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re: Winch talk - I'm trying to decide if and when I'll use a winch, and if so, which vehicle I should put it on. I guess the easy answer is both, but tbqh I'm not interested in going and doing rock crawling in the Raptor, the LC is already pretty big but better suited for it. Probably just need to get an insurance estimate done on the front end of the LC and put a steel bumper on and throw a winch on it and call it good. re: recovery gear chat above, I'm in the process of replacing the gear I lost in our fire. Below is most of what I have accumulated so far:  The Viair 440p replaces the faithful 300p I had (good for airing up after trails, and convenient for virtually all other airing-up activities like kids bikes etc.) The Warn kit-in-a-backpack seems to be pretty nice stuff. It has a snatch block (yes I know, not much good to me right now), a tree saver, a 3"x30' recovery strap, a pair of shackles, some gloves, and maybe some other stuff. Expensive, but whatever, insurance dollars are replacing this. I supplemented that with 4 more shackles rated at 5.5T, the even-bigger 4"x30' tow strap, and then sort of in the picture are a pair of ARB's new Maxtrax competitors. Aside from the recovery boards, the compressor and the Warn backpack and bigass strap all fit underneath the rear seat of the Raptor. Convenient! In the boxes up in the top right of the pic is a full set of bash plates for the Land Cruiser. Combination of steel and aluminum... Since I'm not going anywhere this year, may as well get the truck ready for adventuring next year. I had ordered those long before the fire and they just came recently. Not like they go bad, I can take my time getting them under the LC. I mostly keep this stuff around for pulling people out of ditches in the winter and for pulling out stuff like fence posts and small trees, but as I also had ambitions of running trails this summer, may as well get it now before I forget about having had it in the first place. Tremek fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 16:26
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Its that an 18 TONNE snatch strap? or is it a legit towing strap? When I had to go through my last round of 4wd training re certification through work we went through snatch strap use and all of that. Had two different straps- an 8 tonne strap, and a 15 tonne strap we'd pinched off one of the 15 tonne MAN trucks. There is such a thing as having too big a rating when your talking bout kinetic recovery- so thats anything from a snatch strap to a kinetic rope. If your strap is too high rated, you dont get the stretch out of them which is where the power of your recovery comes from. We bogged a 70 series landcruiser down to the diffs deliberately in sand and then hauled it out with another 70 series- These cruisers weigh in at around 3700kg fully loaded up with all the fire gear on them, so your talking 7.4 tonnes. Using the 8 tonne strap, it stretched out and popped the bogged truck out nice and gently. Trying it with the 15 tonne strap was like we had hooked up a length of drag chain, there was ZERO stretch in it and it relied on the sheer inertia of the tow vehicle and launched the bogged truck out of the hole. Was pretty violent on both vehicles and both drivers too.
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Aug 6, 2019 01:33
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I don't know how popular / common / well-recommended dynamic straps are in North America. I never did any real off-roading in Canada (work trucks on peat bogs notwithstanding) but here in Australia I took the 4WD course offered by NSW DPI because the motor pool at the university subsidises it by letting us hire the uni-owned 4WDs for free for the 2-day course. We practiced with stretchy straps - like you said, deliberately bog one vehicle in some nice deep sand and use (one of) the others to yank it out. Ours were Isuzus, a D-MAX and a pair of MU-X, and everybody in the course got to play in the driver's seat of both the bogged and de-bogging vehicles. I once saw a video about 4WD in North America in which they heavily emphasised that static straps are NEVER to be used with a running start. I don't remember the video that well, but I think they basically said stretch straps are inherently more dangerous and should be avoided. Here in Aus, the attitude seems more like "don't worry mate! she'll be right!" and you get on with it. The whole "hold my beer / ow my balls" genre of 4WD videos is very similar, though.
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Aug 6, 2019 04:32
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Well how fast are you going when you snatch? Probably anything over 10-15 mph in a 5000lb truck is going to snap the strap. I'm not accounting for stretch or if the stuck vehicle moves, which would probably give you some more space.
