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blossommirage
Nov 7, 2012

I actually really love pink hair Mana, what the hell?

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SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007


Those Futari Wa designs feel like they'd belong more in Doremi than Precure

Pink Hair Mana is good as is twin tail Mana

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Pikestaff posted:

This is the earliest Futari Wa concept art I know of



So they were going to be even more Sailor Moon-esque at one point (I sort of like the look of some of those early designs though). I wouldn't be surprised though if the design for Proto Nagisa in the picture I posted was eventually recycled to make Nozomi.

SatoshiMiwa posted:

Those Futari Wa designs feel like they'd belong more in Doremi than Precure

Pink Hair Mana is good as is twin tail Mana

Agreed (though twin tail Mana actually looks a bit more like Regina to me).

Speaking of which, somehow it just dawned on me that Regina’s normal outfit is basically just a black and red version of the standard DokiDoki uniform.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jul 19, 2019

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Back onto voice actor chat for a moment, apparently several Precure cast members have had or would go on to have roles in other Toku productions. Not sure about Rider or Ultraman (aside from Nagisa cameoing as a random little girl in Kamen Rider Black, Honoka voicing Mezool in OOO and Aphrodite having a role in the upcoming Zero One) but as far as Sentai goes we've got:

-Noriko Hidaka (Aphrodite/Suite) - One of her earliest roles was support girl Keiko Nakahara in BFJ, but she also VAed Miss Gritta in ToQ

-Ryusei Nakao (Noise/Suite) - His main ones were Abrella in Deka and Masakage Tsugomori in Ninnin, but he's so early cause he cameoed in Denziman.

-Takayuki Godai (Akudaikan/Splash Star) - The second VulEagle in Sun Vulcan

-Toshiyuki Morikawa (Goyan/Splash Star) - Torin’s VA

-Joji Nakata (Gamettsu/Maho Girls) - Sir Cowler, Great Professor Bias, Azald, Tankjo

-Tomokazu Seki (Mepple/Futari) - Buldont surprisingly; and the Gokaiger tech

-Fumiko Orisaka (Rhythm/Suite) - The first ACTUAL Cure to show up in the franchise (and not a villain/side char/fairy) was...Time Robotta from Timeranger...yeah that annoying thing Sion invented to assist in the second half.

-Misa Watanabe (Northa/Fresh) - Vancuria's VA; not Nai/Mea related

-Akiko Nakagawa (Pine/Fresh) - BOMPER's VA

-Romi Park (Syrup/Yes! GoGo) - Dayu Usukawa's VA

-Marina Inoue (Beauty/Smile) - Metal Alice's VA

-Haruka Fukahara (Custard/KiraKira) - Lady in the ToQger movie

-Yukari Tamura (Amour/HUGtto) - Navi's VA

-Kikuo Inoue (Benigyo/Maho Girls) - Damaras' VA

-Haruka Tomasu (Fortune/Happiness Charge) - Candylira's VA

-Aya Hisakawa (Moonlight/HeartCatch) - Madame Noir's VA

-Megumi Han (Princess/Happiness Charge) - Kyuemon's VA

-Kotono Mitsuishi (Hummy/Suite) - Ariake no Kata's VA

-Minako Kotobuki (Sword/DokiDoki) - Naria's VA

-Eri Kitamura (Berry/Fresh) -Madakko's VA

-Rie Kugimiya (Ace/DokiDoki) - Jim Carter's VA

Setsuna and Honoka also voiced MotW in Timeranger and Goseiger respectively.

Also not Toku related but Sanae (Honoka's grandmother) was played by Masako Nozawa (Goku) while Noise and Ira were Freeza and Krillin respectively.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 19, 2019

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004


On tonight's installment, it's Jadeite on the radio. Jadeio?

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Star Twinkle 24: This week on a Rankin-Bass Christmas Special, a snowman voiced by Kamen Rider Ginga is trying to see the smile of a snow spirit voiced by Sailor Saturn (Crystal version).

It's a nice episode, tying Madoka's subplot with her piano anxiety into a way for Yuni to use her own musical prowess to help with things. The team also recovers Aquarius which means there’s only two Pens left. I’m very curious as to what's going to happen after that.

Next week is a summer festival episode, so it's a chance for the entire cast to wear yukata. It’s also an episode focused on Yuni, putting her at the true forefront of an episode for the first time since she became Cosmo.


