|
teen witch posted:You leave the blessed names of Frank Oz, Anjelica Houston and Roald Dahl, even if he hated it, out of your mortal mouth! I mean no shade. Nothing but respect for striking a lasting mortal fear deep into my childhood soul. I mean how many works of fiction or actresses can accomplish that?
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 15:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
MasBrillante posted:I mean no shade. Nothing but respect for striking a lasting mortal fear deep into my childhood soul. I mean how many works of fiction or actresses can accomplish that? Idk let's ask the lady who played the trucker in Pee Wee's Big Adventure
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 16:31
|
|
|
Captain Rufus posted:At least I would get the satisfaction of calling her an awful hosed up person who failed me completely and made me hosed up too. Some chance of closure is better than none at all ya know? That's not closure, as satisfying as it would be. A male relative tried to abuse me and my sister when we were all pretty much kids, over twenty years ago. I've forgiven him since then for a bunch of reasons: so I could move on with my life; because I wasn't hurt by it anymore; we did counseling as a group; I spent enough time on it, in and out of therapy, that I was done with it; he still feels guilt and remorse for his actions; he hasn't done anything like that since. My sister recently rescinded her forgiveness and started lashing out at him, and at me for accepting his apology. She doesn't believe he's sorry, or that I've moved on. She's "so hurt" that she didn't have a bigger role in my recovering from it, and treats me like I've debased myself for accepting his apology. She wants to rehash it over and over again, and thinks that my decision to not ruminate over it means I'm in denial. It's one of the reasons I'm not talking to her: she wants to be eternally victimized and she's trying to drag me down with her. I can't tell her how she should feel, but I'm not going to tell her it's okay to lash out and drag up old hurts because she's still not satisfied with anyone's confessions and apologies, and I'm not going to be a part of that. That's what I mean when I say that you can't get closure from your abuser. Even if they do recognize what they did wrong, apologize, and try to make amends, they cannot give you whatever that elusive thing is that we call closure. You're the one who has to find a way to live with your past.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 16:39
|
|
|
purple death ray posted:Idk let's ask the lady who played the trucker in Pee Wee's Big Adventure The goddamn Trunchbull would like a word with you E: speaking of mortal fear, I never put two and two together: estranged parents and YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjHU0jv4o1Y teen witch fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Aug 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 16:41
|
|
|
teen witch posted:The goddamn Trunchbull would like a word with you I'm no makeup expert (as in, I don't wear any unless I have some kind of hideous blemish or bruise from doing contact sports), but that eyeliner is a very bad choice.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Dirt Road Junglist posted:I'm no makeup expert (as in, I don't wear any unless I have some kind of hideous blemish or bruise from doing contact sports), but that eyeliner is a very bad choice. Her eyes are hooded so kudos on the puppy eye, but a dark brown would suit her better. The foundation, however, is really doing wonders for the Lenin’s body look.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 18:50
|
|
|
Bobbie Wickham posted:That's what I mean when I say that you can't get closure from your abuser. Even if they do recognize what they did wrong, apologize, and try to make amends, they cannot give you whatever that elusive thing is that we call closure. You're the one who has to find a way to live with your past. Agreeing with this. When I tried for closure - for just an opportunity to tell my father how badly he had treated me - I was met with charges to 'prove' he had been that way. Your abuser will engage with you as long as you allow them to, in order to get the narrative THEY want out of the situation They will never understand or see your narrative Just rewrite your own history and move on. The more you make it about a confrontation, the more power that confrontation will have and thus your abuser with it. Take the power back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 18:53
|
|
|
I'm also thinking of a former friend, who just hangs on to every wrong ever done to him. He used to bring up a joke* I made years ago all the goddamn time, and tell me how it hurt his feelings. After a while I stopped being sorry, because how many times can I apologise before it becomes meaningless? I can't make him accept my apology, or make him feel better after he accepted my apology. I can't give him closure, it's up to him to get over it. Obviously there is a massive difference between a snarky comment and inflicting abuse. The principle is the same, though: your abuser can't help you move on, even if they sincerely want to make amends and set things right. *He was going on for the like third time that night about how his life peaked when he was five years old and an only child. I told him to "break out the violins," and he's been carrying that around for like seven years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
