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Milhist posts go here. Siivola's discord is here: https://discord.gg/sT375kR Don't be a dick, and especially don't post about non-milhist-related politics in order to be a dick. Thread turns over every 500 pages. admin note: Ensign Expendable has agreed to be an IK for this thread. Listen to him. Rule:  don't discuss modern politics or thinly veiled proxies of modern politics
Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Aug 22, 2020 |
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Aug 22, 2019 03:41
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HEY GUNS posted:Milhist posts go here. Making me actually find the thread like some kind of Medieval serf. Do I want to know about how you train war elephants, or will it just make me very, very sad? I'm assuming step one is "abuse the gently caress out of an elephant".
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Aug 22, 2019 03:45
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previous threads: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3297799 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3585027 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3785167 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3872282
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Aug 22, 2019 03:47
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To quote Lord Fisher, O.M.G.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:48
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HEY GUNS posted:and especially don't post about non-milhist-related politics in order to be a dick. This rule remains in force, indeed.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:53
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Xiahou Dun posted:Making me actually find the thread like some kind of Medieval serf. Iirc they didn't train them so much as coax them to the front, get them drunk as poo poo, and then get the gently caress out of the way.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:57
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FAUXTON posted:Iirc they didn't train them so much as coax them to the front, get them drunk as poo poo, and then get the gently caress out of the way.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:Making me actually find the thread like some kind of Medieval serf.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:59
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Nessus posted:I believe it was pretty much the same training used in typical taming of labor elephants along with being able to handle being around fire and shouting people and Romans. It seems that in some cases the elephants were taught to use flails attached to their tusks to great effect, in addition to being willing to trample Romans. They still train elephants for labor in southeast Asia, and I imagine the methods have not changed drastically. Yeah step one of that is to basically break the elephant's will and abuse the poo poo out of it. Which is not cool cause, you know, elephants are super smart. I retract the question.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:05
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The question is if elephantry could have broken through the pike wall.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:07
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What were Qin era armies like? I am familiar with Greek phalanxes and several Roman legion evolutions but I know nothing about early Chinese armies.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:08
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Xiahou Dun posted:Yeah step one of that is to basically break the elephant's will and abuse the poo poo out of it. Which is not cool cause, you know, elephants are super smart. They're apparently very emotionally intelligent too. I went on a (photos only!) safari and the guide said that elephants basically think of humans like puppies, and if they ever kill a person by mistake (or, I think, self defense? I don't remember), they go mad with grief and have to be put down. For some reason I haven't double checked that hosed up thought to see how much of it was just hammed up for the tourists (and I suppose you can't assume that all elephants everywhere are the same, and have been for thousands of years) but nevertheless, yeah, I don't think I want to know what goes into breaking an elephant down to the point where it's willing to kill people on command 
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Aug 22, 2019 04:18
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Koramei posted:previous threads: god I can't believe I've been reading these threads for eight loving years e: RIP Admiral Snackbar
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Aug 22, 2019 04:19
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gently caress this thread title.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:20
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LLSix posted:What were Qin era armies like? I am familiar with Greek phalanxes and several Roman legion evolutions but I know nothing about early Chinese armies. Have you played Dynasty Warriors?
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Aug 22, 2019 04:22
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FAUXTON posted:Iirc they didn't train them so much as coax them to the front, get them drunk as poo poo, and then get the gently caress out of the way. It would actually be quite hard to get an elephant drunk! As I recently learned, if you had 7% ABV alcohol (like a strong beer or weak wine) it would take about 7.1 gallons to get an elephant drunk. Presumably they wouldn't consume much hard liquor.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:26
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Today I received a review copy of C.J. Chivers' book about Americans in combat from the publishers and I do not understand why because I have never published a book review in my life nor do I have a blog of any kind.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:38
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Today I received a review copy of C.J. Chivers' book about Americans in combat from the publishers and I do not understand why because I have never published a book review in my life nor do I have a blog of any kind. Clearly the answer is to get hella drunk and review it for the thread.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:47
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Today I received a review copy of C.J. Chivers' book about Americans in combat from the publishers and I do not understand why because I have never published a book review in my life nor do I have a blog of any kind.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:48
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What are some moments of genius generalship and why were they so smart? I've seen older sources cite Manstein's retreats on the eastern front and Lee at Chancellorville but never really seen them elaborated on.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:51
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Nessus posted:The question is if elephantry could have broken through the pike wall. are we talkin' about, like, elephant-sized pikes?
