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Noam Chomsky?
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Aug 29, 2019 01:09
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site posted:who is this subtweeting Yeah it's weird cause 2 tweets down she's accusing them of stealing their devotees/dates work.. Who knows.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:40
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site posted:who is this subtweeting Ben Garrison?
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Aug 29, 2019 01:49
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SoftNum posted:Yeah it's weird cause 2 tweets down she's accusing them of stealing their devotees/dates work.. yeah the only couples who both work in comics that i know are fraction/ksd walt/louise simonson mike/laura allred jimmy palmiotti/amanda connor so i was curious
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Aug 29, 2019 01:49
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It reads as weirdly petty to me and unfairly like, putting the onus of rhetorical blame on the "fangirl" in a way? Like if we take out the bit about the romantic relationship-- which like, if it's a consensual relationship between adults who cares-- her complaint seems to boil down to "some artist draws too much like her favorite artist." Edit: I think there are a lot of potentially very unhealthy power balances that are often built into relationships with either a significant age gap or from an existing dynamic of one-sided or asymmetrical authority (like dating a fan, as in this case), but if the biggest problem she can point to is the similarity in art style, I don't know, if they're both adults and they're both happy it just feels like none of anyone's business. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 01:56
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i would think the power dynamic involved would be the issue? e: your edit beat my post
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Aug 29, 2019 02:00
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site posted:i would think the power dynamic involved would be the issue? Yeah but I think power dynamics aren't uniform. Should an employer date an employee? Almost certainly no. Should a teacher date a student? Absolutely loving not. I think "fan" is such a broad term though. If I found out, like, John Byrne was dating a 19 year old who liked his stuff I'd be alarmed, but I don't know. I'd guess that most of the people I've dated chose to approach me on the basis of my work, and/or knew it certainly wasn't because I was especially hot or charming, and I don't think any of those relationships-- which never had more than a 1-2 year age gap-- felt especially predatory in either direction? Like, I'm a huge fan and advocate of my wife's work, and (I hope!) she's still a big fan of mine. We were acquaintances when we first started dating, and she'd submitted a really brilliant essay to the student journal I was editing. At the time we only rewarded a cash prize for fiction and poetry, and I fought hard to get a third prize introduced for non-fiction-- something I'd been working on for awhile but which I really felt was important in light of how strong this essay was. The award didn't get pushed through but at the next party we were both at I decided to tell her powerful I found her work and after talking about her writing for awhile she asked if I'd like to get a coffee or something. We didn't start dating for another six months or so after that but that was the real start of our friendship. People generally treat this like a pretty cute story, not a horrific one, but like, there were power imbalances there, on both sides in a way since she was definitely a much more confident and accomplished artist than I was. I still think she's a brilliant writer and photographer and painter, I don't think intense (hopefully mutual) admiration is or should be unusual in a relationship, and I never like "fangirl" thrown around dismissively, so I don't know, I think Fowler is just being too vague to conclude anything.
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Aug 29, 2019 02:13
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while i understand you're general point, from tess' tweets my impression that this was not simply one professional enjoying another professional (of roughly the some age??)'s work, it was a case where an artist (and i will freely admit to extrapolating here) was more or less preying on a much younger fan of their work https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1166840388033732608 https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1166852024236797952 https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1166842672557936640 https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1166843437204721664 but, i will totally grant that as there is nothing more specific there's no way to know what the story is for sure here site fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 02:21
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The last one reminded me of Paul Dini and his wife who looks like Zatana, but that seems like a stretch.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:22
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site posted:yeah the only couples who both work in comics that i know are Stjepan and Linda Šejić? I think they're pretty close in age, though.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:38
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Wasn't Kricfalusi "mentoring" some teenager who had a very similar art style to his?
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Aug 29, 2019 03:44
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Scaramouche posted:Wasn't Kricfalusi "mentoring" some teenager who had a very similar art style to his? MULTIPLE.
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Aug 29, 2019 04:40
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“How about the girl the artist is dating has very similar same face/body shape in his artwork?” That’s not creepy at all, what the heck? Someone draws people they think are beautiful and is also dating a person they think is beautiful. OK. This is all seeming real bitter.
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Aug 29, 2019 04:41
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Scaramouche posted:Wasn't Kricfalusi "mentoring" some teenager who had a very similar art style to his? Yeah that dude is an outright predator, no grey area.
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Aug 29, 2019 04:52
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Wendell posted:“How about the girl the artist is dating has very similar same face/body shape in his artwork?” Oh sure, at best its just subtle and ultimately inconsequential preferences. But read the 2nd part of that tweet https://twitter.com/TessFowler/status/1166843437204721664 If something is a coinflip between "basically innocuous" and "terrifying psychosexual implications" a bit of healthy skepticism is merited
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Aug 29, 2019 04:52
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Edmund Lava posted:The last one reminded me of Paul Dini and his wife who looks like Zatana, but that seems like a stretch. I thought the same thing, but regardless of the circumstances of how and why they got together, they’re an extremely nice couple, and have three(?) well behaved kids.