trickybiscuits posted:That makes no sense and is therefore probably correct, thank you. A lot of these people make more sense when you get that they don't have a strong sense of who they are as a person- they were never allowed to develop it as children- so they rely on others' views of them to define who they are. And they NEED those views to be "this person is great" because bubbling under the surface is a horrible tarpit of shame and pain, and that facade of being a great person is the only thing keeping them out of the tarpit. So once the children start doing things like not playing along, they freak the gently caress out and are prepared to do just about anything to keep away from the tarpit. It doesn't make sense to people with a developed sense of self because we're aware of ourselves as something independent of others, and don't need other people to define who we are. On their end, someone NOT thinking of them is basically the same as them not existing. So they go to increasingly bizarre and unhinged efforts to keep connections and attention. I've heard it compared to a starving person stealing food- it's not a good thing to do, they shouldn't do it, but it's an understandable action. Unfortunately, getting people with these problems to accept that they have a problem is, for them, the same as removing the shield over the tarpit, so most of the time they're not capable of changing, which is why it's better for their family to just  and leave them to their misery. There is nothing anyone else can do to get them to stop hurting others in their desperate attempt to avoid their own pain.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 20:50
|
|
|
Puppy Time posted:A lot of these people make more sense when you get that they don't have a strong sense of who they are as a person- they were never allowed to develop it as children- so they rely on others' views of them to define who they are. Well, here's someone. quote:I took a risk today with my daughter and tried to explain how it makes me feel that although I’ve forgiven all the trauma of the past 10 years, I still feel such sadness that because my daughter involved my 23 yr old GD in all the conflict she now still refuses to speak to me. I am not worthy in her eyes of a conversation and am being blamed for a conflict I did not cause at Christmas. My daughter admitted some time ago that the two of them used to trash me after phone calls and it just breaks my heart she did thus. I’m sure the other children heard her speak unkindly of me as well. quote:My daughter left her husband and moved to a 1 bedroom apt. The three kids live with him during the week and go to visit her on weekends. For years I’ve been hearing about his drinking and lack of parenting skills. Money is tight and I helped her and so did her brother to secure the apt. Two months later I have concerns about the kids. Missing their bus so staying home from school, the youngest girl 10 wears the same shirt and it’s smelly everyday and no one thought it was appropriate to get the middle son to call and thank us for the brand new bike we bought him and dropped off when he wasn’t there. Maybe they seem like little things and I need to ignore them but alarm bells are ringing because my daughter doesn’t want to talk about a thing claims she just isn’t the kind of person to share details of her life. When I asked how the kids are doing at school she says she didn’t know. I feel shut out and worried about the kids and don’t know whether to express my concerns or shut up and go away. I never thought things could be worse than they were but she used to at least call sometimes now I get a token text. I know she’s dating someone and she seems to have a whole new life without the kids, except for weekends. I’m thinking I need to just get in with my life because I’m seeing signs again of her just ignoring my questions and has said she can’t handle my feelings. I just pray those kids come out of this situation okay. quote:After my daughter neglected me on Mother’s Day, I told her I hoped she’d remember her Step Father because she was in “thin ice” with him. I really thought she’d step up and send a card or bring the kids over but all she did was send me a text at 8 p m saying,” it was a lovely sunny day, hope you had a good weekend”. quote:Daughter and grandkids dropped over for a visit before she took them back to their Dad. Just before they came I got a text that they are all low key and tired. The last three visits they were tired and bored so I decided this time I’d get them something to do. I asked my 15 yr old if he’d cut the grass and he reluctantly agreed. I promised them all hotdogs and ice cream if they would help me. Turns out he has never cut grass before and the mower got away from him. I said let’s try that again and he said what if I don’t want a hot dog. I said go see your mom I’ll do it. A few minutes later she appeared and says I’ll cut it but I says I don’t need help I was only trying to teach him something. She says well he’s embarrassed because it’s the front yard and oriole might see him. I said seriously and she lost it, “ I can’t stand that look in your face we are leaving”. Unfortunately we had an argument in front of the kids and I said this is my face and I can’t do a thing without you losing it. I’ve hit a nerve because you know he’s not being taught some skills he needs. She says their father had had enough cooking and cleaning and doing all she used to do so she will have ti day she them ( to her 2 bedroom townhouse in a different city) more