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Craptacular! posted:They used to be a defend your base / defend your push thing, but now you see them being used for team fights in the middle. Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like teams consequently aren’t buying as much in items now for mid-game teamfight buybacks. yeah it owns, what's the problem? Reality Sinner posted:It's Craptacular much like Tiny, never pass up a free volley
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:46 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 12:04 |
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Craptacular! posted:They used to be a defend your base / defend your push thing, but now you see them being used for team fights in the middle. Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like teams consequently aren’t buying as much in items now for mid-game teamfight buybacks. You stated something different about the game, but why do you consider that a bad thing? Mid-fight buybacks make fights more exciting and add more of a consequence for the next death, making the game more exciting and opening new opportunities.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:46 |
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IcePhoenix posted:they seem fine to me? Buyback Dota has been pretty lovely not only this TI but last as well. I don't understand how they haven't been nerfed hard in the entire year between TIs, they are probably the dumbest thing in the entire game right now. You shouldn't be able to completely feed an enemy team that has no buybacks, then just win the game because your team does. This happens so many times. edit: a good change would be that your travels go on CD when you buyback.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:46 |
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Nahaz dropping the F-bomb in defense of SA Dota
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:46 |
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The dream... the dream was beautiful Thanks for the fun and the laughs Infamous.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:47 |
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wow that was rude
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:47 |
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Incoherence posted:Nahaz dropping the F-bomb in defense of SA Dota Tonight, Nahaz rules.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:48 |
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BabyRyoga posted:You shouldn't be able to completely feed an enemy team that has no buybacks, then just win the game because your team does. This happens so many times. The big teamfight heroes are getting picked so much right now that having a way to negate the wombo-combo draft feels like it's even more important. That last game had a Void, Enigma, Tide, and Doom.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:49 |
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Are they playing vg/secret today?
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:49 |
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BabyRyoga posted:Buyback Dota has been pretty lovely not only this TI but last as well. I don't understand how they haven't been nerfed hard in the entire year between TIs, they are probably the dumbest thing in the entire game right now. sounds like the team with no buybacks needs to git gud and not feed after they force out the other team using theirs
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:50 |
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Reality Sinner posted:Are they playing vg/secret today? That's tomorrow, just liquid/eg left today
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:50 |
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Super Rad posted:That's tomorrow, just liquid/eg left today AND the ARDM All-Star game
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:51 |
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Cabbit posted:Nahaz rules. https://clips.twitch.tv/TacitToughEchidnaTF2John
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:53 |
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BabyRyoga posted:You shouldn't be able to completely feed an enemy team that has no buybacks, then just win the game because your team does. This happens so many times.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:53 |
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Incoherence posted:Nah. If you're doing the midgame-buyback thing, you're floating gold that could be items, and if your buyback gambit fails, you're losing even harder. I'm more talking about late game scenarios where the game is closed out by a team with buyback advantage taking a team fight they know they will lose on the enemy team's side of the map, but just buying back into it over a team that doesn't have buybacks to outlast and win. It just doesn't feel right.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:54 |
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BabyRyoga posted:I'm more talking about late game scenarios where the game is closed out by a team with buyback advantage taking a team fight they know they will lose on the enemy team's side of the map, but just buying back into it over a team that doesn't have buybacks to outlast and win. It just doesn't feel right. sounds like the team with buybacks outplayed the team without and deserved to win
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:56 |
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oh drat they made a video about the GL guy who made the chinese recap comics. those were great
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:57 |
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lmao the hobby of a single man
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:58 |
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IcePhoenix posted:sounds like the team with buybacks outplayed the team without and deserved to win They very specifically don't outplay the enemy team, lol. That's why the whole mechanic feels weird to me. You are rewarding sloppy play because a mechanic of the game that had been nerfed and nerfed for so long of the game's history suddenly got buffed, and you win a battle of attrition rather than directly outplaying your opponent.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:59 |
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IncendiaC posted:oh drat they made a video about the GL guy who made the chinese recap comics. those were great Yeah this is cool
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 08:59 |
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BabyRyoga posted:They very specifically don't outplay the enemy team, lol. They have buybacks and their opponents don't, and won because of it. They outplayed them. If their opponents had buybacks then they wouldn't have lost.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:01 |
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The weirdest thing about buybacks is that this is basically exactly how the system used to be around TI3/4(?) and everyone thought it was bullshit that one team would buy items and the losing team would just mass buyback into a lost fight and turn it around and get more out of the fight than they lost. This was the Spectre patch that mostly got this nerfed into the ground and made you unable to earn gold almost at all in a short period after a buyback. They've slowly been reverting this so now it's around back to how it used to be, where you almost don't want to be ahead because then your buybacks are way more expensive and if the losing team just mass buybacks a fight into you they'll come out of it with tons of EXP and even possibly more gold than they started with
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:02 |
