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AceOfFlames posted:That's what I thought at first but since Spacey mostly went after men, wouldn't he be extra vilified? it's Rome, all pleasures can be bought. Consent not necessary 
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Aug 3, 2019 23:15
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The Cameo posted:They were trying to chase Asia Argento out of the country before she also got outed as a sex pest. Is her dad Dario also a sexpest? Or can I continue enjoying his horror movies without guilt?
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Aug 4, 2019 00:31
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I'm sure Dario probably stepped over some lines, especially when he was riding high on the hog in the 70s and 80s, but nobody's ever really come forward and you would have figured that would have happened at least once since Asia got outed as a cradle snatcher, but at the same time, the way Italian media flame-broiled her over the Harvey stuff, attacking a famous Italian director would probably be even worse for an accuser. So, for the time being, enjoy, I guess, but never assume sainthood or anything. I mean, did anyone really predict Charlie Rose, or an infirm George H.W. Bush? You never know what tomorrow'll bring!
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Aug 4, 2019 01:47
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The Cameo posted:I'm sure Dario probably stepped over some lines, especially when he was riding high on the hog in the 70s and 80s, but nobody's ever really come forward and you would have figured that would have happened at least once since Asia got outed as a cradle snatcher, but at the same time, the way Italian media flame-broiled her over the Harvey stuff, attacking a famous Italian director would probably be even worse for an accuser. George HW was a known sex pest since the 80s, just no one cared then.
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Aug 4, 2019 05:48
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Italy from what I can gather is Europe's Alabama/Mississippi so he's in a fair bit of danger. It's actually England.
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Aug 4, 2019 06:37
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kittenmittons posted:It's actually England. I thought it was Germany.
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Aug 4, 2019 06:40
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Skwirl posted:George HW was a known sex pest since the 80s, just no one cared then. But did you think he would still be able to do it when he could barely move. That was the surprising thing, dude was so close to the end and his body was so barely functioning the idea he could even reach a woman’s buttocks would have been impressive if it wasn’t so gross
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Aug 4, 2019 08:41
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The Cameo posted:But did you think he would still be able to do it when he could barely move. That was the surprising thing, dude was so close to the end and his body was so barely functioning the idea he could even reach a woman’s buttocks would have been impressive if it wasn’t so gross Says more about how ridiculously far society goes to accomodate sex creeps. I suppose this is what rape culture is meant to mean.
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Aug 4, 2019 09:02
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AceOfFlames posted:That's what I thought at first but since Spacey mostly went after men, wouldn't he be extra vilified?
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Aug 4, 2019 19:39
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Skwirl posted:George HW was a known sex pest since the 80s, just no one cared then. (I really, really remember there being an allegation against W from an exotic dancer, but it's really hard to google and not just get the HW stuff)
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Aug 4, 2019 19:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:FUN FACT: If we look at the last fifty years, only four US Presidents don't have rape or sexual assault allegations against them. Obama, LBJ, Carter, and Ford. And one of them used to show their penises all the time, so I'm being kind of liberal here. I mean if I had multiple penises I'd whip em out at the slightest provocation too.
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Aug 4, 2019 20:43
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Timeless Appeal posted:FUN FACT: If we look at the last fifty years, only four US Presidents don't have rape or sexual assault allegations against them. Obama, LBJ, Carter, and Ford. And one of them used to show their penises all the time, so I'm being kind of liberal here. I've never heard anything about Nixon when it came to weird sexual behaviour with women other than that he apparently used to accompany his wife to dates with other guys before they got married, but that's not sleazy as much as it is sad.
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Aug 4, 2019 20:45
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A Sometimes Food posted:I mean if I had multiple penises I'd whip em out at the slightest provocation too. You misheard, Ford whipped out LBJ’s penis.
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Aug 4, 2019 22:52
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Timeless Appeal posted:FUN FACT: If we look at the last fifty years, only four US Presidents don't have rape or sexual assault allegations against them. Obama, LBJ, Carter, and Ford. And one of them used to show their penises all the time, so I'm being kind of liberal here. LBJ is well known for loving women in the oval office while Ladybird was forced to sit outside and wait. I don't remember if they were secretaries or escorts.
