|
Captain Invictus posted:Rami Ismail is a great game dev and smart dude but also really loving sucks when it comes to not calling out lovely dev behavior like that and gets really twitter-aggressive about it 
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:34 |
|
|
Bakeneko posted:According to that, it’s only the alpha that’s an EGS exclusive. It sounds like they’re doing everyone else a favor by letting those guys pay for the privilege of bug-testing their half-finished game before its actual launch. This was may take on it, and I think it's genius. "Here's a bag of cash to make it one year exclusive" "gently caress yeah, we can get it online tomorrow!" "Is... is it done already?" "lolno" Yong's posted a long one about the Ooblet deal, with some extra details like a ton of the discord posts. Most interestingly, however, is the Reddit activity. Specifically the deleting of any negative threads... just like what PGI did with r/transverse that got the entire company banned.  Also the Epic head endorsed the announcement, but he also endorses wage theft and marketing gambling to children so no surprise there
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 16:37
|
|
|
Bakeneko posted:Why would anyone pay to play an alpha, anyway? I know it’s already a thing on Steam, but I can’t imagine being that impatient myself. Don't Starve was in early access for years before it was officially released but was very playable during this period.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 16:47
|
|
|
Alaois posted:jesus christ you two it was a bad joke post
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
Junpei Hyde posted:it was a bad joke post it's still referencing part of a post on the same page that foldable highlighted specifically
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 17:49
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:It might be a slugfest between two megacorps, but as always the people who suffer are the consumers who get no say. And now Schreier is calling consumers entitled shits because we'd like to have more control over our purchases in an increasingly anti consumer industry. Captain Invictus posted:Rami Ismail is a great game dev and smart dude but also really loving sucks when it comes to not calling out lovely dev behavior like that and gets really twitter-aggressive about it yeah, like i do get why jason and others defend them, lots of indie devs get hosed over on steam and other places and if epic comes along and buys their exclusivity and they have the posibility of breaking even and even making a profit, i can understand why Jason and rami would go to bat for them at least somewhat. the issue is epic sucks for a ton of reasons and is anti openly consumer. but alot of these guys don't give a gently caress about them because they are "part of the problem" which while somewhat understandable because of the various horror shows like GG. i still find kinda gross. like Jason is willing to crap on them from generic left wing positions, but thats it which sucks because if anyone could expose their various flaws, it would be him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 17:53
|
|
|
Alaois posted:it's still referencing part of a post on the same page that foldable highlighted specifically i don't blame dan for feeling way he does. what i said was my opinion, though i said it in a stupidly dickish way. but i find it kinda true. like you need consumers to buy your stuff at the end of the day and if you act like a snarky dick or do stupid poo poo, that might affect sales. that being ooblets does seem cute and i might pick it up on xbox at some point . i do think they could have been less snarky and such about going epic store, but they have people to cater to who like that sorta thing. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 18:00
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Reignited_Spyro/status/1157707307234410498?s=19 uh is this real
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 18:48
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:https://twitter.com/Reignited_Spyro/status/1157707307234410498?s=19 probably or at the very least it wouldn't surprise me. some indie devs seem to be so far up their own asses, they don't care what stupidly horrible poo poo they will say because they always know some people will defend thems for various reasons and they can always say "well any consumer who complains is a reactionary so gently caress em" and various people will just clap and cheer. i think coming down genuine consumer criticism in dickish ways or trying to whataboutism it away (like no poo poo their are actual real issues in the world, i could lose healthcare at any day but people can still be upset by dumb buisness practices), just opens the door for more right wing assholes to take those genuine peoples places places. the loving chuds are gonna be pricks and assholes anyway. its in their nature. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
It's extremely fake. This exchange, on the other hand, is very real: Endorph posted:
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:10
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:https://twitter.com/Reignited_Spyro/status/1157707307234410498?s=19 No here is his actual message they edited 
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Hub Cat posted:No here is his actual message they edited well, i take back much of what i said. at least he is trying to do proper outreach.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:16
|
|
|
good, thanks
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:17