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Aug 6, 2019 04:52
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ExecuDork posted:I don't know how popular / common / well-recommended dynamic straps are in North America. I never did any real off-roading in Canada (work trucks on peat bogs notwithstanding) but here in Australia I took the 4WD course offered by NSW DPI because the motor pool at the university subsidises it by letting us hire the uni-owned 4WDs for free for the 2-day course. We practiced with stretchy straps - like you said, deliberately bog one vehicle in some nice deep sand and use (one of) the others to yank it out. Ours were Isuzus, a D-MAX and a pair of MU-X, and everybody in the course got to play in the driver's seat of both the bogged and de-bogging vehicles. That bit about static straps not being used with running starts is absolutely correct - you do NOT want to use them with any kind of running start. I don't think it's correct that they're inherently more dangerous - I think, if anything, they may have a reputation because people ignore things like "don't get a running start" (I've had people I was pulling out tell me the reason we hadn't gotten them out yet was because I needed to just get a running start) and they will predictably break when shockloaded. A lot of people and a lot of rigs can't recover without running starts, soooooo ... Anyway, they're good for different things. If you're crawling on treacherous rocks, you don't want big unplanned movements, which is a likely outcome with a dynamic strap. If you're in sand/mud with a pretty clear path, dynamic straps allow more effort to be exerted on the stuck vehicle, so they make sense. While I'm sure both exist in both places (I've done both here), it seems like there's definitely a preference for the sand and mud type stuff in Aussie.
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Aug 6, 2019 05:04
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Ferremit posted:Its that an 18 TONNE snatch strap? or is it a legit towing strap? Idk, their specs lean more toward towing by my read? https://www.gearamerica.net/collect...-rated-capacity
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Aug 6, 2019 06:09
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Essentially if you think of a static strap as a length of chain made of nylon and treat them as such, you'll be fine. The biggest mistake people make with recoveries is getting stuck in with the goon spoon first and do some digging. Dig some of the poo poo out of the way before you even attempt to move the vehicle. Or stack rocks or whatever you need to do to make things easier. Also rated recovery points. A tow ball is NOT a rated recovery point. Tow Balls Kill people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFD4Fd03bq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjorZuxeRIg Also- Winch cables too. They're not your friend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97XqNX3yFTk
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Aug 6, 2019 08:09
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Tremek posted:Idk, their specs lean more toward towing by my read? https://www.gearamerica.net/collect...-rated-capacity Yeah thats very, very definately a static strap, not a dynamic strap.
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Aug 6, 2019 08:10
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Ferremit posted:Essentially if you think of a static strap as a length of chain made of nylon and treat them as such, you'll be fine. Brb, buying a damper or two.
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Aug 6, 2019 19:54
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Maybe it's just the shows I watch on youtube but it looks like you blokes over in Canada South don't seem to run bullbars the way most of us do, the ones I generally see are like little steel bumpers instead of some great big cunting thing. Come to think of it I'm not sure I've seen any aftermarket recovery points chucked on either. Do your fourbies or jeeps come from the factory with proper recovery points?
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Aug 7, 2019 01:31
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I think it depends a lot on the wildlife. If you hit a moose, your standard ARB bullbar isnt going to do diddly poo poo, cos all you'll do is knock the big bastards legs out from under it and slide it up your bonnet into your windscreen and face. Vs loving kangaroos and Emu's. Suicidal bastards. Its a lot harder to make up a loop setup that looks good in your home shop too, vs just cutting and welding flat plate to make a bumper up. Pretty much no vehicle manufacturer makes a vehicle with a rated recovery point on it, because they arent willing to accept the liability if someone does something stupid and rips the thing off and kills someone. My 100 series came factory with two huge forged hooks front and rear, but the owners manual specifically refers to them as "tie down points" and not recovery points.  Thats the rear one. That massive laminated steel loop is part of the ARB rear bar/towbar assembly and IS refered too as a recovery point by ARB, but they also do recommend using an equalizer strap between both sides.  And the front. The steel loop behind it is DEFINITELY not a recovery point- Thats 100% for tying the thing down for transport
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Aug 7, 2019 01:46
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Ferremit posted:I think it depends a lot on the wildlife. If you hit a moose, your standard ARB bullbar isnt going to do diddly poo poo, cos all you'll do is knock the big bastards legs out from under it and slide it up your bonnet into your windscreen and face. Yeah I get the wildlife is a bit different. I did see a pic of a 79 with a big fuckoff post bullbar that hit a wild horse on the Bruce Highway, there wasn't much left of the bullbar or the front end after that. We're not allowed to make our own bars much either for anything made in the last decade, anything for an airbag-equipped vehicle needs to be certified as not affecting the airbags. Same issue with liability too, my ute's got 14mm steel loops through the chassis rails at the front, with a nut behind the rail and welded in on both sides. She's not going anywhere without a fair bit of effort especially with the equalising strap. But Toyota make it quite clear they're only tie down points and not to be used by anyone for anything ever. Although one of the fancy pants models comes with rated points from the factory front and rear.
