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THOT PATROL posted:(she also was really big into the idea that “saying the words I Love You” and “not hitting her kids” meant she ended the cycle of abuse. that’s another of the running themes in these posts, half these moms are like “well MY mother beat me six ways to sunday and never apologized once, but I never abandoned her, and also I vowed to never be like her as a mom, so how dare my children complain about any comparatively minor flaws of mine”) 
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Jul 23, 2019 17:07
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Saint Drogo posted:ridiculously common. but like a lot of the more low key crazy/abuse itt, extremely low and warped standards for how humans treat their offspring are standard symptoms of even worse crazy a generation or two back "Back when I was a kid I'd get beat when I did something wrong, you should be grateful!"
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Jul 23, 2019 17:12
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Bobbie Wickham posted:You can't just make yourself stop caring about your parents, even if they're terrible people who make your life difficult. yeah well ymmv
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Jul 23, 2019 17:13
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There Bias Two posted:"Back when I was a kid I'd get beat when I did something wrong, you should be grateful!" it's different, I only hit you when you deserved it
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Jul 23, 2019 17:17
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The Saucer Hovers posted:yeah well ymmv
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Jul 23, 2019 17:51
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PetraCore posted:You might have successfully stopped caring about your parents and congratulations if they were just making you miserable but it's not a thing you can just force through because it's not a logical attachment people are in control of. That's all. I still love my mother. But the last time we spoke I told her I would call CPS if I ever learned that she was teaching a Sunday school class or babysitting. She is my mother, I love her. I will never stop loving her. And at the same time, she is a destructive psychopath locked in a permanently disassociative State and there is no possibility whatsoever of a healthy relationship between us. She will never change, any interaction between us can only end with her trying to find a way to reinitiate the abuse or use the information she gains to harm me in some way. I still love my mother, but I will breathe a long sigh of relief when I no longer have to protect the public from her because she has passed. I don't know if I look forward to that day or not, but it's coming all the same. If you told me that my mother would magically become a person capable having a healthy relationship with me, and all I had to do to accomplish this miraculous change in her was to Summit Mount Everest without oxygen- I'd be at base camp within the week. I love my mother, I yearn desperately to fill that hole in my heart with her love, to be a part of her life and for her to be a part of mine. But that simply isn't possible, and there's nothing I can do about that except try to live with it as best as I can. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 18:29
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Saint Drogo posted:ridiculously common. but like a lot of the more low key crazy/abuse itt, extremely low and warped standards for how humans treat their offspring are standard symptoms of even worse crazy a generation or two back yea it’s hard bc you want to excuse the lovely behavior bc you know how insanely traumatized they are, but also like... it isn’t an excuse. and it’s deeply exhausting to try & hold someone accountable for their trauma responses that hurt others when that person won’t even admit they’re traumatized, or that they’ve hurt someone else, or that their behavior might be related to the trauma, let alone do the actual work to heal and make amends. my maternal grandmother who beat the poo poo out of my mom was a polish catholic woman who’d been in a labor camp under german occupation, so like, i get why my mom tried to smooth over her mom’s poo poo! but unfortunately that made her absolutely batshit loving nuts, especially at the end of my grandmother’s life when my mom had to care for her & re-expose herself to one of her abusers without ever having properly healed herself. watching that poo poo and seeing my future if i chose to take the path of “ohhh but you’re my hosed up mom and i love you no matter what so it’s ok for you to treat me like poo poo” was a big factor in my decision to step back from my family. generational trauma & abuse cycles are a bitch oh and for some fun irony, my brother - who from adolescence on was the Good Child - has grown up to be (last i knew) a total neonazi type
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Jul 23, 2019 19:18
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Colonel Cancer posted:If you find someone that insufferable you neither love or like them and should sever. What you call "love" in this case is the feeling of not wanting to break society's expectations, which you are doing anyways so why not go all the way and This is actually what all of the old people are mad about; I hope that helps you to understand this thread better.
