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I have always thought that Sith didn't make up all of the dark side force users. Like all Sith are dark, but not all dark are sith. Like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are catholic. But I have no idea what gave me this idea, it's not in the movies and if it's in the video games I can't remember which one, did I just make that up for myself?
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Aug 28, 2019 21:36
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garycoleisgod posted:I have always thought that Sith didn't make up all of the dark side force users. Like all Sith are dark, but not all dark are sith. Like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are catholic. I have the same idea and I think it's to reconcile the idea of dark Jedi we had from the EU with the "rule of two" they came up with much later that doesn't quite mesh with what we knew from before.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:38
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High Lord Elbow posted:I readily except faster than light travel but someone please explain the aerodynamic concepts that make that possible. https://youtu.be/5sOvNYYH6Cs
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Aug 28, 2019 21:41
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garycoleisgod posted:I have always thought that Sith didn't make up all of the dark side force users. Like all Sith are dark, but not all dark are sith. Like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are catholic.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:51
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Is that still canon? That at the time "Sith" was like the dominant culture of some planets eventually taken over by dark side practitioners and not necessarily "people who follow the dark side?"garycoleisgod posted:I have always thought that Sith didn't make up all of the dark side force users. Like all Sith are dark, but not all dark are sith. Like all Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are catholic. You got the idea because all Catholics are born with original Sith.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:54
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The animated series incorporated that stuff from the former Extended Universe. Sith Lords are a specific tradition of Dark Side practitioners (the name comes from a specific civilization they subjugated that worshipped them as gods), though it's not made clear what exactly makes them different from others outside of a sense that they're generally more powerful. Maybe they hoard all the best secrets for themselves, to be transmitted from master to apprentice only. Or maybe you're a Sith because you've run out of Dark Side users to contest that claim, and there's no greater meaning behind that. Snoke and and the Knights of Ren officially aren't Sith because the Sith disappeared in Episode VI, but in practice there doesn't seem to be much difference because the concept of what makes a Sith is extremely vague in the first place. Then the video games side of the EU had https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Sith, which is just  .
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Aug 28, 2019 21:54
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Neo Rasa posted:Is that still canon? That at the time "Sith" was like the dominant culture of some planets eventually taken over by dark side practitioners and not necessarily "people who follow the dark side?" Paul Saltines' baptism pool is probably super hosed up. Like, full of Pepto Bismol or something.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:00
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In the EU the Sith were a species that had some pretty strong dark side users. Then they gave their name to the organisation, so you could have some Sith that were also Sith species and others who weren't. Kind of like how the New Zealand All Blacks have white people doing the haka
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Aug 28, 2019 22:27
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As much as I like Palpatine and like Return of the Jedi, I don't understand how Palpatine envisioned things turning out when he brought Luke up to the throne room and took off his handcuffs. Seems like the only possible outcomes are: -Vader kills Luke defending Palpatine -Luke kills Vader and Palpatine -Luke kills Vader and Palpatine kills Luke -Luke and Vader team up and kill Palpatine Palpatine doesn't really ever make a pitch for Luke joining his side, he just seems to assume that it's a given if Luke kills Vader, like Luke is contractually obligated to go for work for him in that scenario. The best explanation is that Palpatine just gets off on this sort of thing and just wants to see what happens more than he really cares about living. General Dog fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 22:44
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He's gone through 3 apprentices at that point. I think he just wants a new not broken one. It's not like his pitch to Anakin makes a whole lot of sense once Anakin force chokes the wife he joined the sith to save.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:47
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It's like the Necromongers in The Chronicles of Riddick where Riddick became Lord Marshal after killing the current one.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:48
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If you get mad enough even once you're in the club for life, no backsies.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:48
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General Dog posted:As much as I like Palpatine and like Return of the Jedi, I don't understand how Palpatine envisioned things turning out when he brought Luke up to the throne room and took off his handcuffs. Seems like the only possible outcomes are: Uncle Palps was playing 4D chess.
