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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It’s weird how every show in tv is now about remarkable people who work with the police. I had the premise of Lucifer explained to me recently, and I wasn’t even surprised when I heard that the Neil Gaiman nightclub devil from 90s comics gladly helps the pigs in 2019. Procedurals are still a thing because it's pretty much the only acceptable way to make a Network TV show that can be rerun endlessly in syndication barely caring about episode order in the age of streaming. And even that is slowly starting to get infected with lame metaplots clearly trying to draw in the aforementioned streaming crowd (the lame ones from Castle come to mind).
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Jul 6, 2019 10:45
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BioEnchanted posted:An actual Star Trek thing relevant to the thread - Troi's love interest in "The Price" is a total creep in the way that the 80s and 90s found romantic. He's so handsy and pushy. Man speaking of, I threw Jurassic Park on the other night and had the same reaction to Dr Malcolm. Like there have been several #MeToo articles in the Jurassic Park universe written about that guy
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Jul 6, 2019 11:33
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purple death ray posted:Man speaking of, I threw Jurassic Park on the other night and had the same reaction to Dr Malcolm. Like there have been several #MeToo articles in the Jurassic Park universe written about that guy Isn't Dr. Malcolm just a generic rear end in a top hat? He does that little water drop trick on Ellie while hitting on her, but then slinks back to his Ford Explorer. I always thought he was meant to be something of a joke in that he's supposed to be an expert on chaos theory either because of or despite the fact his personal life is chaotic. His theories on the park are right this time, but he probably says 'life will find a way' about everything he's a consultant on.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:21
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Krispy Wafer posted:Isn't Dr. Malcolm just a generic rear end in a top hat? He does that little water drop trick on Ellie while hitting on her, but then slinks back to his Ford Explorer. He was the author self insert in the book.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:24
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:He was the author self insert in the book. Hey, at least he was self aware about how annoying he was to everyone.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:30
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Actually he didn't have sex with a woman much younger than himself in the book so maybe he wasn't the self insert.
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Jul 6, 2019 13:35
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:He was the author self insert in the book. And his mouthpiece, going on rants about science's hubris while high on morphine. The movie is a massive improvement in terms of characterization for most of the cast, and that includes realizing that Malcolm is much more tolerable as Jeff Goldblum playing his usual self-depreciating nerd goof. To Crichton's credit, Malcolm's persona mostly makes sense in-universe: Gennaro brought him there precisely because he's a famous pop science diva, which is better for convincing people than a dry analysis of the parc's failures, considering that the parc itself is all about shallow spectacle. YaketySass has a new favorite as of 13:46 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 13:36
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The book was terrible compared to the movie. It's one of those cases where you really shouldn't think too hard about the science. Crichton literary skills peaked with 'The Great Train Robbery'. Also if you go to his official website it's a big picture of Crichton in full 80's douche mode in front of a CRT monitor of his face.
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Jul 6, 2019 15:25
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I like Crichton's work well enough. A lot of it certainly isn't great (and some of it is pretty awful, god I hated Congo), but it makes for decent enough "got time to waste" weekend reading.
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Jul 6, 2019 15:50
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AngryRobotsInc posted:I like Crichton's work well enough. A lot of it certainly isn't great (and some of it is pretty awful, god I hated Congo), but it makes for decent enough "got time to waste" weekend reading. Go away ugly gorilla
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Jul 6, 2019 16:17
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Movie John Hammond is a more interesting character too because while he's mainly a kindly old grandpa with a child-like sense of wonder in bringing dinosaurs back to life he still has an unscrupulous side to him where he's willing to cut corners to achieve his ambition which is one of the major reasons why everything goes to poo poo so quickly. In the book he's just a straight up rear end in a top hat with no absolutely redeeming qualities.
Accordion Man has a new favorite as of 16:23 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 16:19
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Hammond gets eaten to death in the book too. Book Malcolm dies too but he gets better sometime between JP and The Lost World.