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Jul 23, 2019 19:23
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The Saucer Hovers posted:yeah well ymmv You'll have to explain the difference in mileage when it comes to your mother setting your house on fire, then. What exactly are you trying to say: I should have kept in contact with her because I loved her?
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Jul 23, 2019 19:26
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"idgi just call back" Lol So if you call right back - "where are you? Where were you? Why didn't you answer? Reeee" So you put it off because gently caress that you're busy or don't want to deal with getting verbally abused. Then it's the next day, so they're really gonna trip... But it was a lovely day at work and gently caress dealing with that. Then it's 4 weeks later. *shrug* good thing you've never had to deal with it I guess.
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Jul 23, 2019 19:26
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There Bias Two posted:Not wanting to call someone doesn't mean you don't care about them. I can't tell you how many times I avoided calling my father just so I didn't have to hear "how nice of you to call me once in awhile" in a sarcastic tone or similar guilt-tripping bullshit. This, though I get what Yolomon Wayne is saying. My grandmother, who I thought was the most amazing and caring and awesome woman my entire childhood, is actually super hosed up and is shooting both barrels of the crazy now that she's old and my grandfather isn't around to help smooth over the worst parts of it. I still love her dearly, and I cherish the memories I have of her from before I knew *hand motions everywhere*, but the reality of trying to deal with a phone call with her is emotionally draining in a way I don't have the capacity to deal with very often. I mail her a nice card every week so she's not "forgotten" (as she will constantly remind me of when I do call) but a phone call is going to be 1-2 hours of crying (about everything from her brother dying in Vietnam onward) and blaming (nobody loved her enough to take her in even though she needs 24/7 nursing care and literally nobody is a SAHM or SAHD) and accusations (because I sorted, bagged, boxed, and meticulously cataloged every piece of jewelry she owned to show her nothing was missing or stolen, I clearly intend to steal it myself) I can't deal with when I have a mountain of my own poo poo going on. There's no world where I'm off the phone after a 5 minute pleasant chat.
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Jul 23, 2019 20:15
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Like, really: my brother decided to basically disown me because I dropped out of grad school. Every conversation with him after that was about how he's a man who makes $23.15/hour and pays his taxes, I'm a loser for leaving the program, I'm an embarrassment, no one in the family wants me around, and so on. What the gently caress do you do with that? "Your mileage may vary," wtf does that mean? Bobbie Wickham fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 20:16
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Siblings are different
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Jul 23, 2019 21:20
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Pick posted:Siblings are different How?
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Jul 23, 2019 21:23
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Bobbie Wickham posted:You'll have to explain the difference in mileage when it comes to your mother setting your house on fire, then. What exactly are you trying to say: I should have kept in contact with her because I loved her? Sorry comrade goon- I shouldnt have done a drive by in a thread like this. what i meant was i dont feel a lot of the things being expressed here re: love/care. i had to force myself to stop caring about my abusive parents. i absolutely understand the folks saying that its not something they have control over, and im in no way saying anyone has a magic sever button for their immediate family it took me decades of deadening the nerve and im not a better human being for it
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Jul 23, 2019 21:55
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You must schedule playdates with your parents at least once every fortnight or else they'll become unimprinted and stressed and chew their own feet off.
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Jul 24, 2019 00:08
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There isn't the same kind of power differential between siblings like there is between a parent and child.
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Jul 24, 2019 01:14
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Panfilo posted:There isn't the same kind of power differential between siblings like there is between a parent and child. There certainly can be depending on the family dynamic. Some kids end up being basically raised by their own older siblings.