often. It sounds like no one wants to parent these poor kids. I says I’m sorry if my face or my concerns irritate you but I love my grandkids and I have some questions about their well being and you’re not talking to me. “Have a nice day” is what you say to the cashier at 7/11. She is wound up really tight and I’m worried about her but not allowed to say I am because that makes her crazy. I told her I’ve been keeping it bottled up and family should be able to lose it and still know they are loved. I started crying and said I can’t handle your anger anymore. This situation is hard on everyone and the kids need to know who and where they are going to live so please work this out with their Dad and make some decisions. We managed to hug and had a group hug but it was so stressful and I still feel sick about it. quote:My 23 yr old GD is getting married and we are not invited to her wedding. This is 2nd generation estrangement now and she has been taught the power of the silent treatment by her mother. Mom is now back in my life but will not acknowledge my hurt at being excluded ( remember she’s our weather girl who remarks on the weather whenever I ask anything she doesn’t want to address. quote:Granddaughters wedding day quote:I am so misunderstood (that is the real title) quote:My ED sent an email asking if we wanted the children as originally planned before we were excluded from GDs wedding. I replied yes will text regarding arrangements. Initially I was relieved she won’t keep us from seeing the grandkids but when I told my hubby the plan he lost it. He doesn’t believe we can just act like nothing happened and go on treating her kids to fun adventures and sending them home with a handful of gifts. He thinks we are just being used so she can go off with her new boyfriend. He is disgusted with her lack of parenting, and assumption we will continue to provide even though we were trashed. I agree with all he is saying do I texted her back that we are too upset to pretend nothing has happened, so not a good time for kids to visit. In the end it’s my hubby I need to honor and his feelings matter most to me. Sadly the children will suffer because of the choices she is making. quote:My hubby is convinced my daughter has sociopath traits. She will not give me the satisfaction of an apology for excluding us from GDs wedding. (No Remorse)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
trickybiscuits posted:Holy crap, thank you for explaining things so clearly that I've been struggling to make sense of. Was it someone in this thread who said that this lack of a sense of self and inability to interact properly with people led to a lot of focus on surface things like money? Because I've been struck by how often these parents seem to have gotten their ideas about family from Hallmark commercials- photo opportunities like Christmas and meeting a new baby are very important, and wedding pictures absolutely have to include every living person on the family tree regardless of their actual relationship with the couple. They want the appearance of a relationship because that's the only version of family they can understand. I bet her husband has “estranged children” too. Many of the posters have remarried to similarly toxic people which is just...like as close to poetic justice as it’ll ever get. Just miserable together til death.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 03:20
|
|
|
Puppy Time posted:Rejected Parents: Oldest got a cone but no dog. So disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 03:43
|
|
|
What's depressing is that all of the posts on this forum make sense to me under the lens of patriarchy. It's not just that these women (and some men) have no sense of self, it's that they were raised in an era where they were led to believe their single biggest mission in life was to procreate and Raise A Family. Now they sit around grasping at straws to recreate their perfect family portrait and convince themselves that their lives had meaning. Look at how they treat father's/mother's day as the most sacrosanct of (secular) holy days, and if you neglect to perform the proper obeisances, you will forever roast in the pits of Bad Child Hell. Plus, most of them report having had abusive childhoods, which they have generally either internalized (sure I was miserable but I RESPECTED MY PARENTS because I KNEW my FAMILY VALUES dammit) or failed to connect to their own behavior (well I'm not literally repeating my mother's actions so how could I possible be abusive???) I'd almost feel sad for them, if they weren't actively destroying the lives of everyone they come into contact with and propagating the bigotry that put them in their situation instead of challenging it. Like, look at the absolute disdain they display towards non-traditional family structures. Of course there was that lady earlier who tooootally fine with trans ppl for as long as they weren't dating her daughter and being  A MENACE, or the lady who had nightmares over her son having safe sex with a guy, but even in this last post look at how much revulsion the mother expresses towards her daughter's NEW BOYFRIEND. Every time she brings up the divorce she subtly suggests that the daughter is choosing to TEAR HER FAMILY APART by not staying with her first husband. And that segues into the way they talk about other women. If their daughters marry a guy they don't like, they're being browbeaten and stolen away by his family. If their sons marry a lady they don't like, she's a SUCCUBUS who only wants his money.
