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artichoke posted:I do wish we could have more films/stories about more realistic relationships between parents and their children. That whole "you have to love and take care of your parents no matter what" is really nasty and is everywhere. Can anyone think of/recommend me anything where there's an honest portrayal of an estrangement that doesn't end in saccharine reconciliation? There Will Be Blood
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Jul 24, 2019 19:02
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Bobbie Wickham posted:Just so everyone knows, there is now an Estranged Parents thread in E/N, where you can post your personal stories, feelings, etc. about your estrangement from your own parents. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting in this thread, of course, but it did start out as a thread for gawking at the rejected parents, and I'd like to preserve at least some of that intent. Now I feel like my issues are nothing compared to what some you guys have gone through. This is definitely for the best.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:13
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Wicker Man posted:Now I feel like my issues are nothing compared to what some you guys have gone through. This is definitely for the best. It's not a contest, so post away if you want.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:34
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My mom was a pretty good mom, she raised me as a single parent in the hellscape that is the California economy, but she's racist and I would not let go of this fact and continously would point it out to her until she'd get mad and tell me she's not going to change and that's that. I talk to my mom several times a week over Facebook and it's all pleasant and cordial but that's because she's moved back to the other side of the world and is now back to only being surrounded by white people. If she was around we'd fight over it a lot more still. I credit my personality to my grandpa.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:44
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Bobbie Wickham posted:It's not a contest, so post away if you want. So very much this. I spent 7 months living in an experimental treatment program for people who were both chronicly homeless + had a diagnosis of significant mental illness. It was a form of 80 men and we attended 3 group therapy sessions a day. One of my most important lessons from that experience was: Pain is pain, it's real and it needs addressed. It's okay to be devastated by your own pain, even if someone else's pain was even worse. My first day in that program was as yo can imagine, stressful and disorienting. An elderly black resident kind of took me under his wing- gave me some smokes, some Ramen soups, and a bowl to eat them with! (Bowls were precious possessions.) We became friends, and he lent a soulful ear to me many times as I learned to process my own pain. Only after several months there did I learn that he was a former Crip who had done 30 years in the Texas pen, and I only learned that because I was in the room when he had a major personal breakthrough. (I still remember the way he broke down while relating something his Mother had done to him when he was 4.) If you have pain you need to share, then share it. It doesn't matter whether your pain is greater or lesser than someone else's, its your pain. Its the most important thing to your inner world, and if you think sharing will help you heal, then share freely and without shame.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:54
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Prester Jane posted:So very much this. I spent 7 months living in an experimental treatment program for people who were both chronicly homeless + had a diagnosis of significant mental illness. It was a form of 80 men and we attended 3 group therapy sessions a day. One of my most important lessons from that experience was: Pain is pain, it's real and it needs addressed. It's okay to be devastated by your own pain, even if someone else's pain was even worse. I want to thank you very much for this post. It's always been a thing in western society to dismiss things casually with phrases like "first world problems" towards not only simpler and smaller issues, but it sometimes even gets extended to the deeper and more complex ones. The sentiment in those phrases have a way of diminishing the reality of what the individual goes through. I think I'm one of the people that feels that they can't talk about their pain if others have it worse.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:28
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Everyone is a unique individual with their own relative understanding of what it is to suffer.
Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 21:47
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Bobbie Wickham posted:Just so everyone knows, there is now an Estranged Parents thread in E/N, where you can post your personal stories, feelings, etc. about your estrangement from your own parents. I don't want to discourage anyone from posting in this thread, of course, but it did start out as a thread for gawking at the rejected parents, and I'd like to preserve at least some of that intent. Thanks Bobbie, but I’d like to remind folks, this is no opportunity to a dick itt.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:58
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quote:Are you the one shedding the tears, or are you the one causing the tears?
