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Reality Sinner posted:Bsj is real bad at dota but good at streaming. He speaks with confidence but I never hear anyone saying the same poo poo he says, so i assume it's all bs. Bsj is 7.5k lmao
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Aug 26, 2019 23:54
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Reality Sinner posted:Synderen talks about dotaplus win percentage too much It's a good meme
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Aug 26, 2019 23:55
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I dunno whenever I watch bsj stream, he dies once, go back to lane stupidly, dies again, yells at his supports then afks in jungle. 7.5k sure but he'll never make it as a pro.
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Aug 26, 2019 23:56
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Man rewatching the NiP vs OG game 1, the first game they did the wisp carry strat, it's SO obvious they weren't practiced with the strat and they were really struggling to find the rhythm early on in the match. You'd never know it from the later matches tho, it's impressive how fast they were to take it from janky test attempt to dominant strat DURING A TOURNAMENT
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Aug 26, 2019 23:57
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Reality Sinner posted:I dunno whenever I watch bsj stream, he dies once, go back to lane stupidly, dies again, yells at his supports then afks in jungle. 7.5k sure but he'll never make it as a pro. half of the NA 7k mmr mid/safelane spammers do this e: I agree, they don't know how to make the best of a bad situation and it'll always keep them back
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Aug 26, 2019 23:57
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just finished the vods and we got flopson^2 which is a far bigger far more powerful topson than anyone could have ever imagined holy moly
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Aug 27, 2019 00:03
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I don't ever feel like any of the caster analysis is good but then that's true of any sports coverage so I def value good hype casting over supposed 'knowledge' unless they get the dota equivalent of Tony Romo in there at some point
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Aug 27, 2019 00:04
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The casters put in a ton of work. It’s not easy at all. And they’re working a ton of hours as well
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Aug 27, 2019 00:07
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The casters put in a ton of work. It’s not easy at all. And they’re working a ton of hours as well Never said it was easy, just that the analysis is bad (and no wonder, really: the strategies you see, especially in TI, are barely understood by the highest level of fulltime pros). Doesn't matter how much work you put in if the task is basically impossible.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:10
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The casters put in a ton of work. It’s not easy at all. And they’re working a ton of hours as well I'm completely aware of that, just noting that despite that work, their commentary is significantly less useful to me, a person who only has limited understanding of why anyone does anything in DotA, than this here thread.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:11
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are we just forgetting that synderen is 8k
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Aug 27, 2019 00:11
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The casters put in a ton of work. It’s not easy at all. And they’re working a ton of hours as well Please do not defend JPJ
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Aug 27, 2019 00:11
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sugar free jazz posted:are we just forgetting that synderen is 8k at being a mush mouthed dumbass
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Aug 27, 2019 00:12
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Vando posted:Never said it was easy, just that the analysis is bad (and no wonder, really: the strategies you see, especially in TI, are barely understood by the highest level of fulltime pros). Doesn't matter how much work you put in if the task is basically impossible. That is a good point, I guess. Pretty much no one is qualified to commentate from both a vocal and knowledge standpoint.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:12
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sugar free jazz posted:are we just forgetting that synderen is 8k Even this doesn't really matter because what it demonstrates above all is mechanical skill, game awareness, resource management type attributes. The actual tactical metagame is entirely separate to that. It works in the same way that top sports players don't necessarily make great coaches: they may be good at playing their own role, but understanding what that role is for and how to decide what that role actually is? It's an entirely different skill.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:16
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This thread is absolutely not better than the casters at understanding drafts and so on we're all just spewing random poo poo and hoping we're close to right lmao
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Aug 27, 2019 00:18