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Aug 7, 2019 01:56
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Those big gently caress off 5 poster bullbars are purely for wank factor really. I was chatting to a bloke at Dalhousie springs who hit a cow at 100kph in his prado in the Northern Territory with an ARB steel bar on it and it absolutely wrote the front end of the car off- Bar was destroyed, bonnet was gone, bent the poo poo out of everything- it ended up with chassis damage and being a write off. BUT it protected the radiator and intercooler so the vehicle was still driveable, so he set up camp for the night and was able to get back to civilization- 300km away, with it, so the bar very much did its job and stopped him and his family being stuck 300km out in the scrub for god knows how long.
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Aug 7, 2019 05:02
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Do tow/snatch straps have a shelf life? I've had mine maybe five years now and only used then a handful of times. Should they be on a timed replacement schedule?
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Aug 7, 2019 05:09
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If they're stored clean and away from UV, not really. UV fucks em up and so does wear. If its only been used a handful of times and theres no damage and it hasnt been sitting out in the sun for months then it should be fine. We've thrown away straps at work that had never been used but they had been rattling around in a toolbox and were covered in dirt, oil and had big abrasion damage in em, but we've also got 10+ yr old ones that are perfectly good still. They do have a finite number of recoveries in them tho, especially big hard ones. The guys at ARB told me to measure it when I got it and write the length on the tag sewn onto it (never onto the strap cos the solvents in the texta ink can damage the fibres) and then after a big hard recovery when you get home measure it. Once its grown in length by more than 10% at rest, cut the loops and chuck it cos its done.
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Aug 7, 2019 05:31
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Ferremit posted:If they're stored clean and away from UV, not really. UV fucks em up and so does wear. That's a good rule of thumb, I'll save that one. One thing I picked up from a class where everyone kind of mixed and matched their recovery gear is that I need to clearly label weight ratings on straps in big bold letters because the manufacturers sometimes like to hide that data on a tiny tag. Also it wouldn't hurt to put my initials on it, perhaps a fabric name tape type thing around the loop would do? My personal practice is to pull out, inspect, and clean any bit of gear that I used on a trip or was exposed to the elements. This habit was introduced to me in the Boy Scouts way back when and then again (with feeling) by the US Army so now it's second nature. A side benefit is that I tend to build in an extra day to vacations to account for this which makes returning to work less painful.
