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I mean I guess I feel like boxing prompts these discussions because the fighters are essentially trying to get as close as they can to beating their opponents to death without actually doing it, so the shock expressed by the boxing community and society at large is basically a pikachu face thing. When you compare it to other sports, Boxing doesn't stack up well. There are about 10 people who die immediately after a bout every year. Beyond that, it's difficult to count the number of people who take serious brain injury and end up in a coma or something similar. Beyond that, it's even harder to get exact numbers on how many fighters take life shortening or diminishing amount of punishment by the time they retire (although it's probably close to all of them) Are there more dangerous sports per athlete? It's surprisingly difficult to get great numbers but it seems like for deaths BASE jumping and racing are the only ones that are clearly more deadly for the number of athletes in the sport. But that's just deaths. It's a sport where we pay to watch two guys who get paid to beat the gently caress outta each other, and in nearly every bout both walk away with injuries. Mostly minor ones sure, but think of your favourite fight right now. Our favourite fights, Fight Of The Year candidates almost always involve both fighters taking punishment and getting knocked down. And like, lets not gently caress around here, a knockout is brain damage. Even knock downs are usually the result of concussion. It's pretty hard to ignore what the effect of all this is. Even if a fighter gets through their career without a significant traumatic injury, they've still head their head knocked around. CTE was originally known as Pugilistic Dementia because it was so strongly associated with boxers. Other mental diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's have more questionable links, but it certainly seems like boxers have a lot of neurological problems. According to abstract I found boxers with more than 12 bouts were recorded as having a high level of what is essentially brain damage. Getting too into the numbers takes the human element of it though, there's a few videos showing older former boxers giving interviews and they're hard to watch. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JCr6EfleG8
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Jul 26, 2019 19:33
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Two more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxYO33XpT04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSxZ1c1Cy4
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Jul 26, 2019 19:52
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Heck you don't even need to look at old fighters for brain damage: https://twitter.com/amirkingkhan/status/1154827006183444480
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Jul 26, 2019 20:18
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The only sport I can think of offhand that has a more regular amount of fatalities than boxing is motorcycle road racing, and specifically road courses vs closed circuits with run-off areas. There's at least one fatality per running of the Isle of Man TT, and I think the first year I started really following MotoGP, there were deaths at the NatWest 200 and Macau as well. Never mind that even at the premiere class levels, I can recall at least 3 deaths off the top of my head just since I started watching. Open wheel car racing is slightly safer, but F1 and the feeder classes have claimed several lives due to head trauma since 1994, and Indycar has seen multiple fatalities in the same span. And that's not counting spine injuries and amputations. Robert Wickens and Alex Zanardi are both competing even after horror crashes, and they're the lucky ones. But even with racing, it's not a steady decline into sponge brain, because the point of the sport is not repeated sub-to-fully-concussive blows to the brain and internal organs. I'm not trying to cast judgement. I'm just sharing what I know of another sport where I've had to come to terms with waking up in the middle of the night and wondering why I bother.
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Jul 26, 2019 20:34
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Fatalities are irrelevant unless you’re directly comparing two sports with similar goals and execution. Example: all motorsports have an element of danger, because of the speeds at which they’re carried out, and drawing comparisons between them seems logical: “man drives machine accurately at high speed” fits a great many sports. Unless ‘Mad Max- Death Race 2000’ racing suddenly becomes a thing, where the goal is to win by violence, trying to rationalise a link between fatalities in a non-violent sport, like motor racing, and boxing which is inherently violent, is sophistry. People die easily in many sports; physically injuring your opponent until he is rendered unable to continue is the province of very few.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:11
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david carmichael posted:Basically are we upset about the exploitation of the disadvantaged for our pointless benefit/entertainment, or are we upset that we let people box for any reason? I think that if there was no money in boxing and it was free to watch and people did it for voluntary fun like softball or rec bball then its fine. Just two consenting adults giving each other brain damage out of love of the game I think it’s mostly that no one films sweatshop slaves dying of heatstroke or logs falling on lumberjacks and we don’t throw parties to watch it happen and cheer while it does
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Jul 26, 2019 21:29
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DeimosRising posted:I think it’s mostly that no one films sweatshop slaves dying of heatstroke or logs falling on lumberjacks and we don’t throw parties to watch it happen and cheer while it does No, we just buy the tv we watch it on from there, or the laptop used to stream it and the roku or fire stick the laptop is streaming to or any number of other things in the room where the watch party is being held.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:44
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sportsgenius86 posted:No, we just buy the tv we watch it on from there, or the laptop used to stream it and the roku or fire stick the laptop is streaming to or any number of other things in the room where the watch party is being held. Yes, but we don't watch the sweat shops where those are made, which was the point. Out of sight out of mind is actually a thing.