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Aug 28, 2019 22:55
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C-Bangin' it 
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General Dog posted:As much as I like Palpatine and like Return of the Jedi, I don't understand how Palpatine envisioned things turning out when he brought Luke up to the throne room and took off his handcuffs. Seems like the only possible outcomes are: Nothing at the beginning of that movie made sense so why should the ending.
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Aug 28, 2019 23:10
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General Dog posted:Palpatine doesn't really ever make a pitch for Luke joining his side, he just seems to assume that it's a given if Luke kills Vader, like Luke is contractually obligated to go for work for him in that scenario.
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Aug 28, 2019 23:26
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General Dog posted:Palpatine doesn't really ever make a pitch for Luke joining his side, he just seems to assume that it's a given if Luke kills Vader, like Luke is contractually obligated to go for work for him in that scenario. Killing Vader is an admission that Sheev is right. Also Sheev is pretty much literally Space Satan.
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Aug 29, 2019 00:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Killing Vader is an admission that Sheev is right. Also Sheev is pretty much literally Space Satan. Exactly. Sheev's whole scheme here is to get a fight started (which he succeeds at doing) and Luke will either kill Vader therefore tearing down all Luke's beliefs/philosophies and leaving him with nowhere else to go but the accepting arms of Poppa Palpatine, or Vader kills Luke which means Luke wasn't worthy anyway. The reason he's not worried about Luke killing him is that well, overconfidence is his weakness, he knows he can easily dab on Luke in a fight. But he's so focused on Lukehe doesn't pay attention to Vader.
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Aug 29, 2019 00:57
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General Dog posted:As much as I like Palpatine and like Return of the Jedi, I don't understand how Palpatine envisioned things turning out when he brought Luke up to the throne room and took off his handcuffs. Seems like the only possible outcomes are: I think the context of the scene is an early indication that Palpatine is just a huge bullshitter. He does taunt Luke with the idea of him turning to the Dark Side by striking him down, which Luke does try to do, but it's really not earnest. He's just prodding at Luke's own insecurities. He knows that Vader is going to defend him. He's using language that is reminiscent of Obi-Wan's "if you strike me down" language from the first film, but there's no actual follow through. All the Emperor cares about is maintaining power. Luke ultimately wins partially because he reminds Vader of his humanity, but on a personal level, by just not engaging in Palpatine's bullshit.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:23
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But there’s no reason Luke would ever join Palpatine. Even if he fell to the dark side, Palpatine doesn’t have anything he wants. If fully surrenders to anger and aggression, that means he’s suddenly going to make peace with his mortal enemy? Anakin is different- 1) he thinks Palpatine has information that he needs to save Padme and 2) once he acts in his defense and gets Mace Windu killed, he knows that he can’t go back to the Jedi, and that he’s going to need the protection of Palpatine and the Empire or else the Jedi will kill him. General Dog fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 01:34
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General Dog posted:But there’s no reason Luke would ever join Palpatine. Even if he fell to the dark side, Palpatine doesn’t have anything he wants. If fully surrenders to anger and aggression, that means he’s suddenly going to make peace with his mortal enemy? Like I said, the offer for Luke to join the Dark Side is super disingenuous. Palpatine claims the way to join the Dark Side is to strike him down, but he clearly never intends to let Luke kill him. The plan is always for Vader to defend him and pit them against each other.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:59
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Monster Mash vs. Junkyard Trash
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Aug 29, 2019 01:59
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Palpatine knows the secret to Karate Killings, and Luke needs to know!