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Jul 24, 2019 22:13
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quote:After a 20-yr estrangement from my oldest son, the 19th Christmas season hurt just as much, if not more, as the 1st year did. After reading Sheri’s book, I have 3 different lists of things that have completely rewired my brain which changed EVERYTHING for me. One list that Sheri asked us to make is to name “all the things I DON’T miss about my EC.” I didn’t realize just how BIG that list was until I did it–it was sad and sobering but allowed me to see just how bad things actually were. Another list is to write down some positive words or statements and those are different for each person. As soon as I felt a trigger had been flipped, I’d look at that list of positive words to get myself back on the Happy Track! After reading Sheri’s book, for the first time, the holiday season isn’t something for me to just plod through with my head bowed down from the hopelessness, praying for Christmas to hurry up and be over with. Like Sheri says in her book, if you think your happiness is dependent on what your estranged child may or may not do, you’ll be miserable. I was. As Sheri also says in her book, “You didn’t fail because of your adult child’s choices. Don’t remain forever a hostage waiting for some mythical finality of closure that may never come. Free yourself now by stepping forward.” This estrangement stuff is a process and the process IS the journey. And God knows she didn’t do ANYTHING, because normal, non-narcissistic people are totally capable of not feeling ANY guilt (whether or not deserved) when a relationship dissolved. Super normal. quote:Regarding the subject of gift giving to a grandchild for Christmas or birthday or whatever, after reading Sheri’s book, here’s how I’ve changed my mind on that. Even though my ES and DIL shut the door on us, I continued to send holiday cards, birthday cards, birthday gifts, Christmas gifts, etc. for years. My reasoning was that I didn’t want our granddaughter to think we didn’t love her. But what’s the likelihood that those cards and gifts ever make it to the grandchildren? And if I’m being really honest with myself, a part inside me was really saying, “Even though your parents are so mean and hateful to me, cutting me out of your life, I want you to know that I’m going to continue sending you ‘things’ anyway.” And I’d write notes in the cards saying I missed her and couldn’t imagine how big she was getting, etc., but again, if I’m being honest, I was saying, “Even though your parents have told me to BUTT OUT, I’m going to just pretend that they didn’t say that and do what I darn well please.” To me, that just keeps the thread intact between me and my ES and doesn’t fix a thing. Our grandchildren aren’t going to love us because of any gift or money or cards that we give/send them. They will love us because of the relationship that we have with them. And since I’ve been cut out of my granddaughter’s life for years now, we have no attachment or relationship and we won’t get one because I send her “things.” So after reading Sheri’s book, for me, it feels so much better not sending gifts and cards now. I think that speaks volumes to our estranged adult children and if it leaves them scratching their heads, all the better! I don’t think the sending of gifts or money to a grandchild will cause them to become enlightened on “the truth” of what their parents have done. That’s their journey to have or not have and we can’t do anything to make it include us. If one day, my granddaughter should look me up, I want her to find a grandma that survived all this but thrived and came out the better in the end. MasBrillante fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 22:24
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I can't get over how they view their estranged children as loving mustache-twirling supervillains. "The ECSTASY, the TRIUMPH, of not returning my mother's calls! I am truly THE PUNISHER!!"
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Jul 24, 2019 22:53
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quote:To me, depression isn’t the same as sadness. I think of depression as being a pressing down–of the spirit, of my breathing (can’t inhale a full breath because my chest just feels so heavy) and of thoughts. Sort of like a divet in an otherwise smooth surface. I’ve been on an antidepressant for 20 years and it has never helped with the sadness, but it does help what I consider to be depression. And it helps me sleep a full 8 hours every night which is also very important for everyone and especially for broken-hearted parents who are just trying to figure it all out. No way twenty years of serious depression manifested in maladaptive coping mechanisms or relationship issues. No chance.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:43
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quote:Our grandchildren aren’t going to love us because of any gift or money or cards that we give/send them. They will love us because of the relationship that we have with them. So close to the epiphany lol
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Jul 24, 2019 23:44
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Antivehicular posted:I can't get over how they view their estranged children as loving mustache-twirling supervillains. "The ECSTASY, the TRIUMPH, of not returning my mother's calls! I am truly THE PUNISHER!!" What If... The Punisher's family had never died?! *Frank Castle makes wildly vague, rambling posts on the estranged parents forum about his 'backstabbing' kids that won't return his calls*
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Jul 25, 2019 00:06
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quote:Sasha, if that you think you can’t be happy if you don’t have your estranged child in your life, you’re at a good starting point. All the tears? That’s what I spent years doing until I read Sheri’s book and learned how to be “Done With the Crying.” It turned the tears off completely, took me to a different place that I didn’t even know existed before and healed my broken heart. I want that for you! If you haven’t read it yet, do. You will never regret it!