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:good, thanks same. i am legit happy they just kinda smug but somewhat responsive rather then, well whatever that was. Glad dipshits faking discord screenshots are doing nothing but giving the devs a way to pretend anything bad they said was actually faked. gently caress gamers and gently caress these devs too!!!! i think this goons sums up my overall opinon of them. treat posted:People aren't supporting a single project though, they're donating to a studio with zero incentive for return on investment. People are paying to keep the business and lifestyle of these dickheads afloat, and the second they're no longer forced to rely on this support they go full Randian objectivist and berate their community for "having the gall to think you might be entitled to a copy of my game just because you payed to have it made. You see, had we gone with kickstarter we might remain beholden to you, our fans, but we took 'donations' from you instead so we owe you nothing and moreover we don't even need your filthy peasant money anymore." Hemingway To Go! posted:They were just a dumb neoliberal indie dev of a couple people. There's a contingent that really likes games like that - see Animal Crossing and Stardew, I actually had heard of Ooblets as well and had an eye out on it before all this - so I guess that's partially why this blew up. treat posted:Holy poo poo. Picture a balding, middle-aged otaku being handed a fat check before violently shoving everyone nearby to the ground and taking off full sprint into traffic toward the bank. seems the devs like digging holes too. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:19
|
|
|
He's right, gamers do suck rear end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:31
|
|
|
Gamers are terrible but all they are doing is giving them ammo. The devs need to logoff for the weekend and come back hat in hand on Monday even if they don't really mean it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
Hub Cat posted:Gamers are terrible but all they are doing is giving them ammo. The devs need to logoff for the weekend and come back hat in hand on Monday even if they don't really mean it. this. like they arnt fully wrong but they are just curbing the hornets nest and hoping it makes them more dosh. going solely epic probably somewhat hurt their sales, this stuff probably has too though not as much as the epic stuff. i like animal crossing and was open to picking this game up at some point, maybe on console, but not so much now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:45
|
|
|
The worst thing he did was decide to approach it with a goofy / psuedo-hostile attitude to try and ward off the criticism. And then stick with it when it failed. That criticism was going to come anyway, regardless of what he did. Best option was to just put it out there, explain the reasons, and then deal with the fall-out. People are also complaining that "they're censoring their subreddit". Ooblets had 1K subscribers back in July. In the last two days, it jumped another 2K users. A lot of these aren't people who are there because of interest in the game, they're there to start fights and be shitheads. Any dev is right to pre-emptively worry about blowback from agreeing to exclusive deals that may not be consumer friendly but save their development team and keep their people paid and fed. This is a version of "no ethical consumption under capitalism", you can't be too harsh with someone for making this choice. It sucks, but the dev isn't the root cause.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:53
|
|
|
The devs made anyone who'll come to their defense assholes. There's accepting that there are going to be unfair attacks and there's inviting an ever worse attack comfortable in the knowledge that other people will stand up for you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:55
|
|
|
MillennialVulcan posted:The worst thing he did was decide to approach it with a goofy / psuedo-hostile attitude to try and ward off the criticism. And then stick with it when it failed. i undestand why they made the choice and i don't blame them for it, but the smarmy dickhead/psudo left/whataboutist approach to explaining it and than constantly doubling down trump style rubs me and a bunch of people the wrong way. i just want some loving honesty. just be open about it. game development costs a poo poo ton of money and they wanted to make an actual profit and epic helped them with that. cool and i get it. loving outer worlds went epic exclusive and i will still get it(consoles but you know what i mean). but they were honest about it. these guys had to make it a thing to prove how wacky and psudo lefty they were and looked like dicks and than they doubled down and then piss on all consumers because clearly anyone who complains is a chud. gently caress em. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:56
|
|
|
The only good thing I can really say about the Epic Games Store is that because they're behind Steam, they go way overboard with giving me free games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:59
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:i undestand why they made the choice and i don't blame them for it, but the smarmy dickhead/psudo left/whataboutist approach to explaining it and than constantly doubling down trump style rubs me and a bunch of people the wrong way. i just want some loving honesty. just be open about it. game development costs a poo poo ton of money and they wanted to make an actual profit and epic helped them with that. cool and i get it. loving outer worlds went epic exclusive and i will still get it(consoles but you know what i mean). but they were honest about it. these guys had to make it a thing to prove how wacky and psudo lefty they were and looked like dicks and than they doubled down and then piss on all consumers because clearly anyone who complains is a chud. gently caress em. Dave Oshry put it best https://twitter.com/DaveOshry/status/1157073247390748674 If they had just gone, "poo poo guys, they drove a dump truck full of money up to our house. We're not made of stone", we might not have been having this conversation. People would still have been cross about it becoming Epic-exclusive, but you'd have some understanding for the devs, since they wanted to get their game out and made properly. I don't accept the whole, "Well, lovely gamernerds gonna be lovely gamernerds" excuse. All it does is muddy the waters of any argument, since you can just try and paint anybody who opposes you as being a shitheel. It enforces a notion that people will never let GamerGate or the alt-right truly die, because as long as they exist, they serve as stooges to prop up or invoke when they screw up or want to deflect criticism.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
