Raspberry Pi: yeah we're pretty much all on desktops again

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Raspberry Pi: yeah we're pretty much all on desktops again

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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD: Jul 7, 2012

hambeet posted:

Beaten on the oil already

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-mineral-oil-tank-with-added-pizzazz/

lol this one owns a little bit actually

# ? Jul 18, 2019 18:11

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 19:12

mewse: May 2, 2006

I hope someone ports the mednafen / beetle sega saturn emu core to the pi 4.

# ? Jul 18, 2019 18:49

General_Failure: Apr 17, 2005

I got out my 5" 800x480 HDMI LCD yesterday. Such a nice little thing, in theory anyway. In practice it's a huge pain unless it's attached to an un-accessorised Pi3. Made a Grove AI HAT sandwich, attached an HDMI cable, and ended up with a physically unstable, fragile and hard to use abomination.

Then I went on to use an IDE cable and some header connectors to bodge a male to male 2x20 adapter so I could try it on the Jetson Nano. Again, fragile as all hell, but it seems the nano actually supports the screen. For some reason the picture quality looked nicer than the Pi. Better colour profile maybe. Not sure. But seeing the little nVidia logo appear on the screen made me really happy for some reason.

Back to the Pi3. I've had a brain fart. Did they come with the header connector pre soldered? I've soldered so many headers I can't remember. If they did, are they available with an un-populated header?

# ? Jul 19, 2019 00:57

Schadenboner: Aug 15, 2011; by Shine

rpi-update posted:

DO NOT use 'rpi-update' as part of a regular update process.

E: Damnit, I thought this was the one that said "gently caress ewe". :mad:

Schadenboner fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jul 19, 2019

# ? Jul 19, 2019 01:00

mod sassinator: Dec 13, 2006; I came here to Kick Ass and Chew Bubblegum,
and I'm All out of Ass

General_Failure posted:

I got out my 5" 800x480 HDMI LCD yesterday. Such a nice little thing, in theory anyway. In practice it's a huge pain unless it's attached to an un-accessorised Pi3. Made a Grove AI HAT sandwich, attached an HDMI cable, and ended up with a physically unstable, fragile and hard to use abomination.

Then I went on to use an IDE cable and some header connectors to bodge a male to male 2x20 adapter so I could try it on the Jetson Nano. Again, fragile as all hell, but it seems the nano actually supports the screen. For some reason the picture quality looked nicer than the Pi. Better colour profile maybe. Not sure. But seeing the little nVidia logo appear on the screen made me really happy for some reason.

Back to the Pi3. I've had a brain fart. Did they come with the header connector pre soldered? I've soldered so many headers I can't remember. If they did, are they available with an un-populated header?

The big Pi I don't think has ever been offered without the header, but the Pi zeros can be bought with and without the header soldered on. Getting one without the header is kind of neat because you can solder on a female header (easier for breadboarding wires to stick in) or even a right angle header to do interesting things.

# ? Jul 19, 2019 01:19

General_Failure: Apr 17, 2005

mod sassinator posted:

one without the header is kind of neat because you can solder on a female header (easier for breadboarding wires to stick in) or even a right angle header to do interesting things.

That's why I was asking. I put a right angle header on one of my Pi zeros.
I'd love to be able to have a female header underneath a pi 3 using one of those riser adapters.
I think I already mentioned it but the Grove AI HAT has an amazing pass through female header. I'd love more boards like that.

# ? Jul 19, 2019 02:40

the_enduser: May 1, 2006; They say the user lives outside the net.