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Jul 6, 2019 16:25
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sassassin posted:A fandom can keep itself fresh by iterating and re-referencing itself but that means literally nothing to a show unless it's still running and the authors try to engage with its fanbase in turn, with usually awful results. I meant to show as a property in culture, not direct feedback to the original product.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:01
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Detective No. 27 posted:Book Malcolm dies too but he gets better sometime between JP and The Lost World. I thought he got chomped on by compy's and then I read The Lost World and he's just like back to being an a-hole.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:10
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Book Dr Wu got his entrails ripped out by raptors, who started eating him before he was even dead. Probably where that line in the movie came from, now that I think about it.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:11
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FilthyImp posted:Right! Hammond gets slowly eaten alive by compys, Malcolm dies of an infection right before they escape. Wu never dies in the movie, and they actually brought him back for Jurassic World, which expanded on one of the more interesting ideas in the original book: Since the dinos are a genetic construction of what we think they were like, why not go farther and create ones that are new and different? I was a complete Crichton nerd in middle school.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:15
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hyperhazard posted:Hammond gets slowly eaten alive by compys, Malcolm dies of an infection right before they escape. The problem is it doesn’t really do anything with other than generic military plot
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Jul 6, 2019 17:19
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Dr Christmas posted:I had to make a Pinterest to find this, I hope you jackals appreciate it: mustaches aren't bishounen so
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Jul 6, 2019 18:03
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Krispy Wafer posted:Hey, at least he was self aware about how annoying he was to everyone. Honestly after reading the book I'm really not sure about that. Jurassic Park was really interesting because it spends the first third or so setting up a clear and obvious villain in 1980s style free market capitalism and then takes a hard right turn into a drugged out Malcolm railing at the idea of scientific discovery and I don't remember the whole "hey we cut corners at every possible turn to save a couple bucks on our dangerous dinosaur theme park" issue being directly addressed in the text once things get rolling.
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Jul 6, 2019 19:03
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Zebulon posted:Pretty sure Armin is on record as going for the role of Quark explicitly to try and unfuck the horrible stereotype he helped bring to life. Thankfully the DS9 writing team helped a lot with that. I think Rom and Nog really did a better job of that one. Granted the biggest snag with the Ferengi is that they really don't make good villains like the Klingons, Romulans, or Cardassians did. Yeah the Ferengi were greedy as hell but they were paradoxically ultimately more trustworthy than you'd expect. They didn't break contracts and knew that screwing over customers too hard made them not want to come back ever. The rules of acquisition even had a rule about regular customers being the most valuable thing you could possibly have in a business. The Ferengi overall were generally more calculating than actually predatory. They'd much rather sell you poo poo then fight you. Since they only cared about profit they'd do pretty much whatever you wanted so long as you paid them enough. Of course you could also do really interesting things with them with a character like Rom. He was a horrible failure as a businessman so Quark kept him out of actual business ventures for his own good. Then it turns out he was actually a good engineer despite being an awkward dingus. So him and his son quit hanging around other Ferengi so much and hang around the Federation and Bajorans instead.
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Jul 6, 2019 19:45
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The Ferengi were caricatures of capitalism that ironically weren't as bad as real capitalism as people are/were experiencing it and ended up rather toothless as a result.
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Jul 6, 2019 19:49
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I think Rom and Nog really did a better job of that one. Granted the biggest snag with the Ferengi is that they really don't make good villains like the Klingons, Romulans, or Cardassians did. Yeah the Ferengi were greedy as hell but they were paradoxically ultimately more trustworthy than you'd expect. They didn't break contracts and knew that screwing over customers too hard made them not want to come back ever. The rules of acquisition even had a rule about regular customers being the most valuable thing you could possibly have in a business. The Ferengi overall were generally more calculating than actually predatory. They'd much rather sell you poo poo then fight you. Since they only cared about profit they'd do pretty much whatever you wanted so long as you paid them enough. The thing is that Quark, Rom, and Nog are considered TERRIBLE Ferengi because they aren't as focused on traditional Ferengi values: maximizing profit. Quark admits that he is a people person. Rom is a brilliant engineer who is more interested in tinkering than business. Nog is deathly afraid of becoming a bumbling failure like his father. Ferengi make good villains if you allow them to show the evils of capitalism. HOWEVER, given that most of the famous Ferengi were played by Jewish actors, it...uh...implied something much worse. I'm glad DS9 gave them a chance to move away from it and show that Ferengi are just another Federation conversion success story (hell, Species 8472 include Ferengi in their Starfleet Academy simulation). Root beer is a hell of a drug.