youcallthatatwist fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 04:21
|
|
|
A relatively infrequent poster asks for advice:quote:I have not seen my daughter in a year. We get texts from time to time. When she sends a text they are very light hearted. They are very surface. I am usually the one generating the texts and it takes her DAYS to respond. Thoughts from the barrel: Crab 1 posted:I know for me at this point I would be friendly but not over-eager. Crab 2 posted:I get the exact same text. I respond with “Love you too, enjoy your day. They are random and don’t really mean anything. I don’t go overboard and keep it neutral with equally meaning. King Crab posted:I agree. It doesn’t necessarily mean a thing. Could be a momentary sensitive moment. There’s nothing that suggests any desire to connect beyond what was said. Crab 3 posted:Kindergarten, Don’t you go climbing out of that barrel, girl. Burn your life to ash.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 06:44
|
|
|
I mean, to be fair, messaging back "love you too, have a great day!" is way saner than dumping a paragraph of baggage on the poor daughter, but the whole DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP routine is hilariously awful. (Also, bets that this daughter has no idea her mom considers them "estranged" and is just busy/not a big texter?)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 06:57
|
|
|
MasBrillante posted:
Should I answer a friendly text with a friendly text in return? No, it is the children who are wrong.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 06:59
|
|
|
Antivehicular posted:I mean, to be fair, messaging back "love you too, have a great day!" is way saner than dumping a paragraph of baggage on the poor daughter, but the whole DON'T GET YOUR HOPES UP routine is hilariously awful. (Also, bets that this daughter has no idea her mom considers them "estranged" and is just busy/not a big texter?) The advice clearly comes from such a wildly ugly place though. And if you are right about the daughter not knowing, which you probably are, there wouldn’t even be anything insane or dumpy about that text. When my mom tells me she thinks of me every day, I don’t have to worry it’s emotional blackmail.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 07:02
|
|
|
youcallthatatwist posted:Look at how they treat father's/mother's day as the most sacrosanct of (secular) holy days, and if you neglect to perform the proper obeisances, you will forever roast in the pits of Bad Child Hell. When I didn't contact my mom on mother's day, she wrote me a text at 10pm starting with the words "you know what", followed by a description of her selflessness when raising me. This was a few weeks after I had her forcibly removed from my property by the police after she showed up drunk and tried to force her way into my house, because she was gonna make me reconcile with her. Apparently she still expected to hear from me on mother's day. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 09:53
|
|
|
Rockbear posted:When I didn't contact my mom on mother's day, she wrote me a text at 10pm starting with the words "you know what", followed by a description of her selflessness when raising me. How...in what logic does that even work? I don’t? Like the signs are pretty clear that you wish to have little to do with her. Sorry but you lose Mother’s Day texts when you cause a scene. You had your Mother’s Day when you got escorted off the premises by cops. I don’t make the “how to human” rules.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 10:36
|
|
|
teen witch posted:How...in what logic does that even work? I don’t? Like the signs are pretty clear that you wish to have little to do with her. Sorry but you lose Mother’s Day texts when you cause a scene. You had your Mother’s Day when you got escorted off the premises by cops. I don’t make the “how to human” rules. yeah but she ""didnt do anything wrong, why am i being punished like this you ungrateful-""
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 11:01
|
|
|
What's cool about them texting is the recipient can't see them gritting their teeth through the forced cordiality.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 15:51
|
|
|
teen witch posted:How...in what logic does that even work? I don’t? Like the signs are pretty clear that you wish to have little to do with her. Sorry but you lose Mother’s Day texts when you cause a scene. You had your Mother’s Day when you got escorted off the premises by cops. I don’t make the “how to human” rules. From similar people I know, I think part of it is "My parents were actually abusive and I'm still performing the role as dutiful son/daughter, and I wasn't nearly as bad as them* and I made effort even though it was hard so I deserve the reward of connection (so I can keep feeling like a good person and avoid the pain of doubting that)." Like this is a mindset that relies almost entirely on appearances, and also finds it really hard to accept bad actions on their part as reality (because it'd break the Good Person facade they require to avoid pain), so you can make sense of the actions by seeing it as "I need you to keep up appearances because I'm not capable of dealing with a reality where my efforts and sacrifices didn't pay off." Again, it's a situation where the facade of good person is the only defense the person has from sinking into an oblivion of shame and pain, to the point that they can't see things from any other point of view, because maintaining the facade is keeping up 99% of their mental power. Though they're probably aware on some level that their reactions are unusually strong, so they unconsciously have to construct a reason why they're so upset- "I went over the line with my kids so they