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Jul 24, 2019 01:19
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Panfilo posted:There isn't the same kind of power differential between siblings like there is between a parent and child. When I came home from boot camp, for the first time, my brother told me that he had "been going to the gym" while I'd been away. He told me that we should "have it out once and for all". I told him that wasn't necessary, I'd been beating his rear end for antagonizing me my whole life (he's one year younger than me). We squared off in the back yard of my mother's house. He got me in a headlock. I threw him over my shoulder and he hit the ground so hard I knocked the wind out of him and in between gasps he told me that I won. He still sucks, but we haven't physically fought each other since then.
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Jul 24, 2019 01:23
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Motherfucker posted:You must schedule playdates with your parents at least once every fortnight or else they'll become unimprinted and stressed and chew their own feet off. I laughed and now others are angry at me. If I wanted to be treated this badly I'd just contact my mother 
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Jul 24, 2019 02:15
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I find out yesterday that one of my best friends committed suicide, Saturday. I come into this thread just now and see it's turned from gawping at narcissist boomers blame-shifting to avoid personal accountability, to learning some really rough stories about fellow board members surviving those narcissist blame-shifting hosed up boomer parents. This is a loving powerfully tough week.
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Jul 24, 2019 02:33
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5er posted:I find out yesterday that one of my best friends committed suicide, Saturday. I come into this thread just now and see it's turned from gawping at narcissist boomers blame-shifting to avoid personal accountability, to learning some really rough stories about fellow board members surviving those narcissist blame-shifting hosed up boomer parents. Sorry to hear about your friend. That was one of the final nails into the reason my dad and I are semi-estranged. Three years ago, I got word that my friend/former roommate had committed suicide. I called my dad to talk about it, and after pleasantries, I finally told him what was going on. His only response was 'Oh no. *five second pause*. I was watching the Mets game earlier, and-'. I lasted maybe two more minutes in the convo, and made some lame-rear end excuse like I had to hit the bathroom and just cried the rest of the night, and had this, like, running mental checklist of the times he just completely blew off/ignored something traumatic/upsetting. We'd been on a slow decline for nearly a decade, but him just absolutely giving no fucks that I called him in tears because a friend of mine jumped off a cliff was just like 'that's it'.
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Jul 24, 2019 04:59
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THOT PATROL posted:lollll my mom said this constantly, like anytime i tried to express “you’re my mom and you’re supposed to love me unconditionally even if i’m queer or a suicidal hormonal teenage mess or just suck at remembering to unload the dishwasher”, she was all “of COURSE i love you but i don’t have to LIKE you, and right now i don’t like you very much” One of the last actual discussions I remember with my mom was pretty much this. "I love you but I don't like you". I mean I'm sure there were things after this and all but it's really the last thing I remember her saying even though it might have been months before she passed away. (And maybe if she had taken my advice and told a doctor about a thing that was happening it might have been caught and dealt with. Same with my dad but nope he had to smoke no matter what and it killed him. It took a while and lowered his quality of life but no stoppy the smoky. He said it relaxed him. I'm sure being helicoptered across the state was totally a chill last few days. FOLKS EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO STOP SMOKING FOR YOURSELVES THINK ABOUT THE OTHER PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE.) And that's the sad thing. In many cases if people talked and communicated and maybe apologized a lot of hurt and regret could be cleared up. But it rarely is and all that is left is WHAT IF? In some cases the regret is not telling the parent or child to go gently caress themselves sadly though. Reading a lot of y'alls stories just make me want to go spit in your horrid parents faces on behalf of every abused kid who deserved a real parent and not the hosed up excuse for one we got. Those types just need to go away and even a genuine apology and repentance ain't enough. But some? Some of these problems in SOME of these situations might be solvable with communication or at least the peace of mind because the effort was made even if it would have been more effective to talk to a brick wall. Easier said than done of course. But if it seems possible look into it and maybe talk to somebody trusted or knowledgeable to see if it's even viable. Doesn't seem like most of those Reddit parents are remotely interested in that though. It requires empathy, communication, and not thinking the universe revolves around them and their unrealistic wants and desires. Problem is most people don't really care about anyone but themselves and it causes so much hurt.