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Aug 29, 2019 02:01
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General Dog posted:But there’s no reason Luke would ever join Palpatine. Even if he fell to the dark side, Palpatine doesn’t have anything he wants. If fully surrenders to anger and aggression, that means he’s suddenly going to make peace with his mortal enemy? Sure he does, Power. If Luke gives in to the Dark Side he still can't beat the Emperor, so after perhaps an initial Force Lightning spanking he'll have to do as Vader did and bide his time trying to learn enough and get powerful enough. The whole thing with the Sith is they don't trust or value other people, even the other Sith. Remember that putting your faith in others is "a weakness" so Palpatine wasn't under some assumption Luke would not be plotting against him.
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Aug 29, 2019 02:06
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General Dog posted:But there’s no reason Luke would ever join Palpatine. Not that that really holds up in ROTJ, since he was mostly just biding his time until they all got blown up.
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Aug 29, 2019 02:54
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Jerkface posted:Disney and co were actually precient about their politics but they chose not to explain any of it in the movies. Except antifa are a bunch of LARPers grasping at authentic experiences by contriving low stakes battles against equally meaning-starved and marginalized losers, far away from actual halls of power or the real forces of totalitarianism. But that is way too interesting a premise for the sequels to the OT, and especially the PT, so instead we got basically the last few books of Harry Potter. Kylo is totally a Proud Boy, though.
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Aug 29, 2019 04:09
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Dark Rey is actually Rey's long-lost sister and she uses a double lightsaber (and Rey uses a staff) because their father was Darth Maul. We never saw what happened to his lower body. Just as his upper body was kept alive by rage, the rest of him was sustained by the horniness suppressed by being connected to his Dark-Side-fueled heart.
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Aug 29, 2019 05:02
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Isn't there a scene, where Luke asks Vader to come with him and Vader simply answers that Luke "does not know the power of the dark side, I MUST obey my master". So clearly there is something in the way dark side (or sith) work that makes you your master's puppet once you tap into that power. I've always taken it as that the both sides of the force have kinda their own agenda for the universe and Jedis simply listen light side through meditation and Dark side users are much more corrupt and direct in using force for their own selfish gain, but then it's the old drug using analogy where the drug is actually controlling you.
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Aug 29, 2019 06:03
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Will Of The Wisp posted:Isn't there a scene, where Luke asks Vader to come with him and Vader simply answers that Luke "does not know the power of the dark side, I MUST obey my master". So clearly there is something in the way dark side (or sith) work that makes you your master's puppet once you tap into that power. Vader is a hollow shell of a person after Luke refused to sign on with him. Alternatively, 'Dude, I'm wearing an iron lung and he shoots lightning bolts.'
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Aug 29, 2019 06:12
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah, I agree, that's why I'm saying it's more about Vader than it is about Luke. I don't think Palpatine really cares about Luke. It's more about getting Vader in line either by forcing him to murder his son or by letting Luke kill him. And if Luke by some chance ends up joining up then bonus. I think Palpatine knew what he was doing. The Rebels just flew into a trap, the Death Star's shield generator was still running because the team sent to destroy it got caught (I mean, who could have expected a Carebear army out of loving nowhere???). Luke said he would not fight, but in an act of desperation (some might say "fear") tried to kill him. Rather than join his son in the assassination attempt, Vader blocked the killing blow. That led to Luke fighting Vader, a fight that Luke was losing until he gave into anger. Palpatine just needed Luke to give into hate by killing Vader, and his fall to the Dark Side would be complete. When Luke declined, Palpatine blasted him with Force lightning because Palps ain't got time for this poo poo, he's got a Rebellion to crush.
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Aug 29, 2019 06:12
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Every outcome that includes Palpatine surviving is good for Sheev. Best case is he turns Luke and keeps Vader alive. But if Luke kills Vader or Vader kills Luke, that’s fine with him, he’s assured loyalty from Vader and Luke killing his own father would seal his turn to the dark side, and he trades up to a younger, able-bodied apprentice. If Luke beats Vader and won’t turn, Sheev just kills Luke and goes on the lookout for a new apprentice, he’s very experienced with that anyway. It’s a bummer but not a huge loss for him. And like others said, dude just likes having a good time and watching people squirm. It’s all good fun for him.
