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Stickman posted:Or be even lazier and use the free 240mm you can get with a mid/top-end MSi X570*. That seems like a steep price to pay for 5 star reviews, but good for them.
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Jul 10, 2019 03:32
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ItBurns posted:That seems like a steep price to pay for 5 star reviews, but good for them. Khorne fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 05:23
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fargom posted:Most any Motherboard will work for any Ryzen 3000. Even absurd combos like this $70 cheap B350 and R9 3900x worked fairly well: This is a really cool article. More people should do interesting takes like this, but you get all the clicks by slapping the most expensive everything in a box and running a bunch of game demos.
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Jul 10, 2019 06:04
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fargom posted:Most any Motherboard will work for any Ryzen 3000. Even absurd combos like this $70 cheap B350 and R9 3900x worked fairly well: dang This is pretty good information to have out there - like, yes, compatibility is supposed to be there, but it's good to see it actually be tested and verified as something that works well. Especially since a B350 chipset board was an excellent value proposition for pairing with a 1st gen Ryzen CPU.
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Jul 10, 2019 07:09
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fargom posted:Most any Motherboard will work for any Ryzen 3000. Even absurd combos like this $70 cheap B350 and R9 3900x worked fairly well: That 140 degree VRM, though  They did mention that air cooling instead of AIO would help improve airflow a bit, but it still seems like a “it’s cool that it runs, but just spend the extra $20-30 for an MSi B450-A Pro” kind of temperature. E: The cheapest MSi X570 boards have VRM on par with the B450 Pro Carbon AC or Asus Prime X470 Pro, but better feature sets. Unless MSi really screwed something up, they’re probably worth the extra $20-40 if you want the extra USB ports, better audio, and dual full-speed PCIe M.2 slots. Stickman fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 07:34
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Stickman posted:That 140 degree VRM, though Sadly in the UK the X570-A Pro is £50+ more than the B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC :/
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Jul 10, 2019 10:10
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hands up if you remember BIOS updates being a few dozen kilobytes https://www.techpowerup.com/257201/bios-rom-size-limitations-almost-derail-amds-zen2-backwards-compatibility-promise TLDR: MSI is running into BIOS size limitations because the AGESA update is getting too big for the 16MB chip. They had to cut Athlon and Bristol Ridge support, hardware RAID and a pretty good amount of UEFI features to make it fit. X570 boards come with 32MB chips. Updating to the newest BIOS may render systems those older CPUs temporarily useless.
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Jul 10, 2019 10:11
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Kazinsal posted:Based on the Ryzen 3000 launch, the Radeon 5700 launch, and the X570 launch, I think we can safely say that AMD isn't that good at heat dissipation. \/ Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as belligerent. lllllllllllllllllll fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 11:09
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:For 65W-TDP these 3xxx CPUs sure are hot & power hungry. Wish AMD had something to offer for the cool and quiet crowd as well. Despite exceeding TDP under heavy loads they still use substantially less power than the performance equivalent Intel, and while they run hotter than what we're used to that's a function of physics wrt the reduced die size. Your cooler doesn't have to work harder/louder (because it's not actually dissipating more energy), you just need to be comfortable with the chip sitting at 70C instead of 60. vvvv: Right. When you're looking at review charts a power/heat throttling Intel part might look better in instantaneous power consumption, but it's going to use more total power because it takes longer to complete the task. A couple reviewers point this out in the text accompanying the charts, at least. Theris fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 12:20
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Yeah, keep in mind the equivalent Intel part, the "65W" i7-8700, throttled on its own stock cooler.