said gently caress off" doesn't merit the level of pain they feel, whereas "I martyr myself regularly for my children, and they cruelly abandon me" does. Not a carefully plotted out narrative (if they were capable of that, they wouldn't be screaming on your doorstep) but the first thing their mind seizes on, faster than conscious thought. Also bear in mind that this mindset didn't form in a vacuum, and they've likely been trained from the start by their families to Be Good Or Else, where "Be Good" is "do whatever the parents tell you, no matter what." So from that point of view, children who stand up for themselves and protect themselves are breaking the rules of nature. It's easier to understand the bizarre logic once you realize that the behavior is all about protecting an image in the moment to avoid the mind-crushing pain and shame. It's the psychological equivalent of someone trying to hold off a rampaging monster with whatever happens to be on hand- they don't have the time to think, plot, or prepare, because the monster is RIGHT THERE and will absolutely destroy them if given the chance, so they just grab whatever and keep it up. *Probably true, though obviously they're still absolutely terrible parents
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 16:44
|
|
|
teen witch posted:How...in what logic does that even work? I don’t? Like the signs are pretty clear that you wish to have little to do with her. Sorry but you lose Mother’s Day texts when you cause a scene. You had your Mother’s Day when you got escorted off the premises by cops. I don’t make the “how to human” rules. She literally thinks she can bully her way through anything. If she's just mean and loud and crazy enough, she'll ultimately get her way. Imagine "I want to speak to your manager" as a general interpersonal communication strategy. My mom exhibits a cognitive distortion that I think drives most (maybe all) of these people: "If I am in pain then I am the victim." Our estrangement hurts her, so she is the victim and it is my fault. Not hearing from me on mother's day hurts her, so no matter the extenuating circumstances, she is the victim and it is my fault. Of course, if she is the victim, then I am by default the victimizer. From this flawed perspective, quietly moving on with my life is a form of abusive behavior. Since I'm abusing her, it's perfectly reasonable that she's filled with rage toward me. It's perfectly reasonable to get drunk and then stand in my yard screaming obscenities at 2am. I'm hurting her every day! I deserve much worse! This one distortion is so toxic that nothing can grow while it remains in the soil. Until she corrects this fundamental misunderstanding, there is no possibility for reconciliation. Not holding my breath. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
MasBrillante posted:A relatively infrequent poster asks for advice: What Would Ayn Rand Text: A Game Theory Approach to Human Communication
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
trickybiscuits posted:Holy crap, thank you for explaining things so clearly that I've been struggling to make sense of. Was it someone in this thread who said that this lack of a sense of self and inability to interact properly with people led to a lot of focus on surface things like money? Because I've been struck by how often these parents seem to have gotten their ideas about family from Hallmark commercials- photo opportunities like Christmas and meeting a new baby are very important, and wedding pictures absolutely have to include every living person on the family tree regardless of their actual relationship with the couple. They want the appearance of a relationship because that's the only version of family they can understand. Ah yes the loving grandparent who cares about her grandchildren's well-being and withholds clothing even though it's much needed because her daughter's text message wasn't loving enough. These people really do view love and relationships as entirely conditional and transactional. It honestly makes me sad that they're incapable of loving the very people in life who you're supposed to love unconditionally (your children). Puppy Time posted:From similar people I know, I think part of it is "My parents were actually abusive and I'm still performing the role as dutiful son/daughter, and I wasn't nearly as bad as them* and I made effort even though it was hard so I deserve the reward of connection (so I can keep feeling like a good person and avoid the pain of doubting that)." You basically just described my mom. Her parents were actually physically abusive so she thinks she was a great parent because she didn't beat us. I still got spanked with a wooden spoon, but because she didn't leave bruises she was better than her parents. She also doesn't seem to recognize that she's emotionally abusive and manipulative. She also still talks to her mom. She literally thinks that because her mom was worse than she was, and she still talks to her, that I should put up with whatever bullshit from her because she takes bullshit from her own mom. I'm sure in her mind the narrative is that I've abandoned her (even though she told me she wouldn't talk to me again) simply because I won't be a good girl and chase after her begging her to love me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
Clark Nova posted:I'm deeply envious of the people who wander into this thread and don't immediately recognize the voice in those estranged parent posts this
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 20:52
|
|
|
