Koalas March posted:

I am working with a therapist to get out safely but I feel like you're really underestimating how many abused people end up isolated or just jumping from one abusive relationship to another. I jumped into an abusive relationship to escape and it was just a different kind of hell. 

I tried to crash on a friends couch once and was nearly sexually assaulted. Now I have friends I love and trust but I still won't do it because there's the little voice in the back of my head saying, ok they seem like a good person but you never really know until they gently caress you up. And I realize that's ptsd/trauma but intellectualizing it doesn't make it go away.

Bobbie Wickham posted:

I'm not saying that all incels were abused as children, but they obviously come from unhealthy families, and it's just sadly likely that at least some incels were subjected to some abuse as well, emotional and/or otherwise. And as some people have already pointed out, there are a lot of overlap between rejected parents and incels, like the entitlement or playing the victim, so it's not impossible that some of it is learned behavior.

quote:

I don’t believe there was any one thing that caused the estrangement with our daughter.

She was a tough child from birth: colicky until she could walk, in need of constant stimulation, reading by the age of 3, and socially awkward. We started neuropsych testing in first grade, and because of her high IQ and reading abilities, she was placed in gifted classes, however she lacked the executive functioning skills (i.e., organization and internal discipline) to do well. A girl with a 145 IQ who could read at a 12th grade level got consistently low report card grades because she couldn’t find her homework. On top of all this, she was bullied.

So she became “a problem” that needed fixing. I use quotes, because I think this is what she perceived. I never saw a problem; I saw my child who needed help. My role became warrior mom and champion. I took on everyone – the school, the doctors, the bullies – and I tried as best I could to make her life easier. I found the best counselors, the tutors, even groups that taught social skills. You name it, we tried it.

Fast forward to 2015. We helped ED rent an apartment to live independently. She couldn’t complete community college, so her jobs were unskilled. But she seemed to be on her feet. Little did we know she began experiencing severe depressive episodes, unable to get out of bed, and lost jobs, got fired from jobs, etc. She never told us until it was all too late, and of course by then she was an adult and we could have zero to do with her medical decisions.

My husband got a job offer that meant a move, and instead of selling our house, we asked ED if she would like to live there – free, in exchange for caretaking (calling plumbers, for example, or making sure the lawn mowing svc came) – and she agreed. She moved in with her partner, her first serious relationship, knowing what the parameters would be. The biggest being, we didn’t know when we would return, but we would give them ample notice to find another place to live.

Our checkins about the state of the home gradually began to be very contentious. She often would not reply to my simple questions of “How is everything going,” or “did you check this that or the other thing?” Then I would have to hound with emails to get answers and she would get angry at that too.

In 2017, we learned we would be returning in the spring of 2018. In Oct I gave them notice for an April move date. Things went to hell in a handbasket. I think ED never told her partner that I gave notice in Oct, because it became a crisis for them in Feb to start looking for an apt. She now tells everyone we “kicked them out.” Everyone meaning my sister and my husband’s siblings. Right before we moved back, we got the “no contact” letter. Since then, I have sent along a few things they left behind. Those were returned to me unopened. As was a bday card.

I have always known who she is. As I said at the beginning of this post, it was never easy. I worry about them though, living hand to mouth, living in a sort of fantasy land (everyone is out to get them etc. – which, believe me, is a mindset I am sure I had a hand in creating through my warrior mom role) , and completely isolated. It’s easy for me to blame the partner, and I think she had a good deal to do with ED making the leap to no contact, but they feed off each other and it would be wrong of me to not acknowledge ED’s role or my own.

All that said, I’m in a pretty good place. This may sound callous, but without the drama in my life, I am much more at peace. However, I can’t shake some of the worry, and in the end she will always be my child.

InediblePenguin posted:

Of course her daughter was tested in really smart but couldn't do any of her work and at no point did anyone in the education system have the girl tested for ADHD because only boys have ADHD and it only presents as a boy who runs in circles.....