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Jul 24, 2019 08:07
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Yolomon Wayne posted:If it takes you 4 weeks to call someone you care about back, you dont care about them at all. If someone didn't call me back for 4 weeks, assuming I didn't have an urgent need, I would assume they got busy and... forgot? Life happens and if you don't see someone every day sometimes you forget how long it's been since you talked to them. My husband loves his family and yet he can go months without talking to them. Sometimes he forgets to return a call or vice versa. People have lives. If my son didn't return a call I would give him time and then make the effort to get in touch again. I wouldn't jump onto an estranged parent forum and cry about how my son doesn't love me. Gee, I wonder why he might not want to talk to her.
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Jul 24, 2019 13:12
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Also you can absolutely care about someone and love them while also admitting you don't want that person in your life because they're emotionally damaging. The world is not that black and white. I love my mom and I care about her, but I don't want someone in my life who will tell me "everyone has a fatal flaw, something that's going to do them in, and I'm afraid this is it for you" when I'm in the hospital for my third pilonidal cyst and I have a husband and a young child. No, I will not suck it up and talk to her. I will not sacrifice my mental health just so my mom can feel better. I won't light myself on fire to keep someone else warm.
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Jul 24, 2019 13:19
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LadyPictureShow posted:Sorry to hear about your friend. That was one of the final nails into the reason my dad and I are semi-estranged. Three years ago, I got word that my friend/former roommate had committed suicide. That's so weird. My kids are 7 and 14. The 7 yr old isn't really present enough yet that this event would impact him in any useful... or harmful way. My older son had enough situational awareness that he kind of hovered around me Monday doing little things for me like offering to make tea and stuff. I had actually already talked with him about depression about a week and a half earlier, because some local news about a teen suicide was going around that I know he heard of; he told me he had no idea what would compel someone to kill themselves, and that it seemed really selfish and dumb. My first reaction, internally, was relief, that it doesn't seem he's coping with depression himself. I talked with him for a bit though about making sure to have good sympathy for people in emotional states he may not ever understand because he can't directly acquaint or experience them himself. He replied to that saying he has spent some time talking with some of his friends that seem to be dealing with depression and cheering them up because he thinks it's the thing to do. I think he's going to be alright, really. My whole point with that digression is that I think that's what parents should be doing. Talking, reassuring, teaching moral character. Hearing about parents being hollow, selfish, utterly disengaged shits that are incapable of holding on-tone conversations just horrifies me.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:07
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5er posted:That's so weird. My kids are 7 and 14. The 7 yr old isn't really present enough yet that this event would impact him in any useful... or harmful way. My older son had enough situational awareness that he kind of hovered around me Monday doing little things for me like offering to make tea and stuff. I had actually already talked with him about depression about a week and a half earlier, because some local news about a teen suicide was going around that I know he heard of; he told me he had no idea what would compel someone to kill themselves, and that it seemed really selfish and dumb. My first reaction, internally, was relief, that it doesn't seem he's coping with depression himself. I talked with him for a bit though about making sure to have good sympathy for people in emotional states he may not ever understand because he can't directly acquaint or experience them himself. He replied to that saying he has spent some time talking with some of his friends that seem to be dealing with depression and cheering them up because he thinks it's the thing to do. I think he's going to be alright, really. If basing your 7 yr old on your 14 yr old, you’ve got solid kids (seriously the tea thing warms my heart). Teaching emotionally engagement and how to read the room is something that parents should teach. Good grades and fancy schools can get you into Yale, but emotional intelligence can get you anywhere.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:16
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teen witch posted:If basing your 7 yr old on your 14 yr old, you’ve got solid kids (seriously the tea thing warms my heart). Teaching emotionally engagement and how to read the room is something that parents should teach. Good grades and fancy schools can get you into Yale, but emotional intelligence can get you anywhere. I feel that if you don't get anywhere at least you won't feel like an unloved basket case. That's at least what I want my kids eventually leaving my house with.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:20
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5er posted:He replied to that saying he has spent some time talking with some of his friends that seem to be dealing with depression and cheering them up because he thinks it's the thing to do. I think he's going to be alright, really. I'm day 3 of 4 of a Suicide Prevention Conference and I just wanna say thank you for talking and supporting your son. The biggest and hardest nut to crack are cis men and isolation/lack of meaningful conversations between men about this stuff it's good to see some of the theory in action.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:25
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Goons with good parents and a healthy relationship with said parents, let this thread stand as an example of just how hosed up bad parenting can be, and how it can ruin your life. I'm not kidding when I say every time I read this thread I just do a little "thank God for my parents". I don't mean this as a slight against those with lovely parents, more just a "that could easily be me if I had been born to different people". It's hard to read some of these stories like Jane's because I literally don't (and maybe can't?) Understand how you feel and how you were treated 
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Jul 24, 2019 14:30
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I think it also puts things into perspective when we have some gripes about our parents. If anything, it makes a lot of issues I have about my mom like small potatoes.