youcallthatatwist posted:What's depressing is that all of the posts on this forum make sense to me under the lens of patriarchy. It's not just that these women (and some men) have no sense of self, it's that they were raised in an era where they were led to believe their single biggest mission in life was to procreate and Raise A Family. Now they sit around grasping at straws to recreate their perfect family portrait and convince themselves that their lives had meaning. Look at how they treat father's/mother's day as the most sacrosanct of (secular) holy days, and if you neglect to perform the proper obeisances, you will forever roast in the pits of Bad Child Hell. Plus, most of them report having had abusive childhoods, which they have generally either internalized (sure I was miserable but I RESPECTED MY PARENTS because I KNEW my FAMILY VALUES dammit) or failed to connect to their own behavior (well I'm not literally repeating my mother's actions so how could I possible be abusive???)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
quote:Oh SweetCaroline, you have come to the right place. We know the same hurt, anger and shame, we know it all too well. No one is perfect and couldn’t possibly be. We have all made mistakes. Don’t blame yourself for this estrangement. Any mistakes made were not worth estranging from a parent over. I am pretty confident in saying your son will make mistakes with his family as well. Forgive yourself for you mistakes and don’t blame the estrangement on any thing you have done. As you said, you did the best you could do. We are humans and that is all we can offer. I’m so thankful you have one son that shows you your value and appreciates you.  Hmmm that's an interesting take let's peruse this poster's history quote:There was no horrible mistakes I made that caused this and I know it. Realizing again, I was and I am a good parent I went to the Cheesecake Factory to celebrate the Mother’s Day that she was too busy to remember. Yes, I know it is February but I thought better late than never, I was not crying and I deserve a Mother’s Day. quote:I have been doing hard thinking and making list about the things my daughter said I need to work on. Well, she is WRONG!!! I believe I am a normal mother that would do anything and everything they could if they thought their child was putting themselves and others in danger, mine definitely was. Nothing is off limits when you think you are trying to save their life. No more working on me, I’m fine. She needs to work on herself. Nuff said on this subject. Ain’t going to hear that crap anymore. I wonder what this lady has done to her daughter quote:Once while home for a rare weekend she went to a party and called me at 2am to pick her up. I went to the party and a group of young people opened my passenger door and shoved her in the car, reached in and buckled her in, then started screaming take off, take off. I drove away and was going 40 mph when she took off her seatbelt and tried jumping out of my car. She had on a new pair of boots and the street gravel ate a hole in her boot the size of my fist. I had no place to pull over and was holding her in the car by her shirt that finally tore from her body. She was screaming, I want to go back to the party over and over. I finally pulled over and told her I would take her home to put on fresh clothes and take her back. Once home I woke my husband and he pinned her in the backseat and we took her to the hospital. My elderly mother only came to visit once a year because we lived 8 hours away. Mostly we would visit her. My mother was so traumatized she never came back and passed a few years later.  Holy poo poo this is the same lady I posted earlier in the thread who loving dragged her daughter from her car and whose mother thought it was so hosed up she never came back to visit her. But she deserved that mother's day!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:42
|
|
|
That is such a bizarre story I'm having trouble following it. Mom's leaving a bunch of poo poo out. Daughter tries to jump out of a moving vehicle, and mom keeps driving? And mom is more concerned about her ruining a pair of boots. Also you don't need a place to pull over when someone is hanging out of your loving car. You stop and you help them out. No mistakes here!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 01:07
|
|
|
I just noticed something else. Forgive me if this is obvious. Many of these mothers don't even like their Estranged Children. In so much as they don't like them as people, and don't enjoy their company, and don't can't relate to them/hang out as friends. Which, to me, makes all their wailing and gnashing of teeth about being estranged a little odd. They don't want actual contact/a relationship with their children or grandchildren, they want the idea of a relationship with their children/grandchildren. So, as a poster said above, they slot it into their memories as a perfect Hallmark photo of their perfect Norman Rockwell family. And sadly reality is seldom like that, even for good, normal, non-toxic families. Another thing I am finding odd, (although maybe this is just a symptom of the house style of that forum, and the way people on the internet exaggerate), is the theatrical and performative PAIN that these people are in. It is never, "My daughter called me an abusive bitch, so I was angry at her and felt bad.", it is always "I received a birthday card from my grandson but he only signed it with his name and didn't hand write I love you grandma. I have been crying and wailing at the skies in eternal torment for the last 2 weeks over the agony my ungrateful daughter has caused me over this estrangement." And I would imagine that no apology would ever be good enough for such a terrible slight, and so that may be another reason that the children keep their distance, to avoid all the operatic "woe is me" and "it's your fault I burned the toast last Wednesday" wailing. A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."?