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Aug 7, 2019 12:50
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ili posted:Maybe it's just the shows I watch on youtube but it looks like you blokes over in Canada South don't seem to run bullbars the way most of us do, the ones I generally see are like little steel bumpers instead of some great big cunting thing. Come to think of it I'm not sure I've seen any aftermarket recovery points chucked on either. Do your fourbies or jeeps come from the factory with proper recovery points? Some models of Jeep hilariously don't even have a solid towing point on either end, but most cars have at least a hook the tow truck can grab to yank you out of the ditch. Anything foreign (Toyota/Land Rover/Nissan/etc. - even though many have factories stateside for import tariffs reasons) will have tie-down points for the trip across the ocean, but a lot of domestics somehow get away with some other method of securing them to the trailer. My little Ranger had an aftermarket... thing... I called the Wildlife Tenderizer attached to the frame at the front end. It had holes in it that made me think it was set up to mount a winch but I never got around to testing it. Had I ever hit a deer, I probably would have lost at least one headlight but maybe, like Ferremit's bloke, it would have protected the rad and I might have been able to limp it back to civilization. A moose would have landed on my lap regardless. The truck passed out-of-province inspection in Ontario (twice) and Quebec so I guess it was permissible.  SD 144 Topper and Ferry 6 by Martin Brummell, on Flickr Headlight Polishing 1 by Martin Brummell, on FlickrMostly it was a good place to zip-tie on the front plate and to wrap up the block heater cord. And it was a great tie-down for the canoe.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:00
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ExecuDork posted:Aussies love giant gently caress-off bullbars. Those rolling barricades bolted to the front of every Commodore ute? Absent from anything without air brakes in the frozen wastes of Soviet Canuckistan. It has less to do with real wildlife collision risks and everything to do with local culture. That, and laws. Aussies are permitted to attach all manner of aftermarket things to the outsides of their cars, Canadians get fines and told to cut the drat thing off for most exterior mods. My simple little commuter CR-V has a light bar that lights up the whole drat road plus everything out to 20 metres to the sides and overhead; we go nightspotting for koalas by just driving slowly down a tree-lined road with the high beams blasting. That kind of light setup is verbotten in Canada. That thing's kinda cool, like a comp style nudge bar. What are the modification laws like in Canada? It's interesting you say we're permissive in bullbars and so forth, looking at the states I see so much stuff they can do that we can't. You can go up to two inches on the wheels and/or suspension without approval but 3 inch lifts need an engineers signoff, so do body lifts to a maximum of 2 inches. It wouldn't matter if Jesus himself descended from heaven blowing a golden trumpet and proclaiming that 4 inch lifts and 37s were the one true path to heaven, you're never getting that through legally. Dunno what it's like in Canada though.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:12
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Ferremit posted:If they're stored clean and away from UV, not really. UV fucks em up and so does wear.
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Aug 9, 2019 03:05
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Some news on the us government surplus front: Iron/Gov Planet is going to start issuing full on-road vehicle titles for humvees along with the SF97. Up until recently, 99.9% of the HMMWV's sold there were shipped with a "FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY" SF97, which caused issues registering the vehicle in some states. A big Military Vehicle collector near Austin was using his contacts in the military and writing letters to various officials to figure out who decided that was required and why they can sell everything from 8x8 Hemmts to 5 and 7 ton trucks and LMTV's with on road titles but not humvees and couldn't get an answer to who decided that. So the government gave the all-clear to gov/iron planet to change the title situation. Apparently, there's going to be a process for anyone who previously purchased a HMMWV with the off-road only title a new SF-97 with no restrictions for $150. So unless you live in a no-fun allowed state, getting an HMMWV a license plate got a lot easier.
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Aug 9, 2019 03:38
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Big K of Justice posted:Some news on the us government surplus front: gently caress that's awesome. I'm guessing California is the no-fun allowed state and smog will be applied to these things unless they're 25years old? What's the average age of the HMMWVs they're selling do you think? AKA how many years until we can start bringing them in smog exempt from other states? I might be done working on my current military truck by then even.