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:The weirdest thing about buybacks is that this is basically exactly how the system used to be around TI3/4(?) and everyone thought it was bullshit that one team would buy items and the losing team would just mass buyback into a lost fight and turn it around and get more out of the fight than they lost. This was the Spectre patch that mostly got this nerfed into the ground and made you unable to earn gold almost at all in a short period after a buyback. They've slowly been reverting this so now it's around back to how it used to be, where you almost don't want to be ahead because then your buybacks are way more expensive and if the losing team just mass buybacks a fight into you they'll come out of it with tons of EXP and even possibly more gold than they started with This too. From a spectator viewpoint, it's fun to have "buyback bullshit" in play because it makes for exciting, swingy games, but any buff to comeback mechanics ultimately cheapens the game as whole in the long run. I'd rather see mistakes punished than sloppy play rewarded. Both come out of buybacks, but more so the latter.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:07 |
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Superrodan posted:You stated something different about the game, but why do you consider that a bad thing? Mid-fight buybacks make fights more exciting and add more of a consequence for the next death, making the game more exciting and opening new opportunities. From a spectator perspective it’s really irritating to see DPS poured into someone and then they pop right back up. In my case, I watched Infamous focus everything on Tiny only for him to buy back immediately. There is a normal mechanic for that sort of thing, which is the Aegis, and it has it’s own risks. The trade off of buyback as a cheap aegis is that teams are six slotted less and less often. That said, someone was right when they said “it’s Craptacular.” I call for balance changes when things I don’t like happen to teams I want to win.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:07 |
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BabyRyoga posted:This too. Teams don't mass-buyback into fights they're already winning because it's unnecessary resource usage unless, say, your building hitter dies and can extract a lot more value by buying back after the fight. Incoherence fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Aug 23, 2019 |
# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:10 |
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I maintain that not letting people buy back during the first ~40% of their death timer would fix most of the problems with buyback.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:12 |
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IcePhoenix posted:They have buybacks and their opponents don't, and won because of it. They outplayed them. If their opponents had buybacks then they wouldn't have lost. From another perspective, if you have the money for buybacks it's because you farmed the money for buybacks, and if you farmed the money for buybacks it's because you have the map control or the build or the skill to farm for the buyback. You're acting like comeback gold is something out of nothing, but that's not quite true.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:13 |
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i think the problem if there is one is that it feels like the buyback is way more valuable than another item
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:13 |
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Incoherence posted:It's not really a "comeback mechanic" per se. It's a resource, just like cooldowns and gold and experience, and it's a resource you can actually forego by spending all your gold ahead of the fight (which comes with its own potential rewards). If, in this situation, both teams have buyback, then the fight can swing back the original direction as both teams buy back. The comeback mechanic part of it isn't the buyback, it's the extra gold and xp you gain from being in a losing position and getting kills.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:15 |
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BabyRyoga posted:The comeback mechanic part of it isn't the buyback, it's the extra gold and xp you gain from being in a losing position and getting kills. Yeah but that's what makes Dota so cool, you don't just win by virtue of being ahead, you have to then turn your gold advantage into kills and objectives. It's the whole game. It's why "objective-based gaming" is a thing. If you want a game where the rich get richer, start a Monopoly league.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:21 |
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If buybacks have been "bad" this TI and the previous TI then my conclusion is that bad buyback mechanics result in amazing games of dota like seriously, the games in TI8 and TI9 have been incredible
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:23 |
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Tinker
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:28 |
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TheRat posted:Tinker great post/name combo
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:30 |
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Zyla posted:i think the problem if there is one is that it feels like the buyback is way more valuable than another item Buying an item usually isn't a massive gamble unless it's a Rapier If you buyback and the enemy team disengages, if you buyback but can't get to the fight quickly enough, if you buyback into a fight and then get picked off afterwards etc.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:37 |
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ugh i've heard a lot of chat about "BM" and it's baffling beastmaster? brewmaster? broodmother? no, every time it's used it doesn't involve those heroes comedy option, blademail, superseding acronyms based on real heroes and even then when chat spams BM it usually doesn't involve the item even worse, does it have to do with bowel movements
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:44 |
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bad manners, doing something that disrespects their opponent.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:46 |
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Cinara posted:bad manners, doing something that disrespects their opponent. how how is that both the most middle-school and least-obvious choice. i love dota 2
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:47 |
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ElNarez posted:From another perspective, if you have the money for buybacks it's because you farmed the money for buybacks, and if you farmed the money for buybacks it's because you have the map control or the build or the skill to farm for the buyback. You're acting like comeback gold is something out of nothing, but that's not quite true. You say this is from another perspective but I can't figure out how it's not just straight up agreeing with me. e: maybe you quoted the wrong post because I never mentioned comeback gold? i say swears online posted:how it's actually the most obvious choice you're just not used to it IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Aug 23, 2019 |
# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:49 |
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i'm surprised one can follow esports without knowing what BM means for so long
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:50 |
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# ? Apr 24, 2024 12:04 |
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It doesn't originate from Dota2 at all.
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# ? Aug 23, 2019 09:51 |