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Jul 25, 2019 00:59
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Holy poo poo, "they send me cards but not the RIGHT cards" I want a trip report of this woman going to Hallmark, because it's got to be Cold-War-CIA-level psychological warfare strategizing and N-dimensional chess
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Jul 25, 2019 01:17
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There was a chinese program this year about abusive parents that was eye opening for a lot of chinese people even if the message got muddled in making it some 60 episode TV extravaganza. Most commentators were like "parents can be... bad? No no, there will be a twist"
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Jul 25, 2019 01:24
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Wicker Man posted:I want to thank you very much for this post. It's always been a thing in western society to dismiss things casually with phrases like "first world problems" towards not only simpler and smaller issues, but it sometimes even gets extended to the deeper and more complex ones. The sentiment in those phrases have a way of diminishing the reality of what the individual goes through. I think I'm one of the people that feels that they can't talk about their pain if others have it worse. Everyone is welcome to vent, ask questions, compare and contrast notes, and support each other, which is something that most people are inclined to do. I'm sure you have conflicted feelings and genuine pain; I can see that you have empathy for others and a fear of minimizing their pain--perhaps like someone did to you? (Just a wild guess.) Yeah, Prester Jane's story gives perspective, but an underlying theme of her (and everyone else's) story is, abusers try to erase you as a person and the pain they cause you. They minimize it, tell you that your pain and sorrow is nothing compared to what they've been through, whatever. It's cruel and a lie. You can see the compassion that so many people like Prester Jane and bad posts ahead!!! have for others, that it's commiserating, not a competition or fight. You're always welcome to join in and tell us whatever you want to say. Bobbie Wickham fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 02:19
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artichoke posted:I do wish we could have more films/stories about more realistic relationships between parents and their children. That whole "you have to love and take care of your parents no matter what" is really nasty and is everywhere. Can anyone think of/recommend me anything where there's an honest portrayal of an estrangement that doesn't end in saccharine reconciliation?
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Jul 25, 2019 03:22
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quote:I, too, sent “the letter,” more than one over the years, apologizing for everything he said I did wrong or said wrong and any thing I supposedly did that was bad, even when I knew that most of those things never happened and when they did, his brother apparently didn’t think he was irrepairably damaged from our parenting but it was never enough. He and my DIL just twist my words, make something ugly out of them and hurl them back.And the more words you use, the more ammunition you’ve given them. And their list keeps changing because, let’s face it, they’re not okay in their soul and there really is no one list of things we apparently did wrong and what we need to do because the lists kept changing over the years. It was IMPOSSIBLE to please them. I’ll never forget the last letter I did about 5 years ago where I poured out my heart about a mother’s love and how nothing can ever be said or done to take that away, etc. and naming all the sweet moments of his upbringing (I admit, there weren’t much to choose from–sadly) but I listed them and tried to make him FEEL the love across the miles. There was no list on my part, no conditions to be met or apologies to be made, just pure 100% love with no blame and no criticisms even though they certainly deserved them. And this warped son of mine wrote back to say, “How dare you try to make me feel bad and cry. I don’t cry!” I didn’t make him cry because of turning the hate on him like he’s done me–he was actually mad because he felt the love..and he doesn’t want to feel it. So, after reading Sheri’s book, I now know that there is no amount of time, no amount of words, no actions or conditions or never-ending apologies and certainly no “letters” that will ever fix this estrangement with my son and DIL and it’s a breath of fresh air to not be in that mess anymore. Go read Sheri’s book if you haven’t already and re-birth yourself! Noticing this theme of talking about “a mother’s love” as an objective, real object that somehow just exists and is true as opposed to talking about their individual feelings of motherhood which are often full of resentment toward the social role they feel forced into. I think a lot of these women are actually people who never should have had kids and were forced to by patriarchy. They pantomimed motherhood and now they don’t know how to begin a new performance, having only recently discovered they failed abjectly at the first one. Also, I have to say that when I look at my healthy relationship with my mother, the one thing that absolutely never comes to mind is the quantity and quality of greeting cards she has sent to me over the years. BRB going to abuse my mom by buying her one of those $10 Papyrus cards with handmade flowers on it that doesn’t say Mom because it’s blank on the inside. quote:Downbutnotout, I’ve collected some of the key words from your post as well as those that have commented on your posting thus far. Some of them are “scared,” “boundaries,” “strategies,” “guard yourself,” “don’t become a victim,” “don’t let them see you cry,” and “ground rules.” Sounds fraut with potential disaster to your nervous system and your heart, to me. I picture all those words as land mines and you’re getting ready to walk through them on your way to potential but very unlikely reconcilation with your ED. It seems to me that you should trust your initial instinct which was one of “fear.” Sounds like your internal spirit is trying to protect you from being hurt again so trust it. 