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Jul 6, 2019 19:56
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I liked it when Nog owned Jake about asking him for money if it wasn't important. The baseball card episode I think. That was a good episode.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:08
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The real point is that Ferengi, on the whole, aren't good Ferengi. They're caught in a game that isn't really good for anyone. The only person who seems to have an honest-to-god knack for it is Ishka, who doesn't care about it and only sees it as a means to an end for gender equality.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:14
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From the clips I've seen of DS9 it seems that the space stations have similar effects on the characters as the internet has had on earth - in bringing species together that never would have interacted, it results in them being less obsessed with their own prejudices and more willing to be curious about others. In effect, none of the characters are "Good xs" - all the main ferengi are bad at business but have other interests, Odo has developed an unnatural affection for other lifeforms that put him at odds with the other changelings, and it seems other characters follow similar patterns. I haven't seen the Cardassians yet but it seems Garak is atypical of them as well. Haven't got to DS9 yet properly, still on season 3 of next generation, but looking forward to it. (Just watched the episode with Lal) BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 20:30 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 20:28
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Garak is both more and less atypical of his species than you might expect. But a big part of ds9 was showing that the aliens are not molocultures. Ghemor is not Evek is not Rejal is not Kovat just because they're all Cardassian.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:35
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I mean the joke is essentially that there's the conquering goth lizard people, only get this, this one -- 
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Jul 6, 2019 20:42
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I really liked the episode with Riker serving on the Klingon ship, his interactions with the second officer were cool. Klingon 2nd Officer (on admitting his feelings about his father): "We... would not know how..." "Until this assignment, I didn't know how to eat Pa'ak." Also the thing with the Klingon women was funny. "They are curious how you would... endure." "With one? Or Both?  "
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Jul 6, 2019 20:47
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BioEnchanted posted:Also the thing with the Klingon women was funny. "They are curious how you would... endure." "With one? Or Both? I like that, for a split second, the Klingons believe him.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:53
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tbh I think there's a lot of the Minbari from B5 in how DS9 approached the Cardassians (as opposed to TNG), where there's ostensibly a three-pronged government (military/cultural purity+justice/civilian) but the ostensibly representative civilian government seems to be pretty thoroughly defanged. It's never as fleshed out as the Minbari in B5 though so at times it basically makes no sense or you're simply not given enough information to construct a meaningful vision of what's going on there. Kind of a problem in an intergalactic politics show until they break down and lean into the pew pews.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:59
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I do find it funny how many Klingon's try to do subterfuge and are so surprised when the other Klingon party doesn't submit. How are the Klingons so surprised that Worf and his Brother are willing to die for their father's reputation? They should know better than anyone that all threatening a Klingon's life will result in is "Fine, then I will die by the side of those I am loyal to" It's like "Worf, you can still run from this fight..." "You're kidding? You seriously think a Klingon will run away from a fight? Wow you are dumb, like Romulan levels of underestimating your opponent..." BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 21:19 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 21:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:'Consultant for the cops/CIA' is basically a standard TV show job now. Spider-man's leaned a bit too much into that for a character who's meant to be hated by most of the media. That’ll change soon enough I think. Right now Spider-Man’s on the whole “people would love the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man” swing, but eventually it will get too divorced from the underdog aspect of his character and it’ll snap back. Being on friendly terms with the NYPD instead of being hunted by them is just a part of that trend.
