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Phigs
Jan 23, 2019

mutata posted:

deleted stuff

I'll add that the Ooblets team's original announcement made me write off their game entirely. This is the only time I have or will ever bother to comment on it so I'm definitely not doing it to pile on hatred. If not for this exact discussion here I'd have just quietly decided not to buy their game and nobody would ever know about the potential lost sale. I've also never followed or bought a Bioware game since Mass Effect 3, not because I wasn't happy with the ending (I didn't like it but whatever, bad endings happen), but because I hated the response to the hate the ending received. I haven't said anything about that in the 7 years since it happened either. There's a number of games, studios, and publishers I've just quietly written off over this stuff over the years because it's really off-putting. Maybe I'm the only one but I suspect there's other people who care about how companies communicate but just watch quietly from the sidelines as these things play out. Imagining that the only people who will notice your passive-aggressive tirade are fellow devs on your side or bad faith actors is probably not a good idea.

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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
I just want to reiterate three things here before I drop this:

1. The successful examples you have are two white men who (at present) have large, established backings and reputations. That's a factor we gotta keep in mind.

2. I definitely appreciate the value of rhetorics of authenticity; again, it's my background to do similar work in a different setting. In your example of the Anthem interview, a part of discussing the "authenticity" constraint is "Everyone in this is dressed way to nicely and it just immediately alienates potential interested gamers right out of the gate". Like, think about that in context for a second. Don't dress that way, too nicely, or you might alienate the gamers...and they may send you death threats. Don't use jargon, make sure they can relate to you. Don't just professionally edited content, that seems artificial. You literally have to "win points with the community" starting from a deficit, maintain a facade of direct social engagement, and never, ever fail to meet the expectations of your audience. If at any point you show too much vulnerability, too much professionalism, too much inauthenticity, you have to worry that incredibly damaged people will target you, individually, for the rest of your career.

That is hosed. Other industries, with other consumer bases (including other entertainment fields), do not have to deal with this. It is an intensely unnatural PR situation, even compared with PR in other fields, to be forever engaged in a direct, highly social communications strategy partly motivated by fear. This is the product of a unique and terrible confluence of social and market forces in videogames that we've discussed around here before. I know, you can't address it individually without reaping the same response, you have to do what you can to protect yourself, but I want y'all to understand that looking in from outside, it is really weird to see how normalized this abuse has become.

3. All the above doesn't really matter that much. We like to think that comms training helps because it gives us a sense of control over how audiences respond, and given what's at stake, it can be very tempting to overinterpret the efficacy of communications training. The reality is that companies who have perfect PR, who have staff occupying privileged societal positions, who have plenty of funds, can still do something that "gamers" may not like (including people who would never interact with their product elsewhere), and just get destroyed. The biggest determinant of avoiding a mob is luck, followed by pure monetary power, followed by privilege.

I'm glad to see that a broader discussion of this pattern is kinda, sorta, happening. Just, uh, don't read the comments.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Aug 7, 2019

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation

Kanine posted:

Does anybody feel like there's a massive divide between the average gamer and game developers. Like it doesn't make sense to me, game development is more accessible now than ever (you can see this with the explosion of indie releases.) But It seems like the average person I see posting in SA/reddit/twitter (outside very specific spheres) seems to have a really weird and inaccurate views of game development and the realities of it?

Had a bit of sleep and thought a bit more about this. I think there's something here to talk about. It's worth remembering that video gaming wasn't always the multi-billion dollar industry, enjoyed by about as many people worldwide, that it is today. It used to be individual programmers making games in their spare time, at college or while working other jobs, and often publishing them under their real names rather than (or in addition to) a company name. So from the very beginning, there was this sense that computer games were personal on some level, and making money was perceived as secondary by the buying public (whether or not it actually was to the developer). Even as companies got larger and took on more ambitious projects, there was always an undercurrent of individuals or very small teams making what we'd call "indie" games today. The key here is that video game development has a history rooted firmly in people truly passionate about what they were doing, because there wasn't enough money in it for people who weren't passionate to bother getting into it.