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Aug 11, 2019 04:30
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California *WAS* sorta fine on HMMWV"s provided it was 1997 or earlier. No Smog required and you are good to go. 1998 you would need a OBD-II check and military vehicles don't have that port. The problem was the off-road-only SF-97's confused the poo poo out of everyone. Before Gov/Iron Planet came along, surplus hmmwv's were pretty rare but usually shipped with a standard SF-97, so generally, it wasn't a problem getting it plated in California. Then the flood came in 2013-2014 or so, and a lot of DMV's didn't know how to handle the off-road-only use stamp. Some ignored it.. others decided they couldn't title it for on-road use. It was dumb because no one could literally track down who decided HMMWV's got the stamp for that and no other military surplus vehicle did. I mean my friend literally picked up an Oshkosh 8x8 truck and drove it to his house in Manhattan Beach and never had any DMV issues with it.  Apparently, the California DMV clamped down on new HMMWV titles starting in 2017, but left old ones alone, this may change things, I don't know but for California, the safe bet is to find one already plated. It sucks because some dudes just buy them to flip. They're probably pissed at the change because you can cut the middle man out and get a roller/drivable project truck for reasonably cheap*.- The old trick was to get Vermont tags for your military vehicle. They allow non-residences to get plates, but it's a high fee, like $750 a year. On the upside, they'll issue a tag to anything with at least a wheel and a seat. You get your Vermont title and tags and then transfer that to whatever state you want. Some non-fun/non-mv states are: Hawaii, Oregon, California, Virginia, Michigan off the top of my head. *- "Cheap" Hmmwv's boned the accessories market, not an issue if you can fabricate your own stuff. But the prices on mundane poo poo like brushguards, doors, tire carriers, stuff like that.. non-factory accessories skyrocketed.
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Aug 11, 2019 06:04
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Now I just need to get out and get dirty.
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Aug 11, 2019 23:11
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chrisgt posted:Now I just need to get out and get dirty. Congrats but I suck at this game - what are those, new Duratracs?
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Aug 12, 2019 01:38
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chrisgt posted:Now I just need to get out and get dirty. Team New England Reformed Subaru Now Toyota Truck guys went hard this weekend. 100 series 4x4 Labs DIY rear bumper got burned in for my 100 Tacked rear bumper kit on the truck, no garnish plates or anything else. Looks like a diving board with how much it sticks out but I have the swing out tire kit so makes more since once that's on.  We tacked it on the truck and then pulled it off to weld.   "this is the longest continuous bead I've ever run"   Hope this place can autosize pics these days.
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Aug 12, 2019 02:55
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So the shop that damaged my H1's hood is suing their insurance company and told me to get an estimate to replace my hood and brush guard plus touch up paint/repaint labor/etc. The problem? I can't get a single body + paint shop in the Austin, Texas area to give me an estimate without an insurance claim/check/whatever first. Most of the shops refuse to work on it because it doesn't show up on their little paint and body database system, and the ones that do are like... "Uh let us know how much insurance money you get". In LA? There's like 3-4 shops off the top of my head that would quote over the phone [$400 a panel, etc] that would do the work. So I'm literally at the point where the shop is going to pay me to ship the truck to Los Angeles for parts paint and bodywork because they are the only place that would give me an official quote. Texas... sucks for offroading... sucks for paint and body shops too apparently. Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 14:14
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Slow is Fast posted:Team New England Reformed Subaru Now Toyota Truck guys went hard this weekend. That’s badass, nice work and your truck is awesome, you have had to put so much drat work into it that I hope you can go enjoy it before some dipshit runs into you. 
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Aug 16, 2019 15:28
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Tremek posted:That’s badass, nice work and your truck is awesome, you have had to put so much drat work into it that I hope you can go enjoy it before some dipshit runs into you. They'll have to hit it hard enough to get through the Slee sliders or the rear bumper. If they total it I'll take my check and get a 200. Got the wiring plan for toys sorted last night, rear cab rust done. Driver side rockers very close, need some touch up, grinding, paint. Pass side up next. After that is fuel system replacement (I'm replacing rusty lines and skid plate and other nonsense). Bumper on, lights are bolted on, various other poo poo.   
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Aug 18, 2019 01:57
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Man that is a bit of a park bench design isn’t it. I take it the lip is to support wheel carrier arms in the future? The ARB rear bar is right up there with one of the best looking designs for the back of the 100’s, but holy poo poo is it complicated to install and adjust and holy gently caress is it expensive! I think with the two wheels on the back of mine there’s north of $6K worth of carrier, arms, rims, tyres and lighting hanging out the back... and that’s at what a genuine rim cost second hand- toyota told me that the trade price for a rim over the counter at the parts desk was $1200 EACH for mine the other day... and I’ve got 6! Trucks really starting to look good!