I feel like the OP could be updated with some current information. Especially since the 4b is out etc

# ? Jul 19, 2019 04:07

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Schadenboner posted:

"gently caress ewe".

no dont

Tertius Oculum posted:

I feel like the OP could be updated with some current information. Especially since the 4b is out etc

More like out of stock. The most egregious I've seen is RS:

(edit: to be clear this is in NZD, so not far from USD pricing here, but the date lol why bother)

Pi Hut in the uk had 4gb in stock a few days ago that lasted all of a few minutes

Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Jul 19, 2019

# ? Jul 19, 2019 08:18

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

The Pi 4 is nowhere to be found in spanish shops, not even Amazon Prime, any version of it and the few that show are the 2gb version for 60€ and 10€ shipping, gently caress that. At the other hand the 3b+ dropped to 25€ on Amazon and can justify getting another just to mess with it at my job.

# ? Jul 19, 2019 09:17

the_enduser: May 1, 2006; They say the user lives outside the net.

I was able to get mine Monday from pishop.us

https://www.pishop.us/product-category/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-kits/pi-4-b-kits/

I just grabbed a budget kit.

It's pretty sweet. Waiting on Retropi to update now.

# ? Jul 20, 2019 01:29

TheresaJayne: Jul 1, 2011

I just had a thought, high speed Data transfer from Raspi without needing any special hardware at the pi end....

HDMI Audio

I remember that in the old days we would load up our games from cassette tape,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZYuGUCrkoU

So why don't we use the HDMI audio out from the Pi and put it into a DAC at the other end to have a higher speed out put that doesnt use the USB interface as the earlier pis do for the network interface?

# ? Jul 20, 2019 08:03

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

TheresaJayne posted:

I just had a thought, high speed Data transfer from Raspi without needing any special hardware at the pi end....

HDMI Audio

I remember that in the old days we would load up our games from cassette tape,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZYuGUCrkoU

So why don't we use the HDMI audio out from the Pi and put it into a DAC at the other end to have a higher speed out put that doesnt use the USB interface as the earlier pis do for the network interface?

The maximum data output over HDMI audio from the PI is about 36.8 megabits per second with the supported audio modes (direct PCM mode on the maximum 8 channels with the maximum sampling depth and rate). And if you try to use that audio to encode other data, you'll lose a significant chunk of that transfer to the overhead incurred, leaving you below the ideal USB 2.0 data transfer by quite a ways, since you'd start with the audio max bitrate only slightly higher.

# ? Jul 20, 2019 19:11

GutBomb: Jun 15, 2005; Dude?

mod sassinator posted:

Well if you're running a web server from home the real answer is: don't. A digital ocean VPS or similar are $5 a month to run ($60 a year, cheaper than a video game) and much more useful. For something like a wiki that's only static content you could even use a static site generator like hugo and host it all on S3 or similar storage so you only pay for what you access. All of this can be easily locked down with SSL (free certs from letsencrypt.org) too vs. the nightmare of trying to do self signed certs at home and getting browsers to trust them. And the way more and more modern web tech is going you'll have to run sites behind real SSL certs to do anything interesting (all the recent HTML5 additions like web bluetooth, HTTP/2, service workers, etc. only work on SSL sites and won't work from a little Pi serving insecure traffic on your local network).

You know you can use certbot/letsencrypt on a home server too right? It�s dead easy.

# ? Jul 20, 2019 20:43

Hadlock: Nov 9, 2004

I haven't used let's encrypts v2 api, but the v1 does a challenge that it verifies on a publicly addressable endpoint. A lot of home users don't/can't do that kind of route on a home router.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 06:08

TheresaJayne: Jul 1, 2011

fishmech posted:

The maximum data output over HDMI audio from the PI is about 36.8 megabits per second with the supported audio modes (direct PCM mode on the maximum 8 channels with the maximum sampling depth and rate). And if you try to use that audio to encode other data, you'll lose a significant chunk of that transfer to the overhead incurred, leaving you below the ideal USB 2.0 data transfer by quite a ways, since you'd start with the audio max bitrate only slightly higher.