Isn't that what devs and the journalists have been saying in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:26
|
|
|
Roth posted:Isn't that what devs and the journalists have been saying in the first place? it's hard to tell. There is an agenda here. The devs and journalists that fall in line with Tim Sweeney or the previously unimportant devs are getting signal boosted in a "look at this poo poo" kind of manner - sort of like how the ooblets devs were an unimportant exceptional case to how to take a epic deal before all this - and the ones who devs and journalists not are getting buried. I certainly can't keep track. We're also entering the part of the discourse this where the opposition to is starting to Epic is starting to get lovely enough that agreeing with any notions they have sounds too much like supporting their shittier notions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:33
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:i undestand why they made the choice and i don't blame them for it, but the smarmy dickhead/psudo left/whataboutist approach to explaining it and than constantly doubling down trump style rubs me and a bunch of people the wrong way. i just want some loving honesty. just be open about it. game development costs a poo poo ton of money and they wanted to make an actual profit and epic helped them with that. cool and i get it. loving outer worlds went epic exclusive and i will still get it(consoles but you know what i mean). but they were honest about it. these guys had to make it a thing to prove how wacky and psudo lefty they were and looked like dicks and than they doubled down and then piss on all consumers because clearly anyone who complains is a chud. gently caress em. Their biggest mistake was framing the entire thing as an argument. They shouted into the abyss of the internet "here's why you're wrong, you buncha dummies, neener neener" and were apparently surprised that the internet might want to argue back. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:38
|
|
|
What's being lost in this conversation, by the way, is how absolutely abysmal Steam is as a platform for indie devs to work with. It's very hard to stand out among the utter crap that's shoveled over there, and they take an obscene percentage of revenue. They have yet to improve even with this competition from Epic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:39
|
|
|
Roth posted:Isn't that what devs and the journalists have been saying in the first place? depends on the dev and the journlists. Absurd Alhazred posted:What's being lost in this conversation, by the way, is how absolutely abysmal Steam is as a platform for indie devs to work with. It's very hard to stand out among the utter crap that's shoveled over there, and they take an obscene percentage of revenue. They have yet to improve even with this competition from Epic. this. i can easily understand why they would run to epic. but steam doesn't care because it wins by attrition sorta. John Murdoch posted:Their biggest mistake was framing the entire thing as an argument. They shouted into the abyss of the internet "here's why you're wrong, you buncha dummies, neener neener" and were apparently surprised that the internet might want to argue back. this. if they had said "we want to make money and epic offered us a ton so we are taking their offer" no one would have really cared. but they tried to make it weirdly political or something and poo poo on the plebs and now they are eating poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:44
|
|
|
Max Wilco posted:Dave Oshry put it best thats kinda also a issue i have. they use the existance of rear end in a top hat chuds as an excuse to poo poo on consumers or not better themselves as company. its weird.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:What's being lost in this conversation, by the way, is how absolutely abysmal Steam is as a platform for indie devs to work with. It's very hard to stand out among the utter crap that's shoveled over there, and they take an obscene percentage of revenue. They have yet to improve even with this competition from Epic. AFAIK Steam's cut is industry standard and overcrowded marketplaces are nothing new either. Indie devs tried jumping ship to the Switch except oops too many did it and now the eShop suddenly has a discoverability problem too. This isn't a defense of that industry standard cut, nor do I think Valve and Steam couldn't be better, I just feel like characterizing these problems as unique to them is disingenuous. Also while it is only a small step, Valve did recently release three new experimental doodads with the pretty clear goal of increasing discoverability.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:46
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:AFAIK Steam's cut is industry standard and overcrowded marketplaces are nothing new either. Indie devs tried jumping ship to the Switch except oops too many did it and now the eShop suddenly has a discoverability problem too. Do these doodads work? Because their "solution" to Greenlight sure didn't!