They still haven’t updated the OP yet which is weird since they already changed the ED around Cosmo’s debut. Maybe we’re getting a new major character (or more) soon and they’re holding off until then (the title for episode 26 does mention something about a mysterious invader after all).

They also still haven’t credited Darknest’s VA anywhere yet despite him speaking quite a bit in episode 21, which makes me think he may share an actor with another established character in the series and they’re setting up an eventual reveal. Has Precure ever withheld an actor’s name like this before?

Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jul 21, 2019

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

I haven’t watched it yet but the Miracle Universe movie has now been subbed by Overtime.

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Came here to bark at you




Watched it this morning. There were lots of cute shippy moments between popular pairings like Emiru/Lulu, Akira/Yukari etc. Every single Precure makes a cameo appearance by the end but only a few of them have voiced lines.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Pikestaff posted:

Watched it this morning. There were lots of cute shippy moments between popular pairings like Emiru/Lulu, Akira/Yukari etc. Every single Precure makes a cameo appearance by the end but only a few of them have voiced lines.

Did they actually bother to give an explanation as to why Harry, Hugtan and Lulu are back from the future (and why Hugtan is suddenly a baby again) or are they just there like is usually the case with Precure crossovers?

Larryb fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 21, 2019

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Came here to bark at you




Larryb posted:

Did they actually bother to give an explanation as to why Harry, Hugtan and Lulu are back from the future or are they just there like is usually the case with Precure crossovers?

They're just there. If you really want to play with Precure lore, in this movie the Miracle Lights have the power to call all the Precure from their respective universes through a portal so I assume they just sort of choose the best time to pull them in from. Although a scene late in the movie seems to show multiple Cures in civilian form in what looks to be the same city, so who knows. It's the usual All Stars hand-wavey stuff.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Pikestaff posted:

They're just there. If you really want to play with Precure lore, in this movie the Miracle Lights have the power to call all the Precure from their respective universes through a portal so I assume they just sort of choose the best time to pull them in from. Although a scene late in the movie seems to show multiple Cures in civilian form in what looks to be the same city, so who knows. It's the usual All Stars hand-wavey stuff.

That’s about what I figured. Are there at least any continuity nods to KiraKira and/or Hugtto aside from that one scene from the trailer of Lala wearing a Kira Pati uniform?

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Came here to bark at you




Larryb posted:

That’s about what I figured. Are there at least any continuity nods to KiraKira and/or Hugtto aside from that one scene from the trailer of Lala wearing a Kira Pati uniform?

Not really, it's mostly focused on the original story. There are a couple of shoutouts to fan favorite ships as I said earlier, and a lot of the girls' and teams' signature attacks. The KiraKira girls get a short bit about the magic of kirakiraru. Overall I can't say it was one of my favorite Precure movies but I still enjoyed it, mostly because I've really liked the characters from the last few seasons, so seeing them interact is always nice.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Good to know then, and I think this may be the first time in years that the Miracle Lights are actually story relevant aside from just being shoved in at the end.

I think my favorite bit in that regard was a scene in the DokiDoki movie where Aguri literally stops the film (seriously, you can see Rikka just frozen in place behind her) so she can explain things to the audience.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Finally got around to watching Miracle Universe. Here are some thoughts:

-This may be the first time in years that the Miracle Lights are actually plot relevant in a movie again (in fact, the whole story revolves around the planet responsible for making them in the first place) though as a result there are twice as many moments where the action stops so they can address the audience.

-The Star Twinkle group acts like this is their first time in space so I assume this movie takes place prior to episode 7 (also the fact that Taurus is the only pen we see actually get used).

-I forget, did Hana ever actually meet Hikaru outside of costume in the Hugtto finale (she calls her by name here but I seem to remember her only encountering her as Cure Star)?

-As I expected Harry, Hugtan, and Lulu are just back with the Hugtto team with no explanation

-The scene where everyone glomps onto Lulu to stay warm was funny and seeing Lala in a Kira Pati uniform attempting to cook with the KiraKira team was nice as well.

-They turn this into a full All Stars movie near the end with the other Precure showing up to cheer on the main three with the Miracle Lights. Only a handful of them actually have lines though (mostly the Pinks). A few of them also appear briefly earlier in the film (though strangely Luminous is not shown with the Futari team at first).