It was just a thought, I am not an expert but wondered if it was feasible, (also you could pulse and send a byte at a time using 8 tones.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 08:05

ante: Apr 9, 2005; SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

Hadlock posted:

I haven't used let's encrypts v2 api, but the v1 does a challenge that it verifies on a publicly addressable endpoint. A lot of home users don't/can't do that kind of route on a home router.

A home user that knows how to use Let's Encrypt definitely knows how to open two ports on their router

# ? Jul 21, 2019 16:41

TVs Ian: Jun 1, 2000; Such graceful, delicate creatures.

Speaking of encryption, there's a totally pointless project I'd kind of like to try, but I don't know if it's even really possible.

I've got an old PowerBook 3400C kicking around. It can actually get online via Ethernet and a browser that was last updated in 2014, but there's an issue. Most sites are now requiring TLS 1.3, and the software never got that far. So it can only bring up a handful of sites and the rest throw encryption errors and won't load.

I was thinking that maybe I could use a Pi as a proxy server - let it connect with TLS 1.3, and send a version down to the Mac with older encryption (or even a non-encrypted version) just to be able to get online. I could either connect to the Mac via Ethernet and use the Pi's wifi to get it online, but I could get a PCMCIA wifi card for the Mac as well. It just only supports very old WPA, so I'd connect the Pi to Ethernet and connect the Mac to its wifi instead of my regular network.

Again, it's pretty pointless, it's mostly just to see if I can do it with this computer (it was saved from being thrown out by a school), and maybe download some old Mac games and stuff on it since it was pretty good for its time. I wouldn't be opposed to just running something on my PC instead if there's already something that would do the job, but a portable solution would be nice to have.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 18:56

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

I believe both APIs support DNS challenge anyway so it doesn�t really matter if you can�t open ports.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 18:57

mewse: May 2, 2006

TVs Ian posted:

Speaking of encryption, there's a totally pointless project I'd kind of like to try, but I don't know if it's even really possible.

I've got an old PowerBook 3400C kicking around. It can actually get online via Ethernet and a browser that was last updated in 2014, but there's an issue. Most sites are now requiring TLS 1.3, and the software never got that far. So it can only bring up a handful of sites and the rest throw encryption errors and won't load.

I was thinking that maybe I could use a Pi as a proxy server - let it connect with TLS 1.3, and send a version down to the Mac with older encryption (or even a non-encrypted version) just to be able to get online. I could either connect to the Mac via Ethernet and use the Pi's wifi to get it online, but I could get a PCMCIA wifi card for the Mac as well. It just only supports very old WPA, so I'd connect the Pi to Ethernet and connect the Mac to its wifi instead of my regular network.

Again, it's pretty pointless, it's mostly just to see if I can do it with this computer (it was saved from being thrown out by a school), and maybe download some old Mac games and stuff on it since it was pretty good for its time. I wouldn't be opposed to just running something on my PC instead if there's already something that would do the job, but a portable solution would be nice to have.

https://github.com/tenox7/wrp

# ? Jul 21, 2019 19:05

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

mewse posted:

https://github.com/tenox7/wrp

That seems to be pretty overkill, is there a version of that which just handles the modern TLS connections on its side and spits out older SSL or TLS connections or HTTP straight up, for people who just want to browse sites that could otherwise be handled?

# ? Jul 21, 2019 19:09

simble: May 11, 2004

ante posted:

A home user that knows how to use Let's Encrypt definitely knows how to open two ports on their router

A lot of ISPs block inbound traffic on common ports. Mine blocks 80 but luckily not 443.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 19:19

Mr.Radar: Nov 5, 2005; You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.

fishmech posted:

That seems to be pretty overkill, is there a version of that which just handles the modern TLS connections on its side and spits out older SSL or TLS connections or HTTP straight up, for people who just want to browse sites that could otherwise be handled?

I think mitmproxy can do that. Assuming the browser supports SOCKS proxies SOCKS5 mode sounds like the ticket.

Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jul 21, 2019

# ? Jul 21, 2019 19:27

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

simble posted:

A lot of ISPs block inbound traffic on common ports. Mine blocks 80 but luckily not 443.