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Aug 4, 2019 23:11
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I know this is not exactly "news", but I have gotten into the most frightening, and yet eye-opening argument on youtube. Normally I never, ever engage in such shenanigans (and if I do I'm too embarrassed to admit it) but this was... shocking. I bet at least some of you have seen (or heard about) the new Amazon series The Boys, which is based on an "edgy" comic book with copious violence, sexual or otherwise, but the series is actually fairly decent. However, there is an extremely creepy scene in the Episode 1 where the "good and innocent" female superhero Starlight, who has just become an elite member of the super-group of superheroes known as "The Seven", encounters Aquaman rip-off "The Deep" alone in the meeting room of of the tower. He coerces her into giving him oral sex after she shyly reveals that she had a crush on him when she was younger - superheroes are celebrities in this universe. She is grossed out, and he says "It's just a question of how badly you want to be a part of The Seven, I guess..." which seriously pisses her off, causing her to inadvertently use her powers to make some monitors and light bulbs explode. The Deep then implies he will say she tried to assault him and effectively ruin her life if she doesn't go through with it. We then cut to her vomiting in the bathroom, mercifully. So, that is the scene, right? Now, to me, that is rape, right? You would ALL agree that making such threats amounts to abusing power and coercion and is, unequivocally, rape, yes? That is how I read the scene, anyway. But apparently this is not how a lot of male viewers read the scene, judging by the shitstorm I caused simply by making the previous statement on a freaking youtube comment section. You see, apparently I am confused, and really stupid, and in that scene Starlight is actually being a total whore - she just wants to be on The Seven so bad, she doesn't care whose cock she has to suck, you see. All the fans I was discussing the scene with, they seemed to agree that they would OBVIOUSLY have just walked away in Starlight's position, it wasn't like he was physically forcing her. And apparently, what The Deep was doing was only "sexual harassment" and "blackmail" - it definitely wasn't rape! I have to say, that I was beyond flabbergasted that so many people seemed to believe this. Sure, it was youtube comments, but loving still! I couldn't... not say something, it was such a deeply hosed up perspective, and I thought it was just a few crazy misogynists but.... drat. There were a couple people who agreed with me but it seemed too hosed up for them to bother making more than a sadly ironic comment. The thing of it was that I could not understand why all these guys cared about this... loving semantic distinction! It was like they all agreed that it was a creepy thing to do and "probably sexual harassment and maybe blackmail" but they were getting REALLY offended and worked up over me insisting again and again that NO, it was actually the very definition of RAPE since he forced a woman to unwillingly suck his dick, but this... was apparently not obvious or clear to them, or they would not admit it? Then I came to a really... horrible, really chilling realization. All these guys were refusing to call it rape because they had done similar things to women (or men) in terms of using power or threats to receive sexual favors from people who were almost certainly unwilling - or maybe they just WANT to do those things. And they DO NOT think of themselves as rapists, not by any means - I cannot think of ANY other reason why someone would care so much about the definition of rape and how it applies in that context. It's the only reason why I'm at all motivated to angrily argue the OTHER SIDE, which is a point they made several times by referring to events they assume happened in my past that were "not-rape" in their opinions... I'm sorry to bring this all up here as it was a silly internet argument, but... well, to be honest that really freaks me out. Like I said, why else would that point of view exist? It's deeply unsettling to me.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:04
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kaworu posted:I know this is not exactly "news", but I have gotten into the most frightening, and yet eye-opening argument on youtube. lemme stop you right there friend
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Aug 5, 2019 00:10
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kaworu posted:I know this is not exactly "news", but I have gotten into the most frightening, and yet eye-opening argument on youtube. Normally I never, ever engage in such shenanigans (and if I do I'm too embarrassed to admit it) but this was... shocking. Men are bad, unironically.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:14
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kaworu posted:I know this is not exactly "news", but I have gotten into the most frightening, and yet eye-opening argument on youtube. Pretty much the definition of 'rape culture' in action, right? I think you're spot on thinking they argue so strongly because they think they would do exactly the same thing if they were in that situation.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:15
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starkebn posted:Pretty much the definition of 'rape culture' in action, right? I think you're spot on thinking they argue so strongly because they think they would do exactly the same thing if they were in that situation. Yeah - even though it was freaking youtube comments, I feel like I learned something frighteningly true about how men actually think - not that all men are like the guys I was arguing with, but I think it's a hell of a lot more common than the rest of us imagine it to be  'Rape culture' in action is right - I could not believe my EYES that people were arguing that the rape victim was "really just a slut" with straight faces, and that I was the outnumbered one in the comments arguing AGAINST that. It was honestly shocking to me.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:28