But, really, passion and profit are not and never have been mutually exclusive. Frankly, why should they be? I'm of the general opinion that at the very least, the quality of a work is improved by the creators being personally motivated to make it more than just MVP. Passionate individuals should be rewarded for it, if we want more products of the same caliber. But... there's also this pernicious trend that's been going on for way longer than video games have been a thing, where it's uncouth to think about money, or to want money. It's too capitalist, to people who have no idea what that word means. I think the clearest example of this is in music, where rock stars have a long history of being lambasted for "selling out", or music being dismissed because it's "too commercial", or too "pop", or not "underground" enough.

There is a segment of people out there who seem to believe quite firmly that financial motives of any sort are always pernicious and are always an excuse to dismiss someone. So what happens when these people attach themselves to an independent game developer, thinking they're all about the passion and not about the money, and this view then collides with the stark reality that, goddamnit, we all have to eat and we all want to get paid and it's gut-wrenching to be on the side who has to risk everything to make a game not knowing if it's going to recoup any money? You get poo poo like this. Like EGS. The developers of Ooblets are 100% financially motivated in making this particular decision, and that shouldn't be thought of as strange at all, to be perfectly frank. But to this segment of people, it represents some kind of betrayal of a perceived core value, and it infuriates them and makes them feel justified in levying all sorts of harassments and threats against the developers.

The late TotalBiscuit used to talk about how harmful parasocial interactions can be, and how they apply to video games content creators and developers just as much as they do rock stars and television personalities. In short, people grow attached on a pseudo-personal level to people they've never really interacted with and who have no idea that they exist. I think he was right on the money, and I think the attacks we're seeing on developers today are an outgrowth of that tendency and our inability to curtail it - or, as the case may be, unwillingness to curtail it.

MJBuddy
Sep 22, 2008

Now I do not know whether I was then a head coach dreaming I was a Saints fan, or whether I am now a Saints fan, dreaming I am a head coach.
So at what point do we layer into the discussion that these aren't organic mobs at all, and they're largely driven by outrage and hate based YouTubers farming an algorithm?

Virtually every vitriolic response you can find on Twitter can be tracked back to a user sharing videos of the exact position they're representing from one of a dozen or so of those folks. This most recent EGS event is part of an almost year long campaign of this exact thing, and videos that use the actual language "Epic Games Store Must Be Stopped" is a bit troubling.

It's not "don't buy their stuff" or "This is a bad idea." It's a direct call to action, and people will repeat the content in those videos without an ounce of fact checking or pushback and cite screencaps of those videos in arguments. For large swathes of gamers, this is the only way they get their news and it's a distorted fox news gaming reality.

Calling mild inconveniences "anti-consumer" isn't some incredible parallel thinking. It was an approach that content creators used to point out a new outrageous slight every week and present themselves as the bastions against corporate exploitation. And when the stakes are that high, it's justified to behave in these putrid ways towards, you know, folks who do their job.

Last week a level designer at MachineGames was harassed until he closed his Twitter account because he posted that he was proud of the work he and his team did on Youngblood. He was harassed because Jim Sterling made a video that misrepresented what was in the MTX store to produce a talking point about the game. When people said it wasn't okay to harass a level designer, those who did justified it by saying he publicly had in his Twitter bio that he worked at that company so he was fair game.

This is hosed up

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
honestly "anti-consumer" has really rapidly become the new "ethics in gaming journalism"

just follow some of the threads in SA going on right now about this and compare them with archived threads from when gamergate was new and happening

Kanine fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Aug 7, 2019

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

MJBuddy posted:

So at what point do we layer into the discussion that these aren't organic mobs at all, and they're largely driven by outrage and hate based YouTubers farming an algorithm?

