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Given that he was invited onto the enterprise at the end of Star Trek: TNG episode Future imperfect, it's a shame Barash didn't stick around. Could have been nice to see him finally being able to socialise with others after years of isolation. Could have had an interesting dynamic with Riker.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:00
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Tony Phillips posted:If you asked me who the best barfly was before this run through, I would have said Norm no doubt. I would be wrong. Cliff was way way funnier. Speaking of aging poorly, the US Postal Service is still very angry about Cheers and employees can get in trouble for wearing their uniform or any other USPS-branded items (ID badge, coat, etc) inside of a drinking establishment, whether or not you're on the clock. Stills of Cliff from the show are shown during new employee orientation. buddhist nudist has a new favorite as of 01:01 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 00:58
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Tony Phillips posted:
Are these unpopular opinions? I watched the show growing up and I 100% agree. Woody was funny and gave the world of Woody Harrelson but he was a poor substitute for Coach. And Sam and Diane was a much better dynamic than Sam and Rebecca. And I always thought Cliff was funnier and more endearing than Norm. Norm was the complaining about his wife sitcom staple but Cliff was the weirdo barfly eccentric, true to life for anybody that hangs out at dive bars catering to the working class middle-aged loser types (of which I am one, to be fair). I think there are aspects of the show that have aged poorly but even so I think it's one of the greatest sitcoms of all time. On my personal list, it's the only American entry that would make the top five -- except for possibly Taxi.
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Jul 9, 2019 01:47
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Dr. Lucien Sanchez posted:Are these unpopular opinions? I watched the show growing up and I 100% agree. Woody was funny and gave the world of Woody Harrelson but he was a poor substitute for Coach. And Sam and Diane was a much better dynamic than Sam and Rebecca. And I always thought Cliff was funnier and more endearing than Norm. Norm was the complaining about his wife sitcom staple but Cliff was the weirdo barfly eccentric, true to life for anybody that hangs out at dive bars catering to the working class middle-aged loser types (of which I am one, to be fair). Probably the best bit ever on TV. "What does a yellow light mean?" "Slow down." "Whaaaat doooeees..." That, or "As God is my witness, Travis, I thought turkeys could fly!"
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Jul 9, 2019 05:09
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oldpainless posted:If he doesn’t punish people what’s the point of the character Exactly. He'd be more like oldpunishless Alhazred posted:24 almost works as criticism of torture. The "good" guys frequently tortures innocent people and when they catch the bad guys the only way to make them talk is to make a deal with them. They tried to explicitly lean into that eventually, pretty much around the time they saw real-life politicians cite the show to defend torture. But there's only so much you can do at that point really, so it wasn't much more effective than all those war movie that slap a little "war is bad" sticker on at the end. E: GoutPatrol posted:My dad still talks about this bit. Says it is the funniest thing in television history. Same Sir Lemming has a new favorite as of 15:13 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 14:46
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MrUnderbridge posted:Probably the best bit ever on TV. My dad still talks about this bit. Says it is the funniest thing in television history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNmnroyJSzo
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Jul 9, 2019 15:00
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When I watched Taxi in 2019 for the first time it was still mind-blowing for me. I don't think I've ever seen a show before that so perfectly captured working a dead-end job or what it feels like to have aspirations that seem out of reach. Most workplace sitcoms are about how the people of the office are like a family and wouldn't you love to work somewhere like here? Taxi's the only one I can think of where everybodys trying to get out of there as fast as possible.