-This movie seems to operate on the idea that the Precure exist in separate universes (aside from Hana and Hikaru remembering each other and the KiraKira and Hugtto teams already being familiar with one another) but then there’s a later scene of everyone just walking around town like normal so I guess just chalk it up to normal All Stars weirdness.

-All three main teams seem to get equal time in the spotlight so that’s nice at least

-Precure on motorcycles (or Cure Star at least), the Kamen Rider influence in this franchise has come full circle.

-In regards to my first point, there’s also a part near the end where the villain possesses people across the universe and they use Dark Miracle Lights to cheer him on and make him stronger, which is a nice reversal of the usual trope at least.

I’ve seen better Precure movies but this one wasn’t bad, the action was good and nearly every character gets her chance to shine. Apart from character cameos there’s not a lot of direct nods to the past though so you probably could safely watch this even if you haven’t seen KiraKira and/or Hugtto.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jul 21, 2019

BattleCattle
May 11, 2014

Saw the Madoka movies. They are very good. They are also very content dense, so it took me a while to parse everything, and I lost a couple nights worth of sleep thinking about Rebellion, read, alternating between staring wide eyed at my ceiling and occasionally curling into a ball until the sun poked its head in and asked "Hey, you 'aight?"

Enough, Here are my thoughts.

Bebe did nothing wrong. I can get behind a good camembert.

SatoshiMiwa
May 6, 2007


Miracle Universe is an okay All Stars movie but Akira and Yukari's twin attack while flirting was bigger gay energy than Kiraka's XV henshin

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Came here to bark at you




It's a real shame we aren't going to see much of them anymore because almost every time they were on screen they were draped over each other romantically and it was incredible

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Akira and Yukari are basically the closest thing to a canon lesbian couple we have in Precure (between the show, movies, and manga they've basically done everything short of outright say it), not to mention that from a design and personality standpoint they're basically a more child friendly version of Haruka and Michiru from Sailor Moon.

The only others I can think of that come close are Mana and Regina from DokiDoki (then again, almost every girl in that town seemed to be in love with Mana in some fashion) and of course Hugtto gave us our first official gay couple with Henri and Emiru's brother.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 22, 2019

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Larryb posted:

Akira and Yukari are basically the closest thing to a canon lesbian couple we have in Precure (between the show, movies, and manga they've basically done everything short of outright say it), not to mention that from a design and personality standpoint they're basically a more child friendly version of Haruka and Michiru from Sailor Moon.

The only others I can think of that come close are Mana and Regina from DokiDoki (then again, almost every girl in that town seemed to be in love with Mana in some fashion) and of course Hugtto gave us our first official gay couple with Henri and Emiru's brother.

Mirai and Riko kissed in an official work (the manga). Pretty sure they're a couple.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Darth Walrus posted:

Mirai and Riko kissed in an official work (the manga). Pretty sure they're a couple.

Ah, there’s another one then. Also in DokiDoki Rikka kind of obviously had a huge crush on Mana (there was an episode where she felt so jealous over Mana and Makoto hanging out that she was in physical pain).

There are also some borderline cases like Nagisa/Honoka (especially in the Hugtto movie), Haruka/Minami (I’m almost positive the latter was into girls at any rate), Love/Setsuna, and Emiru/Lulu though a lot of those are more up to interpretation than anything.

It kind of impresses me that despite being a primarily shojo series the idea of romance is barely brought up in most Precure shows (and occasionally just gets in the way of the main plot more often than not such as the Fuji-P arc in Futari/Max Heart) and when it does it’s rarely ever all that important in the grand scheme of things.

blossommirage
Nov 7, 2012

Larryb posted:

Ah, there’s another one then. Also in DokiDoki Rikka kind of obviously had a huge crush on Mana (there was an episode where she felt so jealous over Mana and Makoto hanging out that she was in physical pain).

The Glitter Force version of this was amazing by the way. Instead of Mana's wife, they kept referring to Rikka as Mana's mommy, and I felt terrible laughing at that. The only good thing to come from that dub.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

blossommirage posted:

The Glitter Force version of this was amazing by the way. Instead of Mana's wife, they kept referring to Rikka as Mana's mommy, and I felt terrible laughing at that. The only good thing to come from that dub.