Virtually every vitriolic response you can find on Twitter can be tracked back to a user sharing videos of the exact position they're representing from one of a dozen or so of those folks. This most recent EGS event is part of an almost year long campaign of this exact thing, and videos that use the actual language "Epic Games Store Must Be Stopped" is a bit troubling.

It's not "don't buy their stuff" or "This is a bad idea." It's a direct call to action, and people will repeat the content in those videos without an ounce of fact checking or pushback and cite screencaps of those videos in arguments. For large swathes of gamers, this is the only way they get their news and it's a distorted fox news gaming reality.

Calling mild inconveniences "anti-consumer" isn't some incredible parallel thinking. It was an approach that content creators used to point out a new outrageous slight every week and present themselves as the bastions against corporate exploitation. And when the stakes are that high, it's justified to behave in these putrid ways towards, you know, folks who do their job.

Last week a level designer at MachineGames was harassed until he closed his Twitter account because he posted that he was proud of the work he and his team did on Youngblood. He was harassed because Jim Sterling made a video that misrepresented what was in the MTX store to produce a talking point about the game. When people said it wasn't okay to harass a level designer, those who did justified it by saying he publicly had in his Twitter bio that he worked at that company so he was fair game.

This is hosed up

this is such a great example of the contradiction between someone calling themselves "pro-consumer" and then staunchly supporting capitalism. like i really think it's not a coincidence that a lot of these arguments are tapping into the genuine alienation that so many people feel under capitalism, and directing them towards an easy scapegoat instead of suggesting actual systemic changes

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
https://www.polygon.com/2019/8/7/20758360/team-yell-pokemon-sword-and-shield-nintendo-switch-influencer

lmao this is perfect timing

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Stick100 posted:

They didn't spy, they grabbed a file in preparation for you to be able to add the users to your friends' list. Yes, they should have waited until the user asked but they didn't do anything with it. These mistakes happen all the time if you think poo poo like this isn't happening in every single piece of software/service you use you're wrong. The only reason we know/care is because people wanted to dislike something about the EGS.

For me, and I suspect for other people to, the causality was reversed: We saw EGS getting caught, and started disliking them for this dumb bullshit.

And I'm pretty sure if other services get caught with this kind of thing in the future, they'll face backlash, too. It's not about EGS especially, just that they happen to be the first who got caught.

Jan
Feb 27, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

Libluini posted:

For me, and I suspect for other people to, the causality was reversed: We saw EGS getting caught, and started disliking them for this dumb bullshit.

And I'm pretty sure if other services get caught with this kind of thing in the future, they'll face backlash, too. It's not about EGS especially, just that they happen to be the first who got caught.

Really? Because to me, it appears you dislike the very idea of EGS and choose to pick apart everything that they do in a negative light, ignoring evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint. Everything about your "contributions" to this thread so far indicate this:

Libluini posted:

Accidental spying is still spying.

Also, :lol: of course it's the customers fault for not listening to multiple technical explanations as to why spying isn't spying

As a matter of fact, yes, it's the customer's fault! But this is not the EGS customer hate bandwagon thread, it's the Ask a Game Dev thread. Which is why devs have been saying that mistakes happen, implementations change, and this is not unique to game development by any means.

Libluini posted:

To be more clear, if people react emotionally to this, coming at them with pure logic will just make you look like you're defending Epic.

It looks like I'm defending Epic because that's precisely what I'm doing. Do I think the EGS as it is is a perfect implementation? No, it's not. But just like any game or online game storefront, it can be improved. Improvement comes from constructive discussions and valid criticism, not from latching on a single non-issue and then dismissing absolutely everything else as a result, which is pretty much what you admitted to doing.

Libluini posted:

This situation is like someone catching their neighbor in their apartment after he accidentally fell through the window, and then suddenly Defendor, Lord of Logic breaks through their wall to explain to them that calling the police isn't necessary.

If you're going to deal in lovely metaphors, at least use one that's appropriate to the situation. "Falling through the window" is home invasion, which is hardly on the same level as caching a friends list file and then doing nothing with it.