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 01:32
|
|
|
oh, i'm definitely hypersensitive. and i'm always worried about offending or hurting other people
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 01:45
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."? Both!!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 02:09
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:I just noticed something else. Forgive me if this is obvious. Yes! Narcissists are very theatrical. They live for these performances. For my parents, it's all about appearances. It's very important for them to appear to be intelligent, successful people. When my brother and I were kids it was important for them to appear to be good parents. Not to actually be good parents. They did not do that work. As long as they appeared to be doing their jobs, that was enough for them. My dad apparently had a great work ethic at work, so naturally everyone assumed it would be the same at home. He did a good job of painting this picture of my brother and myself as rebellious/ungrateful children. That was not reality. My mother died of cancer when I was a kid, and my dad remarried this crazy person he'd been screwing around on her with. Well, my new stepmother would brag to everyone about how God had blessed her with two more children, after she was unable to have kids. Never gave a single poo poo about either of us when she wasn't being watched. Same with her own biological children. I don't even want to think about what she put them through. It was really like someone flicked a switch when she no longer had an audience to impress. BrigadierSensible posted:A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."? I don't feel desensitized. Probably the opposite. It's probably compensating, in a way, because I've spent so much time with people who trivialize everyone else's pain or make grand, bullshit statements about suffering. I don't tend to have big reactions when things happen though. Sometimes I worry that, because I've been working so hard to ignore my loving drama queen parents, that I don't give people enough attention when they do need it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 02:13
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."? Yes. I realize my damage is pretty lightweight compared to a lot of stories shared here. My mom weaponized gift giving and thank yous to the point where I've purposefully recused myself from major holidays and will send people random gifts because, gently caress it, if I see something that I think someone would like and I have to means to get it, I'm just gonna do that, and who CARES if it's a holiday? She also filled my head with hosed up body image/sexuality issues and didn't notice how much her, "I was a perfect student, and you're smarter than I am, so you need to be EXCEPTIONALLY PERFECT," bullshit went to my head and didn't get discharged til after I washed out of college. When I lost a job for openly dating another woman, she told me, "Don't be gay at your next job, and maybe you won't get fired." She meant it to be constructive criticism, but...duuuuuude. Also, Mom, I'm loving bi, get it right for once? After her mother died, a lot of family history started oozing out of the woodwork. I knew my grandma was a bad mother, but she was more of an active terrorist in my mom's upbringing than any of us had realized. Her older sister (there were just the two of them) shielded her from a lot, but as soon as she had the opportunity to leave, she peaced out and left my mom to whatever. I don't think Grandma was physically abusive, but she was definitely emotionally abusive, and my mom's damage is clearly a result of that. Then we found out that, going back even further, Grandma's father most likely murdered her mother in a drunken rage, or at least accidentally killed her by shoving her near the stairs that she then fell down. So THAT'S fun. I mean, it's good that each subsequent generation seems to have trended closer to good mental health, but it's been a struggle that's involved therapy and moving three states over after having lived in their basement for 6 months in my early 30s. My mom is finally on a low dose SSRI and occasional benzos for her obvious anxiety, and she's 300% more tolerable to be around. We still have moments where she'll say something like, "You have such a nice figure, why don't you wear something more feminine?" but at least now my dad is willing to butt in and help me shut that poo poo down. (Also, Mom? It's super confusing when you tell me to be less gay, but then tell me I should get Rachel Maddow's haircut?) Anyway, I have to give my parents credit for going out of their way to tell me they would would never disown me when I came out, and for supporting me when I needed financial and housing help while unemployed. We've dealt with a lot of our damage and come to a better place as a family. But going back to the question, I do waffle between getting frustrated at people who seem to be crying over minor poo poo, and also being a people pleaser. I got into an incredibly toxic relationship with a very needy partner and it wasn't until he left that I realized how much I'll subsume my own needs to make my living situation comfortable and conflict-free. At least I've come to terms with having to be more assertive at work, and I don't let work people walk all over me at the office anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 02:56
