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Jerusalem posted:Junior reminds him he is an old man who got head in the head, of COURSE he was disorientated Xander77 fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 13:57
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Something else that I picked up on in your review but never noticed myself was Tony's promise to visit Green Grove and Livia's home for Paulie. Do you think killing Ralphie was, in some part, a way to escape that obligation?
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Aug 15, 2019 15:22
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It probably did matter to Tony whether he did or did not set the fire, but whatever Tony came up with in his head was the "reality" of the situation and nothing could change that. Tony decided Ralph did it, and that was it- though it's partially Ralph's fault he didn't do more to deflect the accusation. Ralph probably couldn't be convinced to care beyond the perfunctory performance he put on for Tony, for the reasons previously mentioned itt and that he himself enumerated (though his timing was terrible- and had he not been so matter-of-fact, Tony might have spared him). "Depression is rage turned inward"; Tony needed an outlet for his depression over her death, and rage is the only way he can really express himself without violating the covenant of Gary Cooper.
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Aug 15, 2019 22:44
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"what are you a vegetarian? You eat beef and sausage by fuckin carload!"
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Aug 15, 2019 22:56
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banned from Starbucks posted:"what are you a vegetarian? You eat beef and sausage by fuckin carload!"  *kills u*
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Aug 15, 2019 23:18
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Thanks Xander, will fix it right away.Mameluke posted:Something else that I picked up on in your review but never noticed myself was Tony's promise to visit Green Grove and Livia's home for Paulie. Do you think killing Ralphie was, in some part, a way to escape that obligation? I don't think so, as nobody outside of Christopher will ever know he killed Ralph (though they all suspect it) and not visiting Nucci after promising to do it would be an even bigger insult to Paulie. I don't believe we ever see him actually visit her, but I always assumed that it is something he did end up doing.
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Aug 15, 2019 23:23
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It's like Pussy said when they were making the guy from the Czech Republic (where they also love pork) vanish. "They know, but they don't know."
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Aug 15, 2019 23:50
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Does New York ever get pissed about Ralph getting offed? I can't remember that it ever comes up, and considering Carmine's refusal to allow Johnny to get him you'd think they'd be upset about the Esplanade Apple Cart being disrupted. Granted like Tony's crew they have no proof that Tony did anything so I guess what can they ultimately do.
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Aug 16, 2019 14:45
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Ginette Reno posted:Does New York ever get pissed about Ralph getting offed? I can't remember that it ever comes up, and considering Carmine's refusal to allow Johnny to get him you'd think they'd be upset about the Esplanade Apple Cart being disrupted. Yeah, since Ralphie is their point guy at the Esplanade they're definitely irritated he just 'vanished' (especially John, as we'll find most of his income is from construction) but they don't get too spun out over it. I believe it's implied Vito steps up as capo of the Aprile crew and does a good job there as he's also got experience in construction.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:01
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My impression of the Esplanade situation is that Ralphie was crucially important to getting it off the ground but by the time of his death the wheels were in motion and the money was already starting to come in. Not as big a deal for someone else to step into his shoes as it would've been at the beginning.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:13
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Still, it says a lot that Tony just killed a made man for no reason and everyone lets it slide.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Still, it says a lot that Tony just killed a made man for no reason and everyone lets it slide. I think if he hadn't handled it as quickly and smartly as he did, bringing just one trusted guy over to deal with it and immediately getting the body cleaned up etc., it would've gone down a different way. They really have nothing more than whispers and vague suspicions so what can they do?
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Aug 16, 2019 15:18
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Basebf555 posted:I think if he hadn't handled it as quickly and smartly as he did, bringing just one trusted guy over to deal with it and immediately getting the body cleaned up etc., it would've gone down a different way. They really have nothing more than whispers and vague suspicions so what can they do? Christopher is definitely the right one for the job too because Chris has his own problems what with drugs and feeling like he owes Tony due to Tony bringing him along. I think the only other one he might have been able to fully trust for that job would have been Sil. Paulie might have done the job but I don't know that he'd be able to keep his mouth shut about it.
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Aug 16, 2019 15:22
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Sil definitely would have done it and kept his mouth shut. Aside from Artie, Sil is the closest thing to a friend Tony has. There's a small moment when Tony is talking about Chris' death and Sil makes this little face and I think it was supposed to show that he put two and two together that Tony may not have been telling the whole truth about what happened to Chris.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:03
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There's a good moment somewhere where Sil is trying to bring the concerns of 'the troops' to Tony (over Tony B, I think) and the way Tony just blows him off Sil realizes that while he used to be the guy who could call Tony on his crap - and indeed that's kind of the role of the consiglieri - realizes Tony no longer wanted to hear it and even Sil might be on the block if he pushed too hard.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:11
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Dawgstar posted:There's a good moment somewhere where Sil is trying to bring the concerns of 'the troops' to Tony (over Tony B, I think) and the way Tony just blows him off Sil realizes that while he used to be the guy who could call Tony on his crap - and indeed that's kind of the role of the consiglieri - realizes Tony no longer wanted to hear it and even Sil might be on the block if he pushed too hard. Tony gets so mad during that scene in part because Sil is 100% correct and he knows it. Nothing pisses Tony off more than being called on his own poo poo.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:40
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Basebf555 posted:I think if he hadn't handled it as quickly and smartly as he did, bringing just one trusted guy over to deal with it and immediately getting the body cleaned up etc., it would've gone down a different way. They really have nothing more than whispers and vague suspicions so what can they do? I always found it weird that Tony tells his Capos that he "thinks" that Johnny Sack / NY killed Ralph and tells them to look into it and then they just never mention it again
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Aug 16, 2019 17:56
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, since Ralphie is their point guy at the Esplanade they're definitely irritated he just 'vanished' (especially John, as we'll find most of his income is from construction) but they don't get too spun out over it. I like how Tony sells the lie to both sides by implying directly to John and Carmine that he thinks they're responsible.