The DokiDoki dub does get slightly better towards the end and while about 17 episodes wound up getting cut/spliced together it actually kept a lot more than I expected (the entire final arc is basically played completely straight for example). Hell, even Regina being blatantly in love with Mana was more or less kept even though it was significantly downplayed (also Regina’s English actress is about as spot on as you can get).

I’d still rank it better than the Smile adaption at least (though the Happy Robo episode is hilarious in both languages) but that’s not saying much. The best dub by default is probably the Futari one though as it was basically uncut (a pity it never actually aired outside of Canada for whatever reason).

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Speaking as someone who has never seen Hugtto or Kirakira I watched Miracle Universe and it seemed fine, although I was definitely confused as to where that guy came from when everyone was hugging robot lady to cool off. And then I found out he was the hamster.

At the very least it kind of made me want to watch the series Harry comes from, although I don't remember if that's the series everyone says is really cool at first but then has problems later on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Hugtto's ending is a bit off but the rest of it is really good imo. Definitely worth watching. Emiru and Lulu are my favorite cures.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Twelve by Pies posted:

Speaking as someone who has never seen Hugtto or Kirakira I watched Miracle Universe and it seemed fine, although I was definitely confused as to where that guy came from when everyone was hugging robot lady to cool off. And then I found out he was the hamster.

At the very least it kind of made me want to watch the series Harry comes from, although I don't remember if that's the series everyone says is really cool at first but then has problems later on.

Hugtto is good for the most part and most of the issues it does have are minor ones (except for something later on regarding the main villain). It does have two in series crossovers though which might confuse you if you’re not familiar with Futari Wa or Yes 5 but otherwise it’s fairly self-contained.

Overall it’s a decent show though with a surprisingly progressive message for a Japanese series. I’d say give it shot if you’re curious (issues with the ending aside it’s actually one of my personal favorites).

Splash Star, Fresh, Go Princess, and DokiDoki are also really good seasons that are worth checking out in my
opinion.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 22, 2019

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004


This time, evil gym? Evil gym.

Scaly Haylie fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jul 28, 2019

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
I've always felt Mana's interest in Regina was more of a platonic love and wanting to save her. She always seemed more invested in Rikka on a personal level, to the point she knows Rikka's habits inside and out and goes out of her way to support her just as much Rikka does, as shown in the Christmas episode.

Also, the final arc more or less states that Regina and Aguri are supposed to be the same "age" and that makes pairing her and Mana up feel not right to me when taken seriously.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Plus, while Mana’s not stupid by any stretch, she has a hard time saying no to people and would probably literally work herself to death if she didn’t have someone to keep her in check. Rikka works better in that regard I feel (plus as you mentioned they do have history and compliment one another well).

Regina was 100% in love with Mana though regardless of how Mana herself actually felt about it (she basically admits this outright). Her obsession does make sense though, each member of the Selfish is modeled after one of the Seven Deadly Sins with Regina herself being Lust.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
No, Lust was one of the selfish trio that was destroyed in the initial attack on the Trump kingdom. The artbook for the series confirmed this; you can see her in silhouette in episode 46, along with the other guy who also got axed, Goma. They were destroyed by Cure Sword's seniors before they too fell in battle.

Goma represents Pride, for the record.

Regina is just the manifestation of Marie Ange's own selfishness.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Nodosaur posted:

No, Lust was one of the selfish trio that was destroyed in the initial attack on the Trump kingdom. The artbook for the series confirmed this; you can see her in silhouette in episode 46, along with the other guy who also got axed, Goma. They were destroyed by Cure Sword's seniors before they too fell in battle.

Goma represents Pride, for the record.

Regina is just the manifestation of Marie Ange's own selfishness.

Ah, I thought I’d read somewhere that Regina was (at least from a thematic standpoint) the fill in for Lust after the original was destroyed prior to the start of the series, which would make sense given her personality and obsession with Mana. Nevermind that point then.

Though going by that logic, shouldn’t Bel have been Pride given the fact that his entire motivation throughout the series was that he wanted to be No. 1?

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
Bel was sloth. He wants leadership but he spends too much time using others for his goals and he never properly plans for the unexpected.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Makes sense, if I recall correctly the rest are grouped as follows:

Ira: Wrath

Marmo: Greed

Leva: Envy (though I don’t remember him ever being particularly envious of anything/anyone)

Gula: Gluttony

Proto Selfish: Original Sin

Not sure if King Selfish himself is meant to be based on anything but if we’re going with the idea of Regina being the thematic representation of Lust (non canon though it may be) I guess her dad would therefore be the thematic representation of Pride.