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Aug 18, 2019 03:37
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Ferremit posted:Man that is a bit of a park bench design isn’t it. I take it the lip is to support wheel carrier arms in the future? Bingo. The naked bumper looks dorky with the diving board, but its designed for swing outs. I have to weld in the pin and weld together the swing out. Accessories are DIY or you buy. I have the driver side bolt on tire carrier. I'll probably DIY a ladder since I have a bunch of left over cage tubing and I have some roof totes and various other crackpot ideas. I went with the single swing out but here's a completed double: 
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Aug 18, 2019 04:38
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Rear bumpers are nuts. The production version of the Slee dual swingout on my 200 is like $6k USD installed (mine is preproduction and was significantly cheaper.) Any steel back there is better than factory plastic.
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Aug 18, 2019 04:41
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I'm not even kidding when I say that bumper costs are a big part of why I went with the TJ instead of continuing to build the WJ. I don't want to just yank the bumper skins and call it good, I don't have a welder, and if I did I wouldn't know how to use it. So that leaves me with the cheap-by-comparison $2k+ bumper options for an equivalent WJ. Even ignoring the money recouped by selling the WJ, it would have been cheaper to buy the TJ than to do bumpers and another lift to be able to run 33s on the WJ. TJ bumpers are available dirt loving cheap, though I got luckier still and bought one that already had aftermarket steel bumpers front and rear.
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Aug 18, 2019 05:35
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Yeah my buddy building a tj has dirt cheap options for cheaper than my DIY kit . But he had to put that money into axles so it is what it is
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Aug 18, 2019 15:14
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Yeah there's always something. I'm not putting any money into the axles I have, if something major breaks they're coming out for something stronger.
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Aug 18, 2019 15:17
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Tremek posted:Rear bumpers are nuts. The production version of the Slee dual swingout on my 200 is like $6k USD installed (mine is preproduction and was significantly cheaper.) A Big big big part of why the Kaymar and ARB bars are so hideously expensive is that your not only paying for a rear bumper with dual swing arms, your also paying for a 3500kg towbar that has to be tested and certified and that adds a chunk to the cost of manufacture. You can get other bars here that retain the existing toyota towbar that are closer to $2K for a rear bar, but they also dont look as good. I was lucky and picked up my rear bar used for $2500. If I had to buy it new tomorrow it would be $5230 in just a plain black powdercoat
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Aug 18, 2019 23:43
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Did a wheeling trip with dad to Grande Cache. I bought a 20' car hauler so that he could pull the machines down while I towed the travel trailer. Ecoboosts are thirsty when towing. I averaged 9mpg along the highway of idiots (hwy 40). Did 1 trip per day. The yellow machine is a Maverick powered by a 1000cc v-twin, and makes around 115hp. The dark grey is my new Wildcat xx and has a Yamaha inline 3 and makes around 140hp. They both have around 18" of wheel travel. Mine's on 32" tires and beadlock wheels. This second video is someone's footage they gave me of a ATV rally from last month I participated in. https://youtu.be/9lOj53JLRtQ https://youtu.be/z85NYxmLBDo
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Aug 19, 2019 05:56
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Ferremit posted:A Big big big part of why the Kaymar and ARB bars are so hideously expensive is that your not only paying for a rear bumper with dual swing arms, your also paying for a 3500kg towbar that has to be tested and certified and that adds a chunk to the cost of manufacture. You can get other bars here that retain the existing toyota towbar that are closer to $2K for a rear bar, but they also dont look as good. For sake of clarity - maybe this is a regional language thing - when you say towbar, are you saying the trailer hitch receiver on the frame of the LC is removed and replaced by one integral to the bumper, and the OEM receiver is not retained? When you write towbar I think this:  As you wrote on Slee's setup on my truck, the OEM trailer hitch receiver is retained behind the new Slee steel. 
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Aug 19, 2019 16:16
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Need more mountaintops
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Aug 20, 2019 05:15
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Dang that's hazy!
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Aug 20, 2019 19:12
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Lol probably just typical Riverside County smog.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:19
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