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Aug 16, 2019 22:12
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EwokEntourage posted:I always found it weird that Tony tells his Capos that he "thinks" that Johnny Sack / NY killed Ralph and tells them to look into it and then they just never mention it again If you think about it, it's the perfect way to put the matter to bed. For starters, nobody liked Ralphie, even his own crew as Jerusalem points out by watching Vito and the rest react to him. Two, pinning the blame on New York neatly puts the matter out of New Jersey's hands. Nobody wants to go to war with one of the Five Families, especially over that strunz. And - and this is something I just realized with banned from Starbucks' post above - Tony gets to keep that card in his back pocket if he ever needs something for righteous indignation against Carmine's family.
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Aug 16, 2019 23:05
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Dawgstar posted:There's a good moment somewhere where Sil is trying to bring the concerns of 'the troops' to Tony (over Tony B, I think) and the way Tony just blows him off Sil realizes that while he used to be the guy who could call Tony on his crap - and indeed that's kind of the role of the consiglieri - realizes Tony no longer wanted to hear it and even Sil might be on the block if he pushed too hard. It's especially interesting given the scene earlier this season where Sil specifically goes against Tony's orders in a fit of pique over Christopher's rapid ascension, and is completely open and even aggressive with Tony about the fact he did it. He pushes to remind Tony of his own status and that he's not just some walkover, and the gamble pays off. If he'd tried it again in season 5 or 6, the result might not have been the same.
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Aug 17, 2019 03:02
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Dawgstar posted:There's a good moment somewhere where Sil is trying to bring the concerns of 'the troops' to Tony (over Tony B, I think) and the way Tony just blows him off Sil realizes that while he used to be the guy who could call Tony on his crap - and indeed that's kind of the role of the consiglieri - realizes Tony no longer wanted to hear it and even Sil might be on the block if he pushed too hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E60uBhsVnU From 2:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-U6fVvgEQ Then there's this one, the one you're talking about. I love Sil.
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Aug 17, 2019 10:46
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, since Ralphie is their point guy at the Esplanade they're definitely irritated he just 'vanished' (especially John, as we'll find most of his income is from construction)... What? No. Johnny Sack loving hated Ralph and it came to a head over the Ginnie comment where John wanted him clipped. Obligatory favorite Silvio freakout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-LYLRK2Y38
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Aug 17, 2019 15:09
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John even complains during that whole rigmarole that anybody could run the Esplanade now it has started up, he even suggests Eugene for the job. To be fair, he wasn't exactly in a particularly constructive frame of mind at the time, but as noted he wouldn't shed any tears at the thought of Ralphie disappearing forever. I'll get Strong, Silent Type up sometime tomorrow, I've been pretty sick sorry.
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Aug 19, 2019 13:40
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Jerusalem posted:John even complains during that whole rigmarole that anybody could run the Esplanade now it has started up, he even suggests Eugene for the job. To be fair, he wasn't exactly in a particularly constructive frame of mind at the time, but as noted he wouldn't shed any tears at the thought of Ralphie disappearing forever. No need to apologize. These write-ups are a big undertaking and I think we all appreciate the effort you put into them. It's free and quality content so I'm just enjoying the posts as they come.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:40
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Ginette Reno posted:No need to apologize. These write-ups are a big undertaking and I think we all appreciate the effort you put into them. It's free and quality content so I'm just enjoying the posts as they come.  this is among my five favourite threads at the moment, get well and do it when you’re ready bro.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:06
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Jerusalem posted:I'll get Strong, Silent Type up sometime tomorrow, I've been pretty sick sorry. Hope ya feel better!
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Aug 19, 2019 16:32
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Jerusalem posted:
Yeah, Jerusalem, quit slacking. *has posted 98% of the words in this thread*
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Aug 20, 2019 00:00
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Jerusalem posted:
Hopefully you’re having a lynchian fever dream with talking fish. TV IV POSTER WEDS ANGIE DICKENSON
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Aug 20, 2019 06:18
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Season 4, Episode 10 - The Strong, Silent TypeSvetlana Kirilenko posted:You have everything and you still complain Christopher is at home watching an Our Gang short on television as he cooks up a shot of heroin. Tying off and shooting up, he manages to slowly wander his way over towards the couch where Cosette is laid out asleep. Without looking behind him, eyes latched onto the screen, he drops straight down onto the couch, right on top of Cosette who just manages to let out a cut-off yelp before falling silent. Christopher, completely blitzed, doesn't event notice. At the Soprano household, a newly short-haired Carmela checks her new haircut in the mirror before eagerly opening the door to welcome Furio... but it's Benny again, the opposite of the tall handsome man she was expecting. He explains Furio couldn't make his flight out of the country, and a visibly disappointed Carmela invites him in. Not offering him coffee or even registering his presence due to her distracted air, she leaves him to uncomfortably seat himself by the door to wait for Tony. In the kitchen, Tony is about to make a quick exit when he finally notices her hair and, like an idiot, complains that she was supposed to talk to him before doing anything with her hairstyle. Bristling at this, she asks him what he thinks and like an idiot he doesn't take this second chance to compliment her, instead complaining again about how short it is. Finally he grasps that he's loving up and offers a belated compliment that it makes her look younger, but by now it is too late and she blankly tells him Benny is waiting. Adriana comes home to find Christopher passed out on the couch as a movie plays on the television. She turns off the television, casting a disappointed look Christopher's way, then calls out for Cosette, wanting to take her for a walk. Christopher wakes as she calls out, asking him where the dog is... and then notices the back half of Cosette poking out from beneath him. Horrified she rushes to his side and moves him away, Christopher startled to spot her there finally. Adriana is in a panic, Cosette isn't breathing and her neck feels broken, and the devastating truth immediately hits her: Cosette is dead. She backs away in denial as Christopher reaches down and lifts Cosette's corpse up, mumbling that he fell asleep, offering perhaps the most pathetic excuse even a junkie has ever given: the dog must have crawled under there for warmth. Horror mixes with grief and rage at this pathetic effort to couch the death as somehow a sign of the bond between him and Cosette, and she screams at him for killing her dog, slapping at him as he grumbles that he didn't MEAN to kill her. Accusing his drugs and his lifestyle of ruining everything, she flees into the bedroom. Still half-asleep and half-stoned, Christopher doesn't really know what to do or say, other than being irritated that she's making such a big deal out of it.... after all, he did offer to buy her a new dog!   