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Aug 29, 2019 08:11
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Open Marriage Night posted:I thought the same thing, but regardless of the circumstances of how and why they got together, they’re an extremely nice couple, and have three(?) well behaved kids. I don't remember well but wasn't his wife an actual rl magician who would put out shows and stuff?
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Aug 29, 2019 19:41
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Misty Lee is great. I don't know if she still does shows but if you get the chance to see her take it. 'I have a clear fetish for this character... OH LOOK I FOUND HER IRL' is kinda weird but I don't think there's any apparent power imbalance in their relationship.
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Aug 29, 2019 19:50
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There's industry terribleness and then there's gossipy tattle and this seems a lot more like the latter.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:01
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Yeah, I feel like Tess is referring to something she’s observed in general, not any specific big name.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:16
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I'm beginning to worry this thread is starting the slow descent you saw with grognards.txt and the like where stuff that isn't actually that bad gets posted and the threshold for what's worth talking about just gets lower and lower until we're eating each other alive (Which to be clear is not me saying "close down the thread" it's really good to have a place to talk about/make people aware of this poo poo just also we need to think about what we're posting.) Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 23:28
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i would be more worried about it if there wasnt literally 20 pages of posts about a guy who doesnt even work in comics in this thread
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Aug 29, 2019 23:37
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site posted:i would be more worried about it if there wasnt literally 20 pages of posts about a guy who doesnt even work in comics in this thread this is also A Good Point
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Aug 29, 2019 23:38
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site posted:i would be more worried about it if there wasnt literally 20 pages of posts about a guy who doesnt even work in comics in this thread It's true, I don't think Ethan technically does work in comics anymore.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:02
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site posted:i would be more worried about it if there wasnt literally 20 pages of posts about a guy who doesnt even work in comics in this thread Dude appeared at comic conventions and did stuff with Marvel characters. He's as much connected to the industry as a lot of the people discussed here. "Industry Terribleness" isn't cleanly delineated because a lot of people involved with nerd stuff are not connected to only a single part of it, and especially when you're discussing issues with convention culture then yeah it turns out the dude who has been an omnipresent weirdo at comic conventions for decades is probably going to come up when his legal case is imploding. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:31
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the other people discussed here literally write, draw, or publish comics tho. being at a venue that has comics is uhhh not the same, and is like some 6 degrees of kevin bacon poo poo. but we've already had that discussion and i realize people just want someone to go ha ha at
site fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:37
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site posted:the other people discussed here literally write, draw, or publish comics tho. being at a venue that has comics is uhhh not the same, and is like some 6 degrees of kevin bacon poo poo. but we've already had that discussion and i realize people just want someone to go ha ha at Thank you for being lovely about it and assuming people don't actually care. Kind of funny how you feel this way now when site posted:So it looks like gators are really actually trying the animegate thing now You brought the thing up yourself. If you want to pretend like the Nerd Oroborus isn't a thing and that people working in the industry are not part of the industry that is fine, but don't get weird and hypocritical about it and accuse people of just looking for something to laugh at. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:43
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well thank you for extrapolating to the point where i dont care, but irl i would just prefer that be talked about in a sub more suited to the actual topic, like say adtrw. but go off again though quote:that people working in the industry are not part of the industry that is fine this is extremely reaching the boundary of being real in any sense. being at a con that has people who sell comcis does not mean a person in the va anime industry works in comics. yall are reaching and i dont feel bad for saying so site fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:47
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site posted:well thank you for extrapolating to the point where i dont care, but really i would just prefer that be talked about in a sub more suited to the actual topic, like say adtrw. but go off So why bring it up in this thread yourself? If you're wondering why I think this is important it is because this is probably the single highest profile case of con creepers getting exposed at con creepers in recent memories, and that is super relevant to the industry at large and the massive problem conventions have behind the scenes in general. Trying to go "Well, he wasn't at the convention for an (american) comic book and thus don't discuss it" is really goddamn weird and seems to be trying to imply that it isn't actually part of comic's problems. I think the lovely convention culture and what is born of it is a pretty huge issue and while Vic's Insane Legal Stupidity is amusing it isn't as relevant as a giant neon example of the kind of poo poo even minorly popular figures get away with at conventions. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:48
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ImpAtom posted:So why bring it up in this thread yourself? yeah uh now i just feel light youre trying to gaslight me into something here.... e: if you think its a huge issue in comics why dont you talk about comics creepers and talk about vic in adtrw site fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:52
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I was glad to read the Vic stuff here because there was no way I was going to set foot in ADTRW to see if they were discussing it
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Aug 30, 2019 00:55
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site posted:yeah uh now i just feel light youre trying to gaslight me into something here.... No, I'm just annoyed that you're pulling the "Well, you're WRONG for discussing this part of the industry, go put it somewhere I won't see it" poo poo only when it is something you personally don't want to see. You've shifted from discussing the industry to "ONLY very specific things count and otherwise they should be in another thread!" Especially when you're saying someone who worked in the anime industry suddenly doesn't count as a voice actor (even though they work on things besides anime including voicing Marvel characters.)