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:at being a mush mouthed dumbass "synderen" is NOT how you spell "tobi"
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Aug 27, 2019 00:19
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Sampatrick posted:This thread is absolutely not better than the casters at understanding drafts and so on we're all just spewing random poo poo and hoping we're close to right lmao Note that I didn't say better at actually understanding high level anything, just better at explaining medium level poo poo to beginners.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:21
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Still disappointed early fighting hero URSA was never picked in this meta You blink on the alchemist, you give him the slap slap, ,Gg
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Aug 27, 2019 00:21
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JollyPubJerk posted:what? Blitz is a notorious storm spammer who only ever learned the game in that impression. Purge is just an encyclopedia, not someone who ever understood top tier dota. Tobi+Synderen was easily the best duo this year, if not every year. Blitz has more insight into the Eastern scenes due to playing over there than almost anyone else that's fluent enough in English to be on a panel. I think people like him are also pretty important because he frequently admits when he's unsure about something. An encyclopedia is a good rear end source of knowledge, so thanks for agreeing??? Tobi sucks rear end and constantly interrupts Syn to hype up a player walking towards a rune.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:22
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silvergoose posted:Note that I didn't say better at actually understanding high level anything, just better at explaining medium level poo poo to beginners. Yeah and it was also recognised why that is right away, so it's not like we're even slamming the casters here: violent sex idiot posted:its a lot easier to sound smart when you are typing minutes or hours or days after the fact than when you are live on camera
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Aug 27, 2019 00:23
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Having to cast stuff you’ve never seen before is really hard while also trying to be entertaining and excited. I used to hate on analysts or casters but I’ve never thought about it from their perspective. Everyone that wants to claim they would be a better a better caster or analyst I would just say: then prove it! Go for it! It’s really loving hard. I know some up and coming casting talent personally and they’re trying really hard and it’s still tough for them and they get some brutal criticism online.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:27
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ursa could've used the ti winnings for the cubs 
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Aug 27, 2019 00:27
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Sampatrick posted:This thread is absolutely not better than the casters at understanding drafts and so on we're all just spewing random poo poo and hoping we're close to right lmao Most of the casters/commentators are so entrenched in DotA that they don't understand anything if it's not currently meta, which is when I'd say this thread throwing poo poo at the wall is definitely more informative. Just look at the first IO carry game. Everyone on the panel was just going "uhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhh" and even in the later Io games couldn't remark on anything except it being strong and the time honored bad advice "they need to kill wisp first".
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Aug 27, 2019 00:28
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Vando posted:Even this doesn't really matter because what it demonstrates above all is mechanical skill, game awareness, resource management type attributes. The actual tactical metagame is entirely separate to that. It works in the same way that top sports players don't necessarily make great coaches: they may be good at playing their own role, but understanding what that role is for and how to decide what that role actually is? It's an entirely different skill. i mean hes immortal 100ish hes pubbing with pros all day and was in the ti9 closed qualifier for europe so i mean................
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Aug 27, 2019 00:29
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Nasgate posted:Most of the casters/commentators are so entrenched in DotA that they don't understand anything if it's not currently meta, which is when I'd say this thread throwing poo poo at the wall is definitely more informative. Just look at the first IO carry game. Everyone on the panel was just going "uhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhh" and even in the later Io games couldn't remark on anything except it being strong and the time honored bad advice "they need to kill wisp first". I mean, if you put Kuroky on the panel do you think he'd speak more intelligently about carry wisp the first time it saw play at TI?
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Aug 27, 2019 00:31
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sugar free jazz posted:i mean hes immortal 100ish hes pubbing with pros all day and was in the ti9 closed qualifier for europe so i mean................ And Rob Gronkowski won 3 super bowls, it doesn't mean he's able to identify and summarise every tactical approach at the drop of a hat, does it?