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Jul 9, 2019 17:50
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Dr. Lucien Sanchez posted:Are these unpopular opinions? I watched the show growing up and I 100% agree. Woody was funny and gave the world of Woody Harrelson but he was a poor substitute for Coach. And Sam and Diane was a much better dynamic than Sam and Rebecca. And I always thought Cliff was funnier and more endearing than Norm. Norm was the complaining about his wife sitcom staple but Cliff was the weirdo barfly eccentric, true to life for anybody that hangs out at dive bars catering to the working class middle-aged loser types (of which I am one, to be fair). Honestly, I guess I don't know what the general consensus is. I'm 47. I was not quite 11 when Cheers started and a Junior in college when it ended. My assumption might just be colored by being in high school and college during Kirstie Alley's tenure and around horny high school / college kids that thought she was hot at the time and therefore better than what had come before. I remember the early years of Cheers, but honestly - in 1982 my favorite shows were things like "Voyagers!" and "Love, Sydney." I'm pretty sure that a lot of the humor of Cheers was still going over my head. Taxi is a show I'd probably really like, but have never had the chance to go through. I remember my dad loving it, but it was just over my head during it's prime. Same goes for "Barney Miller". I can remember the tail ends of their runs, but per my Dad - they weren't as good as they used to be. Right now, I'm into the 3rd season of "All in the Family." Combined with "Archie Bunker's Place" - another in the "My dad used to love this but I didn't get it at the time and only remember the tail end of the run" shows. Would catch re-runs with him years later and liked it, but so far there's been a lot of episodes I've never seen and it's great. The wife hates it, sadly. Sad combo of "they're just yelling too much" combined with just how eerily similar Archie is to a modern day Maga chud. Stapleton and O'Connor are so drat perfect though.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:03
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TBH I don't see the comparison. Archie Bunker hated white nationalists.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:11
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Tony Phillips posted:The wife hates it, sadly. Sad combo of "they're just yelling too much" combined with just how eerily similar Archie is to a modern day Maga chud. Stapleton and O'Connor are so drat perfect though. Archie Bunker is not nearly as bad as a modern chud, at all. That said, his character type is the "stubborn but basically decent bigot, who can eventually listen to reason". It's very, very tough to get that character type to age well. My grandparents loved All in the Family so I did see (only) a few episodes. The number one thing I always remembered was Edith's crazy shrill singing voice in the opening, though.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:18
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christmas boots posted:TBH I don't see the comparison. Archie Bunker hated white nationalists. Yeah. Archie was a bigot, but not the kind that bases their identity around it; that is to say he wasn't attending meetings and poo poo, he was just an ignorant man caught in an era where there was a poo poo-ton of social upheaval. This isn't defending him so much as just making the distinction. I think the character ages surprisingly well, because he basically exists to be dunked on by more enlightened people. Maude, Mike, Gloria, the Jeffersons, hell even Edith (who was often treated like an idiot by Archie, but was generally considerably less ignorant). That being said, I could see Archie agreeing the wall needs to be built.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:21
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all i know is that taxi had one of the best theme songs, past or present.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:53
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bad posts ahead!!! posted:all i know is that taxi had one of the best theme songs, past or present. 
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Jul 9, 2019 18:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:This isn't defending him so much as just making the distinction. I think the character ages surprisingly well, because he basically exists to be dunked on by more enlightened people. that was my mom's take on him back when she watched the show like 40 years ago, it seemed like the program definitely intended him to usually have egg on his face - even learn from it sometimes - but archie was also surprisingly popular as a character so often his alex jones-esque tirades would get standing ovations and, by and large, he was viewed as an inarticulate rear end in a top hat and an occasional buffoon, sure, but one who has his moments and says it like it is it's one of those strange miscommunications that caused some people to take characters like al bundy and no ma'am seriously
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Jul 9, 2019 19:04
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The problem with an Archie Bunker type character is that if the show gets popular and runs long enough, the audience likes them, they inevitably become the good guys. Then the characters who are trying to make him less hateful become strawmen and punching bags for him to dunk on while the studio audience gives him a standing ovation. poo poo look at Cartman on South Park, the obnoxious nazi who then gets put on t-shirts and gets to say all the funny lines, and everyone forgets that he's supposed to be a shithead barely tolerated by his friends. Then screaming about killing Jews becomes this wacky thing that's just kids being kids. E: lmao I took too long to type my post purple death ray has a new favorite as of 19:16 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 19:14