If you have valid observations or questions to bring up, do share. Otherwise, the hate bandwagon thread is that a way.

e: Hell, even with valid observations and questions, I don't think any of us work at Epic in this thread, let alone on EGS specifically, so not much we can do besides shake our heads and just be glad we're not the ones on the receiving end of the gamer hate mob (this time). I had my fill of that with We Happy Few getting published by Gearbox.

Jan fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 7, 2019

ryde
Sep 9, 2011

God I love young girls

Kanine posted:

honestly "anti-consumer" has really rapidly become the new "ethics in gaming journalism"

It's really annoying that "anti-consumer" is treated as a binary by the zeitgeist. Is it "anti-consumer" that Epic removes choices by buying exclusivity? Yes, kinda. Is it worse than, say, Valve specifically fighting against regulations to avoid having to offer refunds? No, not at all. From a range of "Not an issue at all" to "Equivalent to Comcast", it ranks at about "This is mildly inconvenient".

Frankly, the elephant in the room is that moving games to digital distribution has caused some really serious issues concerning ownership of your games. The distribution method itself is pretty anti-consumer in that regard. If Valve turns off the servers, we better hope they're gracious enough to offer unlock keys for your purchased games. I'm guessing that it won't be at the top of their list of priorities if that happens.

ryde fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 7, 2019

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



Jan posted:

It looks like I'm defending Epic because that's precisely what I'm doing.

Never defend any company, ever, imo :d2a:

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
The 18-month fence hop, the six-day chair, and why video games are so hard to make
great article from polygon

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!

mutata posted:

(A) Clearly explaining why they're making the deal, including the financial reasons, survival reasons, "the end result will be a better game than without this funding", etc. Basically telling the truth.
Problem with this is that it's near impossible to change anyone's mind once they're convinced that EGS is bad and the extra money is just going into the yacht fund. It's hard to actually demonstrate that the money is making the game better, and going into more detail is just going to invite more armchair expertise and disbelief that things cost as much as they do.

If the root problem is doubt over how much the company cares about its customers, then the only answer anyone's going to accept there is "here's all the stuff we're going to do to show how much we love our customers," so may as well just skip straight to that, do a good job of making and maintaining the game, and let that do the talking. Get the conversation away from business/financial/store stuff that really has very little direct effect on the player experience anyway unless there's some bundle/bonus deal or a sale.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Yeah, there's for sure multiple angles to take, but none of them are really meant to change anyone's mind, especially those who are already ready to rage. Whatever statement you make should be straightforward and provide you a statement to point to and say "Here's the reason, we have no further comment."

Or better yet, make the statement and then just move on to posting about the game again.

mutata fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Aug 8, 2019

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Jan posted:

Really? Because to me, it appears you dislike the very idea of EGS and choose to pick apart everything that they do in a negative light, ignoring evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint. Everything about your "contributions" to this thread so far indicate this:

You imagine a lot of effort on my part that just isn't there. But technically, you're right, I despise poo poo like EGS, but since Steam and stuff are sometimes really convenient I still use them. Every additional weird game shop/launcher thing I encounter has a growing uphill battle ahead of it, and EGS just had the bad luck to arrive at the point where I'm already rather not play a game then install that poo poo.

Also my contributions are like 2-3 mostly short posts on the matter, so there's not much "picking apart everything" and :lol: at the idea that I have to sift hours of evidence before I'm allowed to make a couple sarcastic remarks.

But the posts you've been hallucinating instead of mine do sound interesting, I wish I had actually done all that poo poo you're accusing me of.


quote:

As a matter of fact, yes, it's the customer's fault! But this is not the EGS customer hate bandwagon thread, it's the Ask a Game Dev thread. Which is why devs have been saying that mistakes happen, implementations change, and this is not unique to game development by any means.