Prester Jane posted:

InediblePenguin posted:

yeah same i was "a girl" as a child and that's my story too except i didn't figure it out until i was in my 30s and doctors really don't want to give a grown adult an ADHD diagnosis lql

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

I dealt with therapists going "pfft you're not autistic" for years until I finally went to a specialist myself.
My mom thinks she has adhd but was never checked for it being a girl in Catholic school. While I got false positived with it for two decades.

Koalas March posted:

and even the loving CORNER.

MasBrillante posted:

That was like when I found a copy of that book A Child Called It in the bedroom of one of my friend’s teenaged daughters when I was a young, very voracious reader.

Sleeveless posted:

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Sleeveless posted:

You do know that A Child Called It was fiction, right? After the book blew up the author suddently "remembered" enough material to write an entire new sequel, their siblings and surviving family members say none of the things in the book ever happened and the author was a pathological liar, and even actual counselors and abuse experts have called out how the mom does not act like any actual abusive parent and instead is obviously a person writing the most cartoonishly evil villain they could imagine rather than relaying true events by a real person.

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Sleeveless posted:

You do know that A Child Called It was fiction, right? After the book blew up the author suddently "remembered" enough material to write an entire new sequel, their siblings and surviving family members say none of the things in the book ever happened and the author was a pathological liar, and even actual counselors and abuse experts have called out how the mom does not act like any actual abusive parent and instead is obviously a person writing the most cartoonishly evil villain they could imagine rather than relaying true events by a real person.

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Sleeveless posted:

You do know that A Child Called It was fiction, right? After the book blew up the author suddently "remembered" enough material to write an entire new sequel, their siblings and surviving family members say none of the things in the book ever happened and the author was a pathological liar, and even actual counselors and abuse experts have called out how the mom does not act like any actual abusive parent and instead is obviously a person writing the most cartoonishly evil villain they could imagine rather than relaying true events by a real person.

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Sleeveless posted:

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Prester Jane posted:

Thank you for everyone who has posted in support of survivors in this thread, it makes a tremendous difference, it really does. It can be very hard for some of us to acknowledge such posts Trevor variety of reasons, but I just want you all to know that every time you post in support of a survivor: they read it and it matters.

Sleeveless posted:

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Sleeveless posted:

You do know that A Child Called It was fiction, right? After the book blew up the author suddently "remembered" enough material to write an entire new sequel, their siblings and surviving family members say none of the things in the book ever happened and the author was a pathological liar, and even actual counselors and abuse experts have called out how the mom does not act like any actual abusive parent and instead is obviously a person writing the most cartoonishly evil villain they could imagine rather than relaying true events by a real person.

Using emotional self-harm through a comedy website as a substitute for therapy is bad enough but supporting con artists whose fiction ruins lives is a whole new level.

Prester Jane posted:

Words

quote:

I want to tell you my story, dear DF, so you see that we all have people like this in our lives. My friend and I were best friends for 20 years. There were odd things that happened now an again but I was naive and didn’t clue into them. We also lived in different cities for much of our friendship. But we would get together and then the odd things would happen. She would drink with my ex-husband and pushed him to drink more than he normally drank (which was a lot) and one time, my glass of wine kept getting refilled but I never saw who did it so I stupidly and then drunkenly thought I was on the same glass of wine. By the next day, waking up with a huge hangover, I knew I had drunk more than I normally would. So twenty years on, she calls me and confesses she is an alcoholic and has been hiding it from me for years. I felt stupid and even cruel when I questioned her — because I never realized it. She blamed the wine glass thing and my getting drunk ON ME! Her excuse was I drank a lot also. Uh, no, I don’t drink much at all, which is why that wine glass thing tripped me up. Then she told me she had a mental health breakdown and was diagnosed with a disorder. Had been hospitalized. I supported her through that but it got more and more bizarre. I was very upset with myself for not seeing the signs, not noticing the odd things, not wanting to know. We are not friends any longer because she is not rational any longer. You are not the only one but you caught on quicker than me.