At the back of the Bada Bing, Tony and Silvio are playing Georgie and Paulie at pool, all light-hearted good times. But Tony is forever thinking, waiting for an opportune time as everybody is in a good mood to bring up the subject of Ralph. Playing the concerned Boss, he asks if anybody has heard from him, and calls his phone for not the first time, getting the answering machine he knew would pick up. Christopher arrives just after Paulie fucks up his shot, providing Paulie with a convenient excuse for why. Chrissy, hangdog and mopey, is carrying a package that was apparently waiting outside for Tony. Tony hangs up and asks Christopher if he is doing okay, and the withdrawn, pale Christopher assures him he's doing great. Tony knows he does heroin now and is on the lookout for any signs not only of being high but also cracking under the pressure of the knowledge of Ralph's fate. But Tony himself is calm, cool and collected... until he opens the package and removes a framed painting of himself and Pie-O-My, the commission from the artist Valentina introduced him to. His face falls and he makes a beeline out the door in spite of it being his turn up at the table, and Paulie of course immediately declares this is a forfeit and collects the money bet at the table. Tony drives away, calling Silvio on his phone as he goes and instructing him to get rid of the painting, insisting he burn it, he never wants to see it again. The pain of Pie-O-My's death is too raw for him to deal with, especially not as tied up as his memories of the horse are now with Ralph and his murder. Furio finally arrives back from Italy, driven by taxi through the less than enchanting roadside scenery of New Jersey. If the trash in Naples left him down, the squalor and trashiness of massage parlors, gas stations bedecked crassly with American flags and fast food joins everywhere certainly don't leave him with the hardon he got when he flew back into Italy. The driver babbles into his hands-free headseat on his phone in a foreign language, leaving Furio feeling even more alienated, more a stranger than ever after realizing he couldn't go home again. Silvio, Patsy and Albert share a meal at Vesuvio's. Albert slides an envelope of cash over Silvio's way but then gets down to the REAL business: where the hell is Ralph? Silvio figures he's probably retreated into solitude due to his son's recent accident, but Albert - after testing the waters to make sure it was okay to speak - says what he assumes everybody is thinking: Tony killed Ralph. To his credit, Silvio doesn't flat out deny the allegation, simply saying that he honestly doesn't know. None of them dispute the idea, they all know Tony had a bad history with Ralph and they came to blows once before which almost lead to a killing. Silvio excuses himself to use the bathroom and Albert takes the chance to get conspiratorial with Patsy, agreeing that while he himself had no love for Ralph, to kill a guy over a horse? Patsy, who knows his twin brother was murdered by Tony and has had to eat poo poo every day since being friends with him anyway, coldly agrees that if it could happen to Ralph - a Made guy - then it could happen to any of them. On one point though Albert takes solace, he knows that if it ever came out that Tony did make a move like that on a Made guy without going through proper protocol, then Silvio is the kind of guy who would go after him for it to set things right, Boss or not.   It's a casual, hypothetical conversation but at the same time that doesn't/can't really exist in the Mafia. They're talking about the possible execution of their Boss for killing somebody they all detested, simply because the Boss didn't follow protocol. Tony may have expertly disposed of Ralph's physical remains, but his presence still lingers and is as disruptive as it ever was. As they speak about "pulling the plug", Tony sits a vigil beside Justin's bed in the hospital, his face a stern mask that hides whatever guilt or regret (or even anger, perhaps towards Ralph for "making" him murder him) he might be feeling. The door opens and he jerks up in his seat and turns to see Justin's mother/Ralph's ex-wife Ronnie coming through the door, surprised to see him. Not explaining himself, he simply states that he thinks the (now sleeping) Justin recognized him earlier, then presses an envelope stuffed with cash into her hands. Bewildered by the gesture, Ronnie hesitates but doesn't fight him as he makes sure it goes into her hand. She offers him a thank you, as Tony once again attempts to appease HIS guilt/negative feelings through money to make HIMSELF feel better. The next day, the doorbell rings and Carmela checks her hair again as she approaches the door, and this time she is not disappointed: Furio is back. She immediately invites him in but nervously he says he will wait in the car, and her face falls before she catches herself and offers him a generous welcome back. He tells her he brought presents for the children and some of his uncle's wine coming later for the adults, warming her heart even further at the sweet gesture of this beautiful man (and brutal enforcer/murderer). She offers him coffee but he again says he will wait in the car, and she closes the door behind him and watches him go. in the kitchen she of course opens the barely wrapped presents for AJ and "Maedo", delighted at the thought put into both. But there's nothing else in the bag, no present for her, and she can't hide that she's let down by the apparent lack of thought. But of course outside, Furio sits with tears streaming down his face that he quickly wipes aside as he see Tony coming. Tony notices the tears and grumpily asks what the problem is, and when Furio claims it is sadness for his father Tony can accept that but is quick to remind him that while this is ok he has to get over it now that he's back. A quick scene cut later and you'll be surprised to learn Tony Soprano is a hypocrite! Sitting in therapy, he weeps openly as he talks about opening the package and finding the painting of Pie-O-My inside. Tony who could sit stern-faced at the bedside of the hospitalized son of a man HE killed, is in tears over being reminded of his dead horse. But when Melfi, like a good therapist, asks him to explain what he did next/how he felt etc, he retreats into his usual deflections. This time it is complaining once again about having to be the "sad clown" who puts on a brave face for his friends and family. Melfi tries a roundabout tactic, pointing out that she's never actually seen him acting that way and it also doesn't mesh with Carmela's descriptions of him during their joint sessions with her. She isn't accusing him, she's trying to get him to engage and think about and most importantly discuss his feelings, but he of course takes offense at being called out about telling her one thing and doing another. Petulantly he asks if she'd prefer Carmela as a patient over himself, and alarms her when he reveals that he has been doubling his own medication at times to get through rough periods before dropping back to normal before "the limp dick" kicks in. Aghast, she is quick to explain what he should already know, that medication does not work this way and he is not qualified to dictate how much he