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Jul 26, 2019 21:49
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colachute posted:Yes, but we don't watch the sweat shops where those are made, which was the point. Out of sight out of mind is actually a thing. Yeah. As a fight sport fan you’re no more or less complicit in the death of a fighter than you are in all the other deaths that’s support your life style, but getting really amped for what turns out to have been a death match may make all that suffering suddenly much more immediately real to you
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Jul 26, 2019 22:10
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presumably most of us are against the idea of sweatshops also Not that any of you are a fan of boxers dying, but we are undoubtedly actively engaged in the promotion of prizefighting and getting excited about fights etc, as opposed to passively being complicit in a society that requires a form of violence to exist. also, it doesn't loving matter what other things are deadly and dangerous when we're talking about boxing. at least the comparisons to other sports are fair because its a similar type of engagement but when we're talking about sweatshops we've truly lost the plot.
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Jul 27, 2019 05:07
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Also with respect to racing as one of the few sports more deadly than boxing, I think it's a fair comparison point and I'm although I'm not a fan of racing I wouldn't be too surprised if a number of fans are morally conflicted about it. More than one sport can have a moral crisis built into it, and we don't have to talk about each one to have this discussion about boxing. Even then, accidents in racing are just that: accidents. Few boxers truly intend for their opponent to die, but they are intentionally doing things to hurt each other. Racing could exist without crashes, boxing can't exist without people punching each other in the head as hard as possible. Another thing that's kind of hosed up about boxing is that it's always people hurting each other. In various other adrenaline spots people take insane risks and sometimes pay the price, but not because one other person specifically incapacitated them.
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Jul 27, 2019 05:14
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:presumably most of us are against the idea of sweatshops also Yeah what im saying is that when someone dies working in a factory its a tragedy, and when someone dies playing a sport i wanna know what sort of haircut they had before i make any judgements
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Jul 27, 2019 05:19
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People seem to be getting confused between relative and absolute numbers of people dying. Yes more people die cave diving but there's probably more people in the caves of Florida in one weekend then there are pro boxing matches in a year.
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Jul 27, 2019 12:36
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Also saying “well only x amount of people died compared to this other activity” is kind of lovely. The goal should be zero, and comparing it to other activities implies it’s okay that one person died since 10 people died skydiving last year.
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Jul 27, 2019 12:58
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Also dying on the job != Dying doing a dangerous hobby.
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Jul 27, 2019 13:49
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"Ban boxing"...yes lets just make all these guys have to fight in Tijuana if they're American, or Malta/Hungary if they're British, with few regulations, poo poo doctors, no emergency staff, no medical suspensions. It'll work out as well as prohibition. Impressive win by Ramirez, who I've never previously been convinced by, against Hooker. Still think he's a level below Prograis and Taylor but those would be competitive fights.
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Jul 28, 2019 13:51
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Also with respect to racing as one of the few sports more deadly than boxing, I think it's a fair comparison point and I'm although I'm not a fan of racing I wouldn't be too surprised if a number of fans are morally conflicted about it. More than one sport can have a moral crisis built into it, and we don't have to talk about each one to have this discussion about boxing. You can reduce all human activity to this brutality if you want. Driving cars is literally killing the planet. Boxing is explicit about doing harm to the other man, it's very simple, which is why it's easy to oppose. I understand why someone would. There are 7 billion people and human life has a very low price in most of the places boxers come from. As long as people are struggling to get up and over each other to survive, there'll be conflict. Boxing is the mano a mano fight packaged in an easy to watch (no rolling on the ground stuff, gloves to make sure it's not just a blood feast between blind men) sport. That's it. I like it. I grew up doing it, like lots of other people. We did it, we watch it, we like it. People will die, people who take it up as a profession know that they have a good chance of ending up brain damaged. I think boxing has gone in a good direction, aside from all the rigged fights and PEDs, fewer guys fight to the bushido code or the Mexican mentality, whatever you want to call just trying to beat the other man to oblivion while taking 1% less punishment. Things have gotten more scientific, in the boxing sense of the word, refs stop fights when a guy starts getting pummeled instead of after 10 rounds of him gamely staggering through it. If the revolution comes and they want to abolish all bad things, they can take boxing, until then I'll keep watching
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Jul 28, 2019 19:51
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Monday Bandele posted:"Ban boxing"...yes lets just make all these guys have to fight in Tijuana if they're American, or Malta/Hungary if they're British, with few regulations, poo poo doctors, no emergency staff, no medical suspensions. It'll work out as well as prohibition. Yeah nobody in here has actually said "ban boxing" Even if they did though, this would be a bad argument. Dejan Bimble posted:You can reduce all human activity to this brutality if you want. Driving cars is literally killing the planet. my dude