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The Boys is honestly super loving cool, and the way it immediately paints The Deep (rightfully) as an abuser is really interesting. here's a X-Post from the TVIV thread that does a much better job of explaining why than i could: LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Regarding this, this was actually something I thought a lot about while watching, because sexual violence/assault in media is difficult for me and I really needed to figure out how I felt about the Deep's arc. It gave me a lot of mixed feelings but I think overall it was good (not that he ended up abused himself; that's a whole 'nother divisive thing). I liked it because what it was doing wasn't necessarily building sympathy, it was showing us that he's sad, self-hating, and constantly in his own way, and this fits perfectly with a lot of real-life abusers. Media in my experience has tended to depict rapists as powerful, frightening men (or women) in their own right, which many of them are. But there are also plenty of abusers who are exactly like the Deep. They're the sort of person where if you didn't/don't know what they've done you'd just think they were really weird and kind of pathetic. I don't think it's a problem that the sexual predator on this show was depicted as that kind of predator. They exist too and some people seem to forget about that.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:33
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I mean we basically have a subtype of sex pest that's all aw shucks insincere self-depreciation. Woody Allen, Louis CK cone to mind.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean we basically have a subtype of sex pest that's all aw shucks insincere self-depreciation. Woody Allen, Louis CK cone to mind. but those dudes are both kingmakers. The point of The Deep is that he is the bottom of the totem pole and is shown to have basically no agency of his own, and anytime he tries to be more than a dumb bimbo that talks to fish, like saving dolphins or fighting ecological collapse, he's told to shut up. This is the opposite of Woody Allen and louis CK, who are seen to be as too big and important to be held accountable
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Aug 5, 2019 00:47
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kaworu posted:I know this is not exactly "news", but I have gotten into the most frightening, and yet eye-opening argument on youtube. Normally I never, ever engage in such shenanigans (and if I do I'm too embarrassed to admit it) but this was... shocking. there's a worrying amount of people who have an extremely limited idea of what rape is. i read someone in relation to this show say that Homelander, the superman analogue, couldn't commit rape because why would any woman deny him? Despite drawing these terrible takes the show is a pretty interesting watch and much better than the comics.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:19
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I've been thinking about it, and I guess some guys are uncomfortable when you present to them that rape isn't just dastardly thugs dragging women kicking and screaming into the alley.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:49
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starkebn posted:I've been thinking about it, and I guess some guys are uncomfortable when you present to them that rape isn't just dastardly thugs dragging women kicking and screaming into the alley. In part because a lot of perceptions of sexual interactions, especially casual ones, lie in seeing it as a game with a chase and seduction and manipulation, so there's a fear involved in the idea that what they view as benign "playing the game" crosses the line into unfair and immoral coercion, and calling it rape only heightens their defensiveness. The other part is the general "just world" ideas that apply to victims of a lot of things. The more you can say "well, why didn't they just do this" the easier it is to dismiss. They can still judge the action as bad (yes the robber was wrong to steal your care, but you should have made sure to lock it), but the badness is tempered by the victim not acting as they "should" have. This comes up anytime alcohol or drugs taken willingly are involved, and comes up in cases of coercion and power dynamics because, theoretically, the victim could have just said no. See: kaworu posted:they seemed to agree that they would OBVIOUSLY have just walked away in Starlight's position, it wasn't like he was physically forcing her. And apparently, what The Deep was doing was only "sexual harassment" and "blackmail" - it definitely wasn't rape! Peaceful Anarchy fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 04:58
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I don't want to diminish the impact of toxic masculinity and rape culture on society, but it's important to remember that people who want to argue about what is and isn't rape in the comments section of YouTube is an extremely self selective group. And there's a good chance several of the different accounts arguing with you were the same person using different accounts to make it seem like there were more people agreed with them. Tl;dr, yes all men are trash, but the ones in the YouTube comments section are much worse than the median.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:07
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Youtube comments generally contain the worst humanity has to offer. Do not go in there. There's nothing to win and everything to lose.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:49
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I am reasonably certain reading the Necronomicon is better for your sanity than reading comments from social media.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:53
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davidspackage posted:Youtube comments generally contain the worst humanity has to offer. Do not go in there. There's nothing to win and everything to lose. Complaining about toxic masculinity because of YouTube is like complaining about how racist white people are because of a Trump rally. You're absolutely right, but most of us aren't that bad.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:59
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Everywhere on the internet is as bad as Youtube.
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Aug 5, 2019 07:04
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:Men are bad, unironically.
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Aug 5, 2019 09:35
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I saw a post on Reddit yesterday where someone was defending Bojack Horseman coming within moments of drunkenly having sex with a child, on the basis that the child was sober and had previously tried to kiss him despite Bojack's objections so therefore it was really her fault. In conclusion, nuke the internet.