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hard counter posted:that was my mom's take on him back when she watched the show like 40 years ago, it seemed like the program definitely intended him to usually have egg on his face - even learn from it sometimes - but archie was also surprisingly popular as a character so often his alex jones-esque tirades would get standing ovations and, by and large, he was viewed as an inarticulate rear end in a top hat and an occasional buffoon, sure, but one who has his moments and says it like it is Yeah. My account on SA was bought by a friend who used to watch All in the Family with his grandma. When Archie would go off on a rant on some minority group or how women's lib was nonsense, she'd kinda just nod in agreement. I might have mentioned it before, but the first episode I remember is an episode where a guy's car breaks down and he ends up in the Bunker's house. He, Mike and Archie have an episode long debate about radicalism (I think?), then after the guy realizes Mike's determined to be a pacifist (again, not sure), they agree to part as friends, then the guy goes out to his car, and dies because of a car bomb. Wild poo poo, even now. Probably blew some fuckin' minds at the time. I wonder how much different it was in terms of Archie's sympathetic portrayal compared to the british show it was based on. Edit: Here's the one, I did some googlin', I got some aspects right https://all-in-the-family-tv-show.fandom.com/wiki/Archie_Is_Branded Here's the ep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5s37AlfdRY El Gallinero Gros has a new favorite as of 19:32 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 19:29
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Our version of Archie Bunker was Alf Garnett and there's a story about his actor, Warren Mitchell, being cheered at by some scrotes in the street and him turning on them and yelling that they were what he spent his life mocking. I hope it's true, even though they wouldn't take his point anyway. e: There were a lot of people who thought he was right but most people I knew realised he was supposed to be a foolish old man who'd been left behind.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:36
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HopperUK posted:Our version of Archie Bunker was Alf Garnett and there's a story about his actor, Warren Mitchell, being cheered at by some scrotes in the street and him turning on them and yelling that they were what he spent his life mocking. I hope it's true, even though they wouldn't take his point anyway. Carroll O'Connor had a similar reputation (despite his two most famous characters, Archie Bunker and Bill Gillespie both being bigots). http://socialistworker.org/2001/372/372_11_CarrollOConnor.php
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Jul 9, 2019 19:45
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Tony Phillips posted:And a big thumbs up to Bebe Neuwirth as well. Lilith was pretty much great every time she appeared. A question to anyone that might know. Frasier and Lilith were definitely shown arguing about things here and there in the show, but the divorce plot turn in the last season felt pretty sudden. Anyone know if this was written in due to Kelsey Grammar having lined up the Frasier spinoff by that time and the show knowing that he was supposed to be divorced by the time he got to Seattle? It was down to Bebe Neuwirth not wanting to be a series regular anymore- she's always been first and foremost focused on the stage (musical theater mostly), and of course since Frasier was going to film in Los Angeles she really couldn't do both that and Broadway at the same time. I was sad when they split, but the episodes of Frasier where Lilith shows up are consistently the best so it worked out in the end. They basically got her once per season and brought their A-game each time.
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Jul 9, 2019 19:54
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purple death ray posted:The problem with an Archie Bunker type character is that if the show gets popular and runs long enough, the audience likes them, they inevitably become the good guys. it's one of the oddities of fiction in general, pleasant people of good disposition and sound principles who usually do what's right are often disliked much more than assholes whose self-destructive beliefs adds situational tension and drives stories forward, often with them at the centre of their own mishaps, and this overall package consequently gives them a veneer of gutsy charisma over any meeker goody-two shoes it's not inevitable but it'll crop up easy if your narrative loosens
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Jul 9, 2019 20:41
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hard counter posted:it's one of the oddities of fiction in general, pleasant people of good disposition and sound principles who usually do what's right are often disliked much more than assholes whose self-destructive beliefs adds situational tension and drives stories forward, often with them at the centre of their own mishaps, and this overall package consequently gives them a veneer of gutsy charisma over any meeker goody-two shoes I guess its because pleasant people of good disposition aren't as compelling. I'm sure there are exceptions, but people wants flaws in their characters con sarn it Pretty much every prestige TV show of the last decade was driven by a lovely person or at best an anti hero El Gallinero Gros has a new favorite as of 20:49 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 20:46
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hard counter posted:it's one of the oddities of fiction in general, pleasant people of good disposition and sound principles who usually do what's right are often disliked much more than assholes whose self-destructive beliefs adds situational tension and drives stories forward, often with them at the centre of their own mishaps, and this overall package consequently gives them a veneer of gutsy charisma over any meeker goody-two shoes The truly sad thing is that this isn't limited to fiction, I think. People tend to respect "confident" men (it's always men) who take charge and take risks instead of the cautious and the meek. Even if a lot of the time, those "confident" men are just plain assholes.
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Jul 9, 2019 21:17
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Walter White is basically a monster. Tony Soprano is a horrible person. Al Swearingen isn't very nice.
