hell, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, but a country that's struggling with all its might to pretend that it's doing fine and everything's fine and don't look down that alley over there and don't look at this refugee ghetto and oh yeah just step over this person who's been shot multiple times lying in the middle of the sidewalk on your way to wherever it is you were going without slowing down just pretend it's like that time you were standing around and somebody hacked your eyes when they ran past you in that parka a few years ago. It seems more authentically Japanese Dystopic to me than the really overblown 'everything is poo poo now' versions of the movies. edit: I mean, not to mention that it still has the literally crumbling half-ruins full of the dispossessed and desperate clanking masses with third-hand obvious chrome...it's just that that's NewTokyo, which the rest of the country tried building after Old Tokyo got nuked in WWIII and then mostly eaten by climate change's rising sea levels, whereas New Tokyo, full of crime out of the worst Cyberpunk warzone neighborhoods, was built full of optimism near by, and is constantly being nibbled away at by said rising sea levels, too. The capital where we've been seeing our "heroes" operating out of and meeting with the PM since then? Some other city entirely, a fictional hastily-built metroplex version of Niihama (which, in real life, has a population of under a hundred fifty thousand right now). It's not that SAC doesn't have Depressing Japan, it's just that we don't see it as often, most of the time, because even Section 9 would usually prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and spend as little time there as possible. And if there's anything that's Cyberpunk, its a majority of people living therein pretending that things aren't as bad as they really are. Aoi fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 29, 2019 |
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Jun 29, 2019 14:23
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Isn't 'protagonist policeman in a cyberpunk future' just all the Deus Exs?
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Jun 29, 2019 14:24
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Yeah but with psycho squad it’s probably for the best if the dog stays on its leash
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Jun 29, 2019 14:25
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Isn't 'protagonist policeman in a cyberpunk future' just all the Deus Exs? Sort of. Jensen still wants to think of himself as a cop, despite being drummed out of the force for not massacring a bunch of unarmed children. Denton was more or less raised by the illuminati to be one of their elite agents, though he did think it meant being what was effectively a (special) police officer, but learned otherwise very quickly. How much he rebels at the truth is up to the player, of course, just like how much Jensen holds to his old values, rather than turning into a spinning blade of invisible exploding death depends on the playstyle, too. Either way, neither of them are terribly cooperative with the non-policeman entities that turn out to be their real masters, whether it's a half-deluded-as-to-still-being-a-good-person corporate CEO or, well, the frickin' Illuminati.
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Jun 29, 2019 14:40
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Seeing as the Psycho Squad are convicts with a badge, it wouldn't be out there to end up as one - even if only as a temporary main quest deal. One of the biggest bosses they could throw at you is someone suffering from severe cyber-psychosis, someone that takes too many augments, loses their sense of self and snaps considering anything alive, usually those with way less cyberparts as they, to be inferior creatures that deserve to be slashed to pieces. So basically a near or possibly total machine human, armored like a tank with god knows what in their body running around massacring anyone in the vicinity - possibly even eating the flesh or the parts to add to themselves like a cyberwindigo. (Particularly the former if the psycho is heavily bioware augmented and hunting specific genetic material as I'm sure that's as possible as with going insane from too much cyberware enhancements.) You could end up busted and tried by a corp and thrown to MAX-TAC.
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