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Jul 24, 2019 14:55
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My parents started out on a dark road in a dark place and it really hosed up my older siblings a lot compared to me, we're like a gradient of totally non functional to roughly normal with me being on the merciful end. My brothers a drug hosed narcissist whose mental gymnastics this thread eerily echos and my sister is riddled with neurosis such that every waking moment is a plate spinning contest and I'm functionally depressed. They came such a long way from those early days and I kinda wish I could congratulate them on it without it being awkward as all loving get out (or impossible since ones dead) but... compared to some of these specimens they are / were good people, arguably better for having been worse, but even still you can't really erase the damage they've done.
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Jul 24, 2019 15:36
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Motherfucker posted:My parents started out on a dark road in a dark place and it really hosed up my older siblings a lot compared to me, we're like a gradient of totally non functional to roughly normal with me being on the merciful end. My brothers a drug hosed narcissist whose mental gymnastics this thread eerily echos and my sister is riddled with neurosis such that every waking moment is a plate spinning contest and I'm functionally depressed.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:04
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Yeah if I thought my mom would try, I'd give reconciliation a shot. But she told me my entire life that she literally would not change and she was set in her ways. I gave her the chance to go to therapy (first without me, then together) and I only communicated with her in text formats so I would have records. This ended up being smart. She was always evasive or omitted important details or changed the subject, even when pressed. The techniques were so pervasive in conversation that I never even noticed them until I forced her to write out all her communications. She's not going to change. Even if she says she will, I don't know if I can trust her. And a lot of my worry comes from wondering if I am being too rigid or unfair with my no contact.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:44
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Sierra Nevadan posted:What? If you cared about your mom it shouldn't take that long. MasBrillante posted:All kinds of stressful situations could lead to this. And it would be exhausting if in addition to that stress, your mother decided autonomously that you must not love her. Especially if this is the first time. Now, these bitter abusers who have been cut of from their narcissistic supply are going to fill up this person’s head with detailed imaginaries of her son flat out hating her. So... it took you 4 weeks to call someone who ABUSED YOU AS A CHILD? Wow! If you REALLY cared about your abuser, you'd call her right away!  I cannot believe how many people read this thread, see the adult children of abusers talking about their abuse, and reply to imply that you're ungrateful. My parents are pretty great. They're not perfect, but they did their best and dealt with parenthood alright. I am apologizing on behalf of every person who kneejerk disbelieves or is suspicious towards you guys because their own parents were alright. I'm sorry that people insist that adult victims must be misremembering their own lives.When someone said that Prester Jane's story was so unbelievable, even a hallmark movie would ask her to take it down a notch, I realized just how loving ingrained this is in our culture (not that the person who said that was implying they didn't believe Prester Jane ) Even the worst examples in media rarely reach the depths of reality, because it's really hard to stomach and would trigger people in the audience, but this media blackout normalizes the idea that all parents are good parents that just have to be reconciled with. No wonder so many kids think the problem is with them! Children's media shies away from directly addressing the subject whenever possible and adults pretend it's not happening!It doesn't help that the abusers do everything in their power to prevent their children from seeking help, but the sudden realization that most people straight-up do not want to think about this, so they don't, is hitting me pretty hard. e: definitely should have caught up with the thread before posting this, other goons have said this but better, but, gently caress, man. I know that victims are always disbelieved, but poo poo. God drat. Seeing it right in front of me, as it's happening, is... gently caress. Like, how can you read these posts and be willfully dense enough to think it's the victim's fault. Beekeeping and You fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 18:04