should be taking and when. But as always she's found herself drifting away from the mark whenever she thought she was getting somewhere, and she tries to pull him back by returning to Pie-O-My. He's offended again when she points out that, while sad, the dead Pie-O-My was "just" a horse, and doesn't see the connection when she points out the last time he was this upset was when the ducks left his pool back in the pilot. He grieves openly for animals but not for people, not for his mother or Jackie Aprile or anybody else. She ignores his complaint that maybe he is just sad for a horse dying, reminding him the ducks represented feelings of dread for his parents so maybe, just maybe his grief for the horse is to help mask his sadness for something else? Does he thinks of Tracee (or an idealized version of herself that in turn represents his daughter) here? Does he consider the Ralph situation might have put his own life on the line and in turn threatened the security of his family? If so, he gives no sign. But he clearly wants to veer away from this uncomfortable line of thought. So once again he deflects, using Justin's situation to disarm her until her very genuine sympathy extends to the family which in turn makes him think of Ralph again. So he deflects further by despairing over Christopher being a drug addict, but her questioning about his close connection brings up thoughts of Ralph again so instead he casts a wider net and complains about 9/11. It's like the world is being stalked, and he wishes they could be like the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr."Reverend"[/url] Rodney King Jr and "just get along". When she asks why he finds the thought so unlikely, he plays the cool, level-headed realist and reminds her who she is talking to. When she notes that he has caused his fair share of pain in the world, he makes the ultimate deflection/excuse for his lack of personal accountability by pointing out that Carmela prays to God, but what kind of God would allow all the poo poo going on in the world to happen? For that, Melfi has no answer, but another therapy session has gone by with Tony managing to stay most surface deep in his problems.   A distracted, fuming Adriana is seething through a meet with Agent Sanseverino who is trying to find out who the other mobsters have been meeting with/talking about, particularly Carmine Lupertazzi. Noticing Adriana's demeanor, Sanseverino assumes there are problems with Christopher but mistakes it for pre-wedding jitters. She's not all that surprised but still taken aback when Adriana blurts out angrily that Christopher is stoned on heroin constantly. In fact, the FBI are responsible for pamphlets for a rehab facility in Hazelden that have been coming in the mail, since they're fully aware of Christopher's drug use. Either because they want Christopher clean to continue getting closer to the top level with Tony/Carmine or because she just wants to make Adriana feel grateful to them, she's encouraging of Adriana helping Christopher get clean. All that goes out the window though when a car pulls up alongside them with a little dog inside. The normally severe Agent immediately is full of babytalk for the dog, which causes Adriana to burst into tears at the reminder of Cosette. Silvio and Paulie are waiting in a loading bay just outside of the rain, expecting a shipment of High Definition televisions that haven't yet arrived. Silvio puts through a call to Christopher and gets his answering machine, pissing him off since Christopher is supposed to be handling the delivery. As they wait, Paulie carefully points out to Silvio how Tony looked like he was going to cry when he saw the painting of Pie-O-My. Silvio doesn't answer, but Paulie's comment about Ralph still being missing would seem to be a sign that even if he suspects Tony of having murdered Ralph... though he's probably one of the few who would have zero issue of this breach of protocol. Christopher himself is driving through a rough looking neighborhood in search of heroin, looking strung out and pitiful as he peeks around for any sign of a corner dealer. Pulling up alongside a likely pair, a Puerto Rican man approaches his window and offers to sell to him for $500. Christopher agrees, but the dealer pulls out a gun instead of drugs and demands her get out of the car. Suddenly Christopher's old arrogance is back, he's sitting up straight and staring down in contempt as he demands to know if they know who he is. They don't give a poo poo though, hauling him out of the car as another member of the crew quickly leaps inside and drives it away. The other two go through Christopher's pockets and take the gun from his ankle holster, ignoring him when he sneers at them about who he is with, but becoming enraged when he says he planned to stick the gun up their mother's twat. They smash him to the ground and then deliver him a beating as he lays in the garbage, a far cry from the romantic vision he ever had of being a Made guy. At Sunday dinner, Tony is pissed when the cork in the bottle of Furio's uncle's wine breaks apart as he puts in a corkscrew. Carmela expertly empties the bottle into a bowl while keeping the cork out, while Tony fumes about how he saw Ronnie in the hospital and how Justin has a respiratory infection, but nobody has seen Ralph. The lady doth protest too much, but Tony wants to paint himself as the virtuous, thoughtful guy and Ralph as the piece of poo poo who can't even stay by his son's bed at the hospital. His rage masks his guilt, speaking openly about Ralph to everybody surely indicates he has nothing to hide. He becomes upset when his little act falls on deaf ears, Carmela is busily working with the wine and hasn't been listening, and when he calls her on it she explains she was worried about her mother's skin condition. Tony notices the giblet bag has been left inside the chicken and pulls it out, and quietly she gasps that she can't believe she forgot to take it out. Now Tony can project further, asking her what is the matter with HER. At the dinner table, Carmela talks to her mother about the trip she needs to take to the doctor in Boston, insisting that it isn't a difficult trip. Mary complains that Carmela just doesn't want to accompany her, and we finally get some minor explanation at last for Carmela's never seen sister. Apparently she now lives in Florida, and Carmela casually dismisses the idea she might come up to go to Boston with Mary, neatly removing the need to ever have to cast the character. Tony takes his seat and brings up Pie-O-My to Hugh, clearly irritated when like the others Hugh is sympathetic but quickly distracted/far from devastated like Tony believes everybody should be. Adriana answers the doorbell at the apartment and is shocked to find a beat-up Christopher and another junkie at the door. She quickly helps him to the couch and asks him a million questions that he doesn't bother to answer, leaving that to the junkie - Eddie "from down the park" - to fill her in. As she checks on Christopher, Eddie looks around the apartment, mentally calculating the worth of everything not nailed down. He asks her for money, saying Christopher promised to pay him if he got him back to his apartment. Disgusted, ignoring Christopher's protest that "he's good people", she kicks a dispirited Eddie out of the apartment with no money. Now Christopher has the temerity to be upset at her for being so mean to his "friend", acting as if everything is fine as he grabs a cigarette. Fed up, she grabs one of the rehab pamphlets and hands it to him. Confused, he looks at it, sees it is for a recovery program and when she shrugs at him like it is the most obvious thing in the world, he backhands her. This time though he doesn't leave it at that like the time in the bar with Matt and Sean. After the initial strike he shoves her back, demanding to know if she put him on the mailing list, and then balls up a fist and punches her right in the face. She goes down hard and he looms over her, demanding to know where she gets the balls. Uncle Richie is long gone and even if he was around Christopher is too far gone to control himself, he grabs her purse and pulls out what cash she has, then goes straight out the door in search of another attempt to score despite how badly the last one went. Adriana is left behind, sobbing and battered, her life in tatters even worse than she thought it already was.   