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Jul 25, 2019 05:27
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Antivehicular posted:I can't get over how they view their estranged children as loving mustache-twirling supervillains. "The ECSTASY, the TRIUMPH, of not returning my mother's calls! I am truly THE PUNISHER!!" its classic projecting. when they withhold attention or give the silent treatment and see how it inflicts pain, they derive pleasure from it. they can't think of any other reason why someone wouldn't want to talk to them, or they want other people to see it as them being unjustly punished by their EC (Estranged/Evil) there's always a double meaning to everything in their eyes.
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Jul 25, 2019 05:29
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quote:Farmgirl, I am so sorry you’re going through this. The last time I saw my granddaughter, she was 8 and now she’s 14-1/2. It’s almost unfathomable what our estranged children teach their children. In my case, my ES and DIL twist things I say and put an ugly slant on things to make them sound like I am a really sick individual.
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Jul 25, 2019 05:42
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quote:I guess it was bound to happen eventually…last night I hit my breaking point. I need to back track a little though and explain. My ES and I haven’t spoken in almost 2 years…he got married and didn’t invite me..had a gender reveal party and a baby shower without me also. Stupid me thought it would be a good idea to make 1 last ditch effort to try to open the door a little to maybe mend some fences between us before his first child (my first grand baby) will come into this world in a matter of days. I put together a small baby gift (handmade some bibs and burp rags and bought some books)…instead of mailing the box like I had intended my husband (not my ES father) offered to hand deliver it and maybe get to talk to my ES. My husband told me how well it went and that my ES was very talkative with him about his new job and seemed to express joy about getting the baby gift…glimmer of hope I thought….boy was I WRONG. My ES couldn’t even send a thank you message. All the emotions I thought I had dealt with came rushing back…all the hurt…all the unanswered questions were too much to handle and before I knew it I was inconsolably balling my eyes out. I should have known better. I know without a doubt now that my ES is lost forever and that I will NEVER get to see my grand baby. I am truly heartbroken quote:
lol mein Gott
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Jul 25, 2019 05:57
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Imagine thinking so highly of oneself to get upset about not receiving a thank you note from someone literally having a baby for a gift that was hand-delivered and appreciated in-person.
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Jul 25, 2019 06:11
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MasBrillante posted:They sent generic cards with sentiments so weak, they pretty much just said, “Enjoy your special day!” and they didn’t have the name of “mother” on them anywhere. hoooollllyyyy poo poo
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Jul 25, 2019 06:18
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I have more. quote:My now 41-yr-old ES came out different than my friend’s babies at the time. He was reluctant to smile or be happy from Day One. He had a flat affect most of the time and was never snuggly, cuddly, loving or kind. He sapped every single drop of energy I had on a daily basis–physically, mentally and emotionally. When we had son #2 two years later, he was FURIOUS and really never got over it. During his school years, it wasn’t that he set fire to anything, did drugs, drank or did anything illegal–he just made everything a challenge for anyone who had to deal with him–neighbors, teachers and definitely us. He was exhausting! He lied and manipulated his entire life and seemed to light up from within when he’d see he hit the mark. He always acted like he was p***ed off that he wasn’t born royalty and barely tolerated us. He has always been and continues to be antisocial. Only had one girlfriend his entire life and married her. She is the female version of him. I’m cracking the gently caress up right now. Married his only girlfriend. SO DYSFUNCTIONAL.