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Beekeeping and You posted:It doesn't help that the abusers do everything in their power to prevent their children from seeking help, but the sudden realization that most people straight-up do not want to think about this, so they don't, is hitting me pretty hard. Yes to everything you wrote, but especially this. My mother found out I was seeing a councilor/therapist at a women's resource center when I was 16 and flipped out. She forbade me from going back because she "knew I was talking about her." I still don't mention any kind of doctor to her now that we're back to talking again. However, it's also exhausting to constantly be worrying about stuff (like whoa is it no wonder we've all got varying degrees of anxiety/dread pretty much 24/7?) so I understand the cluelessness that comes off as insensitivity in this thread. Someone a few posts ago said it pretty well: purple death ray posted:This thread is like a rorschach test for lovely childhoods lol. If you don't understand why everyone seems to be upset, congratulations! you probably had normal parents I do wish we could have more films/stories about more realistic relationships between parents and their children. That whole "you have to love and take care of your parents no matter what" is really nasty and is everywhere. Can anyone think of/recommend me anything where there's an honest portrayal of an estrangement that doesn't end in saccharine reconciliation?
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Jul 24, 2019 18:22
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Beekeeping and You posted:So... it took you 4 weeks to call someone who ABUSED YOU AS A CHILD? Wow! If you REALLY cared about your abuser, you'd call her right away! if you want a happy thought consider that the same people are doing the exact same thing for people they know are in abusive relationships right this instant. Every abusive household I ever saw, people around them knew, it'd come up and they'd acknowledge it in passing; but that was a bummer and not their problem so they'd sorta shrug and go back to casually cracking jokes with the guy they knew had tried to strangle their kid and had to be beaten off with a bat a couple days prior
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Jul 24, 2019 18:28
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artichoke posted:
That scene from Fresh Prince with Will’s dad is laser guided.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:36
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:if you want a happy thought consider that the same people are doing the exact same thing for people they know are in abusive relationships right this instant. Every abusive household I ever saw, people around them knew, it'd come up and they'd acknowledge it in passing; but that was a bummer and not their problem so they'd sorta shrug and go back to casually cracking jokes with the guy they knew had tried to strangle their kid and had to be beaten off with a bat a couple days prior Like, I definitely understand not stepping in at first if you have an adult friend you think is being abused by their partner. You can't make decisions for them, and often, trying to force them to leave before they're ready just drives them further into the pit. What I can't get over is the fact that unrelated people can see all the signs that someone is or was hurting an innocent child and make excuses for the abuser. Even when victims have proof, or stories, they make excuses. Even when the person making excuses is kind of average and normally pretty empathetic. It's so goddamn banal and obviously evil, but these people don't think they're doing anything wrong. Beekeeping and You fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 18:39
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Just so everyone knows, there is now an Estranged Parents thread in E/N, where you can post your personal stories, feelings, etc. about your estrangement from your own parents. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting in this thread, of course, but it did start out as a thread for gawking at the rejected parents, and I'd like to preserve at least some of that intent. Bonus: I'm the mod for E/N, and will be heavy-handed with probations for anyone trying to poo poo that thread up with "Maybe you're the problem" crap.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:49
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