Paulie arrives outside the Bada Bing and is alarmed to see Little Paulie and Benny lighting fire to the painting of Pie-O-My. Rushing to the side of the dumpster he pulls it away and waves off the flames, complaining that a classy piece like this will bring "25 to 30 G's at a minimum!". Taking the painting that cost (too much) a 1/6th of that to purchase, he puts it into his car, saying he'd be proud to have a painting of the Boss hanging in his house. Uncle Richie is long gone but Uncle Tony isn't. Carmela calls him downstairs in the morning in his bathrobe, upset to be woken so early until he sees the reason why. Adriana sits at the kitchen counter with an enormous black eye, and Tony is instantly over to her side, asking what happened, furious to learn it was caused by Christopher (though typically he does ask WHAT she did to cause it, enraging Carmela). It's all out in the open now though, Christopher is a junkie using heroin, a revelation he leaves uncommented as he tries to put through a call to Christopher only to see the dealer who robbed him laughing and calling him an rear end in a top hat. Adriana explains he was carjacked and then says she has packed her bags to stay with her Aunt in Florida (everybody's got relatives down there it seems). Tony tells her not to do anything reckless (it would have actually been the smartest thing she could have ever done) so instead she hopefully offers what she already tried and failed herself, she wants Tony to send him to rehab. Carmela brings up the option of an Intervention but he reminds them that they're a "family", asking if he has to spell out what that means. But he'll go and find Christopher and they'll work something out. Adriana, like so many battered partners before her, offers a pathetic little plea on behalf of the scumbag who beat her up: please don't hurt him. Paulie returns home and happily puts the painting of Pie-O-My and Tony on the wall. Satisfied, he hops into his chair to watch some boxing, the painting of Tony sitting behind him... watching. Carmela visits Furio at his home again, having dragged a bored AJ along with her yet again as a quasi-chaperone. Furio is surprised to see her but relieved to see AJ is there too, and invites them in when she tells him she has come around with some decorating ideas. He apologizes for the "mess" (a couple unwashed dishes in an otherwise tidy home) and she offers to show him a page from "Metropolitan Home" for decorating ideas for his living room. He offers her a drink and AJ jumps at the chance to explain they have to go and can't stick around. Carmela of course asks for a coffee and a fed up AJ slouches away. By way of apology she lies to Furio and tells him AJ loved the present, and he explains the little figurine is good luck. She adds that Meadow loved the miniature version of Dante's Divine Comedy (she probably did), and Furio immediately picks up on her intent and explains that he feels bad for not having brought a gift of her, insisting that he actually did bring one but forgot it on the day. Grabbing at the first thing he sees, he offers her a jar of balsamic vinegar aged 35 years and made by the family of his brother-in-law. Recognizing the gesture for what it is, she smiles but without much enthusiasm as she takes it, and shifts the conversation to his return to Italy. It may have been for sad reasons, but surely he loved being back? He admits that actually it was not so nice, he feels like he doesn't belong there anymore, like life moved on without him. Almost desperate she latches on to this, asking if there wasn't somebody special waiting for him, probably thinking of the photo of Annalisa she found at the housewarming. Instead he talks about how he feels the same in America, like maybe there is nothing for him here either. She insists he has built a good life here, going fishing again when she points out he has a girlfriend, and almost feverishly asks for more info when he says he and Jessica broke up. Hungrily she devours his every word as he tells her that with Jessica there was no communication "like with some people", and she manages to get out that communication is the key to love. He agrees, and they stand staring at each other for a pregnant moment before AJ lurches into the scene complaining about having stuff to do and reminding her she was going to take him to CompUSA. The spell broken for now, she thanks him again for the vinegar and makes her departure with her rude son, leaving Furio alone again. He turns off the kettle as it screeches, they never got their drink which might explain why they're both so loving thirsty.   Svetlana - glorious Svetlana - is working away on a laptop in Junior's kitchen when she hears the cellar door. She calls out to see who it is and Tony and Furio come up the stairs, Tony asking where "Bronco" is, has the registered nurse already called it quits? Svetlana explains she is in the hospital with a cyst so she is filling in for her. He's come to see Junior but he is napping, so Tony says they'll wait and then offers her a drink of the wine Furio has brought as a gift. They pour three glasses and take a sip, Svetlana declaring it needs ice. As she hobbles over to the fridge, both Tony and Furio watch her, though whether it is her missing leg or her rear end that has their attention isn't clear. Furio excuses himself to watch some television (surprised to find Junior has no cable), while Tony inquires as to what Svetlana is doing. It turns out she is making a website for her business, learning as she goes because she refuses to pay somebody $35 an hour to do it for her, and she can always ask her Knight in White Satin Armor Bill to help her if she gets stuck. They're still not married, Bill is currently away attending spring training for the Mets and she's hopeful they'll finally tie the knot then. The more they talk, the more impressed Tony is. She's always so cool and collected, she doesn't let things bother her, she makes no excuses, she simply goes out and works every angle and gets what she wants in spite of her handicap. At first he thinks she is mocking him when she expresses confusion about what excuse she could have for giving up, but eventually realizes she genuinely didn't think about her leg at all. That impresses him further, she's so used to getting around without a leg that its absence has to be pointed out to her. He credits "you Russians" for their attitudes, but she simply shrugs and in that simple, beautifully straightforward way she has comments that "people are people." Paulie is running the carpet sweeper around when something prickling at the back of his mind makes him turn around and stare at the painting of Tony and Pie-O-My. There he is, the Boss of the Family, smiling and beaming down on him... looking at him, staring at him, penetrating him with his unblinking, horrible gaze.   