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Jul 9, 2019 21:59
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Given the Star Trek: TNG's episodic nature, There are a lot of characters that join the enterprise that I hope will appear again, but probably won't like Minister Yale from the season 4 episode First Contact. She's pretty cool and I'd like to see her recur, along with the child that Riker encountered on that barren planet that was a psychic holodeck. They could have had interesting dynamics. I think I'm spoiled by modern shows having ever-expanding casts.
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Jul 9, 2019 22:01
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BioEnchanted posted:Given the Star Trek: TNG's episodic nature, There are a lot of characters that join the enterprise that I hope will appear again, but probably won't like Minister Yale from the season 4 episode First Contact. She's pretty cool and I'd like to see her recur, along with the child that Riker encountered on that barren planet that was a psychic holodeck. They could have had interesting dynamics. I think I'm spoiled by modern shows having ever-expanding casts. DS9 got most of the way there with semi-regular recurring characters like Garak and Kai Wynn. What I really wish TNG had specifically is a long running recurring antagonist like Gul Dukat for Picard to bounce off of. A crusty Romulan admiral or something.
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Jul 9, 2019 22:07
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Also Riker totally got #metoo'd by the alien nurse in First Contact who helped him try to escape the hospital.
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Jul 9, 2019 22:13
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FreudianSlippers posted:Walter White is basically a monster. This is why I've more or less hated every "prestige" show over the last fifteen or so years. It seems like, in order for a character to be considered complex and engaging, they have to be a complete sack of poo poo who's a horrible person at heart. Why is it so impossible to write a flawed character that isn't, in their soul, a sack of poo poo? I think Vince Gilligan is the worst about this. I dropped Better Call Saul because of it. The funny but smart comic relief lawyer guy, who is obviously trying his very best to be a good person throughout the beginning but is screwed by people he thought were his friends and by forces out of his control, which causes him to take more and more unscrupulous actions. Instead, no, secretly he really is a fundamentally unethical guy who just can't stop scamming, and maybe the people who want to bring him down are correct. Just... why is that necessary? Because of that, I don't like the main character or his enemies, so I'm left rooting for nobody. Same thing with Breaking Bad. Walter White is supposed to be the story of a regular guy who is pushed by circumstances into a life of crime and ends up taking to it. But he starts the show as a complete, utter loving rear end in a top hat from top to bottom. I'm not surprised at all by his development as a criminal, or that he likes the feeling of power and authority he gets from it - duh, he's a clear douchebag from day one. There are other, more sympathetic characters in the show, but at the end of the day they're the side characters and the villain is the main guy. It's just not fun to root for a bad guy
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Jul 9, 2019 22:20
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BioEnchanted posted:Also Riker totally got #metoo'd by the alien nurse in First Contact who helped him try to escape the hospital. I wonder if anyone has ever asked Bebe Neurith what she thinks of that scene now. Especially since I have vague recollection of hearing she gave some interview back in the day claiming "that was so hot" essentially. Edit: Speaking of aging:  Those glasses are definitely on the verge of a comeback. AceOfFlames has a new favorite as of 22:25 on Jul 9, 2019 |
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Jul 9, 2019 22:20
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Casey Finnigan posted:This is why I've more or less hated every "prestige" show over the last fifteen or so years True but at least Al Swearingen is pretty clearly the villain of his show. Heck even on Breaking Bad it quickly becomes clear that Walt isn't at all sympathetic compared to say Skylar or Jesse or Hank.
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Jul 9, 2019 22:48
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Casey Finnigan posted:Archie Bunker is not nearly as bad as a modern chud, at all. That said, his character type is the "stubborn but basically decent bigot, who can eventually listen to reason". It's very, very tough to get that character type to age well. You're right, and Jesus is that depressing. Archie is a dipshit, but his rare moments of introspection or learning actually puts him miles above some modern chuds. Casey Finnigan posted:My grandparents loved All in the Family so I did see (only) a few episodes. The number one thing I always remembered was Edith's crazy shrill singing voice in the opening, though. My wife hates it from the opening credits basically because of Edith's voice. Then no matter how good an episode it is - I know Archie and Mike are gonna go at it and there's just no convincing her that it's worth watching. Completely unrelated, but she doesn't like Always Sunny for the same reason. "They're just narcissistic jerks and they yell a lot."
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Jul 9, 2019 22:58
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I think It's Always Sunny works because they consistently fail because they are horrible and horribly stupid people, and the show goes over and above expectations to make sure the audience knows that you should never root for the gang. They are also willing to try different things with episodes, like the Charlie Work episode (that is filmed like one continuous shot) and the Being Frank episode (filmed in first person POV from Frank Reynold's perspective).