MasBrillante posted:

Antivehicular posted:

Who sees their wine glass being topped up and keeps thinking "oh, never mind how much I've drunk at this point, clearly I'm still on my first glass?" Serious alcoholics and/or people with major cognitive deficiencies, right?

Ebola Roulette posted:

She was a problem child from birth!

Prester Jane posted:

Plenty of incels/chuds are entitled shits with a personality disorder, but I'd be willing to venture that probably a simple majority are products of abusive environments; it's virtually impossible to form a healthy self identity if you've never been shown an example of a healthy human being to model yourself off of.

MasBrillante posted:

I have no loving clue but I just thought this was the most hilariously delusional poo poo. It’s YOUR fault I got drunk because you didn’t hold my hand through the process of pouring liquid into my own mouth. I am 65.

Antivehicular posted:

Who sees their wine glass being topped up and keeps thinking "oh, never mind how much I've drunk at this point, clearly I'm still on my first glass?" Serious alcoholics and/or people with major cognitive deficiencies, right?

MasBrillante posted:

quote:

Hi everyone. I’m new around here and, I guess like must of you, I never expected to need a place like this (thanks Sheri!)

I have one child – son, aged nearly 32 – we aren’t estranged (yet) but I sometimes think that it’s only because I bite my tongue all the time that we aren’t – if I said the wrong thing, that would be that.

The final straw for me was not getting a reply to a call – something really small but it’s the straw that’s broken this camel’s back. You know what it’s like – you call (I hardly ever do – usually text and even then not often – once a month, maybe) but we hadn’t spoken in four months and I decided to risk it…so you call, and you know, you can feel, that he’s screening his calls, sees it’s only you and thinks – it’s only mum, can’t be bothered with that, whatever. So I kind of knew he wouldn’t answer the actual call but I did expect the courtesy of a reply over the weekend, then I thought maybe he was busy but he’d call on the way home from work on the Monday, like he used to…nothing. This went on for four weeks. He did call eventually, left a voicemail which I replied to as soon as I saw it and nothing again…so more than a month on, we still haven’t actually spoken to each other…

Now, I feel bad talking about this as if it’s a problem because I know some of you have had really bad experiences and maybe no contact from your kids for years. But this little thing has been like having my rose tinted spectacles knocked off my face and all of a sudden I can see for the first time the actual, real relationship I have with my adult child – and it’s not anything like the one I hoped for. I walk on eggshells all the time, don’t be too motherly, try to keep things light and it’s still wrong. How did we end up like this? We were so close (I thought) when he was little. I look at photographs of him as a child and I literally cannot see any connection with the man he is today. It’s like they are two different people.

I haven’t explained things very well but I’m looking forward to talking things over with you here, sharing and supporting 

Prester Jane posted:

Thank you for everyone who has posted in support of survivors in this thread, it makes a tremendous difference, it really does. It can be very hard for some of us to acknowledge such posts Trevor variety of reasons, but I just want you all to know that every time you post in support of a survivor: they read it and it matters.

quote:

My 37 yr old daughter has become more and more estranged over the last 3 years. The worst of it seemed to start when she moved in with her boyfriend 2+ yrs ago. It’s not a complete estrangement in terms of communication. We do talk, primarily if I call her. But there’s no feeling of family or relationship. She will likely call today — late in the day — with a 2-5 minute ‘Merry Christmas’ call. It’s just become so hollow that I wonder why she bothers at all. I have a 12 yr old granddaughter who seems to have been taught that there’s no reason to communicate with Grandma. She may text a “thank you” today for the Christmas gift, and she may not. If she does, it will likely be just that — “thank you” — absolutely nothing more.

It’s so hard to know what to say or do in this situation. I know many people would be thrilled to have the little connection I do have, but it is .005% of what we’re culturally conditioned to expect from a familial tie with our children and grandchildren. I’m ready to cut that final thread that binds us if this is all I will ever get. I would rather have nothing at all from them than to have this constant disappointment and grieving.