You definitely don�t need to open any ports to use let�s encrypt.

# ? Jul 21, 2019 19:46

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Let's Encrypt verification modes that wouldn't involve adding a port:
- adding a TXT record to the domain (typically requires some kind of plug-in for your dns registrar) - not useful unless you've got a domain, and I feel iffy saving registrar credentials to a file for the updater to use
- checking that a verification path within your web page exists - I think this is what I use now actually, and might also work for an ip/without a domain?

# ? Jul 22, 2019 00:35

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

Progressive JPEG posted:

Let's Encrypt verification modes that wouldn't involve adding a port:
- adding a TXT record to the domain (typically requires some kind of plug-in for your dns registrar) - not useful unless you've got a domain, and I feel iffy saving registrar credentials to a file for the updater to use
- checking that a verification path within your web page exists - I think this is what I use now actually, and might also work for an ip/without a domain?

1. You don't need any plugin, you just create the TXT record and update manually as required. If you want to automate it you would provide credentials for your DNS provider. If you're very concerned about your credentials living somewhere, not sure what to tell you, seems like a weird concern.
2. As far as I know Let's Encrypt will not generate certs for IPs, so you need a domain to use it in any way.

ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jul 22, 2019

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:35

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

ElCondemn posted:

1. You don't need any plugin, you just create the TXT record and update manually as required. If you want to automate it you would provide credentials for your DNS provider.

This was assuming that you'd be using a tool to handle renewals automatically rather than needing to manually update and reapply certs every three months. For me doing it manually would guarantee that I'd get it wrong in some way each time, assuming I'm even in town when it's due for renewal.

ElCondemn posted:

If you're very concerned about your credentials living somewhere, not sure what to tell you, seems like a weird concern.

I guess it depends on the registrar. If they support something like limited access API keys that can be scoped to only update dns records for a given domain, then I'd be comfortable with that. Otherwise, those credentials if discovered would have access to e.g. approve the transfer of any domains in the account to a third party, so it feels risky leaving them lying around. In my case it's somewhat a moot point where full account credentials are concerned since I have two-factor enabled for that account.

ElCondemn posted:

2. As far as I know Let's Encrypt will not generate certs for IPs, so you need a domain to use it in any way.

Did a quick search and it does look like they indeed only do certs for domains, not IPs.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 06:55

wolrah: May 8, 2006; what?

Progressive JPEG posted:

This was assuming that you'd be using a tool to handle renewals automatically rather than needing to manually update and reapply certs every three months. For me doing it manually would guarantee that I'd get it wrong in some way each time, assuming I'm even in town when it's due for renewal.

One of the explicit reasons given for the 90 day lifetime is to encourage automation, because a lot of real world SSL issues stem from forgotten or botched renewals. Doing it manually is pretty much just intended for testing and temporary stuff.

quote:

I guess it depends on the registrar. If they support something like limited access API keys that can be scoped to only update dns records for a given domain, then I'd be comfortable with that. Otherwise, those credentials if discovered would have access to e.g. approve the transfer of any domains in the account to a third party, so it feels risky leaving them lying around. In my case it's somewhat a moot point where full account credentials are concerned since I have two-factor enabled for that account.

This is definitely an issue at the low end. A lot of the DNS providers that offer a free or ultra-low-cost tier aimed at hobbyists/developers gate the ability to create multiple API keys to their higher tier plans.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 17:39

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

To be clear I've just been using the "temp path on your web page" method and that's been working fine. Per above I'm not comfortable giving the web server credentials to reach out into the dns provider to change things. I like that the temp path method is self-contained to the server performing the update.