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Jul 10, 2019 12:44
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:For 65W-TDP these 3xxx CPUs sure are hot & power hungry. Wish AMD had something to offer for the cool and quiet crowd as well. Uhh, how exactly have are you arriving at this conclusion when a 3700x is near 9900k performance at 0.6x power draw
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Jul 10, 2019 12:56
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Arzachel posted:Uhh, how exactly have are you arriving at this conclusion when a 3700x is near 9900k performance at 0.6x power draw I think a lot of people go "uuh... 81°C when the 9900k runs at 80°C on the same cooler, must be very power hungry"
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Jul 10, 2019 13:02
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Temp != Power draw, though.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:13
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Speaking of coolers, I picked up a cheap 2600 with a tomohawk four fitty when they dropped to $230 AUD over here, and it's hitting pretty high temps at 3.85ghz on the stock cooler. Wondering if a $50 Hyper 212 RGB or black edition will get me to 4.2, or do I need to spend Noctua money to tame this drat thing? Also the scythe mugen 5 rev. b that gets mentioned 5 times per page ITT is not available here at all, just to save y'all some effort. I may upgrade to a 3600 down the line, but with my use case of occasional gaming on a @1080p 60hz GTX980 I probably won't notice the difference until it's 4600 time.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:20
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Don Dongington posted:Speaking of coolers, I picked up a cheap 2600 with a tomohawk four fitty when they dropped to $230 AUD over here, and it's hitting pretty high temps at 3.85ghz on the stock cooler. Wondering if a $50 Hyper 212 RGB or black edition will get me to 4.2, or do I need to spend Noctua money to tame this drat thing? It's hard to recommend what to do with zen2 CPUs right now. Not enough testing has been done and they haven't been out long enough. Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 13:28
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Don Dongington posted:Speaking of coolers, I picked up a cheap 2600 with a tomohawk four fitty when they dropped to $230 AUD over here, and it's hitting pretty high temps at 3.85ghz on the stock cooler. Wondering if a $50 Hyper 212 RGB or black edition will get me to 4.2, or do I need to spend Noctua money to tame this drat thing? I think Cryorig H7 or the Arctic Freezer 33 eSports One are both better than the 212 for approximately the same price. No idea if they are available in upside-down land though.
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Jul 10, 2019 13:31
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ilkhan posted:Temp != Power draw, though. some energy doesn't go to thermal waste, but it's a pretty linear function. unless you mean cumulative temperature which is a function of transfer and power density more than input wattage. lllllllllllllllllll posted:For 65W-TDP these 3xxx CPUs sure are hot & power hungry. Wish AMD had something to offer for the cool and quiet crowd as well. they draw less power than the 2000 series on the same motherboards, but the x570 chipset eats most of the gains right back up.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:04
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Derbaur showed about 5w difference in chipset power use, I believe?
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Jul 10, 2019 14:20
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Lungboy posted:I think Cryorig H7 or the Arctic Freezer 33 eSports One are both better than the 212 for approximately the same price. No idea if they are available in upside-down land though. I can get the Cryorig H7 Plus for $69 AUD. Nice! Arctic Freezer don't seem to have a presence over here.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:26
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Harik posted:some energy doesn't go to thermal waste, but it's a pretty linear function. unless you mean cumulative temperature which is a function of transfer and power density more than input wattage ilkhan fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 14:26
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Harik posted:they draw less power than the 2000 series on the same motherboards, but the x570 chipset eats most of the gains right back up. The 3700x caps out at ~88W vs ~118W for the 2700x. The x570 chipset pulls 5W extra over x470 and you can just use a previous gen board so why is this even worth mentioning?
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Jul 10, 2019 14:28
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Wow that heat density really makes me want to wait for 7nm EUV processors before reconsidering a hop on the upgrade train Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 14:31
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Harik posted:some energy doesn't go to thermal waste, but it's a pretty linear function. unless you mean cumulative temperature which is a function of transfer and power density more than input wattage. Cumulative temp is the thing being measured here, and it's high because of the incredible power density and associated limits on transfer. So Zen2 is hot, but it's not hot because of power consumption, relative to other chips.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:32
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Don Dongington posted:I can get the Cryorig H7 Plus for $69 AUD. H7 plus is a good cooler.
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Jul 10, 2019 14:33
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Combat Pretzel posted:What do you mean? The chips are hampered by the quad patterning process? Soft X-raying silicon tends to leave cleaner geometry than with multiple masks on 193nm-wavelength lithography. By like, a lot. This, at least with how it's projected to work out and assuming most uniformity issues have been mitigated, allows for smaller features and reduces the risk of overlay (when you mess up multiple patterning). More precision boils down to more control over what gets put down on the silicon, which can benefit performance under the insanely high heat densities like on 7nm. Terribad speculation by someone who's never been in the industry: I'm not familiar at all with the VLSI structure of some of the fancy AVX/etc. instruction hardware that modern x86 processors have, but the amount of heat they put out in operation might be making overall product releases for desktop chips harder than they need to be (?) Just my uneducated perspective based on my perception on how well RISC ISA-using things are doing compared to x86
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Jul 10, 2019 15:05
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Soft X-raying silicon tends to leave cleaner geometry than with multiple masks on 193nm-wavelength lithography. By like, a lot. This, at least with how it's projected to work out and assuming most uniformity issues have been mitigated, allows for smaller features and reduces the risk of overlay (when you mess up multiple patterning). Tighter tolerances will help a bit but at the end of the day you're still squeezing ~75W out of a 74mm^2 chunk of silicon and no amount of fab magic will change that.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:15
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Penpal posted:got any recommendations? I want as little noise as possible. For the best perf/noise ratio you want a DH15. If you don't have the space for a monster cooler, or like the appearance of water cooling, just get something (280/360mm) with lots of reviews and check up that they will warranty water leaks to components within the warranty period. I use a Fractal Design s36 because it has white fans and looks nice in comparison to it's competition.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:20
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Derbaur showed about 5w difference in chipset power use, I believe? Some motherboards are doing SOMETHING to increase powerload by like 20-30w thats not related to the chipset.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:29
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You guys are looking at this the wrong way: higher temperatures mean that heat has an easier time moving from hot to cold. Why yes I had an R9 290, why do you ask?