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Aug 30, 2019 00:56
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I think there's a certain line that probably shouldn't be crossed and that's delving into the relationships of consenting adults just because the relationship might seem weird from your perspective. Unless there's some sense of actual wrongdoing going on then at that point you're just being nosy and judgmental. This thread isn't just a place for you all to just dump on people you find weird or don't agree with. It's for bringing people to light that are causing actual harm to others either by their actions or by boosting the actions of others. X-O fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 00:58
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let me phrase it another way, since this apparently SO IMPORTANT before every con in the last year and half since this vic lawsuit has gone on, on twitter i have seen women and enbies share info on how to stay safe, whether its comic con, anime con, or the bumfuck con that jeremy whitley and tamra bonvillain attended in nc, and even people preparing for lovely fans at FLAMECON of all places but i never saw anyone in this thread talking about wow its hosed up that these people feel so in danger. but vic attended cons totally adjacent to comics and now everyone has to have an opinion and if you object well its time to get mad
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Aug 30, 2019 01:04
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site posted:let me phrase it another way, since this apparently SO IMPORTANT That is on you and it's pretty lovely of you to assume because you didn't see people discussing it that they don't care about it. Beyond that, if you're asking why Vic is getting the most attention, it is twofold: One, this is a case of a popular and *long term* harasser finally getting brought to light. This didn't suddenly come out of the blue. I had friends being warned about Vic being a creeper when I was a teenager and that was long enough ago it shouldn't be new news. This has been literal decades of serial harassment finally getting brought to light and with it is coming a forced attention to lovely behavior that has been written off as 'just part of the con experience' for years. Is it fair? gently caress no. The fact that this was an *open secret* for decades should have been an issue, in the same loving way that Toy Story having a literal casting couch joke in it should have been horrifying, not amusing. BUt it's coming to light and it took a specific combination of events to bring it around. (It wouldn't even have come to a head if a loving Dragonball movie hadn't done unexpectedly well.) This also isn't the only place I discuss this. (Hell, this isn't even the only place I discuss this on SA! You can go look back through the Dragonball thread in ADTRW if you want examples.) A lot of the time there isn't a lot to discuss here but I have a lot of interest in this for a variety of reasons, the most selfish of which is that I have a teenage sister who loves to attend cons and god drat would I be happier if she didn't have to admit to me she felt genuinely uncomfortable sometimes and that she refuses to try cosplaying because she's afraid of people being creeps. So tell me I don't care about it and I'll get heated. The second is, yes, his legal case is a clowncar of absurdity and that was inevitably going to draw attention. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 01:10
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ImpAtom posted:That is on you and it's pretty lovely of you to assume because you didn't see people discussing it that they don't care about it show me your posts about them and i will proceed to read the read of this post
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Aug 30, 2019 01:13
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Plus, it should be noted, IStandWithVic and Comicsgate are directly connected. The overlap between the two is very evident, the same people have skin in the game for both "movements", and the same sort of attempts at SLAPP lawsuits are going on. It's hard to not discuss it when there are so many players who are involved in both, and the sheer amount of people who are aware of both.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:22
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Scaramouche posted:I was glad to read the Vic stuff here because there was no way I was going to set foot in ADTRW to see if they were discussing it Yeah.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:24
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Kurui Reiten posted:Plus, it should be noted, IStandWithVic and Comicsgate are directly connected. The overlap between the two is very evident, the same people have skin in the game for both "movements", and the same sort of attempts at SLAPP lawsuits are going on. thats true, however if you look at the follower list between fox news, richard spencer, chris cantwell, ben shapiro, and vic, the overlap is much the same but we arent gonna talk about the alt-right writ large in here are we. again degrees of separation. all these fucks are on the same side. its just that you want to talk about them here because wow anime forum, so suddenly these people are allowed as convo here, but not those people, even if they are the same people. or can we we just talk about all nazis here now, since the venn diagram is a circle? if rules are gonna be broken on a whim it would be nice if there was some definition on which rules are broken for what reasons and why i guess site fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 01:27
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I think it's useful to dip into mentions of Vic and those other guys occasionally because it's useful for the discussion at large but yeah I still agree that an extended discussion about Vic is a bit out if place in this thread.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:35
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