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Aug 5, 2019 09:53
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Quote-Unquote posted:I saw a post on Reddit yesterday where someone was defending Bojack Horseman coming within moments of drunkenly having sex with a child, on the basis that the child was sober and had previously tried to kiss him despite Bojack's objections so therefore it was really her fault. The problem with satire is there will always be people who agree with it unironically., there should be a phrase for it like rule 34 or Godwin.
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Aug 5, 2019 10:02
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Bojack Horseman if anything understates how awful Hollywood is and encouraging of toxic behaviour. The Boys basically turning superheroes into celebrity rapists was if anything way too on the nose. I bet the Professor X riff is going to have Epstein nods.
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Aug 5, 2019 10:24
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Quote-Unquote posted:I saw a post on Reddit yesterday where someone was defending Bojack Horseman coming within moments of drunkenly having sex with a child, on the basis that the child was sober and had previously tried to kiss him despite Bojack's objections so therefore it was really her fault. We no joke have probably had 15-20 pages of discussion in the Bojack thread here with like 1 dude who insisted multiple times it wasn’t that bad and “whom among us” and just seemed incapable of recognizing things like age gap, class gap, power dynamics, etc. and just maintained a steady “if she’s down, then she’s down” Something Awful is as much of a cess pit as the rest of the internet, the sickos are just better at hiding in their own discords then they used to be. If you play games with goons at all you’ll regularly encounter people who still talk like it’s Halo team speak in 2002.
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Aug 5, 2019 13:37
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Bust Rodd posted:We no joke have probably had 15-20 pages of discussion in the Bojack thread here with like 1 dude who insisted multiple times it wasn’t that bad and “whom among us” and just seemed incapable of recognizing things like age gap, class gap, power dynamics, etc. and just maintained a steady “if she’s down, then she’s down” This is really what disturbs me... The thing about youtube comments is that it's as anonymous as 4chan if you want it to be, and people say the things that they really, truly think. I find it frankly quite revealing - moreso than facebook or twitter (where people have personas they build and followers have to actually be accountable for what they say and defend it or deal with it - usually both. On youtube, people can say exactly what they feel without fear of consequences - I think it more accurately reveals the 'id' of America than any other wildly popular site. And I think you're spot-on about SA, but the same could be said of many places both online and IRL. What disturbed me, personally, is that like... I related this whole thing to two of my roommates who are actually a couple, right? The younger guy in the relationship had been sexually abused/*raped* more than once as a child, which is also the case with me. He *immediateely* understood, but my other roommate, his boyfriend, was legitimately confused. And we changed his mind, because once he understood how power can be abused that way and just how effective coercion could be, he got it and was completely agreeing with us. His problem was that he grew up in a very toxic male environment (which has been evidenced by more than this one anecdote) and he legitimately just thought that doing that *was not* actually rape before we explained this to him. Now, might be that if his boyfriend didn't agree with me he wouldn't have gone along with it, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it really proves my point about how insidious the spread of misogyny is, and how this attitude I'm encountering is NOT a fluke, It's more like a collective knee-jerk backlash against "feminism" and everything to do with #metoo. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 13:58
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One of the reasons it’s such a hard discussion to have is that for a lot of us, we have literally infinite models of doing it one way (the Leonardo DiCaprio way) and very few models of the other ways. Hell, have any of you ever tried to talk to your mom & dad about their relationship? I’m certain some of what they both thought was normal could be viewed as weird or problematic today, even if they really want to be together. My dad was 34 when he met my 23 year old Mom and she loves him madly to this day (he died a long time ago) so my brother thought absolutely nothing of shacking up with a 19 year old when he was 27.
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Aug 5, 2019 14:11
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Afton Williamson, one of the stars of the TV show "The Rookie" quits after racist comments, sexual harassment, and sexual assault: https://www.instagram.com/p/B0vCRlxld74/
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Aug 5, 2019 14:13
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Bust Rodd posted:One of the reasons it’s such a hard discussion to have is that for a lot of us, we have literally infinite models of doing it one way (the Leonardo DiCaprio way) and very few models of the other ways. I think my grandfather was nearly a decade older than my grandmother. They somehow not only raised 8 kids together, but stayed together and happily married for nearly 70 years until they both died.
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Aug 5, 2019 15:44
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Bust Rodd posted:Hell, have any of you ever tried to talk to your mom & dad about their relationship? I’m certain some of what they both thought was normal could be viewed as weird or problematic today, even if they really want to be together. My late father was 18 years older than my mother, and they started dating when she was a sophomore in college. I'd known this for most of my life, even though as I aged myself I realized just how weird and creepy that was. More recently she actually told me the story of how they met, and it involved him borderline sexually assaulting her at a party, her pushing him off, and then deciding the next day to get with him after all. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 17:00
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