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
Define "work"? They get games that might otherwise go unnoticed in front of eyeballs. I'm not sure how many people are actively using them day in, day out though. I also have no illusions that Valve will necessarily keep working on them.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 3, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 20:54
|
|
|
I get things through recommendations by devs I follow on Twitter, I've never actually looked for things through Steam; meaning devs could have been going through Itch.io or self-hosting for all I care.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:What's being lost in this conversation, by the way, is how absolutely abysmal Steam is as a platform for indie devs to work with. It's very hard to stand out among the utter crap that's shoveled over there, and they take an obscene percentage of revenue. They have yet to improve even with this competition from Epic. Consider for a moment the types of indie games that are getting bought out by Epic. These are often indie darlings that have had a lot of attention from the indie sphere and were contextually high profile projects. It is true that many indie developers have struggled to find footing on Steam, but these aren't the developers that Epic is going after. Epic isn't offering heaps of cash to middle road devs who aren't shifting shovelware or producing spotlight grabbing hits. Epic is consistently targeting high profile indie games with the exclusivity deals, often only after the heavy lifting has been done by crowdfunding to even get the games noticed. They swoop in after an audience has been cultivated and then start offloading the cash dumps on the developer to go exclusive. Epic's model certainly helps the developers they decide to pick up, but it's hardly a solution for the mid-tier developers who don't get the runaway success funding stories. Those poor guys get left behind and drowned in the sea of asset flips because they don't have the market value Epic craves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Hemingway To Go! posted:Plus even though this is similar to other woke washing things, racism and sexism or the term SJW did not enter any actual statements. It was entirely the devs framing this in leftist economic language while engaging in lovely capitalism and calling people toxic gamers for having consumer based concerns. They are justifying a lot of anti-leftist propaganda. also this post is sadly true.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:17
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Consider for a moment the types of indie games that are getting bought out by Epic. These are often indie darlings that have had a lot of attention from the indie sphere and were contextually high profile projects. It is true that many indie developers have struggled to find footing on Steam, but these aren't the developers that Epic is going after. Epic isn't offering heaps of cash to middle road devs who aren't shifting shovelware or producing spotlight grabbing hits. Epic is consistently targeting high profile indie games with the exclusivity deals, often only after the heavy lifting has been done by crowdfunding to even get the games noticed. They swoop in after an audience has been cultivated and then start offloading the cash dumps on the developer to go exclusive. I wonder if Epic has tried to go after Toby Fox
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:18
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Consider for a moment the types of indie games that are getting bought out by Epic. These are often indie darlings that have had a lot of attention from the indie sphere and were contextually high profile projects. It is true that many indie developers have struggled to find footing on Steam, but these aren't the developers that Epic is going after. Epic isn't offering heaps of cash to middle road devs who aren't shifting shovelware or producing spotlight grabbing hits. Epic is consistently targeting high profile indie games with the exclusivity deals, often only after the heavy lifting has been done by crowdfunding to even get the games noticed. They swoop in after an audience has been cultivated and then start offloading the cash dumps on the developer to go exclusive. Which is exactly what Valve did when they tried to establish Steam,.In fact pretty much every bad thing Epic does(there are many legitimate is issues) is something Valve has also done. Which makes the people using those arguments because they can't buy a game on Steam seem less like they actually care about the issues rather than just stanning for valve. Unfortunately those are the one screaming the hardest so they drown out any real discussion.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:23
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Do these doodads work? Because their "solution" to Greenlight sure didn't! lmao of course they don't. Valve is only interested in crowd/algorithm "solutions" that involve no money or effort from them. Though to be somewhat fair, online marketplaces have only ever been good at serving what you're specifically looking for. I've never had Steam recommend me a single game that I didn't already know I wanted. That's even before oversaturation. Hell, that's even before Steam supported non-Valve games. Online marketplaces don't support undirected browsing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:36
|
|
|
Actual thread content: BrutalMoose's Thrifting: Black Spine Edition
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
buddhist nudist posted:Online marketplaces don't support undirected browsing. Gaben fondly looks at his latest knife, then laughs.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:34 |
|
|
Leal posted:Gaben fondly looks at his latest knife, then laughs. "So what's not to like?"
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 23:33
|
|