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Jul 6, 2019 21:18
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Great Metal Jesus posted:Honestly after reading the book I'm really not sure about that. Jurassic Park was really interesting because it spends the first third or so setting up a clear and obvious villain in 1980s style free market capitalism and then takes a hard right turn into a drugged out Malcolm railing at the idea of scientific discovery and I don't remember the whole "hey we cut corners at every possible turn to save a couple bucks on our dangerous dinosaur theme park" issue being directly addressed in the text once things get rolling. I read the book, but it's been a long time. I don't even recall Hammond dying or what happened to Malcolm. Did they cut corners? The movie seemed more about industrial sabotage than ineptitude. Ineptitude beyond you know, breeding raptors. Great Train Robbery is still his best work. I had to go back and verify none of it actually happened. It reads like true crime.
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Jul 6, 2019 21:40
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How long until we have Superman doing the iconic "Zoom in front of a speeding bullet and be a human shield" thing, but instead of a gangster in a pinstripe suit opening fire on a bank, he's standing in front of a cop opening fire on a black teenager?
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Jul 6, 2019 21:43
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he's already done that but for alien refugees getting shot at by cops and then the cops smugly ask, like word-for-word, 'why would you, an american hero, care about gross immigrant aliens?'
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Jul 6, 2019 21:51
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Elfface posted:How long until we have Superman doing the iconic "Zoom in front of a speeding bullet and be a human shield" thing, but instead of a gangster in a pinstripe suit opening fire on a bank, he's standing in front of a cop opening fire on a black teenager? I'm all for this because it'd make terrible people angry.
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Jul 6, 2019 22:15
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Krispy Wafer posted:I read the book, but it's been a long time. I don't even recall Hammond dying or what happened to Malcolm. Did they cut corners? The movie seemed more about industrial sabotage than ineptitude. Ineptitude beyond you know, breeding raptors. Hammond dies just before the end, eaten by a pack of Procompsognatus like Peter Stormare in Lost World. Malcolm's death isn't shown, but he's left severely injured on the island before the Costa Rican army cover the entire site in napalm. Then in the sequel that Crichton initially didn't want to do, he's back just like that. Corners being cut is a massive part of the book, the park is already going to poo poo way before Nedry starts his plan. The dinosaurs are mysteriously sick because they're not adapted to their environment, they've also started breeding because of the frog DNA (and the administrators don't know because their camera system only tracks dinosaurs up to the maximum number, to save processing power because it's the 90s), there are all sorts of bugs, etc. Malcolm's argument is that none of these specific problems were inevitable but that similar issues would keep piling up because the project is too ambitious and yadda yadda chaos theory bullshit, life finds a way (one big difference with the movie is that Malcolm is already privy to the details of the park's configuration and did a report saying "this project is doomed".) The problem is Crichton tries to make it some grand statement about Man's inability to control Nature when the park is the rather specific product of a certain type of capitalist startup-style bullshit, everything done quick, cheap and on a skeleton crew for maximum profits. If the book was written today you could see Hammond replaced with a Silicon Valley bro speaking uniquely in buzzwords to flout the investors rather than the Walt Disney-type caricature that he was, and get the point just as well.
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Jul 6, 2019 22:20
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Krispy Wafer posted:I read the book, but it's been a long time. I don't even recall Hammond dying or what happened to Malcolm. Did they cut corners? The movie seemed more about industrial sabotage than ineptitude. Ineptitude beyond you know, breeding raptors. Hammond is killed by the Compies when he stumbles off a trail. I believe he's the last death in the book. Malcolm presumably dies of the injuries recurved in the Rex attack. Muldoon survives with minimal injuries. When I read the book before the movie, I always envisioned Hammond as the Old Man of OCP from RoboCop.
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Jul 6, 2019 22:25
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Elfface posted:How long until we have Superman doing the iconic "Zoom in front of a speeding bullet and be a human shield" thing, but instead of a gangster in a pinstripe suit opening fire on a bank, he's standing in front of a cop opening fire on a black teenager? This is why I considered the Luke Cage tv show a complete failure.
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Jul 6, 2019 22:33
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Elfface posted:How long until we have Superman doing the iconic "Zoom in front of a speeding bullet and be a human shield" thing, but instead of a gangster in a pinstripe suit opening fire on a bank, he's standing in front of a cop opening fire on a black teenager? Uh, given that Frank Miller is writing a new Superman origin comic book where Clark becomes a Navy SEAL, probably not anytime soon.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:12
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