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."? Desensitization is common, so is hyper-sensitivity. Like with a lot of traumas, it tends to fling you hard in one direction or the other. Even more insidious is when the theatrics become so normalized that when people act normally, it barely registers, so you interpret it as coldness or lack of care. It's like the emotional equivalent of trying to talk to your friends after a concert. Everything is muffled, so normal sounds seem extra quiet, and if he really loved me wouldn't he be more jealous that I maintain friendships with other men? It can take a long time to re-tune your emotional gauges.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 09:16
|
|
|
This seems relevant. My In-Laws Are Careless About My Deadly Food Allergy! quote:I have a very severe allergy to mushrooms. I carry an EpiPen, and I have been hospitalized multiple times because of exposure to this food. One time, I began convulsing in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. My husband politely explained this to his parents when we started dating, and I was invited to family meals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 09:33
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:I just noticed something else. Forgive me if this is obvious. They don't even know who their adult kids are and they don't really care. They wouldn't be happy if their kids folded completely and gave them the relationship they think they deserve, they would spend that relationship finding things to gripe and complain about. quote:A question. And I am sorry if it is rude. But to people who grew up with parents like that, does it de-sensitize you to other people's real pain? i.e. "Yeah, I can see you crying, but that doesn't affect me because I have seen my mum do worse over a cup of spilled milk.", or are you hyper-sensitive to it, i.e. "Please please please don't be upset, I will do anything to stop you from being even the slightest upset because I am scared it will erupt into wailing and gnashing of teeth like it did with my mum."? Dogg I have such a hard time being around an upset person. I hear unspoken accusations in every word anybody says to me. "What's been going on with you?" translates to "Because whatever it is, it's stupid bullshit and you've been wasting your time." So when somebody near me is upset my reptile brain tells me they're definitely upset at me, specifically. I go into damage control mode and will forget anything about my own situation to try and solve whatever problem is causing the upset. I have a real tendency to do anything I can to keep the peace which causes me to be unable to assert myself or stand up to criticism. I hate to be noticed because it's never led to anything good for me. If I was bad at something I'd get yelled at, if I was good at anything my dad would tear me down and my mom would try to find a way for me to make money off of it so I eventually stopped sharing anything with them. Realizing all these specific connections doesn't do nearly enough to stop myself from reacting in these ways but it's a start.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 14:39
|
|
|
quote:My sister and my daughter have always had a better relationship, in fact, both of them are more like mother and daughter than I could ever hope for, and always longed to have. Sadly however, my daughter never seemed to want that from me, from an early age (single digits) it was clear who the favourite was (aunty of course)! Mum was the one who provided material things but aunty was the “go to”‘ BFF. And now that my sister’s own daughters have estranged her, suddenly my daughter has become “precious angel”‘ and ”the kind of daughter she always wished for and never had in her own children”. Seriously? Has she been sleeping lately, has she not seen what my darling daughter has put me through? That’s “precious”??? the amount of malice & agency ascribed to a literal newborn is kind of amazing
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 14:44
|
|
|
God, sister, my nine-year-old daughter is such a BITCH for not wanting to hang off of my every word. Ugh. I can't believe she's not even in middle school and she's already learned to ENMESH people! Man, what a wet blanket. Wait what do you mean she wants to spend more time with you
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Oh christ, the hypersensitivity. I've gotten better at it over the years but my stepmother (who's pretty nice) has even noticed at some points how defensive I am. Constantly catastrophising and feeling like you're walking on eggshells because they could blow up over literally anything, and just as likely brush something off or completely ignore it because they can't be bothered.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:34
|
|