Junior has woken and he and Tony are discussing the issue that Tony needed to see him about : Christopher. More specifically, the heroin that Christopher is using. Junior's advice is clear, if you love a dog and it gets rabies, you put it out of its misery. They drink Furio's Uncle's wine, Junior complaining it reminds him of feet but still knocking back more of it after complaining. Tony agrees that anybody else he would instantly kill (without ever using the word), and accepts Junior's warning that Christopher in the hands of the FBI would be a huge liability in his current state. But he can't bring himself to do it, and so the best bet is to get him clean. He brings up Dominic Palladino, a former junkie thief who has since gotten clean, suggesting he bring him in and help get Christopher into rehab. Junior can only laugh at the state of the mob nowadays: Christopher in rehab, Tony in therapy, himself undergoing competency hearings. It's a far cry from the mythologized legends of the old days. Carmela is similarly seeking advice, this time from Rosalie as they have tea on the deck of (presumably) Rosalie's home, which is less ostentatious than Carmela's but still a far cry from the simplicity of Junior's. Carmela is venting her soul on her obsession with Furio, admitting to a childish sadness that he brought gifts for the children but not for her, knowing the vinegar was clearly not originally meant for her. Rosalie is delighted and amused at Carmela acting like a lovesick teenager, but also deadly serious when she warns what the consequences for Furio will be if Tony even suspects something MIGHT be up. Carmela reveals that Rosalie herself had a brief affair while Jackie was still alive, but Rosalie dismisses that as nothing serious: it was a guy from her gym and she felt sick the entire time from guilt/fear, using Jackie's cancer diagnosis as the excuse she needed to end it for her own peace of mind. She's shocked to discover that Carmela and Furio aren't actually having sex, and immediately jumps on that as the perfect point to cut things off now before anything has happened and it is too late. Carmela insists it is still real despite the lack of any physical intimacy, talking yearningly of how he looks at her like she is beautiful, that he communicates with her, that he finds her interesting. Rosalie can only offer again the recommendation that if nothing has happened yet then make sure nothing ever does: don't be alone with him, don't go over to his house, do nothing to put herself in temptation's way. She has a point, after all while Carmela's feelings might be genuine, how much of that stems purely from the fact that Furio pays attention to her in a way that Tony doesn't? Sure he is handsome and young and strong which goes a long way to making somebody more receptive, but everything she mentions as proof of how "real" her crush on him is sounds like things she is simply lacking from her husband. An assortment of characters assemble at a home (presumably Silvio's, as Gabriella is the one handing out snacks) to meet with Dominic Palladino. Benny, Furio, Carmela, Tony, Adriana, Gabriella, Silvio and Paulie are all present, a mix of Tony's family and his Family. Dominic introduces himself, he's articulate and even-tempered, calmly taking onboard Paulie's contempt and verbal abuse for his past as an alcoholic scumbag. If anything is a good advertisement for the power of an intervention it is him, as he explains the process to them, reminds them it needs to be non-judgmental, offers suggestions on what to say and how to say it etc. But they're not pleased to hear he himself has been through more than one intervention, having relapsed once in 1997, or that he points out that heroin users, like alcoholics, have a high rate of recidivism. In any case, he's laid out what they need to do, their "homework" is to make up a list of the times Christopher's addiction has impacted them. They're going to "care-front" him (Carmela loves that line) and if he's high they'll keep him there and wait for him to sober up, but they're not going until they've told him everything he needs to hear. Tony drives with Valentina, discussing Justin's condition. But while he lays out the tough road the boy has ahead of him, Valentina is already moving on to thinking about what she will have for lunch. Tony clearly disapproves of her attitude, even though she told him she never met Justin despite being Ralph's girlfriend, projecting again his guilt/anger onto somebody else so he doesn't have to think about the fact he is the one who killed the father of that poor kid. He has to make a stop before the meal though, pulling up to meet with Johnny Sack overlooking the river. He's not pleased, complaining John is making him late for a table at Tavern on the Green, and is surprised when Johnny tells him he's come to get his piece of the HUD action. He knows everything: Zellman, Garside Street, Ralph, HUD. Condescendingly he explains he hasn't let Carmine know to protect Tony, as now he can "make it right" without looking like he was holding back. Infuriated, Tony snaps that he only cut them in on Frelinghuysen Avenue out of friendship but there's nothing more coming. He storms off, ignoring Johnny's warning that this isn't a road he wants to go down. Normally he'd be right, but Tony justified anger at this demand has also offered him something far more valuable than money: it has given him a scapegoat. Paulie takes the painting to an artist, asking him to touch it up and change things around so Tony is no longer quite so... Tony. He wants to put him in a uniform "like" Napoleon, to adjust the facial structure etc. Sometime after this visit as well at Tony's trip to Tavern on the Green, Paulie joins Tony at the back of the Bada Bing where all the other Captains/top ranking soldiers are waiting. Silvio, Furio, Albert, Carlo and Vito are all there at Tony's call, because he has something shocking to tell them: he knows what happened to Ralph. Quickly he tells them a thin-on-details version of his meeting with Ralph, implying that he got the impression New York got their information from Ralph in a confrontation where things "went sour". This is feasible to everybody there, they all know how maddening Ralphie could be even at the best of times. Even Paulie believes it, though for entirely different reasons, looking startled when somebody brings up how mad the fat joke about Ginny made Johnny. Do they TRULY believe it? Perhaps not, but that isn't important. What is important is that Tony has given them something they can conceivably believe MIGHT be true. That saves face, that allows them to live with the fact Tony murdered Ralph over "a dead horse" without looking weak themselves for not enforcing tradition/protocol. For Tony's part, it is telling just how far he is willing to go to get away with his own breaking of the rules he so recently was shoving down everybody's throat. He's willing to at least pay lipservice to the potential for a war with one of the Five Families to get away with his mistake. He has no intention of going to war, but he's willing to let the relationship get rocky for awhile and risk revenue loss, territory incursions and beatings over facing up to the truth of what he did. For now though he simply tells everybody to sit tight, warning them not to make move until they know exactly what happened. Or in other words.... do nothing and stop thinking it was him.   