That said, I wish we actually got to see Lust and Goma a bit in the series (I believe they show up once in silhouette during a flashback but that’s it) as opposed to them both being killed off screen prior to the first episode. Does official art of those two even exist?

Larryb fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 23, 2019

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
I’m really not comfortable with equating a character that appears to be 10-13 years old with a twin “sister” that’s explicitly 10 on a show for little girls with the concept of Lust. She’s just a little spoiled kid who doesn’t understand that love and friendship isn’t a thing you can demand.

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Came here to bark at you




The bit in Miracle Universe where Akira and Yukari were having a sort of teasing "go gentle on me" moment was the most Haruka/Michiru thing I've seen since actual Haruka/Michiru. Toei's already pretty much made clear they're an homage* so I loved it.

* official art

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Nodosaur posted:

I’m really not comfortable with equating a character that appears to be 10-13 years old with a twin “sister” that’s explicitly 10 on a show for little girls with the concept of Lust. She’s just a little spoiled kid who doesn’t understand that love and friendship isn’t a thing you can demand.

All the wikis I’ve seen appear to list her as such (as well as King Selfish being Pride) so that’s what I was going with. Point taken though

But seriously I’m curious, how exactly is Leva meant to represent Envy?

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
The Precure wikis are all terrible. Don’t take too much stock in what they have to say.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Good to know. In other news, subs are out for Star Twinkle 24. It’s a pretty decent Madoka episode and Yuni appears to be gradually meshing in a bit more with the rest of the team (also it seems her Mao disguise wasn’t entirely a lie and she does actually have some appreciation for music).

Only two Star Pens left to go now so I’m curious whether they’ll try to drag this out a bit longer, reset the clock somehow ala Smile (I really hope not), or they have something different planned for the back half of the series.

I still wish they’d give Elena a bit more to do (at the moment she’s basically Hispanic Nao minus the competitive streak) and now that we know her dad is a cool guy I’m not sure what they’ve got planned for Hikaru going forward either.

Also for some reason Toei appears to still be keeping Darknest’s VA a secret for now so it’s possible he could be connected with a character we’ve already seen before.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
does anyone else ever stop and think we're further away from when Smile was on the air now than Smile was from the beginning of Yes, the series it was heavily inspired by?

Ha ha.

The inexorable march of time.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

On another note, I sort of wish the pens actually did something besides power up the Cure’s standard finishing attack (and sometimes you can barely tell anything’s changed). At the very least they could give them a new form like they seem to be doing in the movie.

I also wish the princesses would get a chance to be actual characters at some point rather than just being stuck in their respective palaces the whole season.

Off the subject but somehow it just dawned on me that every villain group in Precure has some kind of thematical element going on. For example:

Splash Star: Elements corresponding to the 7 days of the week

Yes 5: They’re all based on creatures that eat/bother butterflies

Fresh: Each of the main generals is named after one of the 4 cardinal directions (Northa, Sou(th)lar, Eas(t), and Westar)

HeartCatch: The main generals are all named after animals commonly found in the desert

Suite: They’re all music or sound related (except for Mephisto which is another name for Satan)

Smile: They’re all the primary antagonists from various fairytales (not sure about Joker and Pierrot though)

DokiDoki: The Seven Deadly Sins

Go Princess: Main villain is a pun on “despair”, the others are various words meaning to seal something (Shut, Close, Lock, etc.)

Maho Girls: The first set are mostly based on animals, not sure about the second group though

Hugtto: They’re all based on different eras of Japan’s economical history

Star Twinkle: Japanese Yokai

Not sure if there’s a specific theme going on with the villains of Futari Wa, Max Heart, GoGo, Happiness Charge or KiraKira though.

Larryb fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jul 23, 2019

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Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014

obvious pretool
What cardinal direction is Klein based on?

The rear end in a top hat direction.

EDIT - anyway, the Kirakiraru Thieves in Kirakira are named after the kinds of sweets each one tries to steal power from/enjoys eating.

Rio, Bibury, Grave, Diable, and Elisio don't have any theme behind their names, but Elisio's name comes from "elysium", a kind of mythological pleasant afterlife which is a pretty clear foreshadowing of his eventual goal.

Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jul 23, 2019

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