I know most gamers are insane, but if it is your idea that every customer has to do a couple hours of IT research or it's their fault if a program is doing something suspicious, then I don't think that will turn out to be a defensible position. Except from the view point of "Let's beat insanity with insanity!"


quote:

It looks like I'm defending Epic because that's precisely what I'm doing. Do I think the EGS as it is is a perfect implementation? No, it's not. But just like any game or online game storefront, it can be improved. Improvement comes from constructive discussions and valid criticism, not from latching on a single non-issue and then dismissing absolutely everything else as a result, which is pretty much what you admitted to doing.

I'm slowly getting the feeling you confuse me with someone else, or why do you continue to conjure up some kind of mad strawman angrily punching his keyboard? How do you even get so far up your own rear end in response to someone going "What EGS did was bad"? Do you think I'm secretly plotting Epic's demise with my magic internet desintegration powers?

quote:

If you're going to deal in lovely metaphors, at least use one that's appropriate to the situation. "Falling through the window" is home invasion, which is hardly on the same level as caching a friends list file and then doing nothing with it.

If you have valid observations or questions to bring up, do share. Otherwise, the hate bandwagon thread is that a way.

This is so tone deaf I don't even know how to respond to this. You do remember this thread is still part of a comedy forum, right?

Guys, here's someone who reads the words "Defendor, Lord of Logic" and somehow concludes I am not only 100% serious, but also 100% literal with my lovely metaphor. :confused:

To explain this to you in tiny, easily understandable words: If I had used a more "appropriate" metaphor, I couldn't have had a comic book hero breaking through a wall to give a dumb lecture to two random people, so I had to kind of reach around mentally and the accidental home invasion was the best my dumb brain could come up with. Also, just in case, I did this because I found this to be really funny, not because I was seriously believing the problem in question is on the same level from a pure legal standpoint, you giant shithead.


quote:

e: Hell, even with valid observations and questions, I don't think any of us work at Epic in this thread, let alone on EGS specifically, so not much we can do besides shake our heads and just be glad we're not the ones on the receiving end of the gamer hate mob (this time). I had my fill of that with We Happy Few getting published by Gearbox.

And I had my fill from your condescending tone, so I'll set you to ignore, oh great defender of capitalism

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Sounds like it's time to move on from this particular topic.

Regardless of what's been discussed, though, the Rage Culture Mouthbreathers are out of order and need to shut the gently caress up. No team of devs deserve death threats or disgusting harassment for any reason.

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
Honestly the fundamental thing that makes me angry about the Ooblets debacle is like, when people are getting literally thousands of death threats that should be the focus of your empathy. Full stop.

If you go "well bloohoo they were rude boohoo" you're really just trying to rationalize.

This is more directed at the egs/steam threads, but I know at least here people will listen to me instead of just being lovely and acting in bad faith.

MJBuddy
Sep 22, 2008

Now I do not know whether I was then a head coach dreaming I was a Saints fan, or whether I am now a Saints fan, dreaming I am a head coach.

Studio posted:

Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

Frequently.

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
But honestly whatever. I'm sure not long from now after Ooblets is out of the headlines another dev/journalist will get the target painted on their back for for something trivial and the hatemob will try to ruin their lives too. People will blame them for it because the internet has no memory and we live in a hellworld.

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Studio posted:

Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

I remember the Facepunch forums had a ton of stolen SA icons (that forum really was just an SA clone wasn't it)

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Kanine posted:

I remember the Facepunch forums had a ton of stolen SA icons (that forum really was just an SA clone wasn't it)

Their emojis menu had a "we stole these from SA" section.

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Discendo Vox posted:

Their emojis menu had a "we stole these from SA" section.

jokes on them i guess since they've shut down lmao

Piekuuns
May 15, 2009

Studio posted:

Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

Guilty as charged. I would do it even more often if Slack didn't have stupid rectangle dimensions requirements for emojis.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Piekuuns posted:

Guilty as charged. I would do it even more often if Slack didn't have stupid rectangle dimensions requirements for emojis.