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Jul 25, 2019 07:16
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quote:He was reluctant to smile or be happy from Day One. He had a flat affect most of the time and was never snuggly, cuddly, loving or kind. He sapped every single drop of energy I had on a daily basis–physically, mentally and emotionally. When we had son #2 two years later, he was FURIOUS and really never got over it. This person is describing how their literal baby wasn't loving or kind enough for them. what in the gently caress lmao quote:We gave him everything we had–love, hugs (even though he hated them), just loving lol
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Jul 25, 2019 07:22
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Some of these moms are straight up Terry 
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Jul 25, 2019 07:32
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teen witch posted:Some of these moms are straight up Terry I’m imagining Toni Braxton in Unbreak My Heart.
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Jul 25, 2019 07:35
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I wanted to post different people but it’s like a rabbit hole every time you find a new person. And they all have years of daily or weekly posts. This is cut from a longer post: quote:Sheri, you made my day with your sweet, thoughful post! In my case, your book and this forum was a life line for a sad, depressed, emotionally tortured, drowning in desperation rejected Mother. It was so heavy! I was so sad for so long–decades. I considered it a victory for many years if I was able to go 24 hours without crying. I tried everything everyone ever suggested about trying to get my estranged son back into my life again and none of it worked. There were times I thought it did but then it would all fall apart again. And being deprived of the granddaughter only made it worse. I didn’t want to actually kill myself but I can’t tell you the number of times I curled up into a ball in the shower, bawling my eyes out and praying for God to take me NOW. I was so ready to leave this life and all the pain of missing my first-born son. I just moved so I guess this is my tv right now.
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Jul 25, 2019 07:39
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Diff lady. quote:
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Jul 25, 2019 07:42
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https://youtu.be/iN9CjAfo5n0 This, this is the anthem. E: fuuuuuck I hate trying to embed YouTube videos
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Jul 25, 2019 07:49
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teen witch posted:https://youtu.be/iN9CjAfo5n0 i thought this was their anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEOpUqpETcU
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Jul 25, 2019 07:55
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bad posts ahead!!! posted:i thought this was their anthem: 
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Jul 25, 2019 07:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49qKb74AXe8 its this
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Jul 25, 2019 08:04
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haha oh man that's a great version
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Jul 25, 2019 08:06
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MasBrillante posted:Diff lady. Like 80% of the addicts I've known, including my dad, used drugs to self medicate the pain and psychological effects of their childhood trauma and I have almost no doubt her son was the same.
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Jul 25, 2019 11:48
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Moridin920 posted:This person is describing how their literal baby wasn't loving or kind enough for them. lol, imagine your newborn son realising you are an idiot not worth wasting time on seconds after he opens his eyes for the first time.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:55
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Koalas March posted:Like 80% of the addicts I've known, including my dad, used drugs to self medicate the pain and psychological effects of their childhood trauma and I have almost no doubt her son was the same. Quite a few fall rear end-backwards into it because they like to party too much. Others just have severe and innate depression/anxiety which they self medicate with drugs. But the remainder are like you said, there's something going on there and it goes deep. MasBrillante posted:Diff lady. Why would you even consider telling your son, who's recovering from addiction, trying to work out his psychological issuesand leaving the door open to a relationship to "gently caress off"? I mean what the gently caress, could you be any more tone deaf? This lady's anger and refusal to take any responsibility (he called that one in his letter, didn't he) is going to estrange him for good. I liked this one because she actually posted something directly from the estranged son. You can tell some poo poo went down too. That whole segment in the middle is her chosen excuse for whatever abuse she heaped upon this poor guy, when she talks about how she was VP of something or other and high fuckface at the DOD
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Jul 25, 2019 18:44
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Play posted:You can tell some poo poo went down too. That whole segment in the middle is her chosen excuse for whatever abuse she heaped upon this poor guy, when she talks about how she was VP of something or other and high fuckface at the DOD She was a hard woman, okay she didn't have time for dumb poo poo like stupid little kid's feefees. This is the REAL WORLD not a HOLLYWOOD MOVIE and goddamnit there are terrorists to bomb.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:49
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