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Jul 9, 2019 23:11
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I stopped watching game of thrones because I didn't really like any of the characters and didn't find the story terribly compelling.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:42
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Gaunab posted:I stopped watching game of thrones because I didn't really like any of the characters and didn't find the story terribly compelling.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:49
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Bogus Adventure posted:I think It's Always Sunny works because they consistently fail because they are horrible and horribly stupid people, and the show goes over and above expectations to make sure the audience knows that you should never root for the gang. They are also willing to try different things with episodes, like the Charlie Work episode (that is filmed like one continuous shot) and the Being Frank episode (filmed in first person POV from Frank Reynold's perspective). Always Sunny works because it makes the character's failure fun. They're closer to Wile E Coyote or Sylvester the Cat than any live action show. You know they're going to fail and you tune in to see the insanity that failure creates.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:36
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buddhist nudist posted:Always Sunny works because it makes the character's failure fun. They're closer to Wile E Coyote or Sylvester the Cat than any live action show. You know they're going to fail and you tune in to see the insanity that failure creates. This is also true.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:47
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buddhist nudist posted:Always Sunny works because it makes the character's failure fun. They're closer to Wile E Coyote or Sylvester the Cat than any live action show. You know they're going to fail and you tune in to see the insanity that failure creates. Making them absolute losers works pretty well for aging the show, too. You're not surprised when you go back to an episode from like 2007 and there's a lovely joke that aged really poorly. Well yeah, they're all the worst people on the planet, it's not that surprising that they suck. Plus, no idiot is gonna see someone like Dennis and think, "hey actually he's kinda cool" the way they do for characters like Cartman. Dennis is an egotistical, sociopathic waste of space who's also pretty stupid, and that's how he acts, and that's how he's treated by the world around him. It's not like going back to Friends, seeing Ross flipping out like a child because his ex-girlfriend ended up with a woman, and being like "wow this character is supposed to be relatable?" For as much as Trey Parker and Matt Stone act like Cartman was designed to be a horrible, hateable prick, they sure made tons of plots where everything revolves around him and his wild, wacky personality - and, y'know, it's not like he ever actually learns a lesson and pretty much no one who tries to teach him something is ever portrayed as correct. He's not portrayed as weirder or worse than the other characters on the show, except for Kyle and Stan, who are the boring ones. He's not really all that hated by other characters in the show, besides Kyle, barely. And as a Jewish kid who was in middle school when the show was mega-popular I always thought Kyle had way too much patience. Dude should have strangled Cartman to death long ago. e: I also think it's kinda pathetic that Parker and Stone are going back and making episodes where they're like "actually, we were wrong about trans issues", "actually, we were wrong about global warming." Uh... I thought the whole thing was about pushing boundaries cause you don't care what society thinks, and you're sick of the preachy people who want to make others think like them? Because going back on those positions now makes it seem like the whole thing was actually about getting away with saying the worst poo poo that was allowable at the time, and now they're worried about pushback since standards are changing. If their opinions really are evolving, good, but in that case maybe they should reflect further on the two decades they spent making poo poo like South Park Yeah, better than saying nothing, I guess, but far worse than just canceling the show already and letting it rest as a monument to stupid mid-2000s white guy misanthropy. Casey Finnigan has a new favorite as of 01:21 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 00:57
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I think a real-life Eric Cartman getting elected president was a bucket of ice water on their whole schtick, and they're still trying to process it.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:43
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Gaunab posted:I stopped watching game of thrones because I didn't really like any of the characters and didn't find the story terribly compelling. I gave up on GoT when I realized it was going to be "Nothing good happens to anyone ever." Which is fine for a comedy program (Bottom, for example), but not for a drama. Davros1 has a new favorite as of 02:57 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 02:46
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Davros1 posted:I gave up on GoT when I realized it was going to be "Nothing good happens to anyone ever." Not true. Sam and Bronn made out like bandits.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:51
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Even the borderline stuff in S1 has aged well because no one pretends like it was acceptable. The very first episode does have the implication that Dennis had gay sex while drunk/high and doesn't remember and freaks out but even in the context the rest of the group staged it up because they didn't like being a gay bar so it makes them huge pieces of poo poo.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:56
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