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Aug 27, 2019 00:32
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Sampatrick posted:I mean, if you put Kuroky on the panel do you think he'd speak more intelligently about carry wisp the first time it saw play at TI? He let OG pick it so not necessarily even the last time imo
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Aug 27, 2019 00:34
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Something called Destiny Cup 2 starts tomorrow. Get hype for this huge 14,000$ sea tournament.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:39
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Vando posted:Even this doesn't really matter because what it demonstrates above all is mechanical skill, game awareness, resource management type attributes. The actual tactical metagame is entirely separate to that. It works in the same way that top sports players don't necessarily make great coaches: they may be good at playing their own role, but understanding what that role is for and how to decide what that role actually is? It's an entirely different skill. lol, synderen has sub-pro mechanical skill and makes up for it with the rest like you describe. This is just some blind hate. To be a good caster you need to talk with confidence. You can admit you aren't sure of something, but you at least need to guess to keep viewers engaged. It's a skill, I've done it before and it is exhausting on the throat for the hours these guys do it, and Synderen is one of the better color guys out there. These guys are quoting dotaplus because there's no way they can do research on 20 games that happened while they were simultaneously casting on the same day, day after day. There isn't a secondary color guy whispering in their ears even more stats to display. Guys like swindlemelonzz can barely get a sentence out. Half of the players know the motions, but struggle putting them into words. Not really surprising when they sit in front of computers all day every day of their life. Best insight you can get is what you hear about from scrims. Teams try to keep that info really tight, and if you aren't seeing them, you have no idea what the meta is. Otherwise, yes, they are guessing. Or they're playing ranked pubs at a level where they've seen some poo poo and it starts leaking into pro games.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:00
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A big problem with analyzing dota is that the people who are good at it are either: a) playing b) coaching Add in the fact that you can win millions of dollars for 'figuring out' the current/tournament/ti meta, and that thousands of others are analyzing it, there's a vacuum of analysis available to the public. This means that you either listen to paid commentators (who themselves are't good enough to play or coach), or you listen to randoms on the internet. This also helps explain why so many panelists are ex-pros as the prestige rather than knowledge is what makes them 'right'.. Like at the moment, OG's game style seems completely opaque. They just seem straight up better than everyone else. You can point to the carry Io or the diffusal Gyrocopter, or the way they prioritize farming up Ana or how Jerax and Topson rotate, or the wide hero picks but these don't reveal BIG DADDY's overarching philosophy on the game. I'm almost certain that others from pro teams have an idea of whats going on, but they sure as gently caress aren't going to talk publically about it. Also does anyone knows where i can get detailed statistics from old TIs? Particularly hero pick, ban and win rates. I want to see if how a hero is designed makes them inherently stronger than others. Like surely there's a reason why enchantress is always op, or why tiny, gyro, IO, chen, alch etc are so predominant at TI despite constant reworks and nerfs.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:02
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hairypanis posted:A big problem with analyzing dota is that the people who are good at it are either: I dunno. There's a class of players who just spam poo poo and copy. And there's a class of players who innovate. You just needs guys who do the latter, and too many of them have normal lives because their brains are big enough to do something other than DotA sperging.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:06
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DotA is a complex game and it's completely insane to expect analysts to actually understand everything about every draft
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Aug 27, 2019 01:08
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Sampatrick posted:I mean, if you put Kuroky on the panel do you think he'd speak more intelligently about carry wisp the first time it saw play at TI? I meant it less as a diss and more that the thread is 100 monkeys on typewriters.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:10
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Nasgate posted:I meant it less as a diss and more that the thread is 100 monkeys on typewriters. Everyone in DotA is a monkey on a typewriter. Game is hard.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:11
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Reality Sinner posted:Still disappointed early fighting hero URSA was never picked in this meta Or blink on 10 minute Io...it's almost as if teams didn't even try since the figured carry Io was a joke?
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Aug 27, 2019 01:16
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I liked all the commentators this TI, it was a very well made show 
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Aug 27, 2019 01:16
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If OG's carry wisp strat lost them the first game of OG vs NIP, would they have still pursued the idea further? Like "lol that sucked, let's go with a more uniform and practiced plan next time." instead of "Hey we lost, but I think there's something very big here still..." and continued to draft it?
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Aug 27, 2019 01:17
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Or blink on 10 minute Io...it's almost as if teams didn't even try since the figured carry Io was a joke? Blink in and watch Io tether away is not a great plan.
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Aug 27, 2019 01:26
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Sampatrick posted:Everyone in DotA is a monkey on a typewriter. Game is hard. except OG
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Aug 27, 2019 01:26
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