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Jul 10, 2019 16:02
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Harik posted:they draw less power than the 2000 series on the same motherboards, but the x570 chipset eats most of the gains right back up. What? It's 7w more draw, max.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:05
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Twerk from Home posted:You guys are looking at this the wrong way: higher temperatures mean that heat has an easier time moving from hot to cold. Why yes I had an R9 290, why do you ask? My heatsink phase changing from solid to liquid is just an advanced form of evaporative cooling
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Jul 10, 2019 16:13
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Zotix posted:Will a Prism fit inside a Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic? Yes it will, it's an absolutely massive case
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Jul 10, 2019 16:25
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:What? It's 7w more draw, max. I think hes talking about the big overvolting that some motherboards are doing out of the box, mostly with the 2900X in multi thread workloads (like in the initial GN review on a Giga board and the reports of ASUS boards doing the same). They measured 147w power consumption with PBO off with a clamp on the 12v rail, vs the 105 tdp. Still haven't heard if this is a bug or motherboard makers trying to eek out an advantage. e: yes i know TDP is heat and not power use dont you dare start this again!!! Cygni fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 16:34
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That’s not overvolting, that’s spec. AMD has been shipping a 141.75W default power limit since last gen. 2700X wouldn’t quite use it fully though, it maxes out around 130W. I think the 2600X was officially around 120W power limit or something. Basically AMD has been moving towards “official TDP” being base clocks just like Intel. Core counts have quadrupled in two years and nobody wants to be the first to admit that it has spiked power consumption even with node shrinks.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:51
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Khorne posted:I'm leaning more and more toward a 3600 and either a placeholder b450 or a 'final' x570 board. If they didn't have a chipset fan I'd definitely get an expensive x570 board to drop a zen3 into next year.
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Jul 10, 2019 17:01
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It would appear that the good word of the B450 MSI boards has hit the Tustin, CA microcenter hard. The only one they have left is a single openbox MSI B450-A-Pro. but tons of ASUS/ASROCK/Giga boards though. Hopefully they can replenish the stock in the next month or I guess my choice between B450 and X570 is easy.
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Jul 10, 2019 17:12
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I've always been wary of MSI for some probably dumb internalized reason. Are there any good ASRock boards? I'd honestly be okay going 570 if I could stick with a 'rock.
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Jul 10, 2019 18:07
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Msi is a pretty solid choice I thought? My last mobo is an Msi board and it's still running 8 years later and through 10+ moves In a car.
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Jul 10, 2019 18:17
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Oh poo poo, DDR4-3600 with CL14. I'm guessing the 8GB x 4 kit will cost... $400? edit: So, I know there's been discussion about Zen2 being generally memory-insensitive. I don't really understand how all of the interactions in a computer work. Does the CPU being memory-insensitive mean that all RAM-related operations are affected? I'm guessing so, given that it's the central processing unit, but I guess I'm wondering whether there are any exceptions to that where having super-amazing RAM will result in a noticeable performance boost regardless of the CPU. Or does only RAM quantity work that way, and RAM speed's meaningfulness is totally dependent on the CPU it's hooked up to? surf rock fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 18:22
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surf rock posted:Oh poo poo, DDR4-3600 with CL14. 3600 CL14 is really far into the area of diminishing returns based on all of the benchmarks I've seen. There doesn't look to be a lot of difference in general computing/math tasks once you get out of the range of 'slow' memory and even in games the difference between the various 'fast' combinations of frequency/timing is small if it exists. Here's one example: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-zen-2-memory-performance-scaling-benchmark/4.html It's hard to imagine the $150-200 price premium being worth it vs going from a 2080 to a 2080 Ti or a 3700x to a 3900x unless you're just trying to build the fastest computer possible.
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Jul 10, 2019 18:56
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