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Jul 28, 2019 20:02
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Yeah nobody in here has actually said "ban boxing" I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I just quoted you to join the conversation. My point is that it's rhetoric. Human life is precious to us, but we do things to degrade and destroy it all the time. This one is just explicit. I understand why people feel the way they do about it. And I understand my own point (if I didn't, that would be odd). That's all
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Jul 28, 2019 23:04
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I don't even disagree with most of what you said but "driving cars is brutality because it harms the planet" is an insane stretch
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Jul 29, 2019 00:22
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:But even with racing, it's not a steady decline into sponge brain, because the point of the sport is not repeated sub-to-fully-concussive blows to the brain and internal organs. That does happen more now that cars are safer and don't split a driver in half in a wreck, so that they can go back out there and sustain more wrecks and injuries. Junior quit in part because of all the concussions.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:32
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I mean, boxing has always been a brutal and potentially fatal sport. Not sure why you would watch if you have that much of a problem with it. The good news is that the sport has never been safer, compared to years past. Of course it still has a ways to go, but safety measures have been improved in various areas over the years.
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Jul 29, 2019 21:17
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https://twitter.com/MikeCoppinger/status/1155976219650736129
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Jul 30, 2019 00:27
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Anything to duck Anthony Yarde smdh
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Jul 30, 2019 00:37
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This behaviour is essentially what got Kubrat Pulev suspended, but there's no video and no charges, so I doubt it will disrupt his upcoming fight. It would be cool if Yarde knocked Kovalev cold though.
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Jul 30, 2019 03:03
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ugh. kovalev can gently caress off.
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Jul 30, 2019 09:50
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Marching Powder posted:ugh. kovalev can gently caress off.
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Jul 30, 2019 16:47
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From some of the twitter posts it sounds like Kovalev has been hitting the vodka pretty hard, and maybe that's why Canelo's camp was so intent on pursuing him for a big fight.
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Jul 30, 2019 16:47
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The Gypsy King stepping in to save Mexican Independence Day weekend. Maybe he can wear a sombrero before, during and after the fight https://twitter.com/MichaelBensonn/status/1157348486624530432?s=19
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Aug 2, 2019 20:48
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cool recap of all the violent championship victories of naoya inoue. dude is a straight killer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAOGK4aIStM
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Aug 4, 2019 00:44
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Otto Wallin is another Tom Schwarz level fight. Strictly Euro level, low KO ratio, never fought anybody in the top 50 or maybe even 100. He may be tougher than Schwarz was but he's still going to lose in lopsided fashion.
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Aug 5, 2019 23:56
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Undefeated seems to mean less at heavyweight, there's always a number of 20-0 guys floating around who just fight nobodies to preserve their record until they get called up for a payday.
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Aug 8, 2019 18:35
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https://twitter.com/MichaelBensonn/status/1159872363716067333?s=19 https://twitter.com/DAZN_USA/status/1159872130353442819?s=19 Truly the Mecca of boxing 
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Aug 9, 2019 18:12
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Really eager to see this, gonna try to wrangle a bunch of my training partners into seeing it at Buffalo Wildwings.
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Aug 9, 2019 18:30
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lol that Ruiz was able to make sure the fight didn't take place here in the UK
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Aug 9, 2019 19:08
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A backwards monarchy run by idiot failsons will still feel like a home match for Joshua though 
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Aug 9, 2019 19:11
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lol
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Aug 9, 2019 19:43
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I feel sorry for whoever's got to tell a crowd of rowdy Joshua fans that actually drinking isn't allowed in the building
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Aug 9, 2019 19:57
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A big heavyweight fight to take place in an obscure location because a dictator threw a lot of money at it? That's a first...
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Aug 9, 2019 21:45
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The Ninth Layer posted:In terms of amateur fighters who could make a splash in the pros, I've heard a fair bit of talk of a guy named Robeisy Ramirez, a Cuban two time Olympic gold medalist and the guy who beat Shakur Stevenson in the Olympics. He defected from Cuba to Mexico last year and signed with Top Rank this last May. He makes his pro debut on August 10th on the ESPN+ Frampton card. This post did not age well lol
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Aug 11, 2019 04:40
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