Christopher emerges from his bedroom to a shocking sight, friends and family (including his mother) gathered around his living room. Tony tells him to take a seat and Dominic introducing him, it all happening too fast for him to really register what is going on. He remembers Dominic from his addict/thief days, but when he finally grasps they're here for an intervention he tries to storm back into his bedroom before being warned by Paulie and Tony to once again sit down. He takes his seat, glaring at everybody around the room (especially Adriana) for this "betrayal". She begins, unfolding a piece of paper and tearfully telling him how much she loves him before detailing how his addiction is destroying their lives, including his ability to perform sexually (Paulie's eyes light up at this choice little tidbit). But when she reveals that he killed Cosette, they're all surprised, none moreso than Tony who fixates on this beyond all else. Like with Pie-O-My, the death of an innocent creature resonates with him in a way it does not (or he will not admit it does) with anybody above the age of a child. Tony stares with disgust at the man he thought would take the Family into the 21st Century, having to be quieted by Dominic when he starts threatening to suffocate Christopher for this. Silvio gives a hilariously monotone reading of his own incident, complaining about Christopher having his head half in the toilet one morning at the Bada Bing, refusing to say or be drawn on any more when Christopher complains this was due to the flu. Tony keeps coming back to the dog, getting angrier and angrier, leaping on the chance to show more disgust when Carmela says she was fully aware how high he was when babbling at Livia's wake. Tony, who of course can safely be offended at this show of disrespect to a mother he hated when she lived, glares at his nephew/cousin in revulsion. Paulie goes next, he hasn't written anything down but simply lays out his impression of Christopher as a weak embarrassment. Dominic attempts to bring them back into line, reminding them not to be judgmental, but Paulie refuses to back down which kicks Christopher off mocking them all for their own flaws. He brings up Silvio's infidelities, Paulie loving up with the Russian guy in the Pine Barrens, and mocking Tony for his Type-A Personality and his lovely diet. That's enough for Paulie who rushes over and threatens to beat him, pleasing Mrs. Moltisanti who says a beating is what he needs to get through to him. Dominic has lost complete control already, but things go beyond salvaging when Christopher snaps at his own mother that she's a whore. They sets everybody off, Silvio and Benny joining in on the beating till Christopher manages to tackle Benny into and through the coffee table. It's a darkly comic scene, meshing not just the humor and drama the show does so well but being a rare instance of Tony's family and Family being together in a scene where open discussion in front of all parties occurs. If you haven't seen it before (unlikely) you should watch this scene at least. If you have seen it before (likely) you should watch it again. It's really a remarkable scene! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40HPFGvZ4ro Tony and Furio walk into the hospital to check on Christopher post-beating, the story the disbelieving doctor was told that he slipped on the kitchen counter while spraying for ants and getting a hairline skull fracture. Tony asks Furio and Adriana to give him a minute alone with Christopher. Pulling the curtain shut, he looks down at the man who is (was?) like a son to him, and tells him to enjoy the aspirin in his system because it is the last drug he will ever take. Now that he has worked through his rage he is calm, which is always when he is at his scariest. Because it is no longer a matter of convincing Christopher to go to rehab, but telling him. He refuses to let Christopher talk, shutting him up every time he tries to speak, hitting Christopher harder with his words than any of the blows Silvio and Paulie rained down on him. His palpable disappointment, his contempt and his seething anger break through and leave Christopher in tears. Tony lays it all out, exactly what is going to happen. He is going to rehab. Patsy is taking him to Pennsylvania but he isn't leaving once he's handed him over. He'll be half a mile away from him in a motel the entire time Christopher goes through rehab. Christopher breaks down again, because he knows exactly what that means. Furio is the guy you send when you need immediate action, a problem solved simply and brutally. Patsy is the guy you send when you want to send a message. He's the guy who can threaten to plaster a woman's body all over the inside of her car, then happily pick up his groceries and go home with a spring in his step and a smile on his face. In spite of their sometimes acrimonious relationship, there will be no malice from Patsy, but also no relying on their sometimes friendship. Patsy will kill who is told to kill, he won't hesitate, and when he's done he won't give it a second thought as he goes on his merry way. After all, if he can bury down his rage over his twin brother's murder by the man he now calls Boss, anything else he is asked to do pales in comparison.   Tony returns to Junior's house with some pastries for Junior, who is taking a nap again. Svetlana, on crutches, has a bottle of vodka and laughs that she doesn't need Junior to drive her to drink, she can do that herself. He joins her on the couch and they take a few drinks, Tony noticing her fake leg off to the side. She remarks she wasn't expecting visitors, and they talk a little about various small things like Tony being at the hospital the night before, her disdain for the Mets who keep Bill away from her, and finally get onto Tony talking about how he likes thinking about her attitude, about how she always has a little smirk on like she's in on a private joke the rest of the world don't know. She laughs, but she also lights up at the compliment... until he takes it too far by again complimenting her on how she could be so pro-active and even-tempered despite losing her leg. Irritated, she asks if he thinks the purpose of people like her is to "inspire" people like him, and complains that Americans are spoiled, thinking nothing bad will ever happen and complaining when it does. They have everything but still complain, bitching to psychiatrists about how tough their life in when the rest of the world has it far worse. He takes that last part personally, putting on a forced smile, but without artifice she notes that he himself isn't so bad. After all, he's a big, strong guy full of life and mischief, the latter of which she of course holds in high esteem. Just like Carmela, Tony craves this kind of positive attention (which his mother never gave him, by the way), but unlike Carmela he has no reservations whatsoever towards acting on it. Gently speaking of her "Greta Garble" looks in the shadow and light surrounded by cigarette smoke, he reaches out and brushes her cheek, cups the side of her face and then leans in and kisses her, which she does not resist in the slightest. Christopher, Adriana and Patsy arrive at Eleuthera House in Pennsylvania, "A Place For New Beginnings". The staff inside are friendly and warm but leave no illusion that they are completely in charge. They check through his bags, don't let him take chocolate inside (cigarettes are fine though) because of the caffeine, and explain there are no phone calls for the first two weeks. Christopher promises he will write Adriana letters, mumbling that he'll keep a journal and publish it under a pen name, seeking solace in his old dream of being a writer. Christopher and Adriana embrace and kiss, telling each other they love the other... but Christopher keeps an eye on Patsy the entire time, who doesn't take his eyes off Christopher either. He's there with a job to do, he intends to do it. At Junior's, Tony dresses after screwing Svetlana on his uncle's couch. He asks when Bill will be back and she says in a week, so he starts calculating how often he'll be able to get away from Carmela (and Valentina!) to see her again. But she throws cold water on that idea when with utterly relaxed sincerity she says he's a nice guy but she's got her own problems to deal with and doesn't want to spend all her time "propping him up". He's utterly flummoxed, for perhaps the first time in his life (outside of maybe Melfi) experiencing not just rejection but also a searingly accurate summation of his own problems delivered with zero fear or concern for who and what he is. He is the guy who ends it with women, sometimes sweetly and sometimes disastrously, but it is always his choice. Now Svetlana has just thrown that all out of whack by calmly dumping him having gotten what she wanted out of the "relationship" and casually moving on. It doesn't feel nice when the shoe is on the other foot.   