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Aug 22, 2019 04:56
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I can't believe we've done five threads now.
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Aug 22, 2019 04:59
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Tank destroyers still rule
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Aug 22, 2019 05:09
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Ensign Expendable posted:Tank destroyers still rule Fuckin' love Hellcats
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Aug 22, 2019 05:13
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Jaguars! posted:What are some moments of genius generalship and why were they so smart? I've seen older sources cite Manstein's retreats on the eastern front and Lee at Chancellorville but never really seen them elaborated on. would you attack that ground, after he's been camped there all summer entrenching? Not to mention that managing to not lose after getting attacked by a force he didn't know was there at Luetzen is at least not terrible, but a couple of misconceptions led him to that point why was this good? * pick good subordinates, know how to work with them * operationally offensive, tactically defensive * you might be an emotional weirdo but if your enemy comes out of his entrenchments and demands you give battle, you don't have to say yes * logistics 👏 wins 👏 campaigns 👏 HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 05:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Fuckin' love Hellcats I was so happy the day I found out there's not only a Hellcat plane and a Hellcat tank, but also a Hellcat boat (PT-109).
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Aug 22, 2019 05:29
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Hellcat is a good name.
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Aug 22, 2019 05:48
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FAUXTON posted:Iirc they didn't train them so much as coax them to the front, get them drunk as poo poo, and then get the gently caress out of the way. this tactic does not have a great track record quote:As with fighting men, Southeast Asians sometimes gave alcohol or tonic herbs to their elephant mounts, presumably to make them fearless in battle. It is unclear from the available sources just how successful this measure was in the field. The Burmese chronicles record an attack by Shans on the town of Sagaing in the midfourteenth century in which the defenders gave an elephant a fermented drink and then sent it out of the gates to wreak havoc among their besiegers. The Shans ‘fired’ and ‘pierced’ the elephant (the weapons used are not clearly indicated) and the drunken elephant wheeled around and then laid waste to the town instead, forcing the defenders to flee 89
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Aug 22, 2019 05:54
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I wonder how many times the Romans set a hog on fire and it turned around instead of running at the enemy
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Aug 22, 2019 06:23
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quote:I am seriously informed by a Spanish gentleman who resided for many years in Mexico and was an officer in Maximilian's army, that while the wolves would feed upon the dead bodies of the French that lay all night upon the battlefield, they never touched the bodies of the Mexicans, because the flesh was completely impregnated with chile. Which, if true, may be thought to show that wolves do not object to a diet seasoned with garlic. https://books.google.com/books?id=WwwTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Aug 22, 2019 06:49
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Quoting from the last thread:Acebuckeye13 posted:Harry Turtledove's Timeline 191 books have something roughly akin to that, where the independent Confederacy invades the North and stalls out in a Stalingrad-like fight through Pittsburgh. Also they're nazis and Abraham Lincoln founded the socialist party. 
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Aug 22, 2019 07:47
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Hellcat is a good name. Hell yeah it is. Avenger and Corsair and Warhawk are good names too, whoever was in charge of naming 1940s-era American planes did a very good job at it
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Aug 22, 2019 08:09
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ninjahedgehog posted:Hell yeah it is. Avenger and Corsair and Warhawk are good names too, whoever was in charge of naming 1940s-era American planes did a very good job at it Meanwhile in the UK the Wildcat became the Martlet, the Hellcat became the Gannet, the Avenger became the Tarpon, the Vindicator became the Chesapeake, the Havoc became the Boston and the Warhawk became the Kittyhawk. We did good names, but we didn't do them for Americans.
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Aug 22, 2019 08:21
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FrangibleCover posted:Meanwhile in the UK the Wildcat became the Martlet, the Hellcat became the Gannet, the Avenger became the Tarpon, the Vindicator became the Chesapeake, the Havoc became the Boston and the Warhawk became the Kittyhawk.
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Aug 22, 2019 08:26
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Platystemon posted:https://books.google.com/books?id=WwwTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175#v=onepage&q&f=false did you quote that last thread or was it somewhere else? Becuase I've definitely seen it within the last 2 days or so
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Aug 22, 2019 09:02
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Jaguars! posted:What are some moments of genius generalship and why were they so smart? I've seen older sources cite Manstein's retreats on the eastern front and Lee at Chancellorville but never really seen them elaborated on. (oversimplified) this works because: 1. Since he chose the time and place of a battle, it meant that the fight started on his terms 2. The other French field marshals are all extremely competent and take advantage of opportunities as they are made available 3. Napoleon has some luck on his side, a morning fog happens to last just long enough that it covers the attack on the Allied center, but not so long that it prevents the French from communicating with each other. 4. The Allies press the attack instead of playing it more cautiously, out of the false belief that Napoleon's position is much weaker than it actually is.