I had a macro for hipchat that would run it through an image converter and upload it automagically.

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



Piekuuns posted:

Guilty as charged. I would do it even more often if Slack didn't have stupid rectangle dimensions requirements for emojis.

It turns out :hmmyes: is the perfect emoji

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation

Studio posted:

Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

100% sure, because it's always me uploading them.

Big K of Justice
Nov 27, 2005

Anyone seen my ball joints?

Studio posted:

Important question for other goon Game Devs:
How often do you find SA emojis on Slack, and wonder if the person that uploaded them is a goon???

Been the case when I worked at Riot and a few other places.. :v:

Studio posted:

It turns out :hmmyes: is the perfect emoji

For that reason, I uploaded that one to my slack at my current job, it's one of the most used now during reviews, live streams and such.

Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Aug 10, 2019

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
https://twitter.com/CarmenSinek/status/1160588706832457728

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
I have a question about GWU, has anyone working in game dev had management make official (or unofficial) anti-union statements because of the news lately? It seems that as the movement for organizing the industry gains traction, we're going to start seeing more and more pushback from the powers that be.

DreadCthulhu
Sep 17, 2008

What the fuck is up, Denny's?!
Are there certain game review sites that devs gravitate to more than others, as industry insiders? Do you feel some of them are a more fair evaluation of the work?

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

DreadCthulhu posted:

Are there certain game review sites that devs gravitate to more than others, as industry insiders? Do you feel some of them are a more fair evaluation of the work?

My personal thoughts: Independent reviewers seem to do a better job since they aren't in a position where they can overtly burn bridges with publishers/developers if they say something mean. For the same reason, I actually am inclined to take comedy reviewers a lot more seriously than something mainstream. Gamespot, IGN, etc. are pretty awful - I unironically take Dunkey / Jim Sterling / Yahtzee more seriously as a reviewer than I do the mainstream reviewers.

I think I could talk a lot about this, but when I to hear a review, I generally want to find someone who specializes in the genre they are reviewing. Joseph Anderson does a really good job of looking deeply into systems. Boomstick does a good job of expressing thoughts on the 'feel' of a game without getting into deep analysis of any particular piece. Jim Sterling, like him or not, does a nice job of offering an 'idealist' perspective which has value. These folks have a definite style and their own standards and expectations and it at least provides a consistent perspective, which I feel is significantly more value than the soulless reviews pumped out by Gamespot and their ilk.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Aug 12, 2019

Chunderstorm
May 9, 2010


legs crossed like a buddhist
smokin' buddha
angry tuna

Austin is basically the closest thing. It's a reasonable hub, North Austin is not terribly expensive, etc. Some devs can even afford houses, and given that driving everywhere is basically mandatory here, some people buy houses up in Round Rock for even cheaper and just commute in. Roughly the same distance from downtown to North Austin.

Per your other question, no, but some friends have had e-mails sent that were 'gentle reminders' that the studios offer X, Y, Z benefits and have the interests of their employees in mind (hah). Obviously not going to mention which studios.

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



If there's any CEOs reading this, have you heard how affordable and great Minneapolis is?

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

Move all your studios to Europe where we have non-insane healthcare systems and social safety nets for when the studio does layoffs, thanks in advance.

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



floofyscorp posted:

Move all your studios to Europe where we have non-insane healthcare systems and social safety nets for when the studio does layoffs, thanks in advance.

Counterpoint: Minnesota has a shitload of lakes

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

I've been working remote for the past couple years and guess what: It's very possible and work gets done just fine!

Jan
Feb 27, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

Look at this person's LA privilege. I'm stuck in the Bay Area and I'd kill for "large game studios", plural. :colbert:

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



Jan posted:

Look at this person's LA privilege. I'm stuck in the Bay Area and I'd kill for "large game studios", plural. :colbert:

They're there, you just have to enter Mobile Games

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Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Studio posted:

Counterpoint: Minnesota has a shitload of lakes

Also, Winter.

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