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Aug 29, 2019 06:15
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Vader is a hollow shell of a person after Luke refused to sign on with him. Alternatively, 'Dude, I'm wearing an iron lung and he shoots lightning bolts.' Yeah, it's this. That's even before considering all the connotations added with the prequel trilogy adds.
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Aug 29, 2019 06:19
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Mike N Eich posted:Every outcome that includes Palpatine surviving is good for Sheev. Best case is he turns Luke and keeps Vader alive. But if Luke kills Vader or Vader kills Luke, that’s fine with him, he’s assured loyalty from Vader and Luke killing his own father would seal his turn to the dark side, and he trades up to a younger, able-bodied apprentice. 
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Aug 29, 2019 06:22
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Palpatine is literally the greatest thing in all of Star Wars and one of the best villains of all time, it'll be a waste to not bring him back physically in this final toilet flush of a film.
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Aug 29, 2019 06:59
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YaketySass posted:
Captain Splendid posted:In the EU the Sith were a species that had some pretty strong dark side users. Then they gave their name to the organisation, so you could have some Sith that were also Sith species and others who weren't. Going from the in game lore, Sith: The Species were all Force users to varying degrees and didn't classify Force usage into Light/Dark which was more of a Jedi interpretation. Culturally they were the standard warrior stereotype with honor and duty, saw nothing wrong with embracing emotions with Force usage. It wasn't until the exiled Dark Jedi stumbled across them, conquered them and went all mind control rape/breeding/brainwashing on the Sith people, then stole the name for Sith: The Order. The "Light Sith" in game are just throwbacks to before the Dark Jedi entered the picture. Some Jedi scholars did eventually catch on that Sith: The Species and Sith: The Order are technically two separate things but the majority Jedi opinion is they're all murder maniacs which makes playing a "Light Sith" hysterical since when you're being all reasonable around Jedi they completely lose their poo poo and leave the Order because they can't wrap thier minds around a honorable Red Sith. Overall it's an interesting perspective, but the Franchise and fanboys being what they are, we all know it's only going to be something in game than seeing anywhere else.
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Aug 29, 2019 08:29
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Mike N Eich posted:Every outcome that includes Palpatine surviving is good for Sheev. Best case is he turns Luke and keeps Vader alive. But if Luke kills Vader or Vader kills Luke, that’s fine with him, he’s assured loyalty from Vader and Luke killing his own father would seal his turn to the dark side, and he trades up to a younger, able-bodied apprentice. I think that's something that Last Jedi gets really well.
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Aug 29, 2019 12:54
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ben solo is the best and most interesting character in the sequel trilogy
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Aug 29, 2019 16:32
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Fitzy Fitz posted:ben solo is the best and most interesting character in the sequel trilogy I agree, it makes me wish I knew anything about him or what the hell he wants.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:04
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Is it ever explained why if a Jedi ever gets angry enough to kick a hole in the wall that he or she suddenly becomes willing to commit any and all murders?
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Aug 29, 2019 17:06
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is it ever explained why if a Jedi ever gets angry enough to kick a hole in the wall that he or she suddenly becomes willing to commit any and all murders? That’s just Anakin and I think it’s pretty well established that he’s not very good at being a Jedi.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:08
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Nitrousoxide posted:Is it ever explained why if a Jedi ever gets angry enough to kick a hole in the wall that he or she suddenly becomes willing to commit any and all murders? The Jedi believe that is true because they are a crazy cult that uses that doctrine to control it's members and keep face in the political world*, and the Sheev's an advocate of it because purity bullshit makes it easier for him to turn Jedi. * That is, the larger part of Jedi emotional temperance is to discourage Jedi from rocking the boat by trying to use their powers for political ends, not just in the "take over the galaxy" sense but also in the "free the slaves on Tatooine" sense. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 17:16
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