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Aug 22, 2019 09:05
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Milo and POTUS posted:did you quote that last thread or was it somewhere else? Becuase I've definitely seen it within the last 2 days or so I was doing research on chiles for for the Roman/ancient thread, because someone asked about them there after bad history popped up in C‐SPAM (which has its own ancient history thread now). That quotation, while amusing, isn’t Roman or ancient. It is milhist‐relevant but I didn’t want to load the last page of that thread and lose my place in the backlog. So I posted it PYF’s Historical Fun Facts thread. Then this thread rebooted so I figured I might as well post it here.
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Aug 22, 2019 09:12
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FrangibleCover posted:Meanwhile in the UK the Wildcat became the Martlet, the Hellcat became the Gannet, the Avenger became the Tarpon, the Vindicator became the Chesapeake, the Havoc became the Boston and the Warhawk became the Kittyhawk. HEY GUNS posted:kittyhawk is a nice tip of the hat to american aviation, thank you Curtiss originally just called the P-40 the Model 81 Hawk - all their single-seat fighters since the early 20s had used the Hawk name. The P-36 was the Model 75 Hawk. In RAF service the Hawk 75 became the Mohawk and the Hawk 81 (equivalent to the P-40B and P-40C) became the Tomahawk, both of which are excellent war-like punning names. The Brits preemptively ordered several hundred of Curtiss' proposed replacement for the Hawk 81, the Hawk 86 (or XP-46 in USAAF-speak) which was smaller and more heavily-armed and armoured reflecting combat experience with the P-36 and P-40 against the Bf109 early in the war. The RAF allocated the name Kittyhawk to the new model. Unfortunately the Hawk 86 proved to be no improvement over the Hawk 81/P-40/Tomahawk, mostly due to the added weight of the guns (two .50s and eight .30s) and armour plate combined with ongoing issues with getting the Allison engine to put out decent power at the high altitudes found in European air combat without resorting to a bulky, expensive, unreliable and scarce turbocharger. Instead Curtiss adapted some of the aerodynamic improvements from the XP-46 into the P-40 airframe, changed the reduction gear on the Allison engine to a spur drive so it wouldn't lunch itself the moment it saw more than 1200hp and slapped six .50s in the wings to create the Hawk 87. This was taken up by the RAF and the USAAF. The former used the Kittyhawk name as intended for the all-new replacement while the latter knew it as the P-40E. Curtiss, partly to cover up their flub with the XP-46 and partly because the Hawk 87 was the first Hawk model to be used by the USA in combat named it the Warhawk in early 1942 for promotional purposes. The name stuck, came to refer to the entire P-40 family as a whole and by 1944 the RAF had given up with the Kittyhawk name and just called the final models the Warhawk, just as the navy stopped calling their American fighters Martlets and Gannets and so on.
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Aug 22, 2019 10:10
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FrangibleCover posted:Meanwhile in the UK the Wildcat became the Martlet, the Hellcat became the Gannet, the Avenger became the Tarpon, the Vindicator became the Chesapeake, the Havoc became the Boston and the Warhawk became the Kittyhawk. Good lord those are indeed not great names (except Kittyhawk, that's okay). Was it just one jerk on some procurement board being like "okay I got a couple obscure birds, a fish, and *throws fistful of darts at a map of the Atlantic coast of the US* these places" or was this a committee thing?
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Aug 22, 2019 10:19
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FAUXTON posted:Good lord those are indeed not great names (except Kittyhawk, that's okay). It was to make the Lend-Lease aircraft fit the official naming scheme. Fighters had generally aggressive/macho names but would be named by the manufacturer. So the Curtiss needed a name, and the Air Ministry came up with Tomahawk as a play on the manufacturer's own model name. Purpose-built naval fighters were named after seabirds (real or mythical) - Skua, Roc, Martlet Gannet. Navalised versions of land fighters used the normal name with 'Sea' in front - Sea Gladiator, Sea Hurricane etc. Torpedo bombers were named after game fish- Swordfish, Albacore, Barracuda, Tarpon. Land-based bombers were named after British towns (Lancaster, Stirling, Halifax) and it was decided to name American types after similarly mid-tier US cities (Boston, Baltimore, Chesapeake (?)).
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Aug 22, 2019 11:09
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