nginx config against the port 80 site, which otherwise just redirects 80 to 443. The errant url tags are added by radium and should be edited out:

code:

location /.well-known/acme-challenge/ {
    proxy_pass            [url]http://127.0.0.1:8080[/url]$request_uri;
    proxy_read_timeout    90s;
    proxy_connect_timeout 90s;
    proxy_send_timeout    90s;
    proxy_set_header      Host $host;
}

I was previously using acmetool, which never loving worked and just silently let certs expire. More recently I've been using lego and that's worked fine.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 23:05

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

Does anyone know the feasibility of physically disabling/removing the wifi and bluetooth on the newer pi models (3 and 4)? I don�t mean a software disable, I want the hardware removed or disconnected.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 06:01

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Omitting the drivers at the kernel would be enough in practice but if you're that :tinfoil:

about it maybe just get a non-W pi zero?

# ? Jul 24, 2019 06:33

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

Progressive JPEG posted:

Omitting the drivers at the kernel would be enough in practice but if you're that about it maybe just get a non-W pi zero?

I�m not sure how :tinfoil:

I need to be. I looked at the Pi Zero but I want ethernet and to still have the SPI free. They still make the B+ and I could get one of those but the performance of the newer models would be nice which is why I�m wondering what it might take to physically disable the wifi and bluetooth.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 06:35

General_Failure: Apr 17, 2005

Hm. Not hardware but you could remove the kernel modules maybe? Or run FreeBSD which has no support anyway so someone exploiting the wifi would need some godlike hacking skills.
Or utilise a board from a different manufacturer. Although I have no idea what your use case is so it may not be suitable.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 07:05

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Just encase it in a faraday cage, no wireless in or out.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 07:13

General_Failure: Apr 17, 2005

priznat posted:

Just encase it in a faraday cage, no wireless in or out.

Was tempted to suggest that.

Just came back to say that the zero uses a USB ethernet adapter internally anyway. I used a Zero with a USB ethernet dongle a lot. If you want it to look neat elecrow(?) makes a USB hub that goes underneath a pi zero and uses pogo connectors to connect to the MicroUSB test pads. I have one.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 07:20

Alpha Mayo: Jan 15, 2007; hi how are you?
there was this racist piece of shit in your av so I fixed it
you're welcome
pay it forward~

priznat posted:

Just encase it in a faraday cage, no wireless in or out.

As if the reptilians don't have quantum wifi hacks to get around that

# ? Jul 24, 2019 07:44

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Alpha Mayo posted:

As if the reptilians don't have quantum wifi hacks to get around that

They could hack the ethernet controller or power supply. Those wires exiting the cage would make perfectly functional antennas

# ? Jul 24, 2019 07:47

mewse: May 2, 2006

Dren posted:

Does anyone know the feasibility of physically disabling/removing the wifi and bluetooth on the newer pi models (3 and 4)? I don�t mean a software disable, I want the hardware removed or disconnected.

From this vid apparently the WiFi chip on the 3 is a small ic next to the micro sd slot

https://youtu.be/ARCwpGnoDEA

# ? Jul 24, 2019 11:05

Dren: Jan 5, 2001; Pillbug

The faraday cage idea is one i hadn�t thought of, I like it. I wonder what would happen if I found the wifi chip�s spot on the board and just drilled a hole though it.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 11:24

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Dren posted:

The faraday cage idea is one i hadn�t thought of, I like it. I wonder what would happen if I found the wifi chip�s spot on the board and just drilled a hole though it.

No. You might short a bunch of things you don't intend to, and cut through layers you don't want to either.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 11:57

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 19:12

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

Dren posted:

The faraday cage idea is one i hadn�t thought of, I like it. I wonder what would happen if I found the wifi chip�s spot on the board and just drilled a hole though it.

How about killing the antenna? The 3+ and 4 use a PCB antenna, cutting the traces with a scalpel should make the WiFi inoperable without being too invasive.

The antenna is this single trace coming out of the EMI shielding can:

# ? Jul 24, 2019 12:13

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Raspberry Pi: yeah we're pretty much all on desktops again

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