God I love Svetlana. Before he can express his anger however, Branca returns. Walking through the door, she stares in surprise at what is obviously a post-sex scene between the engaged Svetlana and her client's nephew. For once Svetlana's calm face disappears, as she knows this could be the cause of a whole other problem for her after all. She tells Branca she wasn't expecting her back so soon, while Tony grumpily makes his exit saying he'll see Junior later. Furio sits alone at home listening to Italian pop music, struggling to find some sense of belonging SOMEWHERE. Finally he gets up and moves into the kitchen. Simultaneously, Tony stands in his kitchen in the darkened home, calling out to Carmela who is nowhere to be seen. He finds a note on the counter saying she is staying at the Charles Hotel tonight, and AJ is spending the night at Patrick's. She has left Rigatoni for him to heat up, and ends the note with an,"I love you" for the husband who just casually cheated on her with a SECOND women only a short while ago. While Furio prepares his own meal at home, preparing the pasta himself, creating a meal from scratch, Tony struggles to even figure out how to use the microwave to heat up the Rigatoni Carmela made for him. He waits for it to heat and then settles down at the table with a glass of milk, eating from the bowl alone. Furio does the same in his own small dining room with the meal he cooked for himself and a glass of his uncle's wine. Two sides of the same coin, two men alone in their own homes missing the woman one longs for and the other takes for granted until she's not there. Another man alone is Paulie, who returns the now doctored painting of Pie-O-My to his wall. Tony is now a general in Revolutionary Army uniform, standing proudly by his horse, his face changed just enough to not QUITE be Tony. But as Paulie tries to watch a game of baseball, that penetrating gaze continues to haunt him. He turns again to stare, then looks back, but the gaze of "Tony" never falters, staring into the soul of the man who knows he did wrong by talking to Johnny Sack. The painting isn't the honor or trophy he wanted it to be, it's a reminder of his own guilt, and as long as he feels that, that penetrating stare is never going to go away.  Season 4: For All Debts Public and Private | No Show | Christopher | The Weight | Pie-O-My | Everybody Hurts | Watching Too Much Television | Mergers and Acquisitions | Whoever Did This | The Strong, Silent Type | Calling All Cars | Eloise | Whitecaps Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Aug 20, 2019 09:18
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When I came in to open one morning, there you were with your head half in the toilet. Your hair was in the toilet water. Disgusting.
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Aug 20, 2019 13:44
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Jerusalem posted:While Furio prepares his own meal at home, preparing the pasta himself, creating a meal from scratch, Tony struggles to even figure out how to use the microwave to heat up the Rigatoni Carmela made for him. He waits for it to heat and then settles down at the table with a glass of milk, eating from the bowl alone. Furio does the same in his own small dining room with the meal he cooked for himself and a glass of his uncle's wine. Two sides of the same coin, two men alone in their own homes missing the woman one longs for and the other takes for granted until she's not there. This is such a great one-two punch. The wordless yet obvious contrast of Furio- a self-contained man, beautiful and complex, and most of all capable- and Tony- completely beholden to a wife he disrespects and is completely useless without. And then loving Paulie, with his goddamn stolen retouched painting and the goddamn Tony Soprano "lawn jockey" makes me lose my poo poo with laughter after the serious previous scene. Until I started reading people's interpretations of the show I didn't get the impression that Paulie was unhappy with the final product. He did keep it after all, and spoke highly of the new intended meaning he personally gave to it.
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Aug 20, 2019 23:53
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"She must have crawled under there for warmth" is the most cringe worthy and one of the most on point pieces of dialogue in the whole show. Spoken like a true junkie.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:03
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BiggerBoat posted:"She must have crawled under there for warmth" is the most cringe worthy and one of the most on point pieces of dialogue in the whole show. Spoken like a true junkie. it really is so perfect
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Aug 21, 2019 01:01
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Its up there with AJs confused response of "the bricks" as to why the Italian church was still standing as one of the best lines in the show.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:13
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Michael Imperioli does a great job being simultaneously a useless, rock-bottom sack of poo poo desperate to get high and yet also somehow remains arrogant and high-handed with everybody.COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Until I started reading people's interpretations of the show I didn't get the impression that Paulie was unhappy with the final product. He did keep it after all, and spoke highly of the new intended meaning he personally gave to it. I'm of the opinion that once he figured out Johnny was just using him/Carmine didn't have a loving clue he even existed, he doubled down like a true believer in embracing Tony once again as his fearless leader, at which point the painting would have actually become a valued piece in his house. It's just that at the moment, his own guilt is causing him to feel troubled by that endless gaze from "Tony".
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Aug 21, 2019 02:33
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What's interesting is that the junkie that takes Christopher home is wearing Richie's jacket. Also love that the first thing out of Silvio's mouth after Christopher calls his own mother a whore is 'son of a bitch!'
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Aug 21, 2019 09:03
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Aug 21, 2019 09:39
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Jesus Christ I shouldn't find that so funny but I do.Vichan posted:Also love that the first thing out of Silvio's mouth after Christopher calls his own mother a whore is 'son of a bitch!' Haha, that's perfect.
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Aug 21, 2019 12:22
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These episodes can be tough to watch at times because you see all the opportunities Adriana has to diverge from this path and you just want it to go a different way this time but of course it always goes the same way.
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Aug 21, 2019 14:56
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I wish I could see the happier alternate versions of a show from time to time. Maybe this time I watch, Adriana will escape from Christopher into witness protection. Walt takes the money from Grey Matter and works on rebuilding his family. Lem escapes to Mexico and sends the Strike Team pictures of himself living a happy new life.
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Aug 21, 2019 15:33
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